Outlook express

[Gene E. Bloch]

On 10/10/2011 19:52, Ken Blake wrote:
On 10/10/2011 18:13, Ken Blake wrote:
On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 09:26:21 +0100, Andy Burns

Ken Blake wrote:

I personally use [...] Fort? Agent for newsgroups
^^^
Did you mean to post using a Russian character set?


No. Did I? I don't see it in the quote above.


But I do, and I know why. You used Cyrillic character encoding.


Perhaps I did by accident. I didn't know I did it.


Hi Ken.

Something has gone wrong with your Forte newsmail settings. Not only
have you got character encoding set to Cyrillic, but the text size has
gone really small.
Most people have their mail programs set to reply using settings of post
being replied to, and that's what's happened here.
But it started with your post about 5 above in direct reply to Jeff T,
whose was in Unicode. All following from you (including this one too)
have simply picked up on the settings you introduced.

Ken's language settings for this group are inappropriate for this group. He
needs to adjust the settings for posting in English groups.

I think what happened is that I replied to a message using Cyrillic
and picked up those settings in this thread. Do you see any other
threads in which I'm posting in Cyrillic?

You very often, over a long span of time, have displayed Forté as Fortй.
Or else it was one or more other people

Now everyone will see what I just typed as nonsense, unless their
newsreaders show the characters OK.

The first forte above ends with an e with an acute accent.
The second forte above ends with an i-kratkoe, a short i in Cyrillic. It
looks like a backwards 'N' with a little curved line on top.

Anyway, trying to change the body charset in those posts to ISO_8859_15
and an occasional other charset never produced the right character for
me, so I decided to ignore it.

 

[Nil]

(Wow, is Pegasus still going? Under 7?)

Sure is! Pegasus works perfectly in all versions of Windows, and it's
my email agent of choice. I'll give that one up when they pry it from
my cold, dead hard disk.

 

[Chet]

One of the *worst* things they did.



To tell the truth, I'm surprised that they left the newsreader in, but
made it worse. It makes no sense to me.

I certainly agree, I was very disappointed. I may not post often but
have read many groups faithfully for 15+ years and greatly prefer
newsgroups over forums. Most of what I know about computers and
Windows came from newsgroups.

When the MS servers went away I started following Answers but used
an NNTP bridge (MS then Codeplex) until changes were made so the
bridge didn't work properly.

 

[VanguardLH]

Is Pegasus still going? Under 7?

Yeah, as I recall the author made an announcement that they weren't
going to do any further development of Pegasus Mail (that was around a
year ago) and yet there were more releases with the latest one this
September.

Eudora OSE is a fully-working version that works under 7. (It's actually
a disguised version of Thunderbird, but tweaked to look - and behave
somewhat, I think possibly including some keyboard shortcuts - like
Eudora "classic".)

I thought it was Eudora that died but someone peeled its skin of its
dead corpse and drapped it onto another body (Buffalo Bill mode,
"Silence of the Lambs"). Eudora went free and open source
(https://wiki.mozilla.org/Eudora_OSE). It's Thunderbird with a Eudora
Classic skin.

It's been many years since I last looked at Eudora (the original) and
decided it was to featureless and dumped it. I wonder if it remained
just as minimalistic in its Thunderbird incarnation. User reviews say
NOT to install Eudora OSE if Thunderbird is already/still installed as
Thunderbird gets "eaten up" (disappears or no longer functions).

 

[Ed Cryer]

in<[email protected]>

On 10/10/2011 19:52, Ken Blake wrote:
On 10/10/2011 18:13, Ken Blake wrote:
On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 09:26:21 +0100, Andy Burns

Ken Blake wrote:

I personally use [...] Fort? Agent for newsgroups
^^^
Did you mean to post using a Russian character set?


No. Did I? I don't see it in the quote above.


But I do, and I know why. You used Cyrillic character encoding.


Perhaps I did by accident. I didn't know I did it.


Hi Ken.

Something has gone wrong with your Forte newsmail settings. Not only
have you got character encoding set to Cyrillic, but the text size has
gone really small.
Most people have their mail programs set to reply using settings of post
being replied to, and that's what's happened here.
But it started with your post about 5 above in direct reply to Jeff T,
whose was in Unicode. All following from you (including this one too)
have simply picked up on the settings you introduced.

Ken's language settings for this group are inappropriate for this group. He
needs to adjust the settings for posting in English groups.

I think what happened is that I replied to a message using Cyrillic
and picked up those settings in this thread. Do you see any other
threads in which I'm posting in Cyrillic?

You very often, over a long span of time, have displayed Forté as Fortй.
Or else it was one or more other people

Now everyone will see what I just typed as nonsense, unless their
newsreaders show the characters OK.

The first forte above ends with an e with an acute accent.
The second forte above ends with an i-kratkoe, a short i in Cyrillic. It
looks like a backwards 'N' with a little curved line on top.

Anyway, trying to change the body charset in those posts to ISO_8859_15
and an occasional other charset never produced the right character for
me, so I decided to ignore it.

Right.

What do you reckon? Should I set my newsreader to;
1. Always use Unicode?
2. Reply using poster's format.

I've always used the latter, because that will bring in any specific
characters that the poster wants. But, there again, it just propagates
the settings if used accidentally.

Ed

 

[XS11E]

(Wow, is Pegasus still going? Under 7?)

Sure is, I've been using it ever since I dumped T'Burp and went back to
Pegasus.

Eudora OSE is a fully-working version that works under 7. (It's
actually a disguised version of Thunderbird, but tweaked to look -
and behave somewhat, I think possibly including some keyboard
shortcuts - like Eudora "classic".)

It's pretty horrible, much worse than just using T'burp w/o the Eudora
overlay.

The original Eudora is still around and works just fine in Windows 7
plus you get the paid edition for free now since Qualcom has released
it.

http://www.eudora.com/archive.html

 

[Ken Blake]

I certainly agree, I was very disappointed. I may not post often but
have read many groups faithfully for 15+ years and greatly prefer
newsgroups over forums.

Me too.

Most of what I know about computers and
Windows came from newsgroups.

I won't say "most," but I certainly learned a lot from others in
newsgroups.

When the MS servers went away I started following Answers but used
an NNTP bridge (MS then Codeplex) until changes were made so the
bridge didn't work properly.

Me too.

 

[Ken Blake]

in <[email protected]>

On 10/10/2011 19:52, Ken Blake wrote:
On 10/10/2011 18:13, Ken Blake wrote:
On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 09:26:21 +0100, Andy Burns

Ken Blake wrote:

I personally use [...] Fort? Agent for newsgroups
^^^
Did you mean to post using a Russian character set?


No. Did I? I don't see it in the quote above.


But I do, and I know why. You used Cyrillic character encoding.


Perhaps I did by accident. I didn't know I did it.


Hi Ken.

Something has gone wrong with your Forte newsmail settings. Not only
have you got character encoding set to Cyrillic, but the text size has
gone really small.
Most people have their mail programs set to reply using settings of post
being replied to, and that's what's happened here.
But it started with your post about 5 above in direct reply to Jeff T,
whose was in Unicode. All following from you (including this one too)
have simply picked up on the settings you introduced.

Ken's language settings for this group are inappropriate for this group. He
needs to adjust the settings for posting in English groups.

I think what happened is that I replied to a message using Cyrillic
and picked up those settings in this thread. Do you see any other
threads in which I'm posting in Cyrillic?

You very often, over a long span of time, have displayed Fort? as FortÊ.
Or else it was one or more other people

Beats me how that's happening. Do you (or anyone else) have any
suggestions?

 

[Ken Blake]

Sure is! Pegasus works perfectly in all versions of Windows, and it's
my email agent of choice. I'll give that one up when they pry it from
my cold, dead hard disk.

I used to use Pegasus, and liked it a lot. But it was so long ago that
I switched to Outlook that I've forgotten what it was like.

 

[Jake]

Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

If Agent isn't set for that char set, is eternal-september converting
it?

 

[Nil]

Yeah, as I recall the author made an announcement that they
weren't going to do any further development of Pegasus Mail (that
was around a year ago) and yet there were more releases with the
latest one this September.

It was longer ago than that, more like 2006. The author, David Harris
seemed to be having money problems and was becoming very discouraged,
and he threatened to stop development of Pegasus and his mail server
Mercury if things didn't change. Maybe he got past that crisis because
he seems to be continuing work on the programs with renewed enthusiasm.

I love Pegasus mail. It has great filtering features, and it's the one
mail program that I've found that doesn't rely on that damn 3-pane view
that I find so inconvenient.

 

[Char Jackson]

On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 18:01:02 -0400, Carroll Robbins

in <[email protected]>

On 10/10/2011 19:52, Ken Blake wrote:
On 10/10/2011 18:13, Ken Blake wrote:
On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 09:26:21 +0100, Andy Burns

Ken Blake wrote:

I personally use [...] Fort? Agent for newsgroups
^^^
Did you mean to post using a Russian character set?


No. Did I? I don't see it in the quote above.


But I do, and I know why. You used Cyrillic character encoding.


Perhaps I did by accident. I didn't know I did it.


Hi Ken.

Something has gone wrong with your Forte newsmail settings. Not only
have you got character encoding set to Cyrillic, but the text size has
gone really small.
Most people have their mail programs set to reply using settings of post
being replied to, and that's what's happened here.
But it started with your post about 5 above in direct reply to Jeff T,
whose was in Unicode. All following from you (including this one too)
have simply picked up on the settings you introduced.

Ken's language settings for this group are inappropriate for this group. He
needs to adjust the settings for posting in English groups.

I think what happened is that I replied to a message using Cyrillic
and picked up those settings in this thread. Do you see any other
threads in which I'm posting in Cyrillic?

You very often, over a long span of time, have displayed Fort? as FortÊ.
Or else it was one or more other people

Beats me how that's happening. Do you (or anyone else) have any
suggestions?

You're using Agent 6.0 and you're posting using the KOI8-R charset,
which covers Russian (Cyrillic alphabet). I use an older version of
Agent (v2.0) and use the us-ascii charset. I don't have any problems
with your post, (probably since I don't "pick up" your settings), nor
have I had any problems that I know of with anyone else's posts. I
only read & post to English groups, though, so that may be a
difference between us. Still, I assume Agent can be configured to use
charsets on a per-group basis, so you could use something more
appropriate in this group and save the KOI8-R for your Russian groups.

Here are some of your relevant message headers from the post I'm
replying to:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: mx04.eternal-september.org;
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 6.00/32.1186

 

[Char Jackson]

I love Pegasus mail. It has great filtering features, and it's the one
mail program that I've found that doesn't rely on that damn 3-pane view
that I find so inconvenient.

Outlook (at least the 2003 version and I suspect the others are the
same) is another email client "that doesn't rely on that damn 3-pane
view", although that's exactly how I like it and have it configured.

 

[Nil]

Outlook (at least the 2003 version and I suspect the others are
the same) is another email client "that doesn't rely on that damn
3-pane view", although that's exactly how I like it and have it
configured.

I have Outlook 2003, and that might be my next choice if I couldn't use
Pegasus. But I've been using Pegasus since the mid '90s and it fits me
like a comfortable old pair of shoes. I also like the idea of using an
excellent, free, non-Microsoft solution.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 18:01:02 -0400, Carroll Robbins

in<[email protected]>

On 10/10/2011 19:52, Ken Blake wrote:
On 10/10/2011 18:13, Ken Blake wrote:
On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 09:26:21 +0100, Andy Burns

Ken Blake wrote:

I personally use [...] Fort? Agent for newsgroups
^^^
Did you mean to post using a Russian character set?


No. Did I? I don't see it in the quote above.


But I do, and I know why. You used Cyrillic character encoding.


Perhaps I did by accident. I didn't know I did it.


Hi Ken.

Something has gone wrong with your Forte newsmail settings. Not only
have you got character encoding set to Cyrillic, but the text size has
gone really small.
Most people have their mail programs set to reply using settings of post
being replied to, and that's what's happened here.
But it started with your post about 5 above in direct reply to Jeff T,
whose was in Unicode. All following from you (including this one too)
have simply picked up on the settings you introduced.

Ken's language settings for this group are inappropriate for this group. He
needs to adjust the settings for posting in English groups.

I think what happened is that I replied to a message using Cyrillic
and picked up those settings in this thread. Do you see any other
threads in which I'm posting in Cyrillic?

You very often, over a long span of time, have displayed Forté as Fortй.
Or else it was one or more other people

Now everyone will see what I just typed as nonsense, unless their
newsreaders show the characters OK.

The first forte above ends with an e with an acute accent.
The second forte above ends with an i-kratkoe, a short i in Cyrillic. It
looks like a backwards 'N' with a little curved line on top.

Anyway, trying to change the body charset in those posts to ISO_8859_15
and an occasional other charset never produced the right character for
me, so I decided to ignore it.

Ken is posting in plain text as others in this group are doing. They are
not controlling the size of the displayed text, your newsreader is. If the
characters are too small you need to adjust the settings in your
newsreader. They are not small in my newsreader.

Right.

What do you reckon? Should I set my newsreader to;
1. Always use Unicode?
2. Reply using poster's format.

I've always used the latter, because that will bring in any specific
characters that the poster wants. But, there again, it just propagates
the settings if used accidentally.

Ed

I think I agree with you, but I haven't thought about if for a while. I
don't really remember how I set it up, but Dialog seems to do fine with
most posts, even in Cyrillic newsgroups.

I will manually change an individual post's charset when I can't read
it, but that's usually because of the font being too small and jaggy for
these eyes. The latter happens with posts by someone named Dominique,
among others. Other oddities happen with Jeff Relf, who marches (in
another newsgroup) to his own drummer.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Beats me how that's happening. Do you (or anyone else) have any
suggestions?

I don't, but Char Jackson seems to have noticed something

 

[Ken Blake]

You're using Agent 6.0 and you're posting using the KOI8-R charset,
which covers Russian (Cyrillic alphabet). I use an older version of
Agent (v2.0) and use the us-ascii charset. I don't have any problems
with your post, (probably since I don't "pick up" your settings), nor
have I had any problems that I know of with anyone else's posts. I
only read & post to English groups, though, so that may be a
difference between us. Still, I assume Agent can be configured to use
charsets on a per-group basis, so you could use something more
appropriate in this group and save the KOI8-R for your Russian groups.

Here are some of your relevant message headers from the post I'm
replying to:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: mx04.eternal-september.org;
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 6.00/32.1186

Two points:

1. Yes, I just checked the header of the message you replied to and I
see the same thing. But when I check the headers of my messages in
other threads, I see

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Clearly, what has happened is that I inadvertently replied to an
earlier message in this thread, and chose to use the same charset as
the message I replied to. It isn't happening in other threads, and I'm
not going to worry about it; I'll just let the thread die out, and in
the future, be more careful not to choose to use the charset of the
message I reply to.

2. I don't participate in any Russian newsgroups; I know only about
half a dozen words of Russian--mostly words like "nyet" and "spasibo."

But I do know the Cyrillic alphabet. Back many years ago, when I was
an active tournament chess player, I used to get the Russian chess
magazine, Shakmaty. I couldn't read any text, but wanted to follow the
moves of the games they printed. The moves were pretty much
international, but I needed to learn Cyrillic so I could read the
names of the players.

 

[Bill Bradshaw]

I run it out of WinXP Mode with OE-Quotefix. I have icon on my Windows
7 desktop that I click and there comes my OE. I am not going to give it
up.

 

[blank]

On XP, I still use Outlook 2000, which was part of my well-used and loved
Ofice2000.

If I later change to Windows 7 presumably I will have to buy Office 2010?
and there will be a Mail/News client with that?

Alternatively, anyone successfully using Office 2000 with Windows 7?

 

[Bruce Hagen]

On XP, I still use Outlook 2000, which was part of my well-used and
loved Ofice2000.

If I later change to Windows 7 presumably I will have to buy Office
2010? and there will be a Mail/News client with that?

Alternatively, anyone successfully using Office 2000 with Windows 7?

Office 2003 and newer are the only fully compatible Office programs that
work with Win7. All Office programs include Outlook.