No email on W-7

[Ken Springer]

GUIs are so much more intuitive than CLIs. <cough, cough> I
never bought that argument.

Methinks the biggest problem with the "GUI is more intuitive" is what
one person finds intuitive is not intuitive to another.

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 12.0
Thunderbird 12.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.2.2

 

[Sam Hill]

Not quite.

Both of the newsreaders that are currently set up here will let me reply
to a Usenet post via e-mail.

So would mine -- if I set up an email account within its settings. I
don't, of course.

I usually don't click the wrong button

Attaboy!

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

So would mine -- if I set up an email account within its settings. I
don't, of course.


Attaboy!

Thanks for the encouragement

BTW, I don't think I set up e-mail accounts in my newsreaders. Or maybe
I did

And to be fair, I don't think either one can act as a real e-mail
program, i.e., read e-mail as well as send it. Besides, they probably
would send e-mail only by invoking the default e-mail program.

 

[Ken Springer]

I can't locate the place to make the rules, and for some reason the software
downloads old messages from the gmail server that I've seen months ago.

Hi, RH,

Two things:


First.........

I've just read through this entire thread of messages as it exists at
this moment, saw no one with any real information about your Gmail issue.

Some time back, I was helping a friend in setting up his Thunderbird
client, and we had a lot of problems getting the results we expected.
To put it mildly, we were getting pi$$ed! LOL

Turns out, Google/Gmail handles mail differently than many if not most
places. It wasn't until we really got into how you needed to configure
Gmail at Gmail's end that we finally started to see the results we wanted.

Moral of this short story? It's best if you go to Gmail and thoroughly
understand how Gmail handles POP3 and IMAP requests before placing the
blame on an email client when you don't get the results you expected.



Second.........

I'm not here to denigrate, malign, or in some way badmouth the other
posters, but I was not shocked to find almost no one offered any other
solutions to you for an email client. Most seem fixated on the MS and
Mozilla products. I saw Pegasus Mail mentioned, but I believe
development has stopped. Also Agent (sophisticated, I tried it and
decided against it), which is still being developed. There was one
other, I think, but I'm not going looking! LOL

As you see from my sig, I'm a TB user, but definitely not 100% happy
with it. But it is better *for me* than Apple Mail. LOL If I ever
get the ambition, I'll go look for something else.

As for Windows alternatives other than MS products that everyone
acknowledges don't work correctly in many areas, and TB which you don't
care for, Mozilla also has the SeaMonkey browser which includes an email
client as does the Opera browser, should you wish to look at different
browsers as a package. The open source version of Eudora is based on TB
code. I switched from Eudora a couple years ago to TB, but if/when I go
looking for a TB replacement, I'll check it out again. I'm sure there's
a lot of changes, and I honestly do not remember why I changed. I know
I *really* liked their last commercial version for Windows.

I'd recommend you check out this site:
http://www.windows7download.com/free-win7-email-client/0-r.html

It lists 316 email clients for Win7. Surely more than enough to boggle
the mind. 74 are freeware, and the list includes shareware, trial, and
commercial programs. I'd think you'd find something there that would
appeal to you and what you want in a client. Do not depend on what you
see on the site as being all encompassing. There's a client called
Mahogany listed for Win7, but it's cross platform and the screenshot is
from Mac's OS X! <grin> I'll have to remember to check it out.

And the TB listed at the beginning is so far out of date.

If you see something that looks appealing or sparks your curiosity, use
your favorite search engine to find the home page.

HTH

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 12.0
Thunderbird 12.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.2.2

 

[Stan Brown]

Actually after working with Thunderbird for awhile I think I'll be able to
live with it. It's just more confusing than WM, and after using one type of
email program for 12 years, it's hard to switch

By "more confusing" do you actually mean "unfamiliar"? Of course
using anything new there will be a bit of a learning curve. Windows 
7 itself is a dramatic example of that.

 

[Gene Wirchenko]

Methinks the biggest problem with the "GUI is more intuitive" is what
one person finds intuitive is not intuitive to another.

I think that it is that it often depends on hidden knowledge.

I remember when GUIs were just getting out there that the word
"intuitive" got thrown about a lot, and it seemed that so often "It's
intuitive!" was code for "Well, I know it! What's wrong with you? Are
you stupid of something?" and delivered in about that tone of voice.

Supposed intuitiveness plays to programmers not wanting to
document their code. Or if they must, to keep it to a minimum. One
game on armorgames.com (Hack Slash Crawl) has one page of
documentation. Would it have really hurt for them to explain what the
number next to each spell was? It turned out they were keyboard
shortcuts. I only found out by accident. Had I known, it would have
made playing the game easier. How many users of programs do not know
of some features that would be very useful for them if only they could
easily find out?

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

 

[Char Jackson]

I've just read through this entire thread of messages as it exists at
this moment, saw no one with any real information about your Gmail issue.

Some time back, I was helping a friend in setting up his Thunderbird
client, and we had a lot of problems getting the results we expected.
To put it mildly, we were getting pi$$ed! LOL

Turns out, Google/Gmail handles mail differently than many if not most
places. It wasn't until we really got into how you needed to configure
Gmail at Gmail's end that we finally started to see the results we wanted.

Moral of this short story? It's best if you go to Gmail and thoroughly
understand how Gmail handles POP3 and IMAP requests before placing the
blame on an email client when you don't get the results you expected.

I respectfully disagree. I've set up quite a few GMail accounts and
have never visited the GMail website. Everything you need should be
available within your client.

Second.........

I'm not here to denigrate, malign, or in some way badmouth the other
posters, but I was not shocked to find almost no one offered any other
solutions to you for an email client.

I think you missed the point of several posters. The best advice was
for the person to try several clients and decide for himself which one
works best for him. We're all different and have our unique
expectations and requirements, and as a result there is no single best
solution for everyone.

 

[Ken Springer]

How many users of programs do not know
of some features that would be very useful for them if only they could
easily find out?

Which is why I'm continually b***ching about the lack of documentation
these days for all things computer.

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 13.0.1
Thunderbird 13.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.2.2

 

[R. C. White]

Hi, RH.

This thread has grown so long that it's hard to know where to jump in with a
couple more points about WLM 15, so I'll put them here...

Rules in WLM 15 are not hidden, just in an illogical (in my opinion) place:
On the "Folders" ribbon; the rightmost button is for "Message rules". Click
this and you should see screens very similar to the ones in OE and WM. But
note that the rules for Mail and for News are completely separate; you'll
have to click either the Mail or the News icon at the bottom of the Folders
pane to get WLM into the proper mood...er...mode before you click the
Folders tab.

WLM 15's Ribbon GUI hides the Tools screen TOO well! :>( Not intuitive at
all. That button in the upper left corner of the main screen has no label
at all - until you hover over it and the uninformative popup says simply
"Windows Live Mail". But if you click that button you'll get a drop-down
menu. The sixth choice on that menu is "Options". Hovering there gets
another menu with 5 choices. The top choice, "Mail", is the magic button!
Click that and you'll get the familiar "Tools|Options" screen that OE/WM
users know so well, with its tabs for Read, Send, Spelling, etc.

To make this easier for the future, you need to also discover the QAT, the
Quick Action Toolbar. Go back and click that WLM button again, hover over
Options, then RIGHT-click on Mail and choose "Add to Quick Action Toolbar".
A new icon will appear on the QAT; it looks like a page with a yellow
(gold?) checkmark on it; the Tooltip popup says "Mail". Now you have
one-click access to that Options screen. ;<)

The QAT is your friend! It makes WLM 15 much easier to customize and use.
Too bad Microsoft made it so hard to find. :>(

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2011 (Build 15.4.3555.0308) in Win7 Ultimate x64 SP1


"RH Breener" wrote in message

Hi, RH.

As you probably have learned by now, Win7 comes from Microsoft with NO
mail/news client at all. HP must have added WLM to your machine.
Microsoft got tired of complaints about "bloat" in Windows Vista and
prior, so they removed several add-on features, including mail/news, from
Win7. They say that we are now free to select any mail/news client we
want (Thunderbird, Agent, or any of several others) and install it
ourselves.

OE will not run on Win7. WM will not run on Win7, either, officially. But
some users have made it work with a patch that should not be too hard to
find. (I haven't looked for it because I prefer WLM to WM. I'll probably
get flamed for that.)

RC

No flames. To each is or her own. <smile>

 

[Ken Springer]

On 6/19/12 10:01 PM, Char Jackson wrote:

Hi, Char,

I respectfully disagree. I've set up quite a few GMail accounts and
have never visited the GMail website. Everything you need should be
available within your client.

Possibly we were dealing with something unique my friend wanted that
most do not. I do remember that Gmail doesn't delete mail on it's
server, even if the email client requests it, unless your Gmail settings
tell Gmail to honor the request. That was one thing that hampered our
efforts.

I think you missed the point of several posters. The best advice was
for the person to try several clients and decide for himself which one
works best for him. We're all different and have our unique
expectations and requirements, and as a result there is no single best
solution for everyone.

What I noticed was no one actually made much of an effort to suggest
alternative clients to help him find and try other clients, but
continued on and on about TB and MS clients. To me, that rather left
the OP somewhat in ignorance of other alternatives.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 13.0.1
Thunderbird 13.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.2.2

 

[Gene Wirchenko]

Which is why I'm continually b***ching about the lack of documentation
these days for all things computer.

Likewise.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

 

[Char Jackson]

On 6/19/12 10:01 PM, Char Jackson wrote:

Hi, Char,


Possibly we were dealing with something unique my friend wanted that
most do not. I do remember that Gmail doesn't delete mail on it's
server, even if the email client requests it, unless your Gmail settings
tell Gmail to honor the request. That was one thing that hampered our
efforts.


What I noticed was no one actually made much of an effort to suggest
alternative clients to help him find and try other clients,

I see that part as a good thing.

but
continued on and on about TB and MS clients. To me, that rather left
the OP somewhat in ignorance of other alternatives.

Ignorance can be temporary, so this too is not a bad thing. I get your
point, though, even if I mildly disagree. Thanks.

 

[Roy Smith]

http://ww2.cox.com/residential/centralflorida/support/internet/article.
cox?articleId=%7Bb7514210-62b6-11df-ccef-000000000000%7D

I found it. Thank you. Of the two though, I think I'll end up using
Thunderbird if I can't get WM to work. I don't understand why MS doesn't
have it as a download since a lot of people don't seem to like WLM and are
looking for ways to get WM to work on their W7 computers.

It's a thing called progress. How many new cars sold today come with
a 8-track tape player?

 

[Roy Smith]

Which is why I'm continually b***ching about the lack of documentation
these days for all things computer.

Makes you miss the days of when buying a computer also meant that you
were buying a library of books on how to use and program it as well.

 

[Bruce Hagen]

<Snippage>

And what I was told to do to delete a large number of email in WLM
doesn't work. I can only delete 3 at a time and the same emails keep
coming back every time I open WLM. I've deleted the same ones now for
the 3rd or 4th time. Why do they keep downloading after being deleted?
This never happened with OE or WM. What a waste of my time messing with
WLM.

I have no idea why you can't delete more than 3 messages at a time, but
make sure you empty Deleted Items and compact the folders. That may help.

Regarding receiving the same messages over and over:

1: Did you uncheck "Leave a copy on the server"?

2: Temporarily uncheck: Get messages every X minutes. If WLMail polls for
new messages before the download completes, it will start over again from
message one.

 

[Ken Blake]

Makes you miss the days of when buying a computer also meant that you
were buying a library of books on how to use and program it as well.

Like all of you, I'm also unhappy about the lack of documentation
these days. But not getting that "library of books" has helped keep
the cost of software down.

 

[Char Jackson]

Then how do you send the message to your NSP to be forwarded to Usenet? Is
there a way to do that without an email address?

Usenet and email are two completely separate systems. There is such a
thing as an email-to-Usenet gateway, but 99.99% of us don't do it that
way. Do you?

As for how to access Usenet without involving email: use a Usenet
client, which you're already doing.

 

[Char Jackson]

You would at least have to have an outgoing email account - no? It has to
get to the NSP somehow.

Hint: email is rarely involved. Here's some light reading.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet>
<http://computer.howstuffworks.com/internet/social-networking/information/newsgroup.htm>
<http://people.dsv.su.se/~jpalme/e-mail-book/usenet-news.html>
<http://www.harley.com/usenet/usenet-tutorial/how-does-usenet-work.html>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=how usenet works>

 

[Char Jackson]

I'm about to give up on trying to get WM to work on
W7. I have to admit I'm very disappointed in that it's there, and yet MS
doesn't allow it's use, and by all the aggravation with Permissions and
TrustedInstallers and Administration popup windows. I had heard complaints
about W7 from people I know and at work, but thought they were just
bitching, exaggerating. But now I see they were right.

I still think they're just bitching and exaggerating. Some people
adapt to change, while others don't do so well. With your attitude,
you'll probably have a hard time adapting.

 

[Ken Springer]

What about Usenet though? Does Eudora and SeaMonkey include that, or would
you need a seperate program for Usenet? I believe both are browsers only.

I honestly don't know/remember, but since both use the TB code, I
suspect both will probably have Usenet capability. Be aware, TB does
have problems with the Usenet and doing things properly, just as OE
does/did.

I've seen lots of discussion threads over time about whether having both
email and Usenet capability in one program is a good idea or not. I
suspect the only real advantage is convenience. But each individual
desires to have things work in a way that's comfortable for them, which
is good IMO. I just get frustrated with the contemporary situation
where you generally just hear about a few ubiquitous programs rather
than having easier access to viewing a larger "menu" of programs.

One thing I've learned about computer software over the years is no one
program does everything well, and often fails to do anything truly well.
If you really want it to work right, use a program designed to do that
job and little else.

Opera's email client used to do the Usenet, I used it years ago, so I
suspect it still does the Usenet.

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 13.0.1
Thunderbird 13.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.2.2