No email on W-7

[Ken Blake]

Hi, Ken.


"NSP"? The first poster to use that abbreviation here was "Valorie", a year
or two ago. This "RH Breener" is beginning to remind me more and more of
that highly-successful troll. :>(

Having seen no denial from him/her/it since you posted this, and seen
several other posts from him/her/it since then, it would appear that
you are exactly right!

 

[Char Jackson]

You say a very common abbreviation. I'll take your its being what you
say it say it is, but it can't be that common if I've never seen or
heard it before.

I hope it's not Valorie, but perhaps that's so.

I've always been active in the support newsgroups for my respective
NSPs over the past ~25 years, so 'NSP' comes up frequently for me.
People are always comparing one NSP to another, whether it's about
pricing, spam policies, plan features, etc.

 

[...winston]

People continue to get it wrong due to years of OE and Windows Mail
mentality that MSFT should provide and meet everyone's intent. That ceased
to exist in 2006.

WLM is designed for and intended for use with Hotmail type accounts
(live.com, hotmail.com, msn.com and any other same domain country unique
derivative - hotmail.uk.co, live.se, msn.ca etc.) and with a Live ID signon.
In addition to integrating the use of the email client across the other Live
applications (Messenger, Photo Gallery/Movie Maker, Writer).

Does it meet everyone's intent ? Nope.
Was it intended to do so ? Never

For Hotmail and Messenger users who want an integrated application and full
folder replication (of the Hotmail type account folder/messages it is the
only application (except for the Hotmail Connector in Outlook) that provides
that same feature.

As far as anything else (pop3, imap, nntp) while it may have the ability to
support but those features the focus has always been on the half billion
Hotmail and Messenger users not the OE/WM population.

Another possibility, while never mentioned, but easily conceivable (looking
at the big picture) and understanding the above focus (Live ID
preferred/recommended usage)...a significant purpose of 'Live' may have been
to collect telemetric data on the integrated applications 'cloud usage'. Who
better than the half billion willing Messenger and Hotmail users ! (i.e.
XP/OE-Vista/WM no longer important and a known diminishing population).

With Win8 the focus is an extension of that same mentality (the only real
difference is the rebranding to the Microsoft name [Microsoft Hotmail,
Microsoft SkyDrive)
- Microsoft Account (i.e. its still a Live ID) and required to use all the
Win8 included apps and features.

Fyi...if using Messenger on Vista or Win7 the optional update (QFE3) for WLE
2011 became mandatory effective June 14th.
- i.e. to use Messenger which requires a Live ID sign-on WLE 2011 QFE3 is
now necessary.
- that mandatory update applies to anyone using Vista or Win7 and *any* pre
WLE 2011 QFE3 version (including WLE 2009).

--
....winston
msft mvp mail


"Ken Blake" wrote in message

Hi, I recently bought a new HP PC (64bit) with W-7. It came with

Note that it's your HP PC that came with Windows Live Mail, not
Windows 7. Windows Live Mail is a free program that HP (and many other
OEMs) bundle with their Windows 7 computers.

a really
bad email software called WindowsLiveMail that will not work for me.

I'm entirely with you. I think it's about the worst choice there is.

How can I get a copy of
WindowsMail or even OutlookExpress on W-7? I don't or want an email
program
that has all the bells and whistles I don't need or care about.

Is there some way I can get WindowsMail to work on W-7?

Yes. Read here:
http://www.mydigitallife.info/download-windows-mail-from-vista-for-use-in-windows-7/

But you can *not* run Outlook Express in Windows 7.

Here's my standard post on this subject:

Windows 7 comes with *no* e-mail or newsgroup program. Although many
people object to this, I think it's a step in the right direction,
since it leaves everyone more free to choose whatever program(s) he
likes best. There are many choices available, both from Microsoft and
from third-parties. Some are free and some are for sale. Microsoft has
Windows Live Mail (which is essentially also a newer version of
Outlook Express/Windows Mail, with still another new name) available
for download for free and Outlook (a different program from outlook
express) available for sale, either alone or as part of Microsoft
Office.

If your computer came with Windows 7 preinstalled, it may have also
come with Windows Live Mail. If so, that's not because Windows 7 came
with it, it's because your computer's manufacturer bundled it with
what he sold you.
Some people will tell you to use Windows Live Mail; others will tell
you to use Thunderbird; still others may have other recommendations.

My advice is to ignore all such recommendations. I personally use
Microsoft Outlook for e-mail and Forté Agent for newsgroups, but you
should try several and choose what *you* like best, rather than make
your decision based on what I, or anyone else, likes best (or even
what Microsoft suggests).

 

[Char Jackson]

What? Are you trying to say I can't get a car with an 8-track player?

If this is progress, I don't want any part of it!

In truth, I never owned an 8-track player. In fact I don't remember ever
even seeing one in action. No, I'm not too young - I just traveled in
underprivileged circles, I guess...

When I was about 13, I salvaged a very nice (for its time) Craig
8-track player and speakers from a wrecked car in the local junk yard.
I also salvaged a working car battery. Tapes were also easy to find in
the junk yard, although the selection was somewhat limited.

I hooked everything up in my bedroom* and it worked wonderfully to
provide music, but I had to remember to flip on the battery charger**
every couple of days or the Craig would find itself to muster the
energy to change tracks.

*Charging a car battery in a bedroom is not recommended due to the
explosive gas produced, but I didn't know that then.

**The battery charger also came from the junk yard and was not working
when I brought it home, but its repair was fairly simple.

Yes, it's true that my brothers and I spent an awful lot of our time
as kids in the city dump, but that place was full of treasure just
waiting to be rescued. It was a sad day when the county brought in a
bulldozer and covered it up.

 

[...winston]

Fyi...for you archives <g>

Effective June 14, WLE QFE3 transitioned from optional to mandatory for
Vista/Win7 users using any pre-WLE QFE3 version (including WLE 2009).

Does it mean all programs will stop functioning if not updated, not
necessarily.
- Just like in the past (e.g. WLE 2009 QFE3 was mandatory too ) the ability
to use Messenger (Live server logon required) is the primary impact.

But as we all know with Live...support for anything is the 'foreseeable
future' and does not mean 'in perpetuity'. Thus the future could very well
also bring restrictions on using any pre-QFE3 application (where Live server
logon is necessary)
- e.g. Photo e-mail, SkyDrive publishing, etc.


--
....winston
msft mvp mail


"R. C. White" wrote in message

Hi, RH.

As you probably have learned by now, Win7 comes from Microsoft with NO
mail/news client at all. HP must have added WLM to your machine. Microsoft
got tired of complaints about "bloat" in Windows Vista and prior, so they
removed several add-on features, including mail/news, from Win7. They say
that we are now free to select any mail/news client we want (Thunderbird,
Agent, or any of several others) and install it ourselves.

OE will not run on Win7. WM will not run on Win7, either, officially. But
some users have made it work with a patch that should not be too hard to
find. (I haven't looked for it because I prefer WLM to WM. I'll probably
get flamed for that.)

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2011 (Build 15.4.3555.0308) in Win7 Ultimate x64 SP1


"RH Breener" wrote in message
Hi, I recently bought a new HP PC (64bit) with W-7. It came with a really
bad email software called WindowsLiveMail that will not work for me. There
is no way to set a rule to keep large files from downloading as in
WindowsMail. I don't have unlimited Internet downloads. I can't find Send
& Recieve either. I can't find any way to show the size of downloaded mail.
I tried Thunderbird and don't care for it at all. How can I get a copy of
WindowsMail or even OutlookExpress on W-7? I don't or want an email program
that has all the bells and whistles I don't need or care about.

Is there some way I can get WindowsMail to work on W-7?

 

[Char Jackson]

I have stayed at two different Holiday Inn Expresses as recently as on a
trip in April 2012, yet you've mystified me completely with that remark.

What am I missing? BTW - you're not allowed to say a brain!

Do you own a TV? If so, do you skip the commercials?

From the Marketing section at the Wikipedia link:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiday_Inn_Express>

"Starting in 1997, Holiday Inn Express started an ad campaign called
"Stay Smart" ads that featured ordinary people achieving superior
feats, such as averting a nuclear disaster or performing like rock
stars. When asked questions whether or not they are professionals,
they reply "No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express," attributing
their skills to their stay there. These ads have received positive
reviews, and have been so successful they have crossed over into
popular culture, being features in late night comedian jokes and
political cartoons."

So, now you know.

 

[Ken Springer]

1. It makes the documentation available to everyone, including those
people who pirate the software.

In which case, they are more concerned with the pirates than with
legitimate consumers/users. :-(

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 13.0.1
Thunderbird 13.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.2.2

 

[VanguardLH]

And you first have to spend hours and hours learning what parts are needed,
what parts work with other parts, who has the best quality this, that and
the other thing. You're obviously, as are most of those on this NG, very
much into computers, way beyond email and a little surfing. The average
person wouldn't know a mother board from a stick of RAM. And while you may
be very much interested in learning all that, and putting untold hours into
it, the truth is most people are not.

Hey, that's the FUN of building your own computer. The same goes when
you buy a car. Do you just happen to think suddenly one day "I want a
new car" and then stop at the nearest car dealer to pick one up? Or did
you first do research on the cars to see which ones met your criteria,
which ones did what you wanted, checked their reliability, warranties,
and all other factors of buying and owning a new car? If you're the
type that investigates their car purchase before laying down your hard
earned cash from working those 2 jobs, did you not find it fun to do
that research to learn about the cars? Do you do absolutely no research
before buying a new television? If you are disabled with compulsive and
immediate purchase disorder then you'll end up with a lot of junk.

Even when you bought your pre-built, pre-configured computer, you didn't
do any research on it before purchasing it? Considering all the
configurations that are possible, and from the times that I've wandered
around the various major brand sites reviewing their products and vast
number of configuration possibilities, I found it easier to just make up
my own list and go get the parts to put together myself.

Personally I don't see slapping together the *hardware* for a personal
computer much more difficult than buying a BBQ grill and then having to
read the incomplete instructions on how to assemble the thing with a
thousand screws, bolts, and whatnot. Yet I do buy grills that I have to
put together. Most of them come that way. You're lucky if you can get
the store to put it together (and do it correctly) for free or at a
charge. They just sell you the box and you put it together. Well, I
want that BBQ grill so I'm willing to spend the time to put it together.
Rocket science isn't required to build the grill, nor for a personal
computer, either. There really aren't many parts inside a computer:
case, motherboard, PSU, memory sticks, video card (if onboard isn't
enough), hard disk, optical drive, and then connect the cables. Beyond
that, you are already "assembling" the other components by attaching the
keyboard, mouse, monitor, printer, etc.

There really isn't much to learn about slapping together a personal
computer. They come as components you screw down, slide into slots, and
connect with cables that don't even need instructions on where to plug
them in. I can fab a PC in an hour although it's more like 2 since I
like to be very neat and I probably like to dig into it more than
needed. The hardware is not the hard part of building PC. Its the OS,
drivers, apps, and all the conflicts and problems with the *software*.
That's probably what scares you away from building a PC. Hardware by
itself isn't that scary. As you yourself mentioned, it wasn't the
problems with the hardware that turned your "guy" off from repairing
computers. It was all the software problems and ignorant users getting
the *software* infected.

As for not having the space [to build your own], you don't have as much
space as for the seat on a chair? How about where you eat? How about
the floor? Plywood plank over your bed? A folding table? I still have
enough space where I eat and also on my desk to build a computer but I
also keep around a folding table for when I happen to need more space,
like when it's time to spread out all the papers to reconcile my bank
accounts or do my taxes. As for tools, one multi-bit screwdriver will
probably suffice.

However, this subthread is off-topic. Your problems with e-mail have
nothing to do with e-mail. I only made the point that you got WLM not
because Microsoft gave it to you, not because they bundled it with
Windows 7, but that it was HP that decided to give you WLM - plus lots
of other bloatware they include in their pre-configured platforms.

 

[Ken Blake]

I've always been active in the support newsgroups for my respective
NSPs over the past ~25 years, so 'NSP' comes up frequently for me.
People are always comparing one NSP to another, whether it's about
pricing, spam policies, plan features, etc.

You've been in newsgroups longer than I have. I started about 17-18
years ago, shortly after I get my first internet connection (on
dial-up back then). And maybe it's a matter of *which* newsgroups, but
if I've seen "NSP" before, I don't remember doing so.

Yes, I've also seen many such comparisons, but not using that
abbreviation.

 

[Ken Blake]

Do you own a TV? If so, do you skip the commercials?

From the Marketing section at the Wikipedia link:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiday_Inn_Express>

I missed the same thing Gene did. I own a TV, but I see almost no
commercials. I watch almost nothing on TV except for films (Netflix)
and an occasional Tennis match.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

When I was about 13, I salvaged a very nice (for its time) Craig
8-track player and speakers from a wrecked car in the local junk yard.
I also salvaged a working car battery. Tapes were also easy to find in
the junk yard, although the selection was somewhat limited.

I hooked everything up in my bedroom* and it worked wonderfully to
provide music, but I had to remember to flip on the battery charger**
every couple of days or the Craig would find itself to muster the
energy to change tracks.

*Charging a car battery in a bedroom is not recommended due to the
explosive gas produced, but I didn't know that then.

**The battery charger also came from the junk yard and was not working
when I brought it home, but its repair was fairly simple.

Yes, it's true that my brothers and I spent an awful lot of our time
as kids in the city dump, but that place was full of treasure just
waiting to be rescued. It was a sad day when the county brought in a
bulldozer and covered it up.

Interesting - and cool.

But be warned - that kind of experience has a significant risk of
turning a poor innocent kid into a tinkerer.

 

[Ken Blake]

Hey, that's the FUN of building your own computer.

I'll just add that although I certainly understand how that can be
fun for lots of people (and I know many such people), it's not fun for
me. Although as I've said, I've done it a couple of times, I'm not
particularly good at it, and I fear something not working and having
to troubleshoot hardware.

There really isn't much to learn about slapping together a personal
computer. They come as components you screw down, slide into slots, and
connect with cables that don't even need instructions on where to plug
them in.

Yep! As I said, "although it's easy to build a computer (it's not
much more than plugging the components together; similar to plugging
together stereo components, but with a computer they are inside the
case) ..."


But as I also said at the end of that same sentence, "... it isn't
always easy to troubleshoot any problems you have building it." And
that's the main reason I don't do it.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Two reasons I can think of:

1. It makes the documentation available to everyone, including those
people who pirate the software.

It also makes it available to people who might consider buying the
product.

It's one of my favorite ways of evaluating a potential purchase.

2. They still have to undergo the costs of writing the documentation,
if not the printing of it.

Undeniably.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Valid in *format* perhaps, but not necessarily valid in the sense of
existing. The address I use here ([email protected]) does not exist,
as far as I know.

I have been led to believe that the top-level domain "invalid" is both
valid and guaranteed not to exist.

It is indeed the preferred fake address to use. Otherwise you might
inadvertently create a real address, much to the detriment of its owner.
Again, I have been told that it has happened...

 

[Ken Blake]

Building your own isn't that difficult nowadays.

Yes, I agree--as I said above, and as I said in another reply to you
moments ago.

You're just slapping
major components together: mobo, PSU, hard drives, optical drives, slide
in memory, slide in a video card, etc.

Yep! But the troubleshooting if something doesn't work is not as easy.

While it's easy, yes, you can
have someone else do the build (i.e., contract a jobber).

Although I've rarely been able to build my own computer for cheaper than
another pre-built sold in bulk,

Right But ...

that wasn't my point. For the same
price (or a tad more), I can put BETTER qualify parts in my computer
plus I know what's in there.

Exactly. I completely agree. But my point was that you can accomplish
the same thing if you have someone else build it.

When you buy pre-built computers, you
never know what's inside. They sell by specs, not specific components
inside.

Again I agree.

That's why we cannot buy pre-builts to use in our alpha test
lab because we need to know for sure what is in each host and not just
by its specs. One model might use a mobo with a video card and another
uses a mobo with onboard video because the latter platform has onboard
video that matches the specs for the video card in the prior platform.
But that doesn't help us with imaging when we need to restore hosts but
one model requires a different image than the SAME model with different
hardware inside because of the need for different drivers. For the same
price as a pre-built, I can get better quality components or exceed
their specs (a bit more memory, larger hard disk, bigger monitor, etc).
That way, for the same money, I can have a host with greater longevity
and reliability.

And for me, for only a little more than you spend, I get the same
advantages when someone else builds it for me.

One advantage of your method of having a local jobber build your host is
that when it breaks you don't have to pay the high postal charge to ship
it to some regional repair center.

A good point! And one I hadn't thought of before.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Do you own a TV? If so, do you skip the commercials?

From the Marketing section at the Wikipedia link:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiday_Inn_Express>

"Starting in 1997, Holiday Inn Express started an ad campaign called
"Stay Smart" ads that featured ordinary people achieving superior
feats, such as averting a nuclear disaster or performing like rock
stars. When asked questions whether or not they are professionals,
they reply "No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express," attributing
their skills to their stay there. These ads have received positive
reviews, and have been so successful they have crossed over into
popular culture, being features in late night comedian jokes and
political cartoons."

So, now you know.

Thanks - indeed now I know!

I'll have to review my stays in April. Perhaps I accomplished more than
I realized. For example, lately I've seen denials that the world will
end in December this year. That might be due to something I did while at
those motels.

BTW, both stays were quite satisfactory.

 

[Ken Blake]

It also makes it available to people who might consider buying the
product.

It's one of my favorite ways of evaluating a potential purchase.

Perhaps so, but I still think it's one of the reasons it often isn't
done.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Perhaps so, but I still think it's one of the reasons it often isn't
done.

Nonetheless, I have managed to find downloadable manuals for most of the
software I've been interested in - and many of the rest had HTML help
available. And my remarks also apply to hardware items (which is why I
used terms like "product" and "purchase" above), which are harder to
pirate - no torrents

Of course, a lot of HTML help isn't much help, being, in my experience,
hard to navigate effectively.

 

[Char Jackson]

Thanks - indeed now I know!

I'll have to review my stays in April. Perhaps I accomplished more than
I realized. For example, lately I've seen denials that the world will
end in December this year. That might be due to something I did while at
those motels.

BTW, both stays were quite satisfactory.

I expect big things from you. Great accomplishments, and all that.

 

[Char Jackson]

Interesting - and cool.

But be warned - that kind of experience has a significant risk of
turning a poor innocent kid into a tinkerer.

Glad you found my life story interesting.