E
Ed Cryer
That kid's good and no doubt will get better, but I can certainly tellSince you obviously like organ music and Bach, have a listen to this...Well, I may be lying to myself, because I can tell the differenceOn 15/11/2011 18:58, Mack A. Damia wrote:
On 15/11/2011 13:12, Ed Cryer wrote:
On 14/11/2011 23:09, choro wrote:
On 14/11/2011 19:21, Ed Cryer wrote:
On 14/11/2011 15:39, choro wrote:
On 14/11/2011 12:17, Ed Cryer wrote:
On 14/11/2011 11:56, choro wrote:
On 14/11/2011 09:28, John M Ward wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 08:43:39 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
In message<[email protected]>, John M Ward
[]
I am in the USA.
Well, no-one's perfect)
As for the pronunciation of "route", here in the language's
country
of origin in rhymes with root rather than rout, though it
is hard
to say which is better or whether one is right and the other
wrong.
I'm in England too, but we shouldn't be smug: just because
it came
from here, no reason to assume pronunciation - or grammar, or
anything else - has remained unchanged here but changed in
USA,
rather than vice versa! (Compare "gotten".)
[I tend to think our "root" pronunciation is correct as it
matches
the French which I think is the origin. BICBW.]
The pronunciation of "route" is discussed from time to time in
alt.usage.english. Both the "oo" and "ow" pronunciations
are used
for
"route" in the US.
Yes, I've noticed that, and with the letter zed (or zee).
I think it was the last time we discussed it there that I
had just
watched an American movie on TV and had noticed in a scene
in which
two characters were discussing how to get somewhere that
one used
the
"ow" sound and the other the "oo".
I've spotted this too, including in Stargate Atlantis where
UK-born
actor David Hewlett plays a Canadian: apparently the
Canadians have
pronunciations more like ours than the USians so this was a
kind of
get-out for Dr McKay's "Zep Pee Em" (Zero Point Module).
Since you two have gone way off the subject, how about
changing it
yet
again and going into the definition of the words "eroticism" and
"pornography" and the merits and/or demerits of both.
Is or rather was Anais Nin a writer of erotography or
pornography?
Forget about "route" vs "rout" and "Zet" versus "Zee"!
And what do I see? This conversation is also being carried on
in the
group "alt.possessive.its.has.no.apostrophe"!
My God, what is the world coming to? I learned English as a
foreign
language in my teens and I never thought that I'd see a
Usenet group
dedicated to "Its" vs "It's". Don't they teach you that the
apostrophe
is there to indicate a contraction of the full expression? They
didn't
teach me either but I just added two and two together to
arrive at
the
following logical conclusion.
Let's see... "It's" is the shortened version of "It is" or "It
has" or
some such other expression and "didn't" is a shortened
version of
"did
not", while in, for example, "The boy's thingie" is a
contraction for
"The thingie of the boy"... ;-)
But bear all this in mind with the *caveat* that "its" has *no*
apostrophe if it can simply be replaced by any of the words
in the
set
*my/your/his/her/its/our/your/their*. An example would be:
"Its size
is..." where "Its" can be replaced with "His/Her size is...".
Get
it?!
Though I never saw this subject explained so succinctly and so
clearly
in any textbook, I am afraid! But talking to an English language
teacher
who was himself English, the foremost authority on the English
language
is a Dutchman! There we have it in a nutshell! No,
unfortunately I am
not that Dutchman. Not even Dutch!
Oh, I never told you that in my younger days I was a teacher of
English
as a foreign language to teenagers for a couple of years until I
gave up
teaching over poor pay. That was over half a century ago, but
what
is it
they say. "Once a teacher, always a teacher"!
And once the boys and girls I used to teach got this concept
of the
apostrophe being there to stand for an abbreviation, they
didn't make
any such stupid mistakes any more.
-- choro
If only it were that simple and straight-forward!! But it isn't.
Look at the apostrophies in these two sentences;
It's the boy's book.
It isn't the boys' book.
You'll see where an apostrophy doesn't signify a contraction
but a
possessive genitive derived from Germanic genitive case.
Ed's very own contribution to "its" and "it's".
You are right, you b****rd! ;-)
I knew I had boo-booed somewhere! But still what did I say?...
"But bear all this in mind with the *caveat* that "its" has *no*
apostrophe if it can simply be replaced by any of the words in
the set
*my/your/his/her/its/our/your/their*. An example would be: "Its
size
is..." where "Its" can be replaced with "His/Her size is...".
Get it?!"
I am talking only about "Its" here and in your example the word
"boy/s"
(not Its or Their) in "The boy's thingie..." and "The boys'
thingie..."
fall outside this *"Its Caveat"*!
And besides using such terms as "possessive genitive" only
confuses the
average person or student. Keep it simple, as says my old
classmate who
has made a billion! Why complicate things?
Do you have to understand the laws of chemistry to fry an egg
or indeed
to boil one?
Ah, but boiling an egg is an art in itself!!! Or do you want to
approach
the problem through understanding exactly what happens when you
boil an
egg? Just boil the bloody thing!
I remember my ex jumping into the garden when she tried frying
an egg
for the very first time for me! Apparently she used to get the
oil so
hot that the egg spluttered wildly when she broke it into the
frying
pan! Stupid bitch!
-- choro
No no, you shouldn't investigate things too deeply. It drives
some nuts
and it brings little benefit to humanity. We should all go back
to an
agrarian economy, believe in a flat earth and the geocentric map
of the
solar system. We certainly shouldn't go running through the
streets of a
city in the nude crying "Eureka" like Archimedes.
Let sleeping dogs lie. Draco dormiens non est titillandus.
Some nutters even discuss the plural of acronyms; whether they
should
have an apostrophe or not.
Is it "CDs" or "CD's"?
I think these plagues of the earth should be hanged, drawn and
quartered, as was William Wallace for trying to liberate them there
Celtic Scots.
Ed the stepping-stone (Nemo me impune lacessit)
Well said. But the plural of CD is surely CDs and not CD's. ;-)
I try to stick to this rule wherever possible but one day I was
dealing
with another acronym and felt that I had no option but to use the
damned
apostrophe! I'll be damned if I can now recall which acronym it was.
Such is life! I am right at this moment listening to and partly
watching
the New Year Day's Concert of 1989 with the VPO under Carlos
Kleiber! An
unbeatable combination. Absolutely *bootiful*; all 1 hour and 42
minutes
of it, courtesy of some nutter who has got nothing better to do
than to
make available the video of the full concert on YouTube! Bloody good
sound as well as fairly good cinematic definition, actually.
-- choro
It is quite staggering just how much you can get on youtube.
There's a
famous 1975 recording of the Vienna Phil under Carlos K playing
Beethoven's 5th symphony. There are tens and tens of rips from the
vinyl
original on youtube.
I take it all in good part. I look at it this way; it's not so much
people with nothing better to do, but people wanting to share with
the
world the things that have helped and inspired them; and that is a
filip
to philanthropy and loving thy neighbour.
Ed
You are right again both about the staggering amount of material on
YouTube as well about people wanting to share with other like-minded
people the things that give them joy. For we get the greatest joy in
life by giving and by sharing. I'll never forget the joy I got when I
gave a girl I know a watch I had foolishly bought on eBay. I didn't
need
a watch, in any case. It was a nice two tone unisex watch and at first
she didn't want to accept it. But I could see that she liked it and
I'll
never forget the joy in her eyes when she finally decided to accept it
as a no strings attached present from me. I could understand why at
first she did not want to accept it considering the yawning age gap
between us, and the fact that I had given her nice presents before. We
were both aware of the attraction between us and I guess she wanted to
keep some distance due to the age gap between us, which is perfectly
understandable. But seeing the joy in her eyes when she finally
accepted
it when I stressed that it was a no strings attached present, made my
day. I was over the moon with the joy of giving, or sharing. We have
been good friends for several years now and our relationship is
going to
remain like that.
And that recording of Beethoven's 5th that you mention is probably the
very best rendition of that oeuvre ever. I first listened to that CD
years ago when it came to my notice at the local library. Listening to
it on some decent speakers at home was an eye (and ear) opener for me.
Mind you, the VPO is definitely one of the finest, if not the finest,
orchestras in the world. And under a conductor like Carlos Kleiber
they
are simply out of this world.
-- choro
I do have to say, though, that I think it takes an extremely
well-tuned ear to hear the subtle differences among the greats.
I guess you are right. It is the same with being a restaurant critic,
for example. Interest, experience all come in. I remember listening to
some piano work played by a famous player who shall remain nameless. As
it happened, I had a friend who is a world class classical guitarist
whose wife happened to be quite a good professional pianist. And my
guitarist friend recommended that I listen to the George Bolet version
of the same work and of course I took his advice and bought the George
Bolet version. And as soon as I put the disc in the CD player, I could
hear the difference. And because I was familiar with the work the
difference was glaring. I guess I have the benefit of an education in
music even though I did not become a professional musician but I still
have the benefit of a pair of trained ears.
-- choro
between an orchestra just playing the notes (going through the
motions) as opposed to an orchestra actually playing and feeling the
musical work. - but among the "greats", it can be difficult. I can
tell the difference between, say, E. Power Biggs who, I believe
captured the soul of Bach and somebody such as Virgil Fox (was he more
of a "pop-organist?).
But I envy you with your education in music, and you probably play an
instrument. I am in constant awe of those composers who think in
terms of beautiful music. I just can't imagine how it is done. I
think heard somebody (it may have been McCartney) say that it's like
an earworm you wake up with - except it's a new work of art.
Amazing for a boy his age!
Also listen to the following...
...and here is a truly great artist playing the same Bach Toccata and
Fugue...
E. Power Biggs on the Pedal Harpsichord...absolutely amazing... not only
the playing but also the quality of the sound and the quality of the
recording...
And the other chap you mention? Virgil Fox? Did a YouTube search and
tried to listen to some of his stuff... well, I tried! Honestly I did
and you know what went through my mind: Oh, God!!! How awful!!!!
For a moment I thought I was having a nightmare as I recalled the
"pianist" Liberace!
But you know, these, I won't even call them second rate artists, *do*
serve a useful purpose if only to make us appreciate truly great artists
when we hear them! But one thing we mustn't do is not to get confused by
expressions such as "popular" or so-called "famous" artists as opposed
to truly great masters.
Composing of course is a great art. I doubt that works are just inspired
in a jiffy. It doesn't work out like that. If you read about Beethoven
you will note that he used to have a book in which he would scribble
tunes as they came to his head. Tunes are the building blocks of any
musical work. But they are only the start. The edifice is constructed
around such inspired tunes. Not everything that passes for music these
days is music. Good sound track material may be, but not music.
-- choro
the difference between him and Richter.
Richter's more than technically good; he puts far more feeling into the
piece. It has a drama about it and a more cut and clipped feel than the
kid's.
Talking of musical prodigies (no, not Mozart, who I understand used to
produce whole scores for symphonies with hardly any crossings-out, as if
they came finished out of his head) look at this Greek boy on a
bouzouki. He looks not long out of a pram.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TMGARku0iA
Ed