OT: Question about Office 2013

[Mike Barnes]

For work. No other email program does the job properly. My business
requires HTML emails and multiple signatures. No other email program
does it properly.

[OT] There might be a good reason in your case, but I can't see the
point of HTML e-mail, from the recipient's point of view. There are
plenty of reasons from the sender's point of view, but I was always
taught to write with your reader's interests in mind.

 

[Bob Henson]

For work. No other email program does the job properly. My business
requires HTML emails and multiple signatures. No other email program
does it properly.

[OT] There might be a good reason in your case, but I can't see the
point of HTML e-mail, from the recipient's point of view. There are
plenty of reasons from the sender's point of view, but I was always
taught to write with your reader's interests in mind.

I use Outlook for the same reason as Peter. Even though I don't get
business mail (used to be almost exclusively HTML) now I've retired, I
find that most mail is now HTML anyway. I forward quite a lot of it to
others, and since it frequently contains graphics, I do as you suggest
and forward it with my readers interests in mind - in HTML. That's the
bit that Thunderbird and others can't do correctly, and/or automatically.

I can see all the reasons for, and would prefer, plain text - but so few
people use it now that I have abandoned it altogether for convenience.

 

[Asger Joergensen]

Hi Bob

I use Outlook for the same reason as Peter. Even though I don't get
business mail (used to be almost exclusively HTML) now I've retired, I
find that most mail is now HTML anyway. I forward quite a lot of it to
others, and since it frequently contains graphics, I do as you suggest
and forward it with my readers interests in mind - in HTML. That's the
bit that Thunderbird and others can't do correctly, and/or automatically.

Have you tried Opera ?
http://www.opera-usb.com/
Opera handles html very well.

 

[Bob Henson]

Hi Bob



Have you tried Opera ?
http://www.opera-usb.com/
Opera handles html very well.

Yes - I didn't like it at all - I found it very idiosyncratic. As I have
Outlook anyway, it's the obvious one to use, and I have no need to
change as there is nothing that Outlook won't do easily - with the
exception of handling GnuPG, and that's a rarity these days.

 

[Peter Taylor]

Hi Bob



Have you tried Opera ?
http://www.opera-usb.com/
Opera handles html very well.

Does it allow you to use multiple signatures or only one per email account?

 

[Mike Barnes]

On 2/22/2013 1:46 PM, Stan Brown wrote:
On Thu, 21 Feb 2013 02:12:36 +0100, Peter Taylor wrote:

I need Outlook.

Forevermore, why?


For work. No other email program does the job properly. My business
requires HTML emails and multiple signatures. No other email program
does it properly.

[OT] There might be a good reason in your case, but I can't see the
point of HTML e-mail, from the recipient's point of view. There are
plenty of reasons from the sender's point of view, but I was always
taught to write with your reader's interests in mind.

I use Outlook for the same reason as Peter. Even though I don't get
business mail (used to be almost exclusively HTML) now I've retired, I
find that most mail is now HTML anyway. I forward quite a lot of it to
others, and since it frequently contains graphics, I do as you suggest
and forward it with my readers interests in mind - in HTML. That's the
bit that Thunderbird and others can't do correctly, and/or automatically.

This doesn't help if an HTML message is what you've got to forward, but
it's perfectly easy to embed images in plain text e-mail. You wouldn't
guess that from the name "plain text", but it's true.

I've sent countless images and other attachments in e-mails, but I've
never sent an HTML e-mail in my life. I think it unlikely I ever will.

 

[Peter Taylor]

Peter Taylor <[email protected]>:
On 2/22/2013 1:46 PM, Stan Brown wrote:
On Thu, 21 Feb 2013 02:12:36 +0100, Peter Taylor wrote:

I need Outlook.

Forevermore, why?


For work. No other email program does the job properly. My business
requires HTML emails and multiple signatures. No other email program
does it properly.

[OT] There might be a good reason in your case, but I can't see the
point of HTML e-mail, from the recipient's point of view. There are
plenty of reasons from the sender's point of view, but I was always
taught to write with your reader's interests in mind.

I use Outlook for the same reason as Peter. Even though I don't get
business mail (used to be almost exclusively HTML) now I've retired, I
find that most mail is now HTML anyway. I forward quite a lot of it to
others, and since it frequently contains graphics, I do as you suggest
and forward it with my readers interests in mind - in HTML. That's the
bit that Thunderbird and others can't do correctly, and/or automatically.

This doesn't help if an HTML message is what you've got to forward, but
it's perfectly easy to embed images in plain text e-mail. You wouldn't
guess that from the name "plain text", but it's true.

I've sent countless images and other attachments in e-mails, but I've
never sent an HTML e-mail in my life. I think it unlikely I ever will.

How would you suggest getting a company logo in the email? Would you
write: P.S. if you want to see our logo, open the attachment?

 

[Mike Barnes]

On 22/02/2013 1:53 PM, Mike Barnes wrote:
Peter Taylor <[email protected]>:
On 2/22/2013 1:46 PM, Stan Brown wrote:
On Thu, 21 Feb 2013 02:12:36 +0100, Peter Taylor wrote:

I need Outlook.

Forevermore, why?


For work. No other email program does the job properly. My business
requires HTML emails and multiple signatures. No other email program
does it properly.

[OT] There might be a good reason in your case, but I can't see the
point of HTML e-mail, from the recipient's point of view. There are
plenty of reasons from the sender's point of view, but I was always
taught to write with your reader's interests in mind.


I use Outlook for the same reason as Peter. Even though I don't get
business mail (used to be almost exclusively HTML) now I've retired, I
find that most mail is now HTML anyway. I forward quite a lot of it to
others, and since it frequently contains graphics, I do as you suggest
and forward it with my readers interests in mind - in HTML. That's the
bit that Thunderbird and others can't do correctly, and/or automatically.

This doesn't help if an HTML message is what you've got to forward, but
it's perfectly easy to embed images in plain text e-mail. You wouldn't
guess that from the name "plain text", but it's true.

I've sent countless images and other attachments in e-mails, but I've
never sent an HTML e-mail in my life. I think it unlikely I ever will.

How would you suggest getting a company logo in the email? Would you
write: P.S. if you want to see our logo, open the attachment?

That sounds like a pretty crummy e-mail client you've got there. If it
can display a logo in an HTML message, why can't it display one in a
plain text message?

Anyway, I'm not a company, so I don't need to include a logo. And as a
*reader*, all I want to know is the company name, which can be written
in plain text. I have no need or desire to see a logo. Unless someone
can explain how it would benefit me.

 

[Asger Joergensen]

Hi Peter

Does it allow you to use multiple signatures or only one per email account?

Actually I think only one, but I have never use that part of Opera I have
my own little program holding all my signatures, code snippets and things,
works with all mail programs that accept paste.;-)

 

[Peter Taylor]

Hi Peter



Actually I think only one, but I have never use that part of Opera I have
my own little program holding all my signatures, code snippets and things,
works with all mail programs that accept paste.;-)

What program is that?

 

[Asger Joergensen]

Hi Peter

What program is that?

Home made, not on the market yet, sorry.

 

[Mike Barnes]

Does it allow you to use multiple signatures or only one per email account?

I'm just being nosy so ignore me if you like, but... if your mail or
news client doesn't do multiple sigs, can't you maintain a library of
alternatives in Notepad or whatever, and just paste the appropriate one
in at the end of your message? Alternatively there are clipboard
managers, keyboard macro programs, etc, that would make this even
easier.

 

[Peter Taylor]

I'm just being nosy so ignore me if you like, but... if your mail or
news client doesn't do multiple sigs, can't you maintain a library of
alternatives in Notepad or whatever, and just paste the appropriate one
in at the end of your message? Alternatively there are clipboard
managers, keyboard macro programs, etc, that would make this even
easier.

I used to do that but found signatures to be quicker. T-Bird has Quick
Text but the HTML sucks.

 

[BillW50]

Seeing as this is "not the real world" at all, what's it worth to us ?

Nothing.

So your world view is a bit skewed. Not a problem.

No, you are mistaken. Companies do care. If a company has a bad product,
they pay the price. Their stock goes down, their profits drops, and all
around just bad.

I prefer to see value in everything I use. A little bit here
and a little bit there. If some thing I'm using, isn't the best
for the job, I skip over and find something else to take its place.
No sense moaning about it, as whether you're using freeware or
commercial software, nobody gives a rats ass if it doesn't work
for you.

Sure they do. Because I am sure I am not alone. In fact, just do a
search for _Libre Office crashes_ and you will see tons of people have
similar problems with Libre Office.

*******

Since you're so well equipped in your computing facility,
you could:

1) Start with a blank disk.
2) Install Windows, using nothing more than Service Packs and
Windows Update.
3) Install LibreOffice.
4) Open a text window.
5) Type into it.
6) It doesn't crash.

Step 2 need not be as onerous as it seems, if you kept a
backup of your last install, and just restored it for the
experiment. I keep at least one OS image for that very
purpose ("clean"-type experiments). This avoids the complexity
of having 101 screensavers, codecs, and assorted garbage on the
box, to tip it the experiment. And give unexplained results.

Since a crashing app leaves logs, you could even use
things like dumpchk or bluescreenviewer. That is, if you
were at all curious.

Paul

Naw... bad idea. I'll just use Kingsoft Office 2012 instead. It is far
better than Libre Office and so far it hasn't crashed either. Coding to
send characters to a window is one of the easiest things to program for.
If they can't even get that right, I am not interested in whatever they
have to offer. Heck I wouldn't even call them real programmers.

 

[John Williamson]

No, you are mistaken. Companies do care. If a company has a bad product,
they pay the price. Their stock goes down, their profits drops, and all
around just bad.


Sure they do. Because I am sure I am not alone. In fact, just do a
search for _Libre Office crashes_ and you will see tons of people have
similar problems with Libre Office.


Naw... bad idea. I'll just use Kingsoft Office 2012 instead. It is far
better than Libre Office and so far it hasn't crashed either. Coding to
send characters to a window is one of the easiest things to program for.
If they can't even get that right, I am not interested in whatever they
have to offer. Heck I wouldn't even call them real programmers.

Whereas "Microsoft Office crashes" comes up with 37,700,000 results, as
against just over a million for "Libreoffice crashes". Dont' forget that
probably 99% of MS office crashes will be dealt with by the IT
department without being reported on the web, whereas less than half of
all LO installations are in places with an IT department.

Your point is what, exactly?

 

[BillW50]

You've admitted that you've only ever tried it on a system that sounds
marginal even for the OS on its own, so an application crashing isn't
exactly unexpected.

What? Naw a Motion Computing LE1700 isn't marginal at all. Some say it
is the best PC Tablet ever created. So far, I haven't found a better PC
Tablet yet. ;-)

Did the MD5 checksum on your download match the one on the website?
Yes!

Does the system you're using match the minimum spec listed? There's an
assumption within the last few years that if it will run a modern OS,
then it will run any applications supported by that OS. It's possible
you've got a problem with your Java installation, too, as LO uses Java
for certain operations including the accessibility and database report
features.

Yes it far exceeds the minimum spec listed. Oh man! Libre Office uses
Java? That is trouble right there. If they can't code simple typing to
the window and get that right, which is very basic programming. I've
done a lot of programming in my time and I can't see a programmer being
that bad and screwing that up.

Anyway problem fixed. I just junked Libre Office (that is where it
belongs IMHO) and installed Kingsoft Office 2012 and this one works just
fine. And it is a better Office than Libre will ever be. And if you do a
search for _Libre Office crashes_, you will see it appears to be a very
common problem.

 

[BillW50]

Whereas "Microsoft Office crashes" comes up with 37,700,000 results, as
against just over a million for "Libreoffice crashes". Dont' forget that
probably 99% of MS office crashes will be dealt with by the IT
department without being reported on the web, whereas less than half of
all LO installations are in places with an IT department.

Your point is what, exactly?

Oh man! Where is your common sense and where did you leave it? There are
one billion MS Office users out there. How many Libre Office users out
there? I am sure it isn't even close.

http://blog.customereffective.com/b...ldwide-partner-conference-by-the-numbers.html

And you forget if software gives me any beef, the best thing to do is to
get rid of it. I would do that with MS Office too if that ever happened.
And I would suggest the same for everybody else too. Life is too short
to waste on bad software.

 

[John Williamson]

BillW50 wrote:
My common sense is here, unlike yours when you condemn a program based
on one short experience

And you forget if software gives me any beef, the best thing to do is to
get rid of it. I would do that with MS Office too if that ever happened.
And I would suggest the same for everybody else too. Life is too short
to waste on bad software.

As I've never had a problem with any version of OO or LO in the last
couple of decades, and the top ten results in the search for problems
you suggest were almost all immediately fixed by changing from Sun's JRE
to Openjdk, or updating the Sun JRE, how does that make LO a bad
program? I also find it pretty compatible with MSO documents, more so
than early versions of MSO are with later MSO document formats.

You have said you have tried it for a short period on one tablet running
(presumably) Windows 7 or 8. Your problem could be a driver conflict
with the onscreen keyboard, unless you are using a proper keyboard with
a tablet. I say that I have had no problems at all with it in twenty
years or so of using various versions under many different operating
systems.

You chose to use a different program, which is your choice. If I try
your choice on this system and it crashes due to an unforeseen
dependency or driver issue, in your opinion, should I post here
condemning it out of hand without at least trying to solve the problem?

 

[BillW50]

BillW50 wrote:
My common sense is here, unlike yours when you condemn a program based
on one short experience

As I've never had a problem with any version of OO or LO in the last
couple of decades, and the top ten results in the search for problems
you suggest were almost all immediately fixed by changing from Sun's JRE
to Openjdk, or updating the Sun JRE, how does that make LO a bad
program? I also find it pretty compatible with MSO documents, more so
than early versions of MSO are with later MSO document formats.

You have said you have tried it for a short period on one tablet running
(presumably) Windows 7 or 8. Your problem could be a driver conflict
with the onscreen keyboard, unless you are using a proper keyboard with
a tablet. I say that I have had no problems at all with it in twenty
years or so of using various versions under many different operating
systems.

You chose to use a different program, which is your choice. If I try
your choice on this system and it crashes due to an unforeseen
dependency or driver issue, in your opinion, should I post here
condemning it out of hand without at least trying to solve the problem?

Oh man! IMHO you are way off. For starters, the Motion Computing LE1700
is called by some as the best PC Tablet ever created to date. And quite
frankly, I have never found a better one myself yet.

I have 30+ machines here and my all time favorite chipset is the Intel
Core2 Duo with the Intel 945GM. Many manufactures used them and I find
them highly reliable and super compatible. Two of my LE1700 uses them
too. I never ran into a Windows version problem or a driver issue
problem with this chipset from XP all the way to Windows 8. Which is
another reason why I like them so much.

Yes, I have spent zillions of hours in the last few decades finding out
why a program failed. Then I report it with documentation to the
developer. And most of the time, they fix it.

Then one day I looked back and asked myself was it all worth it? Hell no
it wasn't. If I had to do it all over again, I would have never
bothered. As why should I use my professional skills to help out a
company that I don't even care about for free? What do I get out of the
deal? Nothing but lots of lost time.

And no, I wasn't using the LE1700 with the onscreen keyboard. Sure it is
fine for web browsing, reading emails and viewing newsgroups, and
playing videos and all. But for composing posts, word processing,
spreadsheets, etc? Hell no! That isn't productive at all.

No I usually dock my PC Tablets most of the time. Same is true when I
tried Libre Office as well. I was simply cutting and pasting from the
newsgroup editor and composing my replies in Libre Office. No not
normally necessary, but you get to use the word processor a lot and get
a good feel for it. It pasted just fine. Although when I started to add
my comments, Libre would constantly freeze up.

I could do this under any text editor or word processor I ever tried and
I never had a problem. No I bet this is clearly a problem with Libre
itself. If it was something else like a driver, hardware, or something
else, I would see it in other programs as well.

I am also very good at finding bugs that many people miss. Probably due
to my EE and programming background. I don't know why, but I often catch
a bug even while somebody is using their computer and I say wait, that
wasn't right. And the user totally missed the bug they ran across. Just
not very observant I suppose and too busy clicking on stuff and not
noticing what is happening elsewhere.

And you never had a problem with OO or LO... well that is great for you.
I for one couldn't say that. For example, OO spell checker always said
everything is spelled correctly under Xandros Linux. Uninstalling,
reinstalling, trying different versions and nothing. It just never worked.

And I am not alone with problems. Just do a search and you find tons of
others of having problems too. OO and LO could be the worst office apps
ever created. They are surely the worst ones I ever used.

 

[Stan Brown]

For work. No other email program does the job properly. My business
requires HTML emails and multiple signatures. No other email program
does it properly.

One might argue that any mail client that sends out HTML is _not_
"doing the job properly".