Windows 7 Updates

H

hot-totty

Stan Brown wrote:
well.
Thanks for the (implied) suggestion -- I have added him to mine also.
So you make up your mind when somebody makes a stupid judgement about
another person. Have you been like this all your life? Don't you think
you should learn to use your brain?
 
E

Ed Cryer

Dave-UK said:
As it seemed to be a UK\USA problem I tried moving the htable.xsl file
from here:
C:\Windows\System32\wbem\en-US\htable.xsl
to here:
C:\Windows\System32\wbem\htable.xsl
and it now works ok.
(I also edited it to make the file easier to find.) WMIC QFE LIST FULL
/FORMAT:HTABLE > c:\users\admin\desktop\HOTFIX.HTM
That works here too.
It makes me wonder how many other such problems there might be between
UK/USA versions.

Ed
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

Stan Brown wrote:
well.
So you make up your mind when somebody makes a stupid judgement about
another person. Have you been like this all your life? Don't you think
you should learn to use your brain?
He has learned to use it, and he did use it in this case.
 
D

Dave-UK

Ed Cryer said:
That works here too.
It makes me wonder how many other such problems there might be between UK/USA versions.

Ed
I've just tried a little experiment.
I did a clean install of Win7 Pro SP1 leaving the default settings, i.e. US location, Time Zone(UTC -08.00) Pacific
Time, etc.
I then ran:
WMIC QFE LIST FULL /FORMAT:HTABLE > c:\users\admin\desktop\HOTFIX.HTM
and it worked ok.
I then went into Control Panel > Region and Language and on the Location tab changed from US to UK.
Rebooted and the code ran ok.
I then changed the input language and keyboard from US to UK and removed the US keyboard.
Now the line of code fails with the 'Invalid XSL format (or) file name' error.
It looks like a bug in Windows 7 somewhere.
 
E

Ed Cryer

Dave-UK said:
I've just tried a little experiment.
I did a clean install of Win7 Pro SP1 leaving the default settings, i.e.
US location, Time Zone(UTC -08.00) Pacific Time, etc.
I then ran:
WMIC QFE LIST FULL /FORMAT:HTABLE > c:\users\admin\desktop\HOTFIX.HTM
and it worked ok.
I then went into Control Panel > Region and Language and on the Location
tab changed from US to UK.
Rebooted and the code ran ok.
I then changed the input language and keyboard from US to UK and removed
the US keyboard.
Now the line of code fails with the 'Invalid XSL format (or) file name'
error.
It looks like a bug in Windows 7 somewhere.
Well done! That's a lot of time and effort, and it's proved productive.
I have a feeling we aught to let MS know. It'll probably be in Win8.

Ed
 
E

Ed Cryer

Char said:
Just change %TEMP% to something more reasonable. That was the first
change I made when I played with it.
If you'd done as much system testing as I have on large-scale govt
systems, you'd have learnt not to tinker with the test-beds. Only change
required bits, bits that have failed; otherwise you can easily throw in
new bugs that'll compound the issue.

I just kept open the relevant folder in Win Explorer, ran the test,
looked in Explorer after clicking on back/ forward arrows.

Ed
 
D

Dave \Crash\ Dummy

Dave-UK said:
Apparently there's a bug in Windows 7 because when I run this: WMIC
QFE LIST FULL /FORMAT:HTABLE > %TEMP%\HOTFIX.HTM I get this error:
'Invalid XSL format (or) file name' A possible fix is listed here:
http://www.ctkn.net/tag/invalid-xsl-format-or-file-name/ Although,
even when I've copied the xsl files over, I still get the error.
May or may not apply here, but if there is a space anywhere in the
%TEMP% path, like in the username, the command as written will fail.
Either direct the output to a known, space free, target, or enclose the
target path in quotes. Examples:

WMIC QFE LIST FULL /FORMAT:HTABLE > c:\windows\temp\HOTFIX.HTM
WMIC QFE LIST FULL /FORMAT:HTABLE > "%TEMP%\HOTFIX.HTM"
 
D

Dave-UK

Dave "Crash" Dummy said:
May or may not apply here, but if there is a space anywhere in the
%TEMP% path, like in the username, the command as written will fail.
Either direct the output to a known, space free, target, or enclose the
target path in quotes. Examples:

WMIC QFE LIST FULL /FORMAT:HTABLE > c:\windows\temp\HOTFIX.HTM
WMIC QFE LIST FULL /FORMAT:HTABLE > "%TEMP%\HOTFIX.HTM"
You are probably right about having spaces in the %TEMP% path causing problems but on
this occasion the problem appears to be due to not having the default US language and keyboard.
See my reply to Ed Cryer in this thread.
 
C

Char Jackson

If you'd done as much system testing as I have on large-scale govt
systems, you'd have learnt not to tinker with the test-beds. Only change
required bits, bits that have failed; otherwise you can easily throw in
new bugs that'll compound the issue.
Rubbish. Even if you don't have a deep understanding of what the full
command string is doing, specifically the redirection part, you can
always ask for assistance or clarification. Redirection has been
around for a very long time. It comes in very handy and is well worth
learning.
 
E

Ed Cryer

Char said:
Rubbish. Even if you don't have a deep understanding of what the full
command string is doing, specifically the redirection part, you can
always ask for assistance or clarification. Redirection has been
around for a very long time. It comes in very handy and is well worth
learning.
This looks like some kind of role-reversal, Char. I'm the one preaching
conservative caution; you're all for having fun.

For me it's a question of situation. At work caution; tax payers' money,
my livelihood at stake. At home on my own personal computers, I have fun
and love experimenting; and it's my neck (and no one else's) on the
block if it blows up.

I always thought that you were in the former situation, playing the
father-figure to clients with little computer literacy.

Ed
 
C

Char Jackson

This looks like some kind of role-reversal, Char. I'm the one preaching
conservative caution; you're all for having fun.

For me it's a question of situation. At work caution; tax payers' money,
my livelihood at stake. At home on my own personal computers, I have fun
and love experimenting; and it's my neck (and no one else's) on the
block if it blows up.
If you're unfamiliar with the concept of redirecting output from
stdout to a path\filename, by all means open a Command Prompt and play
with something as innocuous as the dir command. Within reason, you
won't hurt anything. Don't specify as the target an existing file,
especially a system file, but other than that go nuts and have fun.
You won't blow anything up.
I always thought that you were in the former situation, playing the
father-figure to clients with little computer literacy.
Role reversal? Having fun? Father figure? What a strange post. I have
no idea what any of it means, but I think almost anyone should be able
to change a path spec and not have to worry about it.

Back to the command string above...did you try changing other aspects
of the command's arguments? There are lots of options available that
control what gets reported and how the report is formatted. Use the
standard /? sequence to see what I mean.
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

If you're unfamiliar with the concept of redirecting output from
stdout to a path\filename, by all means open a Command Prompt and play
with something as innocuous as the dir command. Within reason, you
won't hurt anything. Don't specify as the target an existing file,
especially a system file, but other than that go nuts and have fun.
You won't blow anything up.


Role reversal? Having fun? Father figure? What a strange post. I have
no idea what any of it means, but I think almost anyone should be able
to change a path spec and not have to worry about it.

Back to the command string above...did you try changing other aspects
of the command's arguments? There are lots of options available that
control what gets reported and how the report is formatted. Use the
standard /? sequence to see what I mean.
I was kind of startled by Ed Cryer's remark (requoted here for ease of
finding), which I failed to understand:
"If you'd done as much system testing as I have on large-scale govt
systems, you'd have learnt not to tinker with the test-beds. Only change
required bits, bits that have failed; otherwise you can easily throw in
new bugs that'll compound the issue."

I had also changed the %temp% to something more convenient :)

Your idea that he's not familiar with redirection seems to make sense,
however, and it makes his attitude more understandable - and hence more
acceptable - to me.

BTW, I also fiddled a bit with the arguments, but I didn't find out much
and lost interest :)
 
J

Joe Morris

I was kind of startled by Ed Cryer's remark (requoted here for ease of
finding), which I failed to understand:
"If you'd done as much system testing as I have on large-scale govt
systems, you'd have learnt not to tinker with the test-beds. Only change
required bits, bits that have failed; otherwise you can easily throw in
new bugs that'll compound the issue."
I'll agree with Ed's comments to the extent that when in a business
environment one is trying to find what is causing a program to blow up you
want to be extremely paranoid about making *any* change that's not
documented six ways from Sunday and signed off by a flag officer: your
report will be read by individuals who are clueless about the details of
what you did in the test but who will attack you if you can't reproduce the
exact same response on demand. OTOH, for an informal environment like this,
with a single command line that can be tried with any number of variations,
the rules should be a bit more relaxed. And yes, part of my job is often to
find the buggy needle in a county-wide haystack full of unbuggy needles that
look the same. ("Twisty little passages, all alike" if you prefer.)
I had also changed the %temp% to something more convenient :)
....and perhaps I should point out that when I introduced the WMIC command
into this thread I needed to use parameters that were likely to work on all
systems, and for output, using %TEMP% to point to the local temporary folder
is about the only one that will work with XP and everything above unless
someone's screwed up the file system permissions. [*]

Changing the destination of an output redirect is about the least dangerous
things to do when altering an example command line. It's not absolutely
safe but is reasonably so as long as you don't get careless.

[*] The WMIC QFE command will run on XP, but don't trust the output. To
enumerate the installed updates it's much safer (and easier) if you use the
Registry (HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Updates\Windows XP) since WMIC gives
strange results; install and use QFECHECK instead.

In Vista and Windows 7 the information is no longer in the Registry, which
forced my shop to abandon our mature compliance audit tool and find a new
one.

Your idea that he's not familiar with redirection seems to make sense,
however, and it makes his attitude more understandable - and hence more
acceptable - to me.

BTW, I also fiddled a bit with the arguments, but I didn't find out much
and lost interest :)
I have no idea of its history, but WMIC shows many of the earmarks of a
command that was designed by a committee. I noted upthread that it's
extremely fragile and poorly documented, although the APIs available through
..NET (and thus in PowerShell) are nice.

If you want to dig down into the data buried in WMI you might want to
experiment with the WBEMTEST command. Like WMIC it will never be considered
to have an intuitive user interface, but there are several good entries on
Microsoft's web site; search for "WBEMTEST".

Joe
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

I was kind of startled by Ed Cryer's remark (requoted here for ease of
finding), which I failed to understand:
"If you'd done as much system testing as I have on large-scale govt
systems, you'd have learnt not to tinker with the test-beds. Only change
required bits, bits that have failed; otherwise you can easily throw in
new bugs that'll compound the issue."
I'll agree with Ed's comments to the extent that when in a business
environment one is trying to find what is causing a program to blow up you
want to be extremely paranoid about making *any* change that's not
documented six ways from Sunday and signed off by a flag officer: your
report will be read by individuals who are clueless about the details of
what you did in the test but who will attack you if you can't reproduce the
exact same response on demand. OTOH, for an informal environment like this,
with a single command line that can be tried with any number of variations,
the rules should be a bit more relaxed. And yes, part of my job is often to
find the buggy needle in a county-wide haystack full of unbuggy needles that
look the same. ("Twisty little passages, all alike" if you prefer.)
I had also changed the %temp% to something more convenient :)
...and perhaps I should point out that when I introduced the WMIC command
into this thread I needed to use parameters that were likely to work on all
systems, and for output, using %TEMP% to point to the local temporary folder
is about the only one that will work with XP and everything above unless
someone's screwed up the file system permissions. [*]

Changing the destination of an output redirect is about the least dangerous
things to do when altering an example command line. It's not absolutely
safe but is reasonably so as long as you don't get careless.

[*] The WMIC QFE command will run on XP, but don't trust the output. To
enumerate the installed updates it's much safer (and easier) if you use the
Registry (HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Updates\Windows XP) since WMIC gives
strange results; install and use QFECHECK instead.

In Vista and Windows 7 the information is no longer in the Registry, which
forced my shop to abandon our mature compliance audit tool and find a new
one.
Your idea that he's not familiar with redirection seems to make sense,
however, and it makes his attitude more understandable - and hence more
acceptable - to me.

BTW, I also fiddled a bit with the arguments, but I didn't find out much
and lost interest :)
I have no idea of its history, but WMIC shows many of the earmarks of a
command that was designed by a committee. I noted upthread that it's
extremely fragile and poorly documented, although the APIs available through
.NET (and thus in PowerShell) are nice.

If you want to dig down into the data buried in WMI you might want to
experiment with the WBEMTEST command. Like WMIC it will never be considered
to have an intuitive user interface, but there are several good entries on
Microsoft's web site; search for "WBEMTEST".

Joe
Thanks for the comments.

It's true that messing with redirection should be pretty safe, which was
what I was thinking, but somebody above pointed out that things like

"> C:\Windows\System32\kernel32.dll"

might not be the best places to redirect to :)

Of course, I wasn't planning to redirect that way.

I had looked around for some evidence of a stash of updates with no
success (since I lacked a clue). For some forgotten reason, I didn't try
the registry, but since this is W7, your remarks above make it clear
that I wouldn't have found it anyway.
 
C

Char Jackson

For yielding to %temp%tation, I presume.
There it is! That's what I've been looking for. Why do you make us
wait so long for one of those jewels to be unearthed? :)
 
D

Dave \Crash\ Dummy

Char said:
How dare you. You're going to burst into flames. :)
I've been diddling with environment variables since DOS days, usually
expanding or modifying %path%. As with anything, though, if you don't
know what it is and don't understand it, don't mess with it.

O.T. It is really a good idea to check the %path% variable from time to
time. A lot of applications will add themselves to the chain then not
bother to remove the entry when they are uninstalled.

(I also move pagefile.sys off of the C drive.)
 
N

Nil

O.T. It is really a good idea to check the %path% variable from
time to time. A lot of applications will add themselves to the
chain then not bother to remove the entry when they are
uninstalled.
Good idea. I hadn't done that for a couple of years, and I found THREE
(non-PATH) variables that had been set by Quicktime that were wrong.
Grrrr...

I also re-ordered the PATH variable to put the most used entries at the
beginning. Probably makes little or no practical difference, but it
made me feel better.
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

There it is! That's what I've been looking for. Why do you make us
wait so long for one of those jewels to be unearthed? :)
It's because I had to wait so long for a straight man :)

I never know when something like the post above or a remark in a
conversation will force me to make a pun.

To some my way of thinking can be fun, but not everyone I meet in person
likes that kind of humor. Big surprise, no?

The other day someone who knows my propensities told me of something her
husband said. She was preparing Swiss chard, and he said he should open
a bottle of Chardonnay. It went right past me. In my defense, it was a
noisy environment. But still, I screwed up. We'll see if she ever tells
me another pun :)
 

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