32 GB memory stick

[Daniel James]

Subscription concerts started after Haydn and Mozart.

I was going to keep out of the musical discussion here ... but I think
this statement deserves to be challenged.

There certainly *were* subscription concerts at least as early as the
mid C18th, and Mozart, at least, is known to have arranged some such
concerts of his own works, and probably played at them.

Haydn was lucky enough to have be in employment for all his working
life, so most of his own performances of his works will have been
private performances for his patrons and their guests and he did not
need to arrange subscriptions to supplement his income, but he did
perform at public concerts (on his visits to England, for example) and
some of his works were first performed at subscription concerts (e.g.
the Paris symphonies) in his absence.

None of this significantly detracts from your argument, of course ...

Cheers,
Daniel.

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

On 19/11/2011 22:16, Ed Cryer wrote: []

Two images of Beethoven;
Beethoven the bad;

Beethoven the good;

Ed

The first clip probably does reflect the essence of that event but is

Oh, was it based on a recorded event then?

(The bridge looked very modern to me: from the bridge design rather than
the costumes, I'd have put it at early 20th century rather than
Beethovenzeit. Even if the event is recorded, is the bridge design also
authentic? [I don't mean the little eagles.])

I found hearing him speak with a pronounced American accent hard to
accept, but that is of course cultural - I would certainly understand if
an American audience found him hard to accept with a British one.

definitely over-dramatized. But I couldn't help myself laughing seeing

Yes, I suspected it was overdone.

the second clip. "Dicktaking" a musical work in that fashion would take
forever and I dare say it would have been an easier task for Beethoven

Same thought occurred to me. Though the young woman had some concept
("an octave higher?") of what he was doing.

to write it down himself rather than dictating it in that fashion. Or
he could have written the basic stuff and left it to some assistant to
fill in the fluff!

This is really comical. It is something like taking instructions on the
phone to paint a Mona Lisa. I have a theory that Leonardo da Vinci
instructed his blonde secretary over the phone to create the Mona Lisa!
;-)
-- choro

Ah, good old Leonard Vincent. (SF short story - I forget title or author
- that he was a 20C student, transported back in time and unable to
return.)

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

BTW, it's Dvoøák.

In my newsreader, both in the original post and as I see it above as I'm
typing this followup, I see Dvo, then a lower case o with a slash
through it, then a acute, then k. In a followup from one of the other
conspirators, the a acute remains, but the o slash is replaced by a
question mark. (I know it's really Dvo r-inverted-circumflex ak, at
least I don't know if there is an accent on the a. Dvo?ak in other words
- though as I pasted that in, it changed to a question mark in this
software, so I don't know if it's going or not.)

 

[Ed Cryer]

[]
The battle has been won but "art" has been degraded in the process;
made accessible to the masses. A pile of bricks, neon tubes on a wall,
a rotting sheep, an unmade bed, a big crack in a floor.

I'm not clear whether you mean by art has been made accessible to the
masses: do you mean the masses now have access to art, or now have the
right to make it (with a resultant decline in its quality)?

People have always had the "right" to make art. Presumably you mean they
have the time or the means to make art. But then art or the lack of it
is in everything we do. There is art even in serving a dish! Art is
everywhere!

I suspect you mean the latter, as it sounds as if the bricks, neons,
sheep, bed, and crack are not to your taste.

I don't think they're to mine either (except the neon - I'm unfamiliar
with what you're referring to there), but I don't feel qualified to say
they're definitely not art, only that they don't do much for me.

Back to the times when "art" still encompassed a reaching out to
something higher.
In my humble opinion the greatest of all the great "starving in a
garret" composers was Schubert. Shy, tubby little Schubert. Schubert
who saw Beethoven striding through Vienna, never got introduced to him
but helped carry his coffin. Schubert who wouldn't have known what to
do with fame and public recognition if it had blocked his doorway.

I could make a serious case that the "Unfinished" is just about the
greatest symphony ever written; and it wasn't composed while striding
along country lanes and conducting trees; no, it was composed in a

(That image sounds familiar, but I can't place it.)

I like the unfinished.
[]

Two images of Beethoven;
Beethoven the bad;

Beethoven the good;

Ed

The first clip probably does reflect the essence of that event but is
definitely over-dramatized. But I couldn't help myself laughing seeing
the second clip. "Dicktaking" a musical work in that fashion would take
forever and I dare say it would have been an easier task for Beethoven
to write it down himself rather than dictating it in that fashion. Or he
could have written the basic stuff and left it to some assistant to fill
in the fluff!

This is really comical. It is something like taking instructions on the
phone to paint a Mona Lisa. I have a theory that Leonardo da Vinci
instructed his blonde secretary over the phone to create the Mona Lisa! ;-)
-- choro

PS. Or was his secretary a brunette? May be he met her at one of those
Berlusconi bunga bunga parties!

Ain't I just being a bit too sarcastic?!

You aint seen nottin yet.
This is the age of the emancipated woman, and behind every great man
there is a great woman.
How did B manage to conduct the first performance of the Ninth Symphony?
Here is the film's answer;

Ed

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

You're the one, peon, who apperas to put yourself above everybody
else.

With a little thought, that above sentence is priceless.
[]
(That's the one that appeared as a ? to me.)

I peon you, too.

OK, I'll forgive you your boring abuse of Gene for that bit of humour
(-:!(Though not your lot of trailing blank lines.)

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

On 19/11/2011 23:25, Mack A. Damia wrote: []

Lard is still the favorite choice of cooking oil/fat in Mexico; yet,
Mexicans have one of the longest lifespans among all the peoples of
the world.

Go figure.

Southern Europeans use a lot more oil in cooking than we do (and yet
live longer). Some nation (I forget which) smokes a lot more than we do,
and yet live longer. Etcetera, etcetera - I forget the other examples.

The conclusion is that it's speaking English (of the rightpondian or
leftpondian variety) that dooms us (-:!

If you wait till next year all the medical establishments will sing the
praises of red meat and lard and warn you of how good butter is for you
as opposed to margarine which, they will say, has been proven to be
carcinogenic!

1. Woody Allen (some of whose work I enjoy, but I don't find him the
genius some do - but "you can't fight Annie Hall") had a nice take on
this in the film Sleeper, in which his character awakes from a sleep
some centuries from now, and finds among other things that Hot Fudge is
considered a wonderful medicine ...

2. "Everything I like is either illegal, immoral, or fattening - or
causes cancer in rats."

And did you know that ordinary water of the H2O variety is definitely a
health risk and that you could die drinking it? And there is solid
proof to this effect. A girl in the USA died drinking water! True!
Honest!
-- choro

Oh yes, DHMO is a dangerous substance:
http://web.archive.org/web/19961031232918/http://media.circus.com/~no_dhmo/
(one of the many references at the bottom of
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DHMO .)

 

[choro]

On 18/11/2011 20:26, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
[]
The battle has been won but "art" has been degraded in the process;
made accessible to the masses. A pile of bricks, neon tubes on a wall,
a rotting sheep, an unmade bed, a big crack in a floor.

I'm not clear whether you mean by art has been made accessible to the
masses: do you mean the masses now have access to art, or now have the
right to make it (with a resultant decline in its quality)?

People have always had the "right" to make art. Presumably you mean they
have the time or the means to make art. But then art or the lack of it
is in everything we do. There is art even in serving a dish! Art is
everywhere!

I suspect you mean the latter, as it sounds as if the bricks, neons,
sheep, bed, and crack are not to your taste.

I don't think they're to mine either (except the neon - I'm unfamiliar
with what you're referring to there), but I don't feel qualified to say
they're definitely not art, only that they don't do much for me.

Back to the times when "art" still encompassed a reaching out to
something higher.
In my humble opinion the greatest of all the great "starving in a
garret" composers was Schubert. Shy, tubby little Schubert. Schubert
who saw Beethoven striding through Vienna, never got introduced to him
but helped carry his coffin. Schubert who wouldn't have known what to
do with fame and public recognition if it had blocked his doorway.

I could make a serious case that the "Unfinished" is just about the
greatest symphony ever written; and it wasn't composed while striding
along country lanes and conducting trees; no, it was composed in a

(That image sounds familiar, but I can't place it.)

I like the unfinished.
[]

Two images of Beethoven;
Beethoven the bad;

Beethoven the good;

Ed

The first clip probably does reflect the essence of that event but is
definitely over-dramatized. But I couldn't help myself laughing seeing
the second clip. "Dicktaking" a musical work in that fashion would take
forever and I dare say it would have been an easier task for Beethoven
to write it down himself rather than dictating it in that fashion. Or he
could have written the basic stuff and left it to some assistant to fill
in the fluff!

This is really comical. It is something like taking instructions on the
phone to paint a Mona Lisa. I have a theory that Leonardo da Vinci
instructed his blonde secretary over the phone to create the Mona
Lisa! ;-)
-- choro

PS. Or was his secretary a brunette? May be he met her at one of those
Berlusconi bunga bunga parties!

Ain't I just being a bit too sarcastic?!

You aint seen nottin yet.
This is the age of the emancipated woman, and behind every great man
there is a great woman.
How did B manage to conduct the first performance of the Ninth Symphony?
Here is the film's answer;

Ed

I guess this beats them all! Time Lapse had not yet been invented in
those days, I guess, and as such it didn't exist.

I know! Beethoven's physical actions were computer controlled based on
the woman's limb actions and facial expressions. Oh, yes! It must have
been that. It could only have been that. Instant replay with not even a
nano-second's delay.
-- choro

 

[choro]

Read below for a bit of fine sarcasm!

You made me laugh, you Stumbling Block! ;-)
-- choro

 

[choro]

I was going to keep out of the musical discussion here ... but I think
this statement deserves to be challenged.

There certainly *were* subscription concerts at least as early as the
mid C18th, and Mozart, at least, is known to have arranged some such
concerts of his own works, and probably played at them.

Haydn was lucky enough to have be in employment for all his working
life, so most of his own performances of his works will have been
private performances for his patrons and their guests and he did not
need to arrange subscriptions to supplement his income, but he did
perform at public concerts (on his visits to England, for example) and
some of his works were first performed at subscription concerts (e.g.
the Paris symphonies) in his absence.

None of this significantly detracts from your argument, of course ...

Cheers,
Daniel.

I am not going to take up this matter with you. Of course you are right.
But still it was Beethoven who broke the mold, don't you agree? What is
that fine expression in English? "It is the exception that proves the rule."
-- choro

 

[Mack A. Damia]

You don't get out much, do you?
--
mad

Read below for a bit of fine sarcasm!

You made me laugh, you Stumbling Block! ;-)
-- choro

 

[choro]

!. It's quite stirring, IMPO.

2. With that pause, it could work *quite well* with a 9, although I
might argue that it's closer to a dance than a march Or it's a
ceremonial march, but anyway, it is new to me and it becomes a good
argument for a 9:8 march. So you win, after all.

Do I? Well, thank you! You are being very generous. But see my comment
on this score at the bottom. Now that I have created a new strain of
marching, I'll have to get busy and write a suitable marching tune!!!;-)

3. I was at a folk dance gathering last night. Last night's teaching and
music were devoted to Greek dances, but some of the dances they played
were 9:8, and when I wasn't dancing, I marched in the normal left-right
way, which of course didn't work. I discussed your previous point with a
couple of friends. Next meeting (two weeks, because of Thanksgiving)
I'll show them what this film clip demonstrates. We *are* willing to
learn!

I love Greek music too. Recently I discovered another singer and sent
the YouTube URL to a Greek friend of mine who also quite liked it but
admitted to me that he had not been aware of this fine singer. What is
more, unlike Maria Farantouri who raised popular songs to the level of
art music, she is very pretty too. I find her quite "seksy" in fact and
know her as "h Chrisoula mou" (or "My Chrisoula"). Here she is singing
one of those fine songs accompanied by some very accomplished
instumental group. (Note the different transliterations from Greek as
the Greek H sounds like the name of the letter E while the J sound is in
the Spanish word Junta is nowadays being transliterated as H rather than
the old Ch which I tend to use. Actually in the Greek alphabet the
letter X is used for this gutteral J or H or Kh, or Ch sound in Greek --
all very confusing!)

Hrysoula Stefanaki sings an old Greek song

But if you get the time also listen to Maria Farantouri (accompanied on
the guitar by John Williams) singing songs to the poems of Garcia Lorca.
She is also fantastic.

But I won't skip this bit before I also mention Amalia Rodrigues singing
Portugese Fado!

That's a different thing, but interestingly, when the soldiers came out
and did their mock battle, I almost thought I was watching Morris
Dancing.

Some say "Morris" in that phrase is a corruption of "Moorish". Coupled
with that clip, I might very well agree...


Given how your clip looked to me, I have to disagree that you're a fool!

Thanks.

One of these days I'll re-discover that rendition of the Alla Turca on
the piano that creates that feeling of the skipped 4th step. All I can
remember now is that it was a recording by one of the most famous pianists.

In the meantime, I still feel I made a fool of myself by relying purely
on memory even though, thinking about it, I realize that my 9/8 march of
2+2+2+3 quavers, though quite possible, can only be a slow ceremonial
march (!) if the music is to make any sense at all, that is.

For a quick march, music set to the irregular 9/8 rhythm will lose all
its meaning.
-- choro

 

[Robin Bignall]

I like(d) Shirley Bassey especially when she was younger and used to
appear in that low cut dress at the back; cut down to her you know what!
But can't recollect the song that is on your mind.

"Hey, Big Spender" was one of the songs where she wore such a dress.

These days I love listening to Edith Piaf. Incredible chanteuse of
French chanson! But if you like singing you should also listen to
Cantaloupe, Songs of the Auvergne, sung by Vittorio de Los Angeles. I've
got two other versions on CD but her version is best.

Also Google for...

Schubert lieder Peter Schreier Hermann Prey Gerald Moore

Dietrich Fischer Diskau will also show up, of course. And Gerald Moore
is a superb accompanist of the highest calibre.
-- choro

However, there is one thing I can say and that is that being engaged
in this exchange of views on these two unlikely newsgroups has given
me a lot of pleasure.

Me too. Though I can't help wondering what the other denizens are
thinking, especially of the Windows one!
[]

 

[choro]

[]
But still, I am what I am and cannot go back.

Ah, that song about the giant vegetable, of which I think Shirley Bassey
gives the best performance.

I like(d) Shirley Bassey especially when she was younger and used to
appear in that low cut dress at the back; cut down to her you know what!
But can't recollect the song that is on your mind.

"Hey, Big Spender" was one of the songs where she wore such a dress.

Hey, of course I remember that one! Who doesn't?
You could see her "cheeks" in that dress! And what "cheeks"!
-- choro

These days I love listening to Edith Piaf. Incredible chanteuse of
French chanson! But if you like singing you should also listen to
Cantaloupe, Songs of the Auvergne, sung by Vittorio de Los Angeles. I've
got two other versions on CD but her version is best.

Also Google for...

Schubert lieder Peter Schreier Hermann Prey Gerald Moore

Dietrich Fischer Diskau will also show up, of course. And Gerald Moore
is a superb accompanist of the highest calibre.
-- choro

However, there is one thing I can say and that is that being engaged
in this exchange of views on these two unlikely newsgroups has given
me a lot of pleasure.

Me too. Though I can't help wondering what the other denizens are
thinking, especially of the Windows one!
[]

 

[choro]

You don't get out much, do you?

How can I go out if I am out already? Right now I am in a pub garden,
sitting with my pint with half a dozen friends. In the meantime, I do my
thing on NGs too. Anything wrong with that?

There are lots of pubs around with wi-fi facility, you know.
-- choro

 

[Mack A. Damia]

With a little thought, that above sentence is priceless.

I'm slow; I don't get it; please enlighten me, but how much do you
think I could get for it. I'm willing to let it go for a ridiculous
low price, and since you laughed, I'll even give you a discount.

[]
(That's the one that appeared as a ? to me.)

Me too.

OK, I'll forgive you your boring abuse of Gene for that bit of humour

So abuse is only a one way street? I don' sink so

(-:!
(Though not your lot of trailing blank lines.)

Not my fault. Pookie did it.

 

[Mack A. Damia]

In my newsreader, both in the original post and as I see it above as I'm
typing this followup, I see Dvo, then a lower case o with a slash
through it, then a acute, then k. In a followup from one of the other
conspirators, the a acute remains, but the o slash is replaced by a
question mark. (I know it's really Dvo r-inverted-circumflex ak, at
least I don't know if there is an accent on the a. Dvo?ak in other words
- though as I pasted that in, it changed to a question mark in this
software, so I don't know if it's going or not.)

I copied and pasted his name from a biography, and it appeared correct
to me.

 

[Mack A. Damia]

Ah, that song about the giant vegetable, of which I think Shirley Bassey
gives the best performance.

(snip)

Speaking of vegetables, my housekeeper and I went to a Chinese
restaurant in Ensenada for lunch last week.

After we left she was laughing and blushing at the same time, and she
asked me if I' had seen the (%$&^*) clams in the tank. The word she
used was unintelligible and sounded something like "Giant". I hadn't
noticed the tank.

A few days later we went back, and I had a good look. There was a
huge tank in the corner with very large ordinary looking clams - maybe
a couple of dozen. But coming out of each clam was a large white
cylindrical object about 12 inches to 24 inches long. I must tell you
that it closely resembled a penis.

According to my housekeeper, they are difficult to find, and the
Chinese prize them. The flesh of the clam sticking out of the shell
is cut up and used in various dishes. But I tell you in all honesty,
with the large shell and this long white thing sticking out, it just
looked like a testicle with a giant penis.

The Mexicans make a joke about them resembling the male anatomy.

I've looked for a photo under "clam" and "giant clam" but can't find
anything remotely similar. Anybody know about this seafood creature?

 

[Mack A. Damia]

How can I go out if I am out already? Right now I am in a pub garden,
sitting with my pint with half a dozen friends. In the meantime, I do my
thing on NGs too. Anything wrong with that?

Not if you're a groupie

There are lots of pubs around with wi-fi facility, you know.

I moved beyond the "pub" stage of life about twenty years ago.

 

[Peter Jason]

On 19/11/2011 18:59, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
[]
But still, I am what I am and cannot go back.

Ah, that song about the giant vegetable, of which I think Shirley Bassey
gives the best performance.

I like(d) Shirley Bassey especially when she was younger and used to
appear in that low cut dress at the back; cut down to her you know what!
But can't recollect the song that is on your mind.

"Hey, Big Spender" was one of the songs where she wore such a dress.

Hey, of course I remember that one! Who doesn't?
You could see her "cheeks" in that dress! And what "cheeks"!
-- choro

These days I love listening to Edith Piaf. Incredible chanteuse of
French chanson! But if you like singing you should also listen to
Cantaloupe, Songs of the Auvergne, sung by Vittorio de Los Angeles. I've
got two other versions on CD but her version is best.

Also Google for...

Schubert lieder Peter Schreier Hermann Prey Gerald Moore

Dietrich Fischer Diskau will also show up, of course. And Gerald Moore
is a superb accompanist of the highest calibre.
-- choro


However, there is one thing I can say and that is that being engaged
in this exchange of views on these two unlikely newsgroups has given
me a lot of pleasure.

Me too. Though I can't help wondering what the other denizens are
thinking, especially of the Windows one!
[]

Many of the classic performers are on uTube.....

& look at this... (wait for the fugue.)

 

[choro]

On 19/11/2011 22:16, Ed Cryer wrote: []

Two images of Beethoven;
Beethoven the bad;

Beethoven the good;

Ed

The first clip probably does reflect the essence of that event but is

Oh, was it based on a recorded event then?

(The bridge looked very modern to me: from the bridge design rather than
the costumes, I'd have put it at early 20th century rather than
Beethovenzeit. Even if the event is recorded, is the bridge design also
authentic? [I don't mean the little eagles.])

I found hearing him speak with a pronounced American accent hard to
accept, but that is of course cultural - I would certainly understand if
an American audience found him hard to accept with a British one.

A good actor would have spoken his lines with a Germanic accent which
would have made the scene a bit more realistic.

Yes, I suspected it was overdone.


Same thought occurred to me. Though the young woman had some concept
("an octave higher?") of what he was doing.

What a composer would do in such circumstances, would be to play the
passage and let his assistant jot down the notation. In fact Joachim
Rodrigo did this with his wife taking down the notation. As you know,
Rodrigo of Aranjuez fame (easily the most popular guitar concerto ever)
was totally blind.
-- choro