No email on W-7

[Bruce Hagen]

You might want to check out this site run by my colleague MVP G. Winston
Natoli.

The Field Guide - Windows Live Unplugged
http://liveunplugged.wordpress.com/category/windows-live-mail/

 

[R. C. White]

Hi, Ken.

As we all know, the real expense in supplying the "library of books" is not
in the printing, or even in posting the PDF, but in having developers and
other experts create the content of the library. That cost hasn't come down
at all, I suspect.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2011 (Build 15.4.3555.0308) in Win7 Ultimate x64 SP1


"Ken Blake" wrote in message

Makes you miss the days of when buying a computer also meant that you
were buying a library of books on how to use and program it as well.

Like all of you, I'm also unhappy about the lack of documentation
these days. But not getting that "library of books" has helped keep
the cost of software down.

 

[Dave-UK]

Hi, Ken.


"NSP"? The first poster to use that abbreviation here was "Valorie", a year
or two ago. This "RH Breener" is beginning to remind me more and more of
that highly-successful troll. :>(

RC

Good observation about the 'NSP' abbreviation, I agree with your theory about Valorie.

 

[John Williamson]

Nope. I have not yet seen or heard of a news server that required
posters to post with a valid email address.

<Shrug> I've not seen *all* news server conditions, so I'd not be
dogmatic about it, although the BT Internet news server (For one) won't
accept posts not made from an IP address in their allocated block, which
implies that you have a BT account, which gives you an automatic BT or
Yahoo e-mail address. I've never tried using an invalid from: mail
address on that server.

Note that I'm talking about posting, while you're talking about
setting up an account. Naturally, if you deal with your NSP via email
you'll need to be using a valid email account so they can reply to
you, but that's completely separate from posting.

Indeed it is.

 

[RH Breener]

I don't think it's really confusing at all. Whenever you go from one
thing to another (programs or almost anything else) you go through a
period of adjustment. It takes some time to get accustomed to the
differences, but with decent software it doesn't take very long. And
once you get accustomed to the differences, you may even prefer the
new to the old.

For example, whenever I rent a car while on vacation, it takes me a
little time to get accustomed to the differences between it and what I
own. But in a day or two, I'm comfortable with I'm driving, and often
prefer at least some of the features on the rented car.

I know what you mean. I'm about to give up on trying to get WM to work on
W7. I have to admit I'm very disappointed in that it's there, and yet MS
doesn't allow it's use, and by all the aggravation with Permissions and
TrustedInstallers and Administration popup windows. I had heard complaints
about W7 from people I know and at work, but thought they were just
bitching, exaggerating. But now I see they were right.

And what I was told to do to delete a large number of email in WLM doesn't
work. I can only delete 3 at a time and the same emails keep coming back
every time I open WLM. I've deleted the same ones now for the 3rd or 4th
time. Why do they keep downloading after being deleted? This never happened
with OE or WM. What a waste of my time messing with WLM.

 

[Tim Slattery]

Most, if not all news servers require you to have a valid e-mail address
to set up the account, and this address will appear in the "from"
portion of the headers.

Two very different things. I did have to supply an email address to
eternal september to setup an account. Once that's done, I configure
my newsreader to use that account. I can tell the newsreader whatever
I want about my email address, it will have no effect on my ability to
read or post messages.

 

[Ken Springer]

Hi, Ken.

As we all know, the real expense in supplying the "library of books" is not
in the printing, or even in posting the PDF, but in having developers and
other experts create the content of the library. That cost hasn't come down
at all, I suspect.

Hi, RC.

Agreed. But what good is *any* product to a person if you can't find
out how to use it? And unless the product is brand new, the vendor has
the previous version to start with.

You should file that documentation under the heading of good customer
relations. Would you rather have your users/customers complaining or
complementing. It's simply part of the cost of doing business.

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 13.0.1
Thunderbird 13.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.2.2

 

[John Williamson]

What attitude do you expect me to have under these circumstances? Should
I be happy and excited after all the aggravation trying to get around
these irritating time wasting unwanted safety features? None of you have
told me yet how to disable them. Can they even be disabled so the
computer can be used without constant permission popups?

Yes, and you have been told how. If you can't understand the answers or
can't follow the instructions given, then you obvoiously don't have
sufficient computer skills to do it safely.

I shouldn't be disappointed to find that even though my favorite email
program is on W-7, MS wont allow it's use?

It can be used, but is not officially supported by Microsoft. You have
been told how to enable it.

 

[Tim Slattery]

You would at least have to have an outgoing email account - no? It has to
get to the NSP somehow.

NSP = News Service Provider?

When I post a message, my newsreader contacts Eternal September's
Usenet server at the address they gave me when I set up the account.
It logs in using the password/UID they gave me. Then it passes the
message to the server and it does what it does with it. Email has
*nothing* to do with this transaction. I think there's an assumption
that your email address is in the "From" header, but it's not checked.

 

[RH Breener]

<snip>

If you are just doing Registry mods get ERUNT from
http://www.larshederer.homepage.t-online.de/erunt/

But you should learn how to do an image

Where did you learn how to do it? A friend? Website?

 

[Char Jackson]

What attitude do you expect me to have under these circumstances? Should I
be happy and excited after all the aggravation trying to get around these
irritating time wasting unwanted safety features? None of you have told me
yet how to disable them. Can they even be disabled so the computer can be
used without constant permission popups?

I shouldn't be disappointed to find that even though my favorite email
program is on W-7, MS wont allow it's use?

Tell me, what should my attitude be since I didn't have this with any of the
other PCs I've owned?

I'm not going to tell you that your attitude is right or wrong or
something in between. I'm just pointing out the obvious, which is that
your negative attitude is going to make it very difficult for you to
adapt to your new surroundings. It is what it is.

You're by no means alone in how you feel. Plenty of others have come
before you. Some have undoubtedly overcome their initial resistance to
change while others may have given up and taken up knitting. At the
other end of the spectrum, there are those who remained cheerful and
calm, using this as an opportunity to learn new things. Those people
tend to be more successful, and I mean successful in general, not just
with computers.

I'm not a shrink, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once. ;-)

 

[Char Jackson]

Good observation about the 'NSP' abbreviation, I agree with your theory about Valorie.

NSP is a very common abbreviation for News Service Provider. Think
'ISP', but for Usenet.

 

[RH Breener]

You are assuming that there are only those two choices: buy a
pre-built OEM computer or build your own.

Which is like telling an EMT or nurse to perform brain surgery... and I'm
not trying to be rude. Not everyone is technically inclined or even
interested in building a computer. Some of us working 2 jobs don't have the
time and others in small apartments don't have the space.

That is *not* correct; there

is a third choice and it's the one I prefer and use most of the time.

What I almost always do is use a local builder to build what I want,
to my specifications.

Ahhh... there you go! You're very lucky. We had a guy here about 10 year
ago who built computers for people, but he gave up with all the problems
they had with the software and hours he had to spend on the phone with them
because of viruses or some other problem, most caused by the people
themselves. No one ever took his place.

I choose all the components and he assembles

them. I've built my own several times, but I prefer having someone
else do it and paying not a whole lot of money for the service. I
prefer it because, although it's easy to build a computer (it's not
much more than plugging the components together; similar to plugging
together stereo components, but with a computer they are inside the
case), it isn't always easy to troubleshoot any problems you have
building it.

And you first have to spend hours and hours learning what parts are needed,
what parts work with other parts, who has the best quality this, that and
the other thing. You're obviously, as are most of those on this NG, very
much into computers, way beyond email and a little surfing. The average
person wouldn't know a mother board from a stick of RAM. And while you may
be very much interested in learning all that, and putting untold hours into
it, the truth is most people are not.

 

[Char Jackson]

<Shrug> I've not seen *all* news server conditions, so I'd not be
dogmatic about it, although the BT Internet news server (For one) won't
accept posts not made from an IP address in their allocated block, which
implies that you have a BT account, which gives you an automatic BT or
Yahoo e-mail address. I've never tried using an invalid from: mail
address on that server.

Having a valid email address doesn't mean you have to include it in
your posts. Use whatever you like. I certainly wouldn't post with a
valid email address these days, but I do know of 1 or 2 people who
still do, mostly out of habit.

 

[RH Breener]

I honestly don't know/remember, but since both use the TB code, I suspect
both will probably have Usenet capability. Be aware, TB does have
problems with the Usenet and doing things properly, just as OE does/did.

I've seen lots of discussion threads over time about whether having both
email and Usenet capability in one program is a good idea or not. I
suspect the only real advantage is convenience. But each individual
desires to have things work in a way that's comfortable for them, which is
good IMO. I just get frustrated with the contemporary situation where you
generally just hear about a few ubiquitous programs rather than having
easier access to viewing a larger "menu" of programs.

One thing I've learned about computer software over the years is no one
program does everything well, and often fails to do anything truly well.
If you really want it to work right, use a program designed to do that job
and little else.

Opera's email client used to do the Usenet, I used it years ago, so I
suspect it still does the Usenet.

I agree with what you say. Perhaps they should be two separate programs.

I'm giving up on WLM altogether. One email account will not work at all on
it. Another account keeps downloading the same old email from last year
that must still be on the gmail server and I can only delete three at a
time, no more. In minutes they all download again. I just don't have the
time and patience to keep deleting the same messages every time I open the
program. I haven't even tried my Usenet accounts in WLM. To use them would
allow the same old messages going back 6 months to download again and again.
It's crazy.

 

[Nil]

How did you get Permission to add the dll in that WM folder?
Unlike other versions of W, this version W7 does not allow the
owner to do as they want which I deeply resent.

Yes, it does allow you. You have to understand permissions and follow
the protocol.

There are two stages. You must take ownership, then you must grant
yourself Full Control over the file and folder.

- Right-click on MSOE.DLL.

- Select Security tab | Advanced | Owner | Edit. Change owner to you.

- make a copy of MSOE.DLL as instructed in the tutorial.

- Change owner of the Windows Mail Folder, as in above.

- Right-click on the Windows Mail folder. Choose Edit button. Add
yourself to the list of permissions, and give yourself Full Control.

- Copy the new MSOE.DLL (from the location mentioned in the tutorial)
to the folder, overwriting the old one.

- Make a shortcut on the desktop to the Windows Mail executable.


Enjoy your semi-broken-but-not-as-much-as-what-came-later email/news
client.

The End.

 

[Zaidy036]

Where did you learn how to do it? A friend? Website?

I have used Acronis True Image for years

 

[Gene Wirchenko]

As we all know, the real expense in supplying the "library of books" is not
in the printing, or even in posting the PDF, but in having developers and
other experts create the content of the library. That cost hasn't come down
at all, I suspect.

Too many programmers do not like documenting.

The official Java documentation is an example of this. Were I
grading it, it would get a D at best. Parameters to methods are not
documented by giving their names; there should be an explanation.
Example calls are extremely useful, but I do not think that I have
seen any there.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

 

[Gene Wirchenko]

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:13:28 -0700, "RH Breener"

[snip]

What about Usenet though? Does Eudora and SeaMonkey include that, or would
you need a seperate program for Usenet? I believe both are browsers only.

Eudora is an E-mail program. It is not a browser.

[snip]

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

 

[RH Breener]

Certainly. But the probability of someone exploring the alternatives
and choosing what they like best is *much* higher if it comes with no
e-mail program and they are therefore forced to make a choice

Why would MS care? It'd not costing them anything. Why force people when
the software is already on W7? I can't find sense in forcing people who are
happy with WM to try something else. Let them choose to use it or waste
hours and hours of their time trying other email software, one download at a
time.

Please note that in the sentence you quoted above, I said "more free,"
not "free."




We do *not* all use Firefox. Note the following two points:

By *WE* I meant my family. Those not using Macs.

1. An enormous number of people use IE, because they either don't know
there are alternatives or because it's much easier to just stick with
what comes with Windows rather than explore the alternatives.

2. Even among those of us who are interested in exploring the
alternatives, we don't all use Firefox. I, for example, greatly prefer
Maxthon to Firefox and that's what I use




I'm personally not a Thunderbird fan, but I think it's a *much* better
choice than Windows Live Mail. Why not use it even if you can get
Windows Live Mail to work?

After the last 48 hours I will have no choice since WLM (not WM) keeps
downloading the same old DELETED messages from the gmail server from last
year, no matter how many times I delete them. And despite what someone said,
I can't delete more than 3 at a time and there are scads of them. I wanted
to get WindowsMail, not WLM to work on W7. I can't. I'm just an average
Joe, not a computer tech. It just got too damn complicated and trying to
wade through all the Permission, Trusted Installer and Administrator BS wore
me out.