Install Nightmare and more.

[Paul]

Thanks Paul for the useful information. I wonder how long it will be
before the SSD prices come down to earth. I am very tempted to get one
just to play with. Maybe for my Notebook PC. ASUS GH73SW-BST6.

What is your opinion on the prospective purchase?

Al

I get the impression they make good boot drives. The C:
on my laptop right now, is 40GB in size, so that's the
smallest one I could consider for an install.

For example, you can get a 40GB for $100. A few people had
this thing die relatively quickly.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226168

http://www.mushkin.com/Digital-Storage/SSDs/MKNSSDCL40GB-DX.aspx

That one is based on SF-1200. And the spec sheet isn't complete.

http://hothardware.com/Reviews/5Way-SSD-RoundUp-Sandforce-vs-JMicron/

The article claims SF-1200 gives around a 2W operating power, so
it's comparable to some of the laptop hard drives. I checked a
WesternDigital 2.5" laptop drive, and it draws 2.5W during
read/write. One thing about SSDs, is they don't remain quiet
when not being used - they can still be busy, moving data around.
It's how the drives "clean house", after they've been tortured by
4K random read/write tests In fact, an SSD can be busy all
night long, doing that kind of cleanup. So the power doesn't
necessarily drop to zero when you're not using it.

So in terms of "early adopter/getting burned", it's only $100.
A larger drive may be more useful to you. A drive based on
SLC rather than MLC, would be nice as well (enterprise class
SSDs use SLC, and SLC has more write cycles than MLC does).
But with SLC flash, there is going to be a price premium.

If you pick one up, check to see if your laptop is set to
"AHCI" mode in the BIOS. A typical laptop comes that way
from the factory (mine did). As far as I know, the "msahci" driver
has TRIM support, which is part of the drive housecleaning.
And on a cheap drive, with little overcapacity, the drive
needs all the help it can get.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIM

Paul

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <[email protected]>, Paul <[email protected]>
writes:
[]

The other thing I found, was a USB3 motherboard header definition.
Quite ambitious, putting two USB3 on a 20 pin header pattern. You'd
have thought a slightly smaller connector and "one port at a time"
header would have been more popular. I bet the cable doesn't bend
very easily.

[]
Assuming it's like earlier USBs, it may be a 20 pin header, but it
probably has two 10 pin cables connected to it. Or aren't the pins
arranged that way?

 

[Allen Drake]

I get the impression they make good boot drives. The C:
on my laptop right now, is 40GB in size, so that's the
smallest one I could consider for an install.

For example, you can get a 40GB for $100. A few people had
this thing die relatively quickly.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226168

http://www.mushkin.com/Digital-Storage/SSDs/MKNSSDCL40GB-DX.aspx

That one is based on SF-1200. And the spec sheet isn't complete.

http://hothardware.com/Reviews/5Way-SSD-RoundUp-Sandforce-vs-JMicron/

The article claims SF-1200 gives around a 2W operating power, so
it's comparable to some of the laptop hard drives. I checked a
WesternDigital 2.5" laptop drive, and it draws 2.5W during
read/write. One thing about SSDs, is they don't remain quiet
when not being used - they can still be busy, moving data around.
It's how the drives "clean house", after they've been tortured by
4K random read/write tests In fact, an SSD can be busy all
night long, doing that kind of cleanup. So the power doesn't
necessarily drop to zero when you're not using it.

So in terms of "early adopter/getting burned", it's only $100.
A larger drive may be more useful to you. A drive based on
SLC rather than MLC, would be nice as well (enterprise class
SSDs use SLC, and SLC has more write cycles than MLC does).
But with SLC flash, there is going to be a price premium.

If you pick one up, check to see if your laptop is set to
"AHCI" mode in the BIOS. A typical laptop comes that way
from the factory (mine did). As far as I know, the "msahci" driver
has TRIM support, which is part of the drive housecleaning.
And on a cheap drive, with little overcapacity, the drive
needs all the help it can get.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIM

Paul

Thanks again Paul. You're a wealth of information. This should keep
me busy for the rest of the weekend.

Al.

 

[Allen Drake]

I get the impression they make good boot drives. The C:
on my laptop right now, is 40GB in size, so that's the
smallest one I could consider for an install.

For example, you can get a 40GB for $100. A few people had
this thing die relatively quickly.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226168

http://www.mushkin.com/Digital-Storage/SSDs/MKNSSDCL40GB-DX.aspx

That one is based on SF-1200. And the spec sheet isn't complete.

http://hothardware.com/Reviews/5Way-SSD-RoundUp-Sandforce-vs-JMicron/

The article claims SF-1200 gives around a 2W operating power, so
it's comparable to some of the laptop hard drives. I checked a
WesternDigital 2.5" laptop drive, and it draws 2.5W during
read/write. One thing about SSDs, is they don't remain quiet
when not being used - they can still be busy, moving data around.
It's how the drives "clean house", after they've been tortured by
4K random read/write tests In fact, an SSD can be busy all
night long, doing that kind of cleanup. So the power doesn't
necessarily drop to zero when you're not using it.

So in terms of "early adopter/getting burned", it's only $100.
A larger drive may be more useful to you. A drive based on
SLC rather than MLC, would be nice as well (enterprise class
SSDs use SLC, and SLC has more write cycles than MLC does).
But with SLC flash, there is going to be a price premium.

If you pick one up, check to see if your laptop is set to
"AHCI" mode in the BIOS. A typical laptop comes that way
from the factory (mine did). As far as I know, the "msahci" driver
has TRIM support, which is part of the drive housecleaning.
And on a cheap drive, with little overcapacity, the drive
needs all the help it can get.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIM

Paul

I just checked out the links you provided. Thanks again. I did see
some that had bad drives but who can complain if you do your homework
and order one anyway you have to be prepared for what you get. The guy
that expected NewEgg to take it back only has to see that the
manufacture warrantee should be in effect. Then there are the cheap
extended warrantee plans you can buy. I guess I will order one today
and hopefully have it some time this week. I want to look into
something larger then 40 Gig though.

Al.

 

[Yousuf Khan]

Isn't this one of the first native USB3 implementations ? And
this article is from June of this year.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4476/amd-a83850-review

There is a benchmark of some sort, comparing the A75 native USB3
to a couple other boards.

AMD chipsets have had USB 3.0 for over a year already, with the
800-series chipsets:

AMD Unveils Versatile AMD 890GX Chipset for High Definition
Entertainment on Virtually Any PC Budget
http://www.amd.com/us/press-releases/pages/amd-890gx-chipset-2010mar1.aspx

The chipset for their new A8 processors (i.e. Llano) is already the 3rd
generation with USB 3.0 support. Intel has been the one dragging its
heals about USB 3.0 so far.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Yousuf Khan]

Apparently the board only has USB 2 connections so the cable needs to
run that way. No biggie. It is an ASUS M4A87TD/USB 3 so it is rather
strange that it has none. I'm not even sure if this USB 3 thing is any
new phenomena when it comes right down to it. Maybe when I get back to
64Bit setup for Video rendering it might be a factor. Maybe as system
backup device it might save some time. I know when I clone drives it's
better to place the destination drive internally. Still waiting for my
SATA 6 to arrive to see if that makes any difference.The only way I
have been tracking drive speed is to time the clone event. When I
rate computers' performance it gives Primary hard disk data transfer
rate a 5.9 while everything else gets 7.4.

I have one external USB 3 drive but haven't really tested it. I just
assumed it was better to get one over USB 2 when I was picking one up
anyway.

According to this, your mobo should have USB3:

ASUSTeK Computer Inc. - Motherboards- ASUS M4A87TD/USB3
http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD_AM3/M4A87TDUSB3/

The big reason for USB3 over USB2 is to get faster transfer speeds out
of storage devices. USB3 is theoretically as fast as the previous
generation SATA 2.0 standard, although the motherboard you got has got a
faster SATA 3.0 also.

So I'd suggest finding out how to enable the USB3 ports, since you paid
for them. The link above should point you to manuals for this mobo.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Allen Drake]

According to this, your mobo should have USB3:

ASUSTeK Computer Inc. - Motherboards- ASUS M4A87TD/USB3
http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD_AM3/M4A87TDUSB3/

The big reason for USB3 over USB2 is to get faster transfer speeds out
of storage devices. USB3 is theoretically as fast as the previous
generation SATA 2.0 standard, although the motherboard you got has got a
faster SATA 3.0 also.

So I'd suggest finding out how to enable the USB3 ports, since you paid
for them. The link above should point you to manuals for this mobo.

Yousuf Khan

I attached a USB 3 drive to the back so that is not an issue. What I
am confused about is the cable in my Antec Nine Hundred Two case that
has me connecting it to a USB3 port on the back. It runs to the front
as though it was going to a front port but non exists. I have two USB
2 ports and a SATA port according to the video reviews on YouTube and
this.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129058

I don't see a header on the board either. Only three USB 2
connections. I was looking for a picture of those to post but I am
looking at the USER Guide and it clearly show the three connectors and
no USB3 to be found. I don't see how the SATA connector on the front
could be active if there is no attachment to the MoBo.

I am confused a bit to say the least.

Al.

 

[Paul]

AMD chipsets have had USB 3.0 for over a year already, with the
800-series chipsets:

AMD Unveils Versatile AMD 890GX Chipset for High Definition
Entertainment on Virtually Any PC Budget
http://www.amd.com/us/press-releases/pages/amd-890gx-chipset-2010mar1.aspx

The chipset for their new A8 processors (i.e. Llano) is already the 3rd
generation with USB 3.0 support. Intel has been the one dragging its
heals about USB 3.0 so far.

Yousuf Khan

http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/chipsets/8-series-integrated/Pages/amd-890gx-chipset.aspx

No USB3 listed there. It makes reference to SB850, which presumably
at the time was the most advanced Southbridge available. And the
Southbridge is where a USB block would be located.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_800_chipset_series

Southbridges

Support for 14 USB 2.0 ports and 2 USB 1.1 ports, 3 integrated EHCI controllers - no
support for USB 3.0 in initial products, early boards based on the chipset used
a NEC chip for USB 3.0 support

No mention of USB3 on the 900 series. (Includes SB950)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_900_chipset_series

I think this diagram, includes an SB850 near the bottom. No USB3.

http://www.pctreiber.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/890fx_block.png

The SB950 has no USB3 showing either.

http://techreport.com/r.x/amd-990fx/block.jpg

AMD got its USB3 block, by buying an IP package
from another company (that was announced somewhere, but
I don't have a link). And as far as I know, it actually
delivered this year.

The only reason I have a half-interest in the topic, is
because it's such a pathetic result for Intel and AMD. That
NEC could beat them by such a time margin... As well as the
other small companies that made a standalone USB3 host chip.

The ironic part, was when the USB3 spec came out, there
was whining and complaining that Intel had an unfair
advantage and would be first to market with USB3
Nothing like being last to market, to prove the whiners wrong

*******

AMD USB3 announcement.

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2043186/amd-usb-fusion-chipsets

"Wed Apr 13 2011

AMD announced that its A75 and A70M Fusion chipsets will be the
first certified 'Superspeed USB' chipsets.

By bringing USB 3.0 support into its Fusion chipsets, AMD has
become the first chip firm to integrate a USB 3.0 controller
into its silicon."

Not all the ports on the A75 chip are USB3, but enough to maintain
a comparable design to the boards that have standalone USB3 chips.
Some of the higher end boards in the past, had two NEC chips so
they could have four USB3 on the back.

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/scree...Fusion_Hub_Controller-Hi-Lvl_110629155227.png

Paul

 

[Paul]

I attached a USB 3 drive to the back so that is not an issue. What I
am confused about is the cable in my Antec Nine Hundred Two case that
has me connecting it to a USB3 port on the back. It runs to the front
as though it was going to a front port but non exists. I have two USB
2 ports and a SATA port according to the video reviews on YouTube and
this.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129058

I don't see a header on the board either. Only three USB 2
connections. I was looking for a picture of those to post but I am
looking at the USER Guide and it clearly show the three connectors and
no USB3 to be found. I don't see how the SATA connector on the front
could be active if there is no attachment to the MoBo.

I am confused a bit to say the least.

Al.

It appears Antec may have placed the instruction manual for the
Nine Hundred Two, in the box of the Nine Hundred Two V3. At least
one reviewer seemed to have that mixup.

The V3 version of that case, has USB3 on the front instead of
ESATA. The other end of the cable, is apparently an external USB3,
rather than the 20 pin ribbon cable type. At least, that's
what the reviewers on Newegg are saying.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129097

"The front USB 3.0 port does not plug into 3.0 headers on the motherboard,
only into an available 3.0 port on the back of the motherboard,
requiring you to have to run a cable out the back of the case and then
back into one of the ports"

And the reason for that, is the lack of motherboards sporting a
USB3 header.

You can buy a PCI Express x1 card like this one, which has an
internal USB3 connector. It's $60. Which is about $35 more than
it should be. Your "short" Antec cable might fit into the internal
connector on the card.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815158208

http://ca.startech.com/media/products/PEXUSB3S11/Manuals/PEXUSB3S11.pdf

That card comes with a "SATA power" connector on the end of the card,
which you connect to your power supply SATA power cable. The purpose
of that, is to create 5V @ 900mA for each USB3 port. A PCI Express
x1 slot would have provision for 12V and 3.3V, but not for 5V as far
as I know. They could easily have put a 12V to 5V regulator on the card,
but it's just easier to use a SATA cable for powering. I think doing it
that way, will also mean the USB3 port can't be used for device charging
when the computer is sleeping. (Some computers wire the USB ports
to +5VSB, so you can charge things.) Not a big deal, as the motherboard
USB2 ports may have been set up that way.

Considering the expense, it's probably easier to just connect
directly to an available USB3 port on the back of the computer
The Antec cable can be left dangling.

Paul

 

[Allen Drake]

It appears Antec may have placed the instruction manual for the
Nine Hundred Two, in the box of the Nine Hundred Two V3. At least
one reviewer seemed to have that mixup.

The V3 version of that case, has USB3 on the front instead of
ESATA. The other end of the cable, is apparently an external USB3,
rather than the 20 pin ribbon cable type. At least, that's
what the reviewers on Newegg are saying.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129097

"The front USB 3.0 port does not plug into 3.0 headers on the motherboard,
only into an available 3.0 port on the back of the motherboard,
requiring you to have to run a cable out the back of the case and then
back into one of the ports"

And the reason for that, is the lack of motherboards sporting a
USB3 header.

You can buy a PCI Express x1 card like this one, which has an
internal USB3 connector. It's $60. Which is about $35 more than
it should be. Your "short" Antec cable might fit into the internal
connector on the card.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815158208

http://ca.startech.com/media/products/PEXUSB3S11/Manuals/PEXUSB3S11.pdf

That card comes with a "SATA power" connector on the end of the card,
which you connect to your power supply SATA power cable. The purpose
of that, is to create 5V @ 900mA for each USB3 port. A PCI Express
x1 slot would have provision for 12V and 3.3V, but not for 5V as far
as I know. They could easily have put a 12V to 5V regulator on the card,
but it's just easier to use a SATA cable for powering. I think doing it
that way, will also mean the USB3 port can't be used for device charging
when the computer is sleeping. (Some computers wire the USB ports
to +5VSB, so you can charge things.) Not a big deal, as the motherboard
USB2 ports may have been set up that way.

Considering the expense, it's probably easier to just connect
directly to an available USB3 port on the back of the computer
The Antec cable can be left dangling.

Paul

Ok, Now I have it figured out. I am one that got the wrong manual
also so I thought I wasn't actually was sold the one I really wanted
after I had everything up and running. I saw the video reviews that
said there was an eSATA on the front so I didn't even check it. Now I
see that I do indeed have the USB3 connector after all. Not that any
of this really matters as I have USB3 on the back that I will most
likely use anyway. I never have any use for cables plugged in to the
front as I think it takes much away from the appearance. Maybe a USB 2
connection for the removable media card but I won't be carrying around
a portable HDD that can be dropped and damaged. I guess that issue is
solved and I have no need for a USB3 header. Nice of ANTEC to think of
us and add that cable after all.

There seems to be no real way of telling if you have V3 unless you
look for the subtle differences as there is no printed material or
anything on the box.

Al.

 

[Dominique]

Allen Drake <[email protected]> écrivait

I don't see a header on the board either. Only three USB 2
connections. I was looking for a picture of those to post but I am
looking at the USER Guide and it clearly show the three connectors and
no USB3 to be found. I don't see how the SATA connector on the front
could be active if there is no attachment to the MoBo.

I am confused a bit to say the least.

Al.

If you have an eSATA connector on the front, it goes to a SATA connector on
the motherboard.

 

[Allen Drake]

Allen Drake <[email protected]> écrivait



If you have an eSATA connector on the front, it goes to a SATA connector on
the motherboard.

I thought I had an eSATA on the front but it turned about to be USB3
and no connection on the MoBo. This is why ANTEC supplied a cable that
connects to a USB3 port on the rear. There was some confusion as to
what case I actually had. The manual is for the Nine Hundred Two but I
have the V3 release. I do have six SATA connections on the board which
is nice I guess if anyone actually wants to have a system with so many
drives.

I think everything is cleared up now.

Thanks.

Al.

 

[Char Jackson]

I do have six SATA connections on the board which
is nice I guess if anyone actually wants to have a system with so many
drives.

My media server has 16 SATA ports, 8 on the mobo and 8 more via a
controller card. Each of those is populated with a 2TB drive and I
have 4 more 2TB drives connected externally via USB. It may not be
common "to have a system with so many drives" but there are a few of
us out there.

 

[Allen Drake]

My media server has 16 SATA ports, 8 on the mobo and 8 more via a
controller card. Each of those is populated with a 2TB drive and I
have 4 more 2TB drives connected externally via USB. It may not be
common "to have a system with so many drives" but there are a few of
us out there.

Sure, servers will have many drives but for the common PC user or
gamer like this case was built for I would think it is not necessary
and a hindrance. I have well over two dozen drives in four desktops
but most sit on a shelf in USB cases as backup and storage. I felt
keeping them all hot would take away from their life span.

Al.