"Useful" gadget.

[Allen Drake]

I should add that I only use cash for gasoline. It's because where I
live, the gas stations charge extra, per gallon, if you use a credit
card. And the extra amount is more than my cash back percent from my
credit card company. I feel this should be illegal, otherwise every
merchant could start doing that.

But, it sure is nice getting a $250 check every couple of months. If a
person is disciplined enough to pay off a balance every month, they
wouldn't ever have to pay any interest. And of course, my credit card
doesn't have any annual fee. : )

I am sure you are in the minority or the CC companies would not be
doing business. But then I don't expect any of the holders to admit
they actually don't pay their bills on time. This type of debt is what
helped bring the economy where it is now.

I don't know how many vendors in my area charge more for CC use but
on occasion I will pick up small items like bottled water at the place
where I get gas and they recently told me I had to purchase $10 or
more so I returned the water to the shelf. I tried it again a week
later and they had discontinued that practice so it seems more use
their debit card then I had imagined.

 

[Allen Drake]

A lesson in the cost of credit cards:

Merely to have a credit card terminal in your store costs a fixed amount
every month. Every transaction costs 3% to 8%. The higher end is to
cover the cash-back costs, the air-miles, the affiliation points, or
whatever. A debit card also costs the merchant a fixed percentage for
every transaction. And there's a transaction fee for paying what you owe
the various credit card companies, because that particular service is no
longer handled by retailer's bank.

Where does that extra cost come from? You guessed it: from the
customers, in the form of higher overhead to be figured into the price.
What we've done with credit/debit cards is to privatise money. You don't
think that would be done for free, do you?

Except the purchase with a debit card is the same price as with cash.

 

[Stan Brown]

What's wrong with that? The merchant has to pay the bank to process
the card. He can offer a discount for cash and still get more than if
you use your credit card.

But it's at least arguable that the merchant makes out better, even
by paying 2% (give or take) for credit-card processing, because with
a credit card most people buy more than they would with cash.

That last statement, by the way, is documented. The book /How We
Decide/ by Jonah Lehrer cites studies that show most people do spend
more with credit cards than they would if they were paying cash. And
of course it's obvious: if you're paying cash it is much harder to
run up large amounts of debt.

 

[Stan Brown]

In many states it is illegal to offer a discount for cash instead of
credit card

Name three, with citations, please.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 11:00:18 -0800, Gene E. Bloch

You just don't get it do you? Where does it say that I don't accept
anything. I am simply stating my stance on how I run my life. You are
the one that can't accept that along with the others that commented
about me being a liar and a troll. I read all links supplied to me in
this thread and understand where most people are about credit cards.
Because I don't use one and have no need to carry cash is what seems
to make most totally bankrupt in this thread, your unwillingness or
inability to get a clue that there is life without credit cards.

QED - in spades.

 

[Bob I]

Name three, with citations, please.

sorta

http://www.creditinfocenter.com/cards/crcd_buy.shtml

Can the merchant charge credit card users more than cash customers for
the same item?
Yes, if the merchant goes about it the right way.

The Federal Truth-in-Lending Act prohibited surcharges on credit card
purchases until 1984; since then, there has been no Federal law on that
subject. (Other provisions of the law are still in force.) The states of
CA, CO, CT, FL, KS, MA, ME, NY, OK, and TX have laws against surcharges,
according to Bankcard Holders of America.

Discover allows surcharges on credit card purchases, except in the above
states. Visa and MasterCard prohibit them. American Express discourages
them in general, and specifically prohibits them by merchants that also
take MasterCard or Visa because Amex doesn't allow merchants to
discriminate against it.

There is a loophole: merchants are allowed to give cash discounts. This
means in practice that they can't charge you more than the labeled price
if you pay by credit card, but they can charge you less if you pay cash.
Some companies announce (usually in tiny print in the catalog) that all
prices "reflect cash discount" of x% so credit card users must pay x%
more than the stated price. This may be legal but it certainly violates
the spirit of the law or the regulations. I don't know about the
"service fee" charged credit card users for things like ordering tickets
over the phone, but they're certainly not allowed to charge you a higher
price in person than if you pay cash.

 

[Wolf K]

Name three, with citations, please.

See Bob I's post. Not being able to add a surcharge for credit purchases
is equivalent to not being able to offer a discount for cash purchases.

Wolf K.

 

[Stan Brown]

sorta

No, not even "sorta", according to your own words:

 

[Stan Brown]

See Bob I's post. Not being able to add a surcharge for credit purchases
is equivalent to not being able to offer a discount for cash purchases.

That's not true. If the posted price is $10, your claim was that
it's illegal charge cash buyers less than $10, and you've failed to
support that. What's accurate is that it's against the Visa and MC
merchant agreements (and illegal in some states) to charge credit-
card purchasers more than $10.

 

[Wolf K]

That's not true.

You don't understand "equivalent", eh? Look, if the total on the CC bill
is $11, and the total on the cash bill is $10, then the cash buyer in
effect got a 9% discount (or thereabouts: add as many decimal points as
you like).

If the posted price is $10, your claim was that
it's illegal charge cash buyers less than $10, and you've failed to
support that. What's accurate is that it's against the Visa and MC
merchant agreements (and illegal in some states) to charge credit-
card purchasers more than $10.

True, and IMO that's in principle illegal. Now please don't obsess about
"illegal." Lawmakers pass a lot of illegal laws (not to mention
unethical, immoral, or biased ones), which is why democracies have
Supreme Courts.

I guess you like to pick nits. Fact is that offering different prices
for cash and CC is illegal in some States. So I phrased it in terms of
discounts. So I made a mistake. So what? It's a technicality. It's the
kind of detail-level error that people make all the time when
illustrating a principle. Only matters in a court of law, which this isn't.

Have a good day,
Wolf K.

 

[Stan Brown]

You don't understand "equivalent", eh?

Indeed I do. But I don't think that word means what you think it
means.

Obviously you're not going to admit you're wrong, so let's drop it.

 

[Wolf K]

Indeed I do. But I don't think that word means what you think it
means.

Obviously you're not going to admit you're wrong, so let's drop it.

Oh, but I did admit I was wrong at the level of illustrative detail.
Just not on the principle. In the part you snipped, actually. Maybe you
didn't even read that part.

Have a good day,
Wolf K.

 

[Tim Slattery]

Anybody know what exactly is the information on the 'magnetic strip'
on a credit card, is it more than just the CC number and Security
Code?

It must have the cardholder's name, otherwise it wouldn't work to
swipe it in the machine at the airport to bring up your flight
reservation information.

 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Anybody know what exactly is the information on the 'magnetic strip'
on a credit card, is it more than just the CC number and Security
Code?

It actually does not contain the CVV code. Here is the track spec:

*** Track 1 Layout: ***

| SS | FC | PAN | Name | FS | Additional Data | ES
| LRC |

SS=Start Sentinel "%"
FC=Format Code
PAN=Primary Acct. # (19 digits max)
FS=Field Separator "^"
Name=26 alphanumeric characters max.
Additional Data=Expiration Date, offset, encrypted PIN, etc.
ES=End Sentinel "?"
LRC=Longitudinal Redundancy Check


*** Track 2 Layout: ***

| SS | PAN | FS | Additional Data | ES | LRC |

SS=Start Sentinel ";"
PAN=Primary Acct. # (19 digits max)
FS=Field Separator "="
Additional Data=Expiration Date, offset, encrypted PIN, etc.
ES=End Sentinel "?"
LRC=Longitudinal Redundancy Check


*** Track 3 Layout: ** Similar to tracks 1 and 2. Almost never
used.
Many different data standards used.

 

[John Williamson]

It must have the cardholder's name, otherwise it wouldn't work to
swipe it in the machine at the airport to bring up your flight
reservation information.

http://money.howstuffworks.com/personal-finance/debt-management/magnetic-stripe-credit-card1.htm

Describes what the two main magnetic tracks on the stripe hold. There is
a third track, which holds such things as the encrypted PIN, maximum
authorised amount, currency, and son on, but no customer name. The third
track is not in a standard format, anyway.

Similar information is encoded onto the chip in chip and PIN cards.

The user's name in the case given will have been retrieved from the
booking database for an existing booking which is linked to that card.
The name that comes up is normally the name of the person travelling,
which may not be the name on the card.

For a new transaction, the user's name normally has to be entered
manually, unless the cardholder already has an account, in which case
the airline or trader will already know the name, the transaction
history and card details for that account. They may also know the
security number on the back of the card, but daren't admit it.

 

[Brian Matthews]

What's wrong with that? The merchant has to pay the bank to process
the card. He can offer a discount for cash and still get more than if
you use your credit card.

But the gas stations around here charge more than the credit card
companies charge them. I think it's about an extra dime per gallon.
They're making extra money off of people who use a charge card. And
other stores don't do that, only the gas stations.

 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

http://money.howstuffworks.com/personal-finance/debt-management/magnetic-stripe-credit-card1.htm

Describes what the two main magnetic tracks on the stripe hold.
There is a third track, which holds such things as the encrypted
PIN, maximum authorised amount, currency, and son on, but no
customer name. The third track is not in a standard format, anyway.

I may be misunderstanding what you are saying, but the cardholder name
is on the magnetic stripe - it is just in track one instead of track
three.

--
Zaphod

Arthur Dent, speaking to Trillian about Zaphod:
"So, two heads is what does it for a girl?"
"...Anything else he's got two of?"

 

[John Williamson]

I may be misunderstanding what you are saying, but the cardholder name
is on the magnetic stripe - it is just in track one instead of track
three.

It is, but is the name that comes up on the screen exactly the name on
the front of the card, or the name held on the booking database?

On the last occasion I flew anywhere, I was greeted by my real name, not
the name on the card, which was a company credit card.

 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

It is, but is the name that comes up on the screen exactly the name
on the front of the card, or the name held on the booking database?

On the last occasion I flew anywhere, I was greeted by my real name,
not the name on the card, which was a company credit card.

I imagine it depends on the screen you are talking about. In the case
of the airline reservation system, it would be the name the
reservation was made under. In the case of a randomly selected credit
card clearing system that had no other knowledge save the credit card
being swiped, it would be the cardholder name, which should match the
name on the front of the card (at least for personal cards, I don't
really know much about corporate cards but I suspect they are the same
as well).

 

[Wolf K]

Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote: [...]

I may be misunderstanding what you are saying, but the cardholder name
is on the magnetic stripe - it is just in track one instead of track
three.

It is, but is the name that comes up on the screen exactly the name on
the front of the card, or the name held on the booking database?

On the last occasion I flew anywhere, I was greeted by my real name, not
the name on the card, which was a company credit card.

If the flight was booked for you, then whatever card was used to pay for
it is linked to that transaction, and therefore linked to your name.
(And maybe your shoe-size, too...;-0)

Wolf K.