Win 7 vs Win 8

[Gene E. Bloch]

That too.

Only that.

 

[John Morrison]

In message <[email protected]>, Bob Henson
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: []
Are you entirely sure of that - for a computer-unsavvy newcomer? _I_

Somewhat rare, these days, of course.

You're joking, right?

Not at all, in the circles I move in in UK, at least: there are few
people who don't have some experience of computers, even if they don't
know that they do (because the computers aren't called computers, but
phones, TVs, cars, ...). Plus - in the case of many older folk - their
grandchildren are into such things.

Living in an "over-55" community for a dozen years: my experience is
quite the opposite.

I suppose maybe I should have said that some of the most resistant folk
I've encountered are _not_ necessarily elderly.[/QUOTE]

I bought my first PC when Win 3.1 had just been released, I had 2 hours
Internet access every day. I had never seen or used a computer till
then.

The day I fired up my first computer with the operating system not as
yet installed. I inserted the Win 3.1 disk and Windows started asking
questions and my thoughts were: s**t, what do I do now?

Thankfully during that first week I formatted my C: drive and created
three new partitions, C: D: & E:. I've managed OK and now using Windows
8 with much that same configuration.

Lots of help has been received by me when reading newsgoups to allow me
to achieve this.

 

[Dominique]

Dominique has written on 6/7/2013 5:39 PM:


Shutdown or sleep/hybernate?

When you press Alt-F4, a dialog box open, you can scroll down a list and
choose: Shutdown, Restart, Hibernate but by default it points to shutdown
so if that's what you want to do, just press Enter.

It works with Win7 too and I guess all previous version of Windows.

 

[Dominique]

To shut down Windows 8 on my desktop, I click the Start orb, then Shut
Down (I run Start8).

I don't have a Start orb (or any 3rd party Start menu) and so far, I don't
need it.

 

[Ken Blake]

Ken Blake <[email protected]> écrivait


I don't have a Start orb (or any 3rd party Start menu) and so far, I don't
need it.

"Need" is too strong a word, as far as I'm concerned. I don't *need*
it either, but it makes my life much easier and I'm glad to have it.

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

When you press Alt-F4, a dialog box open, you can scroll down a list and
choose: Shutdown, Restart, Hibernate but by default it points to shutdown
so if that's what you want to do, just press Enter.

It works with Win7 too and I guess all previous version of Windows.

With '9x (I can't remember for previous), pressing in turn Win, U, and
Enter would shut down. In XP (default home versions), Win, U, U does it
(it's different on our Work XP machines as there's logging out
involved). I find the three key sequence easy - even easier than Alt-F4,
as it doesn't involve two keys at once.

(Not sure for 7, let alone 8.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

(If you are unlucky you may choose one of the old-fashioned ones [language
schools] and be taught English as it should be, and not as it is, spoken.)
George Mikes, "How to be Decadent" (1977).

 

[Roy Smith]

--[snip]--


When you receive a new Dell/Acer/Gateway/HP computer, one
of your first steps is recording the license key string
printed on the COA, in a safe place. A number of people have managed
to scratch up the COA sticker enough, they cannot read it
three years from now when they need it.

At least one laptop maker, now puts the COA sticker in the battery
bay, to protect it from scratching and abrasion.

Hmmm... I recently bought a Dell laptop but looking at the bottom
there is *NO* COA attached, nor is there one in the battery
compartment. There is however a sticker on the bottom with a
Windows 8 logo on it with no license key string at all. So what's
one to do then?

I did however burn a restore CD set when I was prompted to do
shortly after turning it on for the first time. So I do have that
in case of some future disaster. Just need to get Acronis True
Image then I'll be able to rest easier at night.
;-)

 

[Paul]

Bob Henson wrote:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
<snip>

--[snip]--

When you receive a new Dell/Acer/Gateway/HP computer, one
of your first steps is recording the license key string
printed on the COA, in a safe place. A number of people have managed
to scratch up the COA sticker enough, they cannot read it
three years from now when they need it.

At least one laptop maker, now puts the COA sticker in the battery
bay, to protect it from scratching and abrasion.

Hmmm... I recently bought a Dell laptop but looking at the bottom
there is *NO* COA attached, nor is there one in the battery
compartment. There is however a sticker on the bottom with a
Windows 8 logo on it with no license key string at all. So what's
one to do then?

I did however burn a restore CD set when I was prompted to do
shortly after turning it on for the first time. So I do have that
in case of some future disaster. Just need to get Acronis True
Image then I'll be able to rest easier at night.
;-)

Hmmm.

http://www.techsupportportal.com/windows-8-oem-and-coa/

"Microsoft writes a unique cd-key in to BIOS of every PC in an
encrypted format that can not be read by a normal user when he
opens the BIOS screen . So you do not have to worry about the
activation keys when you change the hard disk . Your system will
take care of it . Bad news for you if you are a pirate .

The above facts are applicable for the windows 8 OEM that is
pre installed on your branded laptps , The retail version will
surly come with the normal way of product activation
"

I guess this will be something else to test... Can you reinstall
from a regular Win8 DVD and have it activate automatically ?

And what happens if you change the motherboard, without
reinstalling the OS ?

HTH,
Paul

 

[Roy Smith]

chicagofan wrote:
Bob Henson wrote:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
<snip>
--[snip]--

When you receive a new Dell/Acer/Gateway/HP computer, one
of your first steps is recording the license key string
printed on the COA, in a safe place. A number of people have managed
to scratch up the COA sticker enough, they cannot read it
three years from now when they need it.

At least one laptop maker, now puts the COA sticker in the battery
bay, to protect it from scratching and abrasion.

Hmmm... I recently bought a Dell laptop but looking at the bottom
there is *NO* COA attached, nor is there one in the battery
compartment. There is however a sticker on the bottom with a
Windows 8 logo on it with no license key string at all. So what's
one to do then?

I did however burn a restore CD set when I was prompted to do
shortly after turning it on for the first time. So I do have that
in case of some future disaster. Just need to get Acronis True
Image then I'll be able to rest easier at night.
;-)

Hmmm.

http://www.techsupportportal.com/windows-8-oem-and-coa/

"Microsoft writes a unique cd-key in to BIOS of every PC in an
encrypted format that can not be read by a normal user when he
opens the BIOS screen . So you do not have to worry about the
activation keys when you change the hard disk . Your system will
take care of it . Bad news for you if you are a pirate .

The above facts are applicable for the windows 8 OEM that is
pre installed on your branded laptps , The retail version will
surly come with the normal way of product activation
"

I guess this will be something else to test... Can you reinstall
from a regular Win8 DVD and have it activate automatically ?

And what happens if you change the motherboard, without
reinstalling the OS ?

Those would be interesting scenarios to ponder, but unfortunately I
don't have a regular Win8 DVD to test it with. Nor am I willing to test
out the replacing the motherboard just yet. Though I would imagine that
in that situation Dell would do whatever was necessary to get Win8
running on a laptop with a replaced motherboard.


--

Roy Smith
Windows 8 64-Bit
Thunderbird 17.0.6
Tuesday, June 11, 2013 9:54:18 AM

 

[Paul]

chicagofan wrote:
Bob Henson wrote:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
<snip>

--[snip]--

When you receive a new Dell/Acer/Gateway/HP computer, one
of your first steps is recording the license key string
printed on the COA, in a safe place. A number of people have managed
to scratch up the COA sticker enough, they cannot read it
three years from now when they need it.

At least one laptop maker, now puts the COA sticker in the battery
bay, to protect it from scratching and abrasion.

Hmmm... I recently bought a Dell laptop but looking at the bottom
there is *NO* COA attached, nor is there one in the battery
compartment. There is however a sticker on the bottom with a
Windows 8 logo on it with no license key string at all. So what's
one to do then?

I did however burn a restore CD set when I was prompted to do
shortly after turning it on for the first time. So I do have that
in case of some future disaster. Just need to get Acronis True
Image then I'll be able to rest easier at night.
;-)

Hmmm.

http://www.techsupportportal.com/windows-8-oem-and-coa/

"Microsoft writes a unique cd-key in to BIOS of every PC in an
encrypted format that can not be read by a normal user when he
opens the BIOS screen . So you do not have to worry about the
activation keys when you change the hard disk . Your system will
take care of it . Bad news for you if you are a pirate .

The above facts are applicable for the windows 8 OEM that is
pre installed on your branded laptps , The retail version will
surly come with the normal way of product activation
"

I guess this will be something else to test... Can you reinstall
from a regular Win8 DVD and have it activate automatically ?

And what happens if you change the motherboard, without
reinstalling the OS ?

Those would be interesting scenarios to ponder, but unfortunately I
don't have a regular Win8 DVD to test it with. Nor am I willing to test
out the replacing the motherboard just yet. Though I would imagine that
in that situation Dell would do whatever was necessary to get Win8
running on a laptop with a replaced motherboard.

I thought this was pretty funny. On the one hand, Windows 8 doesn't have
digital river downloads like Windows 7 did. But on the other hand...

http://superuser.com/questions/593366/where-can-i-download-a-legitimate-windows-8-iso

If you go to this page, and click "Windows 8", it will list some files.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/subscriptions/downloads/hh442898.aspx

Windows 8 (multiple editions) (x64) - DVD (English)
English Release Date: 8/15/2012 Details

(You can click some buttons on that page, to get other languages.)

If you click the details, it says:

File Name: en_windows_8_x64_dvd_915440.iso
Languages: English
SHA1: 1CE53AD5F60419CF04A715CF3233F247E48BEEC4

So that's a way of verifying a download, is the same as an image like that.

Now, if I pop "en_windows_8_x64_dvd_915440.iso" into a search
engine, I get a hit on docs.google.com . And it's downloading
right now

The thing is, I can't send you a copy of my $39.95 ISO9660,
because it contains "install.esd". The "esd" part, means it
is encrypted or something. (And each time you download, the
generated .esd is different.) Whereas a regular DVD would
have a fixed "install.wim" on it. It is possible the DVD image
can be tracked, when the .esd extension is being used.
If you purchased Windows 8 at a store, the DVD has
install.wim on it. I'm hoping the things you download,
would have a .wim on them as well.

The purpose of the SHA1, is so you can later run

sha1sum en_windows_8_x64_dvd_915440.iso

and it comes back "1CE53AD5F60419CF04A715CF3233F247E48BEEC4".
While MD5 has been cracked, there's a chance SHA1 is
more difficult to adulterate without detection. If
the checksum passes, it could well be a legit MSDN image.

Now, I have no idea, whether "915440" would be of use to me
or not. But at least there is a chance you could find something
out there, that looks like a DVD.

Microsoft should really bump up the level on the checksum,
like SHA-256, just for the hell of it. SHA1 leaves a tiny
bit of room for doubts. I'm using it in this case, to
prove the legitimacy of the download (when it eventually
gets here).

Paul

 

[OldGuy]

I don't have a Start orb (or any 3rd party Start menu) and so far, I
don't
need it.

But if you do want one go to the Microsoft Store and search on 'Start" and
you can download a freeeee Start Orb etc for Win 8.

 

[Ken Blake]

But if you do want one go to the Microsoft Store and search on 'Start" and
you can download a freeeee Start Orb etc for Win 8.

There are several Start Orb programs for Windows 8. Some are free
(like Classic Shell, which my wife uses) and good, and some are very
inexpensive (like the $4.99 US Start8, which I use) and even better.

You can save the $5 and get a free one, if you want. But to me, $5 is
such a small amount of money that I'm willing to pay it to get what I
prefer.

 

[Dominique]

OldGuy <[email protected]> écrivait pc.ampedwireless:

But if you do want one go to the Microsoft Store and search on 'Start" and
you can download a freeeee Start Orb etc for Win 8.

Thanks but so far, I'm doing fine without.

 

[sevenlusr]

Other than the Win 8 start screen that many dislike, what are the real important differences?

If I'm going to look at something everyday then this little thing is important.

The icons in W8 are simply...ugly.

Example? What's with those icons showing only half or a portion of themselves? What's with that? Bad designer (Jobs was right) or lazy programmer?

 

[chicagofan]

chicagofan has written on 6/8/2013 5:23 PM:

You certainly aren't alone! I made the mistake of buying my
daughter a new laptop with Win 8, thinking the $130 discount to move it,
would allay some of the distress dealing with it. It definitely did
not, and I truly don't know why anyone would buy this O/S unless there
were NO other choice.

I have no desire to use Windows phone, and this forced use [bypass] of
their GUI has made me want to dump Windows period. I wish I weren't too
old to adopt Linux, but I still have Win 7. However, there's no help
for my daughter... because she just wants to open her laptop and see
only what she wants.

There are many third-party applications that will restore the Start
Button and Start Menu, boot directly to the old desktop, etc.

They have been discussed in alt.comp.os.windows-8

Thanks! I have subscribed to that newsgroup now.
bj

 

[chicagofan]

Net Runner is very Windows like and very easy to use. Unlike other
Linux distros, you never have to upgrade to another version because
it's a rolling release that just upgrades on its own.

http://www.netrunner-os.com/

Thanks, I have filed this away for possible future use.
bj

 

[chicagofan]

Sorry I've rambled on so long, but the sheer and total stupidity of
Windows
8 makes me quite angry.

You certainly aren't alone! I made the mistake of buying my
daughter a new laptop with Win 8, thinking the $130 discount to move
it, would allay some of the distress dealing with it. It definitely
did not, and I truly don't know why anyone would buy this O/S unless
there were NO other choice.

I have no desire to use Windows phone, and this forced use [bypass]
of their GUI has made me want to dump Windows period. I wish I
weren't too old to adopt Linux, but I still have Win 7. However,
there's no help for my daughter... because she just wants to open her
laptop and see only what she wants.
bj

A laptop would have an OEM version of Windows on it.

You would have downgrade rights, to go from Windows 8 to Windows 7.
I presume you take this up, with the company that made the laptop.

http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/pages/downgrade_rights.aspx#fbid=yMu9n7qGHZE


"Windows 8 Pro includes downgrade rights to:

* Windows 7 Professional
* Windows Vista Business
"

First step, is determining what version of Windows is on the Win8
laptop, then see what downgrade rights exist. If it was a Starter
edition, perhaps it cannot be downgraded.

The laptop manufacturer may give you some baloney about
"no drivers for Windows 7", but if they have a Windows 7
DVD to offer, get them to send it anyway and worry about the
drivers later. The main thing, is to get a disc (presumably
licensed by the SLIC in the BIOS). It would be nice to have
a COA to place on the machine, but you can't have everything.
I don't know if the Windows 8 COA current on the exterior of
the laptop, would be suitable for Windows 7 or not. The COA is
used, in case the computer ever dies and you need to use
a different installer DVD to restore it. The license key string
printed on the COA, is *not* the same value as the one
currently in the (SLIC based) installation. They're different
classes of keys.

When you receive a new Dell/Acer/Gateway/HP computer, one
of your first steps is recording the license key string
printed on the COA, in a safe place. A number of people have managed
to scratch up the COA sticker enough, they cannot read it
three years from now when they need it.

At least one laptop maker, now puts the COA sticker in the battery
bay, to protect it from scratching and abrasion.

Paul

Thanks for all the great information Paul. I don't think we'll be able
to downgrade though, I think her version of Win8 is considered a Home
version. It's definitely not Win8 Pro. I'm saving this information
though, and appreciate it very much.

I would like to take that laptop and crack it over Steve Ballmer's head,
right after I tell him I couldn't "get over it" as he instructed.
bj

 

[Wolf K]

chicagofan has written on 6/8/2013 5:23 PM:

You certainly aren't alone! I made the mistake of buying my
daughter a new laptop with Win 8, thinking the $130 discount to move it,
would allay some of the distress dealing with it. It definitely did
not, and I truly don't know why anyone would buy this O/S unless there
were NO other choice.

I have no desire to use Windows phone, and this forced use [bypass] of
their GUI has made me want to dump Windows period. I wish I weren't too
old to adopt Linux, but I still have Win 7. However, there's no help
for my daughter... because she just wants to open her laptop and see
only what she wants.

There are many third-party applications that will restore the Start
Button and Start Menu, boot directly to the old desktop, etc.

They have been discussed in alt.comp.os.windows-8

Thanks! I have subscribed to that newsgroup now.
bj

Under the hood W8 is almost entirely W7. The main difference is the
Metro touch-screen GUI, badly adapted for mousing. Get rid of that, and
you have a (somewhat) improved W7. I use Classic Shell to get the proper
GUI (you can select XP/Vista/W7 look'n'feel). There are other products.

The only irritating things are:
a) The random appearance of the lefthand icon menu for repair/settings etc;
c) The automatic full-screen sizing of a window when you move it too far
upwards. If anyone knows a registry hack to stop a) and/or b), please post.
b) No way to eliminate the "apps" bundled with W8, which aren't worth
keeping.

Apart from that, I like it as well as any other Windows.

 

[Juan Wei]

Wolf K has written on 8/8/2013 8:22 AM:

Under the hood W8 is almost entirely W7.

8 has a different file system.
The Task Manager is much better.
Faster boot time
Automatic program management (like a smartphone!)
"Windows 8 has an antivirus present inside the kernel of the operating
system."

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

It doesn't use NTFS? If not, which one does it use?

NTFS