Library enhancements and/or replacement

[mick]

Hi, Mick,

Given my experiments, and what you've just said, aren't all your tags being
done by Directory Opus and not Win 7?

After reading the one website that talked about tags in Office 2007, I'd bet
that tag is part of the docx file, where your tags are created by Directory
Opus, and maintained by Directory Opus. Take a file tagged by you, send it
to me, and I'd bet the tag is useless. But, if you sent me a tagged docx
file, I bet the tag works if I open it in Office 2007. I'd bet the docx tag
is part of the file structure itself.


But, aren't those tags are external to the file itself, as I have speculated
above?

And what about the files I want to display in a library that are not graphics
files? What if they are word processing, database, spreadsheet, ET. AL.? Or
a mix of file types?

I can't imagine there isn't some program/utility that will do this, just
haven't found it yet. I'm also looking for similar for OS X. But I was
hoping to find something that hooked into the OS, and not a standalone
program.

What is becoming dismaying/disappointing, is that as I work with the
libraries, there seems to be only one thing that can be done with libraries
that can't be done using a window with shortcuts. And that's display the
contents of all the folders in the same window, something I've never seen
done in any Windows OS.

And as for the shortcut idea? Pretty sure I can do exactly the same thing on
my 30 year old Atari computer with an alternative multitasking desktop.

So, I ask, just what is really new as far as being able to do things more
efficiently with Libraries other than viewing the contents of all the folders
at the same time?

Well, here is my opinion, windows explorer is a waste of time,
libraries are for those people who have no organisational skills in
keeping a tidy and meaningful structure to their computer folders and
files.

Tags are saved to files as metadata. Tag a docx in DOpus and you will
see the tag in WExplorer if I sent it to you. I have many downloaded
..pdf's tagged by other people, I can see (and search) the tags in DOpus
but cannot see or tag them in WExplorer. Tag any file in DOPus and you
will see it in ACDsee, tag any file in ACDsee and you will see it in
DOpus but in WExplorer you will only see what Microsoft thinks you need
to see :-[

Windows is lacking in usability for proficient users, it is dumbed down
for the masses. I use it to boot the computer into life then for
virtually everything else I use third party software.

Try one of the free file managers like Freecommmander, I am sure you
will get much more satisfaction.

 

[Char Jackson]

What is becoming dismaying/disappointing, is that as I work with the
libraries, there seems to be only one thing that can be done with
libraries that can't be done using a window with shortcuts. And that's
display the contents of all the folders in the same window, something
I've never seen done in any Windows OS.

I'm not quite getting that. Since you've never seen it done in any
previous Windows OS, why is it dismaying/disappointing and not
somewhat amazing?

(Alright, there's nothing amazing about libraries, but I needed a word
from the other end of the spectrum.)

So, I ask, just what is really new as far as being able to do things
more efficiently with Libraries other than viewing the contents of all
the folders at the same time?

I think you already mentioned the primary advantage above. It's the
ability to aggregate the view of two or more folders into a single
view, something that Windows couldn't do before. It's far from
perfect, but think 'evolutionary' rather than 'revolutionary'.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

On Thu, 08 Nov 2012 04:26:00 -0700, Ken Springer

I agree. That's outside the current Library functionality being
offered by Win 7. At a minimum, you'd have to split your files into
two separate folders, for example subfolders A1 and A2.

And then I decide that files A, B, C, and D are in category, hence
folder, A1, whereas files D, E, F, and G are in category, hence folder,
A2.

Now I need to modify D. Oops. There are two copies. Today I'll remember
to edit one and copy it over the other, but tomorrow? Or what if the
lists are hundreds of files long with some overlap in categories. Can I
trust my memory, or even your (much better) memory?

Ken Springer's wish is much to be desired in such cases.

 

[Ken Springer]

Well, here is my opinion, windows explorer is a waste of time,
libraries are for those people who have no organisational skills in
keeping a tidy and meaningful structure to their computer folders and
files.

Agreed, I've seen a lot of Windows Explorer replacements that are more
to my liking.

Tags are saved to files as metadata. Tag a docx in DOpus and you will
see the tag in WExplorer if I sent it to you. I have many downloaded
.pdf's tagged by other people, I can see (and search) the tags in DOpus
but cannot see or tag them in WExplorer. Tag any file in DOPus and you
will see it in ACDsee, tag any file in ACDsee and you will see it in
DOpus but in WExplorer you will only see what Microsoft thinks you need
to see:-[

When I get the time, and if my memory doesn't fail me, I'll have to try
the DOpus trial version.

Windows is lacking in usability for proficient users, it is dumbed down
for the masses. I use it to boot the computer into life then for
virtually everything else I use third party software.

That lack of usability for proficient users in Windows has always
frustrated me. I was used to being able to do more, see more, and know
more about the "innards" when I was an Atari user.

Try one of the free file managers like Freecommmander, I am sure you
will get much more satisfaction.

I'll get it downloaded later. Thanks for the suggestion.

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 16.0.1
Thunderbird 16.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.6.2

 

[Ken Springer]

I'm not quite getting that. Since you've never seen it done in any
previous Windows OS, why is it dismaying/disappointing and not
somewhat amazing?

Because they've had.... what..... 30 years or so to realize how nice an
idea that would be for the user?

(Alright, there's nothing amazing about libraries, but I needed a word
from the other end of the spectrum.)
LOL


I think you already mentioned the primary advantage above. It's the
ability to aggregate the view of two or more folders into a single
view, something that Windows couldn't do before. It's far from
perfect, but think 'evolutionary' rather than 'revolutionary'.

And not terribly evolutionary, to my way of thinking.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 16.0.1
Thunderbird 16.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.6.2

 

[Ken Springer]

Windows is lacking in usability for proficient users, it is dumbed down
for the masses. I use it to boot the computer into life then for
virtually everything else I use third party software.

I forgot to ask if you've ever thought about using Linux? I keep trying
to find time to really try a version, but there never seems to be enough
time.

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 16.0.1
Thunderbird 16.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.6.2

 

[Ken Springer]

On 07/11/2012 1:10 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
[...]

On your hard drive, you have a lot of photos for the 4 railroads I
listed, with the photos specific to a railroad in the folder for the
railroad. For each railroad, there are photos of steam locomotives
owned by that railroad.

This is what I want to do, create two libraries, one called Railroads
and the other Steam Locomotives. When I open the Railroads library, I
want to see all the photos for all 4 railroads listed. But if I open
the Steam Locomotives library, I only want to see the photos of steam
locomotives for all 4 railroads.

[...]

Sounds like you need a real database. "Libraries" is a half-hearted
attempt to create a filing system like a database.

But using a database seems to be a bit of overkill just to have a change
in the way you can view folder/directory contents.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 16.0.1
Thunderbird 16.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.6.2

 

[Ken Springer]

And then I decide that files A, B, C, and D are in category, hence
folder, A1, whereas files D, E, F, and G are in category, hence folder,
A2.

Now I need to modify D. Oops. There are two copies. Today I'll remember
to edit one and copy it over the other, but tomorrow? Or what if the
lists are hundreds of files long with some overlap in categories. Can I
trust my memory, or even your (much better) memory?

Ken Springer's wish is much to be desired in such cases.

Thanks, Gene.

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 16.0.1
Thunderbird 16.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.6.2

 

[Char Jackson]

And then I decide that files A, B, C, and D are in category, hence
folder, A1, whereas files D, E, F, and G are in category, hence folder,
A2.

Now I need to modify D. Oops. There are two copies. Today I'll remember
to edit one and copy it over the other, but tomorrow? Or what if the
lists are hundreds of files long with some overlap in categories. Can I
trust my memory, or even your (much better) memory?

Ken Springer's wish is much to be desired in such cases.

I totally agree.

 

[Gene Wirchenko]

On 11/8/12 9:33 AM, Wolf K wrote:
[snip]

Sounds like you need a real database. "Libraries" is a half-hearted
attempt to create a filing system like a database.

But using a database seems to be a bit of overkill just to have a change
in the way you can view folder/directory contents.

Why is it overkill to get the data presented in a useful manner?

The hierarchical view is often useful, but it is limited. When
its limits get pointed out, often, the response is belittle the
requirement. I have similar requirements with some E-mail. Some of
them, I would like to have in more than one mailbox. Eudora does not
do this.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

 

[mick]

Well, here is my opinion, windows explorer is a waste of time,
libraries are for those people who have no organisational skills in
keeping a tidy and meaningful structure to their computer folders and
files.

Agreed, I've seen a lot of Windows Explorer replacements that are more to my
liking.

Tags are saved to files as metadata. Tag a docx in DOpus and you will
see the tag in WExplorer if I sent it to you. I have many downloaded
.pdf's tagged by other people, I can see (and search) the tags in DOpus
but cannot see or tag them in WExplorer. Tag any file in DOPus and you
will see it in ACDsee, tag any file in ACDsee and you will see it in
DOpus but in WExplorer you will only see what Microsoft thinks you need
to see:-[

When I get the time, and if my memory doesn't fail me, I'll have to try the
DOpus trial version.

Windows is lacking in usability for proficient users, it is dumbed down
for the masses. I use it to boot the computer into life then for
virtually everything else I use third party software.

That lack of usability for proficient users in Windows has always frustrated
me. I was used to being able to do more, see more, and know more about the
"innards" when I was an Atari user.

Try one of the free file managers like Freecommmander, I am sure you
will get much more satisfaction.

I'll get it downloaded later. Thanks for the suggestion.

Google for free file managers and try them all.
DOpus trial version is for 60 days so well worth giving it a try.
There are plenty of videos on You Tube for using DOpus, here's a sample

 

[mick]

I forgot to ask if you've ever thought about using Linux? I keep trying to
find time to really try a version, but there never seems to be enough time.

No not really, I'm a bit long in the tooth now, I just like playing
around with all sorts of software, learning a new operating system is
perhaps one step too far

 

[mick]

On 11/8/12 9:33 AM, Wolf K wrote:
[snip]

Sounds like you need a real database. "Libraries" is a half-hearted
attempt to create a filing system like a database.

But using a database seems to be a bit of overkill just to have a change
in the way you can view folder/directory contents.

Why is it overkill to get the data presented in a useful manner?

The hierarchical view is often useful, but it is limited. When
its limits get pointed out, often, the response is belittle the
requirement. I have similar requirements with some E-mail. Some of
them, I would like to have in more than one mailbox. Eudora does not
do this.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko[/QUOTE]

Microsoft Outlook does. LOL
It is years since I used Eudora. Does it not allow you to create
additional mailboxes then filter copies to those other mailboxes as
they arrive in the main inbox.

 

[Char Jackson]

The hierarchical view is often useful, but it is limited. When
its limits get pointed out, often, the response is belittle the
requirement. I have similar requirements with some E-mail. Some of
them, I would like to have in more than one mailbox. Eudora does not
do this.

I use Outlook 2010 to make email appear to be in more than one folder,
if I'm understanding you correctly. The feature I'm talking about is
called Search Folders.

 

[mick]

The hierarchical view is often useful, but it is limited. When
its limits get pointed out, often, the response is belittle the
requirement. I have similar requirements with some E-mail. Some of
them, I would like to have in more than one mailbox. Eudora does not
do this.

I use Outlook 2010 to make email appear to be in more than one folder,
if I'm understanding you correctly. The feature I'm talking about is
called Search Folders.[/QUOTE]

You can physically have the same email in more than one folder by
creating a rule that; moves a copy to a specified folder(s).

 

[Char Jackson]

You can physically have the same email in more than one folder by
creating a rule that; moves a copy to a specified folder(s).

Yes I can, but I don't want to.
One copy of any individual email is enough for me, and I can have it
appear in as many folders as I like.

 

[Ken Springer]

No not really, I'm a bit long in the tooth now, I just like playing
around with all sorts of software, learning a new operating system is
perhaps one step too far

Now the question is, who's longer in the tooth. 65 this coming January,
but getting the curiosity back that I had in my Atari days.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 16.0.1
Thunderbird 16.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.6.2

 

[Ken Springer]

Well, here is my opinion, windows explorer is a waste of time,
libraries are for those people who have no organisational skills in
keeping a tidy and meaningful structure to their computer folders and
files.

Agreed, I've seen a lot of Windows Explorer replacements that are more to my
liking.

Tags are saved to files as metadata. Tag a docx in DOpus and you will
see the tag in WExplorer if I sent it to you. I have many downloaded
.pdf's tagged by other people, I can see (and search) the tags in DOpus
but cannot see or tag them in WExplorer. Tag any file in DOPus and you
will see it in ACDsee, tag any file in ACDsee and you will see it in
DOpus but in WExplorer you will only see what Microsoft thinks you need
to see:-[

When I get the time, and if my memory doesn't fail me, I'll have to try the
DOpus trial version.

Windows is lacking in usability for proficient users, it is dumbed down
for the masses. I use it to boot the computer into life then for
virtually everything else I use third party software.

That lack of usability for proficient users in Windows has always frustrated
me. I was used to being able to do more, see more, and know more about the
"innards" when I was an Atari user.

Try one of the free file managers like Freecommmander, I am sure you
will get much more satisfaction.

I'll get it downloaded later. Thanks for the suggestion.

Google for free file managers and try them all.
DOpus trial version is for 60 days so well worth giving it a try.
There are plenty of videos on You Tube for using DOpus, here's a sample

The playing is going to have to wait for a bit. I'm doing the library
research on a Win7 machine I'm getting ready for donation to a social
agency. Just waiting for the inkjet cartridges for the printer to get
here. Then reinstall a system image, and it's out the door.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 16.0.1
Thunderbird 16.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.6.2

 

[Ken Springer]

Well, here is my opinion, windows explorer is a waste of time,
libraries are for those people who have no organisational skills in
keeping a tidy and meaningful structure to their computer folders and
files.

Agreed, I've seen a lot of Windows Explorer replacements that are more to my
liking.

Tags are saved to files as metadata. Tag a docx in DOpus and you will
see the tag in WExplorer if I sent it to you. I have many downloaded
.pdf's tagged by other people, I can see (and search) the tags in DOpus
but cannot see or tag them in WExplorer. Tag any file in DOPus and you
will see it in ACDsee, tag any file in ACDsee and you will see it in
DOpus but in WExplorer you will only see what Microsoft thinks you need
to see:-[

When I get the time, and if my memory doesn't fail me, I'll have to try the
DOpus trial version.

Windows is lacking in usability for proficient users, it is dumbed down
for the masses. I use it to boot the computer into life then for
virtually everything else I use third party software.

That lack of usability for proficient users in Windows has always frustrated
me. I was used to being able to do more, see more, and know more about the
"innards" when I was an Atari user.

Try one of the free file managers like Freecommmander, I am sure you
will get much more satisfaction.

I'll get it downloaded later. Thanks for the suggestion.

Google for free file managers and try them all.
DOpus trial version is for 60 days so well worth giving it a try.
There are plenty of videos on You Tube for using DOpus, here's a sample

The playing is going to have to wait for a bit. I'm doing the library
research on a Win7 machine I'm getting ready for donation to a social
agency. Just waiting for the inkjet cartridges for the printer to get
here. Then reinstall a system image, and it's out the door.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 16.0.1
Thunderbird 16.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.6.2

 

[Ken Springer]

On 11/8/12 9:33 AM, Wolf K wrote:
[snip]

Sounds like you need a real database. "Libraries" is a half-hearted
attempt to create a filing system like a database.

But using a database seems to be a bit of overkill just to have a change
in the way you can view folder/directory contents.

Why is it overkill to get the data presented in a useful manner?

For my purpose(s), all I need is the viewing options in a window. Seems
to be a database, assuming we are on the same wavelength with the term
database, would be like using a 9 lb. sledge hammer to reupholster a
chair.

The hierarchical view is often useful, but it is limited. When
its limits get pointed out, often, the response is belittle the
requirement. I have similar requirements with some E-mail. Some of
them, I would like to have in more than one mailbox. Eudora does not
do this.

Hmmmm. Eudora open source, which I'm assuming your using, is based on
the Thunderbird code. TB has filters that seem quite sophisticated. I
think TB would let you do a lot of moving and storing of emails. Might
want to take a look at it. But TB has it's problems, and I need to sort
out a bunch of them, just haven't had the time.

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 16.0.1
Thunderbird 16.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.6.2