Upgrading old computers

[Antares 531]

Sounds like a blown Ethernet port, like you'd typically see after a
nearby lightning strike. If your computer has two Ethernet ports,
maybe the other one still works. If it only has that one, it looks
like you might be in the market for a replacement NIC. Luckily,
they're cheap. Check your motherboard to see if you have an open slot,
note what type of slot it is, and get a NIC that fits. Pretty simple.

I went to the local Best Buy store yesterday but they don't have any
NIC cards that provide means for a Cat 5 hook-up. I'll try some other
stores today.

Figure out how to do it?? Go to one of your computers that has a
working Ethernet connection, fire up your favorite web browser, and
navigate to your router's IP address. Log in, click on the wireless
settings section, click on security, set it to none, click OK. Done.

I've done this and, yes, I can access the router's IP address from
them, but from the two old computers that won't connect to the router,
there is no means for doing this.

 

[Wolf K]

I went to the local Best Buy store yesterday but they don't have the
NIC card that provides means for a Cat 5 cable hook-up. I'll try
another store, today and hope to find one.

Don't think in terms of Cat 5. It's an _Ethernet_ cable. So you should
ask for an Ethernet card (or an RJ-45 card, because the connector is
called RJ-45).

Cat 5 is AFAIK an obsolete specification. Newer Ethernet cables are Cat 6.

 

[Char Jackson]

On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 16:11:52 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"

[snip]

To get to the router, enter something like http://192.168.1.1 in the
browser's address bar. 192.168.1.1 is an example; your router's address
may differ a bit from that.

192.168.0.1 is another common one.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

I can do this from my new desktop computer with no problems. This is
the computer that "manages" the router and has a Cat 5 cable
connection to it.

For the record, any locally connected computer is equally able to
manage the router. It's not something one computer can do better than
another.

 

[Char Jackson]

I tried this but it didn't seem to make any difference. That is, the
old computer still shows the available connection but shows it as not
secured. The old computer still wouldn't complete the connection.

It may be trying to use the old settings. I don't have time right now
to walk you through it, but you need to help it to forget what it
thinks it knows about your network and start over as if it had never
seen your router before. I think you do it under Manage Wireless
Networks.

 

[Wolf K]

I can do this from my new desktop computer with no problems. This is
the computer that "manages" the router and has a Cat 5 cable
connection to it.

Again, you misunderstand. This is the computer that you used to
configure the router. If one of the old machines had a working Ethernet
connection, you could have used it instead.

None of the computers on your network "manage" the router. It's just a
smart switch, that interconnects devices into a network. It's smart
because it can be configured to demand a password from any device that
asks to be connected.

IMO, your incorrect model/theory of how the router works etc is one of
the reasons you are having trouble figuring out what to do. People here
have been giving you good advice, but because of your misunderstanding
you cannot use it properly.

Once again: "Cat 5" is just a specification for an Ethernet cable. The
signals degrade as they pass along the cable. Cat 5 means the cable can
be longer without degrading the signal so much that it can't be decoded
at the receiving end.

Analogy: a long, narrow concrete block corridor. If you shout down it,
there will be echoes. If the corridor is very long, the echoes will be
so bad that a person at the other end cannot understand you.

I happen to have 2 devices cable-connected to my wi-fi router. One is a
Cat 5, the other is a Cat 6. Why? Because both these cables are
leftovers, scrounged from other installations. (I'm a skinflint ;-) )
Operationally, there's no difference.

 

[Char Jackson]

I'm not sure what you're talking about, here. I mentioned that the
router lights show amber for the old desktop computer that has a Cat
5 cable connection. The other old computer will show on its monitor,
the network as an available connection but it won't complete the
connection. It times out and quits.

An Ethernet connection has two ends, right? There's a set of LEDs at
*both* ends of that connection, not just at the router end. *Both*
ends of that connection need to have a Link LED that glows steady.
*Both* ends will also have an Activity LED that will glow when data is
being passed, but you need the Link light before anything else can
happen. If you have a Link light at one end and no Link light at the
other end, and you've already tried a different cable, then your
Ethernet port is blown. Hence, the advice to replace it.

I went to the local Best Buy store yesterday but they don't have the
NIC card that provides means for a Cat 5 cable hook-up. I'll try
another store, today and hope to find one.

I'm guessing you ran into an associate who may be new.

 

[Wolf K]

I went to the local Best Buy store yesterday but they don't have any
NIC cards that provide means for a Cat 5 hook-up. I'll try some other
stores today.

I simply don't believe this. I think that because you asked for a "Cat 5
hook-up" you ran into sales-assistant ignorance. You should have asked
for an Ethernet card.

 

[Char Jackson]

I went to the local Best Buy store yesterday but they don't have any
NIC cards that provide means for a Cat 5 hook-up. I'll try some other
stores today.

The Best Buy website shows this one near the top when sorted by
ratings. It's up to you to know what kind of slot you have open in
your computer. This one is PCI and costs less than $11.
<http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Startec...40&skuId=4527973&st=network adapter&cp=1&lp=7>

I've done this and, yes, I can access the router's IP address from
them, but from the two old computers that won't connect to the router,
there is no means for doing this.

Naturally! Since it's a config change on the router, it doesn't matter
which computer you use to do it. Use any computer with a working
connection to the router!

 

[Wolf K]

Don't think in terms of Cat 5. It's an _Ethernet_ cable. So you should
ask for an Ethernet card (or an RJ-45 card, because the connector is
called RJ-45).

Cat 5 is AFAIK an obsolete specification. Newer Ethernet cables are Cat 6.

Actually, on checking, I find that it's obsolescent, still made, but
being displaced by Cat 6. For home networks it's more than adequate.

 

[Wolf K]

It may be trying to use the old settings. I don't have time right now
to walk you through it, but you need to help it to forget what it
thinks it knows about your network and start over as if it had never
seen your router before. I think you do it under Manage Wireless
Networks.

Settings >> Control Panel >> Network

Try deleting all networks that the old machine displays. Don't let it
search for networks, but reboot. Then have it search for networks, it
will find the new network. Insert required information etc..

If this does not work, the Ethernet card (NIC) is fried I think.

 

[Antares 531]

On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 16:11:52 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"

[snip]

To get to the router, enter something like http://192.168.1.1 in the
browser's address bar. 192.168.1.1 is an example; your router's address
may differ a bit from that.

192.168.0.1 is another common one.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

I can do this from my new desktop computer with no problems. This is
the computer that "manages" the router and has a Cat 5 cable
connection to it.

For the record, any locally connected computer is equally able to
manage the router. It's not something one computer can do better than
another.

Okay, I agree, but the problem is that those two old computers, one
that is Ethernet cable connected and one Wi-Fi setup do not have a
signal connection to the router, therefore these computers are not
able to manage the router. Gordon

 

[Antares 531]

Again, you misunderstand. This is the computer that you used to
configure the router. If one of the old machines had a working Ethernet
connection, you could have used it instead.

Okay, I phrased this wrong. I do use my new desktop computer with an
Ethernet connection to the router to "manage" the router. If I can get
the old computer to finalize their router connections I could use
either of them to do the same thing....but I've got to get the
connection firmed up first. Gordon

None of the computers on your network "manage" the router. It's just a
smart switch, that interconnects devices into a network. It's smart
because it can be configured to demand a password from any device that
asks to be connected.

I should have said "set up" instead of "manage" the router. I used and
still use my new desktop computer to set up the router and make any
needed changes.

 

[Antares 531]

It may be trying to use the old settings. I don't have time right now
to walk you through it, but you need to help it to forget what it
thinks it knows about your network and start over as if it had never
seen your router before. I think you do it under Manage Wireless
Networks.

Thanks, I'll do some exploring in this area and see if I can get it
figured out. Gordon

 

[Wolf K]

Okay, I agree, but the problem is that those two old computers, one
that is Ethernet cable connected and one Wi-Fi setup do not have a
signal connection to the router, therefore these computers are not
able to manage the router. Gordon

The computers do not "manage" the router in any sense of the word. When
you first install a router, you must set it up to run the network you
are creating. Once it is configured ANY device that can connect via
cable or wi-fi, and that provides the correct password, will be part of
that network. You do not have to configure the router ever again.

The fact that you cannot complete the connection between the old
machines and the new router means one of two things:

a) the old machines are providing the old password, not the new one. The
router will not (of course) accept the old password.

b) the Ethernet hardware inside the old computers is fried.

The cure(s) have been provided several times.

 

[ray]

With the prices these days, and capabilities, buy new replacement
machines. Just save your data. Anything else is just a waste of your
time, and would at best stave off the inevitable.

The kicker there is disposing of the old equipment.

 

[Char Jackson]

The computers do not "manage" the router in any sense of the word. When
you first install a router, you must set it up to run the network you
are creating. Once it is configured ANY device that can connect via
cable or wi-fi, and that provides the correct password, will be part of
that network. You do not have to configure the router ever again.

Nice simplification below, Wolf. Thanks.

The fact that you cannot complete the connection between the old
machines and the new router means one of two things:

a) the old machines are providing the old password, not the new one. The
router will not (of course) accept the old password.

The above applies to the wireless computer that's having connection
problems. If it's not a password issue, then look at encryption
settings. The new router may have defaulted to WPA2 AES PSK while the
older wireless computer may only support WPA (not WPA2) TKIP PSK, for
example. You can offer the right password all day long and it won't
work if they can't agree on what encryption to use. That's why I
suggested disabling the encryption, as a test.

b) the Ethernet hardware inside the old computers is fried.

And the part above applies to the wired computer. With the Ethernet
cable connected, there needs to be a Link LED lit up at each end. If
one or both ends are dark, it's a physical problem and must be
repaired before there can be any hope of proceeding.

The cure(s) have been provided several times.

True that.

 

[Char Jackson]

On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 16:11:52 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"

[snip]

To get to the router, enter something like http://192.168.1.1 in the
browser's address bar. 192.168.1.1 is an example; your router's address
may differ a bit from that.

192.168.0.1 is another common one.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

I can do this from my new desktop computer with no problems. This is
the computer that "manages" the router and has a Cat 5 cable
connection to it.

For the record, any locally connected computer is equally able to
manage the router. It's not something one computer can do better than
another.

Okay, I agree, but the problem is that those two old computers, one
that is Ethernet cable connected and one Wi-Fi setup do not have a
signal connection to the router, therefore these computers are not
able to manage the router. Gordon

ARGH! You're stuck in a loop. See Wolf's post where he clearly says
you don't need to keep "managing" the router. We're asking you to a
simple troubleshooting step that requires a temporary router config
change, but once all of this settles down you don't need to do any
more managing. Once configured properly, the router will happily talk
to as many computers as you can fit into your house, without
additional "management".*

*Assuming you can't fit more than 253.

 

[Char Jackson]

I simply don't believe this. I think that because you asked for a "Cat 5
hook-up" you ran into sales-assistant ignorance. You should have asked
for an Ethernet card.

Maybe we can help him with a list of possible terminology:

NIC
Network Interface Card
NIC Card (redundant, I know)
Network Adapter
Ethernet Adapter
Ethernet Card
"PCI Card with an Ethernet Port" (assumes PCI slot available in PC)
"PCI Card with an RJ-45 Port" (assumes PCI slot available in PC)

There are more variations, but *something* in the list above should
clue the helpful sales associates at his neighborhood computer store.
Personally, I usually go with Network Adapter if I'm doing a search,
or NIC if I'm just talking to someone.

 

[Char Jackson]

The kicker there is disposing of the old equipment.

I live in the suburbs of a larger city and there are at least a dozen
places around me that take old computer gear. Some of them attempt to
refurbish what they can and sell or donate it, while others simply
palletize it in large quantities and truck it somewhere for
reclamation. CRT monitors have large amounts of lead, while anything
with a circuit board likely has small amounts of gold that can be
reclaimed.

 

[Antares 531]

We have two old desktop computers in our household network that are on
the verge of obsolescence, but I would like to upgrade them. Both are
still running Windows XP but I'm not sure the CPUs and the motherboard
in general is capable of handling a later version...say Windows 7, 64
bit.

How can I determine the upgrade limitations for these old computers
before I buy any new hard disks or software for them?

If these computers are upgradable, can I install a new hard drive then
format it for 64 bits, then install Windows 7, then use the old files
that are now stored on a second hard drive that is formatted for 32
bit data?

Looking better! I went to the local Computer Connections store and
they DID have the Ethernet card and I bought one...Zonet ZEN3200
1/100Mbpps Fast Ethernet Adapter. I installed this card then
re-connected the power cord and powered up the computer (the old
desktop computer) and it immediately, automatically connected to the
router and began downloading updates. This update process was
obviously a few days behind schedule and it may take a while for it to
finish, so went "hands off" of that computer and am now using my new
desktop to send this message.

I just checked the old computer and it indicates that the download
process has finished. I clicked the icon to start installing the new
update downloads. All seems to be working very well, and very fast.

So, with that computer's problems out of the way I can now concentrate
on the other old desktop which is or hopefully will eventually be
Wi-Fi connected to the router. Wish me well!!!

Gordon