I just want a simple wired broadbad connection!

[Char Jackson]

Sorry to jump in. Vonage is a voip modem.

Which Vonage adapter includes a modem? I haven't seen one of those.
Can you provide a link?

Here's a link to the first Vonage adapter that I ever used.
<http://www.amazon.com/Cisco-WRTP54G...247904&sr=1-1&keywords=vonage+wireless+router>
It was a piece o'crap, to be nice about it. It's basically a Linksys
wireless router running customized firmware. Avoid it.

This was my second Vonage adapter, a D-Link VTA-VR device.
<http://www.amazon.com/D-Link-VTA-VR-Broadband-Telephone-Adapter/dp/B000FCTAP4>
This device has been in service at my house since approximately 2006
and has been flawless. It simply plugs into my LAN and has no
aspirations to be a router or anything other than a SIP adapter.

 

[Char Jackson]

Is Valery back?

I don't think so, but I can see why you'd suggest it. ;-)

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Looks like

It looks like a very thorough write up that (if I can remember the
ideas) should help me in the future. It certainly helps me now to
realize why the tech support people tell me to power up the units in
that certain order...

Thanks.

The major clipping seemed appropriate to save people from scrolling a
long way just to see my remarks above

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

I don't think so, but I can see why you'd suggest it. ;-)

Yeah, I had the V thought too, but the styles are different.

 

[Ken1943]

Which Vonage adapter includes a modem? I haven't seen one of those.
Can you provide a link?

Here's a link to the first Vonage adapter that I ever used.
<http://www.amazon.com/Cisco-WRTP54G...247904&sr=1-1&keywords=vonage+wireless+router>
It was a piece o'crap, to be nice about it. It's basically a Linksys
wireless router running customized firmware. Avoid it.

This was my second Vonage adapter, a D-Link VTA-VR device.
<http://www.amazon.com/D-Link-VTA-VR-Broadband-Telephone-Adapter/dp/B000FCTAP4>
This device has been in service at my house since approximately 2006
and has been flawless. It simply plugs into my LAN and has no
aspirations to be a router or anything other than a SIP adapter.

I guess modem was the wrong word. Adapter would have been closer. The
adapter I have has one jack to modem or router and one for computer (lan)
the lan jack does do nat. Never looked at the programming or the lan
side. Just plugged the thing in to my router and away I went.

I think mine was made by Motorola. Got it in 2009 and I may still have
the one before it around.


KenW

 

[DJT]

Looks like you are using dynamic IP addressing for the router and your
intranet hosts. That means the upstream DHCP server *must* be present
BEFORE you have the downstream host bind to (ask for) an IP address.

For your intranet hosts, they are the downstream nodes in your network
as they are likely configured to use DHCP to get dynamically assigned IP
addresses. To them, the upstream DHCP server built into the router.

For your router, its upstream DHCP server is your ISP's DHCP server
(through the cable modem).

For DHCP to work means the upstream DHCP server must already be running
and accessible to the downstream host. To get a dynamic IP address
assigned to a host means its upstream DHCP must be ready to dole one
out. If the upstream DHCP server is not available, from where is the
downstream host going to request an IP address? If a host cannot find
its upstream DHCP server, it will fallback and assign a private IP
address called APIPA (automatic private IP addressing) but which is not
usable for networking past the router. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apipa
http://compnetworking.about.com/cs/protocolsdhcp/g/bldef_apipa.htm

If I see an intranet host with a 169.x.x.x APIPA address then I know the
host couldn't find its upstream DHCP server at the time it tried to
bind. If I see the router has an 169.x.x.x APIPA address then I know
the ISP's DHCP server wasn't available at the time the router tried to
create a binding. In those cases, and if the upstread DHCP servers were
available, the problem was binding in the wrong order (bottom-up instead
of top-down). APIPA addresses cannot get past the network segment in
which they are defined hence they cannot be used to get past the router
out to the Internet.

Unlike the 2nd article indicates, I'm not auto-renegotiation is
guaranteed. That is, when the upstream DHCP server becomes available
doesn't mean your host is going to then initiate a renegotiation with
the DHCP server to get an IP address that is usable outside the network
segment. I've had to do a release and renew to release the old binding
and force a new binding.

To avoid APIPA addressing and to ensure the upstream DHCP server is
already available when you bring up a host that wants an IP binding, you
power up in top-down order, not bottom-up, as in:

- Power it all down: cable modem, router, and all intranet hosts.
- Power up only the cable modem and let it stabilize (takes about a
minute).
- Then power up the router and let it stabilize. It will now get its
dynamically assigned IP address from your ISP (because their DHCP
server is already ready).
- Lastly power up each intranet host. It will get its dynamically
assigned IP address from your router's built-in DHCP server.

For a host to get (bind to) a dynamically assigned IP address means its
DHCP server has to already be available. It looks like you've been
yanking and plugging cables without the proper power cycling sequence or
binding in the proper order or forcing a rebind. This isn't like
plugging in audio cables. Binding requires negotiation and that means
the DHCP server has to be ready so it can handle a request from the
client. Doing a release (unbind) and renew still requires doing them in
proper order although sometimes it will work out of order.

The above doesn't apply if you configure the TCP/IP properties on your
intranet hosts to use static IP addresses. Then they don't need to have
an already running DHCP server from which to get one; however, that also
means you have to configure which DNS server(s) you will use to resolve
hostnames into IP addresses (humans like names whereas computers always
address each other using numbers). Yet even with static IP address, it
is likely you have not paid or do not get a static IP address from your
ISP (for use by the WAN-side of your router). That means even if you
use static IP addresses for your intranet hosts that you will still need
to use dynamic IP addressing by your router to assign its WAN-side IP
address (the IP address that all sites to which you connect will see).
If you have paid (or get one free with your service) for a static IP
address from your ISP then you need to make sure your router is also
configured to *not* use DHCP to get its IP address and instead you punch
into its config screens the static IP address that your ISP assigned to
you.

If you leave the cable modem, router, and intranet hosts all powered up
and they stay powered up when you go yanking and plugging in CAT5
cables, the current binding in the intranet hosts may no longer be
valid. You need to force a rebind. Power cycling a host is one way to
force a new bind. Another is to run "ipconfig /release *" (release all
bindings) followed by "ipconfig /renew" (to create a new binding). Yet
I've seen TCP/IP setup get screwed up somehow that the command doesn't
work yet a power cycle (in proper order as noted above) will work.
Although binding have an expiration, I've seen routers that have an old
dynamic IP address that the ISP's DHCP server no longer permits to
connect into and through their network. They do some maintainence, your
old IP address (on the WAN-side of the router) is no longer valid, the
router doesn't renegotiate, and the ISP has expired that old binding so
it won't permit its use. You can network between your intranet hosts
but not out from the router because your ISP doesn't think you own that
old IP address anymore. In that case, there usually is a IP reset
function somewhere in the router's config screens. It might be called
Reset or have the 2 separate release and renew functions mentioned for
the ipconfig command (but runs within the router). I have encountered
many times when Internet access stops because the router's WAN-side IP
address previously assigned by my ISP's DHCP server is no longer valid
but the router doesn't renegotiate (or the ISP's DHCP wouldn't do it).
The cure was to go to the router's config screen where it lets me click
on Release (to unbind) and Renew (to bind by asking the ISP's DHCP
server for a new assignment).

It's possible to figure out at which point the binding is no longer
valid but often it is easier and quicker to simply power it all down and
then power up in top-down order: cable modem, router, then host(s).

It sounds like your system is tying to dialup instead of connecting to
Internet Thru Router.

There is a place somewhere where there is an option to look for the
internet via Dialup or via Lan but I cannot remember where it is


DJT

 

[VanguardLH]

It sounds like your system is tying to dialup instead of connecting to
Internet Thru Router.

There is a place somewhere where there is an option to look for the
internet via Dialup or via Lan but I cannot remember where it is

That might be an issue with the OP, not with me. It's been probably 15
years, or more, since I last used dial-up Internet access so I don't
remember the exact progress of making such a connection; however, as I
recall, you would see a popup window showing the progress of the dial-up
connection attempt.

Please note that it is considered polite to trim the quoted content in a
reply post. Thanks.

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Why is connecting to the internet with this OS so damn difficult!
I have 2 windows 7 pcs, 1 home the other pro, neither will connect
thought the XP machine I'm using to type this is working fine.
MY ROUTER IS WIRED. NO wireless advice please.
Can some one point out a program or a really good gide to set up a siple
broadband connection on a wired router with a ISP that doest require a
log in.
I'm desparate.

Having read this thread with increasing bemusement, I think we need to
establish from first principles what you have. (I assume "thought" above
was meant to be "though" rather than "through", i. e. you _aren't_
trying to connect _via_ the XP machine.)

Let's avoid names like router, modem, switch, host.

You have box 1 connected to the cable from your ISP provider.
What make and model is box 1?
What are the ports to which you have cables connected, labelled? Are
there any other ports on it (box 1) that you have nothing connected to,
and if so what are _they_ labelled?

You have box 2 connected to box 1, and you are connecting all your
computers to box 2.
What make and model is box 2?
What are the ports to which you have cables connected, labelled? (List
the one connected to box 1 separately to the ones connected to your
computers.) Are there any other ports on it (box 2) that you have
nothing connected to, and if so what are _they_ labelled?

(Semi-)finally, are all your cables the same (standard, non-crossover,
ethernet cables, without faults)?

Finally, I think you mentioned that you've tried connecting each
computer in turn, on its own, to box 1, i. e. not using box 2 at all. I
think you said the "XP" computer could get internet access that way, but
the "7" computers couldn't. This last suggests the problem is not with
either box 1 or box 2 at all, but with how you're trying to set up the
"7" computers. (Which I think should not require any "setting up" at
all, but should just _work_; however, I'm not sufficiently familiar with
7 to be sure.)

 

[Paul]

Having read this thread with increasing bemusement, I think we need to
establish from first principles what you have. (I assume "thought" above
was meant to be "though" rather than "through", i. e. you _aren't_
trying to connect _via_ the XP machine.)

Let's avoid names like router, modem, switch, host.

You have box 1 connected to the cable from your ISP provider.
What make and model is box 1?
What are the ports to which you have cables connected, labelled? Are
there any other ports on it (box 1) that you have nothing connected to,
and if so what are _they_ labelled?

You have box 2 connected to box 1, and you are connecting all your
computers to box 2.
What make and model is box 2?
What are the ports to which you have cables connected, labelled? (List
the one connected to box 1 separately to the ones connected to your
computers.) Are there any other ports on it (box 2) that you have
nothing connected to, and if so what are _they_ labelled?

(Semi-)finally, are all your cables the same (standard, non-crossover,
ethernet cables, without faults)?

Finally, I think you mentioned that you've tried connecting each
computer in turn, on its own, to box 1, i. e. not using box 2 at all. I
think you said the "XP" computer could get internet access that way, but
the "7" computers couldn't. This last suggests the problem is not with
either box 1 or box 2 at all, but with how you're trying to set up the
"7" computers. (Which I think should not require any "setting up" at
all, but should just _work_; however, I'm not sufficiently familiar with
7 to be sure.)

Once the Vonage box entered the picture, I kinda lost interest.

What happens with people who have network problems, is they're switching
the boxes around faster than they can keep track of them. So the
chances of fixing this, using information from the poster, are
just about zero.

My best advice is:

1) Return to the simplest configuration that works. Get
your computers connected again. Remove the Vonage box, awaiting
further instructions.

2) Give a "grocery list" of the boxes here, like

Vonage VOIP model 1234
Cable Modem Surfboard model 5678
Cisco Router model 9ABC
WinXP Computer Dell D400 with 100BT Ethernet
Windows 7 Dell 9000 with GbE Ethernet

so we can see all the "assets" and have some idea what needs
to be connected together. Maybe our contribution here, can be
to get the boxes connected in the right order, and then let the
OP take a crack at configuration.

Windows is pretty good at getting the networking to work...
assuming there is actual working networking to begin with.
If the "chain of boxes" is stuffed, Windows can't work a miracle.

Paul

 

[Char Jackson]

Having read this thread with increasing bemusement, I think we need to
establish from first principles what you have. (I assume "thought" above
was meant to be "though" rather than "through", i. e. you _aren't_
trying to connect _via_ the XP machine.)

Let's avoid names like router, modem, switch, host.

You just lost me. If the "boxes" can't be called what they are, then
all hope is lost.

 

[Paul]

Once the Vonage box entered the picture, I kinda lost interest.

What happens with people who have network problems, is they're switching
the boxes around faster than they can keep track of them. So the
chances of fixing this, using information from the poster, are
just about zero.

My best advice is:

1) Return to the simplest configuration that works. Get
your computers connected again. Remove the Vonage box, awaiting
further instructions.

2) Give a "grocery list" of the boxes here, like

Vonage VOIP model 1234
Cable Modem Surfboard model 5678
Cisco Router model 9ABC
WinXP Computer Dell D400 with 100BT Ethernet
Windows 7 Dell 9000 with GbE Ethernet

so we can see all the "assets" and have some idea what needs
to be connected together. Maybe our contribution here, can be
to get the boxes connected in the right order, and then let the
OP take a crack at configuration.

Windows is pretty good at getting the networking to work...
assuming there is actual working networking to begin with.
If the "chain of boxes" is stuffed, Windows can't work a miracle.

Paul

I see Vonage, does provide information on setup.

It could be very simple matter. The Vonage box can be plugged into
the LAN port of your existing setup. In other words, you could
have left your existing networking setup as is, and connected the Vonage
"downstream".

To start:

Go to this page, scroll to the bottom, click item 10 "Does Vonage provide
installation services". In the terse answer, there is a link to a
video. The video shows how to connect the Vonage downstream of
your existing setup. You'll need a browser with an Adobe Flash plugin,
to view the movie (since I only have Flash in IE, I had to switch
browsers to enjoy the movie).

http://www.vonage.com/how_vonage_works/

*******

The Vonage box also comes with a manual. A web manual.

https://support.vonage.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1043/~/vonage-box-web-user-interface

The Vonage box, is actually a combination 1 port router and 2xRJ11 VOIP box.

The WAN port, is the one you'd be using to connect to the existing (upsteam)
router.

But the LAN port, the other port on the box, can be used for web configuration.
You can connect your PC to the LAN port, during initial configuration (leaving
the WAN part disconnected for simplicity). The only reason for doing this,
would be to check whether your Vonage box was used, and had been custom
configured by another Vonage client, and was messed up. Otherwise, you
might not need to get in there.

You'll find just about as many settings in the Vonage box, as you'd find
in a regular router.

Why does the Vonage box have a router inside ? It's for flexibility. While
they don't describe some of the other options, there are other ways
the box could be connected. The one I have in mind, is the "traditional"
VOIP box connection method.

So, to review, this is the Vonage recommended, "downstream" setup.

<cable> --- modem --- router --- computer #1
--- computer #2
--- computer #3
--- Vonage Box (use the left-most Vonage WAN port
and the Vonage provided cabling)

( their picture... https://support.vonage.com/euf/assets/images/4019_10.gif )

If we looked back in history, VOIP boxes at one time, connected like this.
(Vonage doesn't document this on the web manual page... So I'm making this up )
They used to be done this way, because the VOIP protocol used a ton of
network port numbers. Having the box upstream of your home router, allowed
it "first pick" of port numbers. It's so the router couldn't interfere with
things, or require a comp.sci degree to program the port forwarding on the
router box (if done in the other order). I had trouble, when learning about
this stuff, to find enough documentation on the control plane and data transport
plane, to understand why this way was so complicated.

WAN LAN
<cable> --- modem --- Vonage --- router --- computer #1
--- computer #2
--- computer #3
---

The implication of the Vonage method, is regular VOIP protocol cannot
be used by that box. It's using another transport protocol of some sort.
So the way they're doing this, might not be "pure" VOIP for all I know.
But the protocol differences were done, to make this setup easier for
the user. In the same way that Skype can "burrow" through a router,
the Vonage box could well be doing something similar. The idea is,
whatever it's doing, is to reduce or eliminate "help desk phone calls".
The protocol, of necessity here, must be simpler.

<cable> --- modem --- router --- computer #1
--- computer #2
--- computer #3
--- Vonage Box (use the left-most WAN port)

So if you needed to review the Vonage internal setup, you'd connect
a PC like this. The Vonage would need to be powered, after you'd
set up the networking cable from the computer. The Vonage web manual,
describes what IP address to use, to reach the box with a web browser
( http://192.168.15.1 ). That's the URL you type into the computer
web browser, once this is up and running.

WAN LAN
X --- Vonage --- computer #3

Anyway, Vonage has help if you need it.

Paul

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

You just lost me. If the "boxes" can't be called what they are, then
all hope is lost.

Well, John isn't dumb enough to not want to know that, so I thought he
was reacting to spottbunny's propensity to tell us nothing by giving her
a simplified recipe to use.

 

[Char Jackson]

Well, John isn't dumb enough to not want to know that, so I thought he
was reacting to spottbunny's propensity to tell us nothing by giving her
a simplified recipe to use.

Yep, I know why he suggested it, but I completely disagree with that
approach. IMO, the discussion should _start_ with an understanding of
the types of hardware involved.

 

[Char Jackson]

I see Vonage, does provide information on setup.

But of course.

The Vonage box also comes with a manual. A web manual.

https://support.vonage.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1043/~/vonage-box-web-user-interface

The Vonage box, is actually a combination 1 port router and 2xRJ11 VOIP box.

Be careful when describing "the" Vonage box. I already provided links
to two completely different types of Vonage adapters, and you've just
described a third type. Each of them is used differently from the
others.

Anyway, Vonage has help if you need it.

Naturally.

 

[Gene Wirchenko]

On Sun, 19 Aug 2012 16:46:03 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
[snip]

Well, John isn't dumb enough to not want to know that, so I thought he
was reacting to spottbunny's propensity to tell us nothing by giving her
a simplified recipe to use.

Yep, I know why he suggested it, but I completely disagree with that
approach. IMO, the discussion should _start_ with an understanding of
the types of hardware involved.

Whereas I do agree with it. One big problem with non-technical
people is that they often misuse technical terms. That would bypass
this. Then, someone can say, "Oh, you have _____." and a solution can
be worked out. Before educating someone, sometimes, you have to strip
out false data.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

 

[VanguardLH]

Having read this thread with increasing bemusement, I think we need to
establish from first principles what you have. (I assume "thought" above
was meant to be "though" rather than "through", i. e. you _aren't_
trying to connect _via_ the XP machine.)

Let's avoid names like router, modem, switch, host.

<snipped the diagnosis based on lack of naming the parts>

So let's call all motorized vehicles on public roads as just cars.
Sorry, but I don't want that 18-wheeler huge "car" (that the rest of us
call a semi) to be trying to park into my garage means for other "cars"
(which the rest of us call passenger cars).

Without attaching a video to show us at what "box" you are pointing, the
whole discussion becomes trivial since no one now where you are pointing
to obfuscated named figures.

The OP isn't well educated regarding networking but neither does he
appear incapable of differentiating cable modem, router, and host
(computer) from each other.

 

[DanS]

If TW is like Comcast, and I suspect it is, then Internet
and TV are cheaper than Internet alone.

Well I've got T/W.......

......and getting robbed every month for $160 for internet & cable TV w/about $40 of that
being equipment and the bogus "DVR service" fees.

They have a "Lite" internet that's like $22/month, and standard I think around $60/month.

.....so it's not cheaper.

Now...if I added internet phone, *then* it would be cheaper. I'd only end up paying
$120/month for the same TV/Internet *PLUS* phone, for 1 yr. Then it goes up to $190 for
the three after a year.

 

[DanS]

snip

It had plenty to do with Windows 7. I got on immediatly
with XP. I had to shut down IPv6 to get the 7 Pro machine
back on and re-install a router for the 7 home machine.

None of which have anything to do with the modem.

Windows 7 keep spewing out meaningless error codes about
dial up or wireless connections, neither of which I have.
snip
snip
I don't pay for the cable.

Then who cares.

 

[Char Jackson]

Well I've got T/W.......

.....and getting robbed every month for $160 for internet & cable TV w/about $40 of that
being equipment and the bogus "DVR service" fees.

They have a "Lite" internet that's like $22/month, and standard I think around $60/month.

....so it's not cheaper.

Now...if I added internet phone, *then* it would be cheaper. I'd only end up paying
$120/month for the same TV/Internet *PLUS* phone, for 1 yr. Then it goes up to $190 for
the three after a year.

Let me respond with a simpler example, if I may, using rounded numbers
from Comcast in my area. I have the most common mid-tier Internet
service, 12 Mbps downstream, and Basic Cable TV service. Together,
they cost me about $54 a month.

I don't use Comcast's cable TV service, but if I ask them to remove it
from my account, my Internet service cost will increase to about $63 a
month as the bundling discount gets removed. With that in mind, I'm
obviously better off keeping the TV service even though I don't use
it.

That's what I was referring to above when I suggested it might be
cheaper to keep the unwanted TV service.

 

[DanS]

Let me respond with a simpler example, if I may, using
rounded numbers from Comcast in my area. I have the most
common mid-tier Internet service, 12 Mbps downstream, and
Basic Cable TV service. Together, they cost me about $54 a
month.

I don't use Comcast's cable TV service, but if I ask them
to remove it from my account, my Internet service cost will
increase to about $63 a month as the bundling discount gets
removed. With that in mind, I'm obviously better off
keeping the TV service even though I don't use it.

That's what I was referring to above when I suggested it
might be cheaper to keep the unwanted TV service.

But, not anything like you said...."If TW is like Comcast, and I suspect it is, then Internet
and TV are cheaper than Internet alone."...which really has no other meaning than what
I interpreted.