L
L
Lieutenant Scott
The most expensive thing in any business is the staff wages. It never makes sense to scrimp on something as cheap as a computer part and make the staff work longer hours.Have you ever worked in a small business where you were not the owner /
guy who has the power to buy newer computer equipment? It is common in
small business environments to wring every last bit of usefulness out
of a given piece of equipment before upgrading or replacing it. Lower-
level employees especially learn to "make do" with what they have,
deleting the oldest files to make room for the new, learning when to
start a particular long-running process so that they take a coffee
break / lunch break or even leave for the day so it is done when they
return. Not everyone has the luxury of upgrading or replacing computer
equipment on demand, in fact, few in the business world do.
Been discussed before. I have no desire to limit my length to a specific value, it's meant to be auto-wrapping at your end, look up the "format flowed" RFC.BTW, you should consider setting the line length on your newsreader to
something shorter, say 72 characters, so that it breaks lines in your
posts at more reasonable length.
If you can work out what part of the RFC my newsreader breaks (I don't know if it's mine or yours that isn't following it correctly) then let me know and I'll pass it on to the programmers, because nobody's worked it out yet.
It only seems to upset the lesser known newsreaders like Gravity and Turnpike, while Agent and the dreaded Outhouse Distress read my posts ok. It could be that they're less fussy about incorrect formatting, or it could be that they follow a later RFC, I don't know.
But what makes no sense at all is how ANYTHING my newsreader does could stop yours from wrapping when it hits the edge of your screen.
--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com
Six stages of married life:
1: Tri-weekly
2: Try weekly
3: Try weakly
4. Try oysters
5: Try anything
6: Try to remember
J
John Williamson
Lieutenant said:Why buy more than I need? The data held can easily be increased at anyLieutenant said:On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 20:45:11 -0000, John Williamson
Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 20:27:32 -0000, Philip Herlihy
<[email protected]>
wrote:
I wasn't referring to your "system falls over", I was just surprised you
have a system that doesn't increase in size.
time without touching the system by adding external drives. I know what
I want on the system disc before I build the system.
My systems do expand over time, though. This laptop started with a 160
Gig HD in it early this year, and now has double that. Another one I use
regularly started with a massive 80 Gig, (The biggest offered at the
time) and now has a puny 500 Gig. I don't trust the terabyte laptop
drives yet. They've both got rather more RAM than they came from the
factory with, too.
L
Lieutenant Scott
What I meant was the size of the system disk increasing, as opposed to the data disk. It's easier, and faster, to have a system disk double the size of what you need now.Why buy more than I need? The data held can easily be increased at any
time without touching the system by adding external drives. I know what
I want on the system disc before I build the system.
My systems do expand over time, though. This laptop started with a 160
Gig HD in it early this year, and now has double that. Another one I use
regularly started with a massive 80 Gig, (The biggest offered at the
time) and now has a puny 500 Gig. I don't trust the terabyte laptop
drives yet. They've both got rather more RAM than they came from the
factory with, too.
J
John Williamson
I say again. My system discs are of adequate size and do not need toLieutenant said:What I meant was the size of the system disk increasing, as opposed to
the data disk. It's easier, and faster, to have a system disk double
the size of what you need now.
grow during the working life of the system. They do not limit either the
number of programs I have installed or the size of the swapfile. I also
install enough RAM that a swapfile isn't really needed anyway for my
pattern of usage. The only improvement in speed would be from installing
an SSD instead of the HD, but that would probably mean disabling swap
and installing more RAM to compensate, unless SSD write life has
improved greatly since last time I looked.
I've only been building Wintel PCs on very limited budgets for 30 years,
after all.
G
Gene E. Bloch
On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 21:19:47 -0000, Zaphod Beeblebrox
The most expensive thing in any business is the staff wages. It never makes
sense to scrimp on something as cheap as a computer part and make the staff
work longer hours.
Been discussed before. I have no desire to limit my length to a specific
value, it's meant to be auto-wrapping at your end, look up the "format
flowed" RFC.
If you can work out what part of the RFC my newsreader breaks (I don't know
if it's mine or yours that isn't following it correctly) then let me know and
I'll pass it on to the programmers, because nobody's worked it out yet.
It only seems to upset the lesser known newsreaders like Gravity and
Turnpike, while Agent and the dreaded Outhouse Distress read my posts ok. It
could be that they're less fussy about incorrect formatting, or it could be
that they follow a later RFC, I don't know.
I switch between two newsreaders. Currently MesNews, alternativelyBut what makes no sense at all is how ANYTHING my newsreader does could stop
yours from wrapping when it hits the edge of your screen.
40tude Dialog. Both are happy with your lines, even when I change the
width of the message pane.
In quoted text, things get messy in Dialog, but look OK in MesNews.
This is based on about 10 seconds each of changing the width of the
pane, so maybe it's not definitive.
Z
Zaphod Beeblebrox
To you perhaps, but many business don't look at things that way. It isThe most expensive thing in any business is the staff wages. It never
makes sense to scrimp on something as cheap as a computer part and
make the staff work longer hours.
unfortunately very common for staff to limp along with computer
equipment that was fully depreciated years ago and is barely able to
perform the functions asked of it. That, along with non-existent
maintenance, produces machines that benefit greatly from defragmenting
and other basic procedures.
Oh, it doesn't upset my reader in the least. When the text hits theBeen discussed before. I have no desire to limit my length to a
specific value, it's meant to be auto-wrapping at your end, look up
the "format flowed" RFC.
If you can work out what part of the RFC my newsreader breaks (I
don't know if it's mine or yours that isn't following it correctly)
then let me know and I'll pass it on to the programmers, because
nobody's worked it out yet.
It only seems to upset the lesser known newsreaders like Gravity and
Turnpike, while Agent and the dreaded Outhouse Distress read my posts
ok. It could be that they're less fussy about incorrect formatting,
or it could be that they follow a later RFC, I don't know.
But what makes no sense at all is how ANYTHING my newsreader does
could stop yours from wrapping when it hits the edge of your screen.
edge of the window, it line wraps. When my reader window is relatively
wide (as it often is for reasons I'll not go into), it makes it harder
to read.
Your desire notwithstanding, as I have always been taught and have read
in many, many places it is considered proper "Netiquette" to wrap long
lines, and as I understand RFC 2646
(http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2646.txt)
Section 4.1 (Generating Format=Flowed) covers this, and, paragraph 5
specifically states:
A generating agent SHOULD:
1. Ensure all lines (fixed and flowed) are 79 characters or
fewer in length, counting the trailing space but not
counting the CRLF, unless a word by itself exceeds 79
characters.
The generating agent (your newsreader, when it posts an article or
follow-up) should do so. To me, it isn't at all hard to work out.
J
Jolly polly
I only know how to defrag an NTFS volume in Linux using cmd line, are youWolf K said:On 14/11/2012 3:00 AM, Jolly polly wrote:
[...]Boot Linux from a live CD/DVD, and use a defrag utility made to defragHow would a Windows user defrag a drive in Linux? not easy at all
Windows system drive.
Search on "windows defragment from Linux live CD" for more.
able to name a Linux program that can do this?
L
Lieutenant Scott
Don't get an OCZ, they suck. Corsair are 4 times more reliable.I say again. My system discs are of adequate size and do not need to
grow during the working life of the system. They do not limit either the
number of programs I have installed or the size of the swapfile. I also
install enough RAM that a swapfile isn't really needed anyway for my
pattern of usage. The only improvement in speed would be from installing
an SSD instead of the HD, but that would probably mean disabling swap
and installing more RAM to compensate, unless SSD write life has
improved greatly since last time I looked.
I've never tried separating the system that much from the data (installed programs have always gone on the system disk for example), so a fixed system disk size is impossible for me.I've only been building Wintel PCs on very limited budgets for 30 years,
after all.
B
Bob I
Either you don't significantly fragment the drive, or you don't noticeNo you haven't - the speed "increase" has been due to something else.
I've been using Windows ever since 3.1 and /I've/ never noticed any
speed increase...
much. I went a purchased DiskKeeper for Windows 2000 because of
fragmentation due to problems caused by files created by a scanner
littering the HD with files and then timeouts occurring. Each time the
issue came up, defragging the HD restored the speed.
L
Lieutenant Scott
Fortunately I've always worked where managers listen to my recommendation to spend more on IT. An extra £50 won't break the bank. It's less than a day's wages for most users.To you perhaps, but many business don't look at things that way. It is
unfortunately very common for staff to limp along with computer
equipment that was fully depreciated years ago and is barely able to
perform the functions asked of it. That, along with non-existent
maintenance, produces machines that benefit greatly from defragmenting
and other basic procedures.
I don't seem to have a problem reading lines [counts] 180 characters wide, which is what my screen shows. Can your eye not dart back along something that long?Oh, it doesn't upset my reader in the least. When the text hits the
edge of the window, it line wraps. When my reader window is relatively
wide (as it often is for reasons I'll not go into), it makes it harder
to read.
That doesn't make sense to me. I thought the whole idea of format flowed was that it displays at the width the READER desires. For example, I see Gene E. Bloch's text at the width of my screen. If that doesn't suit you, then there's nothing to stop you changing the width you see. I'mnot forcing anything on you.Your desire notwithstanding, as I have always been taught and have read
in many, many places it is considered proper "Netiquette" to wrap long
lines, and as I understand RFC 2646
(http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2646.txt)
Section 4.1 (Generating Format=Flowed) covers this, and, paragraph 5
specifically states:
A generating agent SHOULD:
1. Ensure all lines (fixed and flowed) are 79 characters or
fewer in length, counting the trailing space but not
counting the CRLF, unless a word by itself exceeds 79
characters.
The generating agent (your newsreader, when it posts an article or
follow-up) should do so. To me, it isn't at all hard to work out.
L
Lieutenant Scott
I incorrectly assumed Zaphod had the trouble some Turnpike users have, in that my text goes off the edge of the screen. It seems he just has poor eyesight.I switch between two newsreaders. Currently MesNews, alternatively
40tude Dialog. Both are happy with your lines, even when I change the
width of the message pane.
In quoted text, things get messy in Dialog, but look OK in MesNews.
This is based on about 10 seconds each of changing the width of the
pane, so maybe it's not definitive.
G
Gene Wirchenko
[snip]
very little eye movement. This reduces the possibility of losing sync
considerably.
[snip]
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Sure, but with shorter lines, I can read the entire line withI don't seem to have a problem reading lines [counts] 180 characters wide, which is what my screen shows. Can your eye not dart back along something that long?
very little eye movement. This reduces the possibility of losing sync
considerably.
[snip]
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Z
Zaphod Beeblebrox
You are indeed fortunate then. Fact remains that defragmenting theFortunately I've always worked where managers listen to my
recommendation to spend more on IT. An extra £50 won't break the
bank. It's less than a day's wages for most users.
drive can produce performance benefits for many users.
I don't seem to have a problem reading lines [counts] 180 charactersOh, it doesn't upset my reader in the least. When the text hits the
edge of the window, it line wraps. When my reader window is relatively
wide (as it often is for reasons I'll not go into), it makes it harder
to read.
wide, which is what my screen shows. Can your eye not dart back along
something that long?
There is a reason newspapers and other printed media use narrow columns
of text - it is easier to scan. Has nothing to do with eyesight.
You asked for the relevant reference from the RFC, I provided it.That doesn't make sense to me. I thought the whole idea of format
flowed was that it displays at the width the READER desires.
Whether or not you understand the reasoning, if you choose to ignore it
then you are not being a good "netizen".
But you are. I have to adjust my reader window width from theFor example, I see Gene E. Bloch's text at the width of my screen. If
that doesn't suit you, then there's nothing to stop you changing the
width you see. I'm not forcing anything on you.
configuration I prefer if I want your posts to display properly.
I'm not going to argue the point any further. The RFC is clear, what
you do with it is certainly your choice but if you choose to flout
convention, netiquette and the RFC then you are just being stubborn.
--
Zaphod
Pan-Galactic Gargle Blaster: A cocktail based on Janx Spirit.
The effect of one is like having your brain smashed out
by a slice of lemon wrapped round a large gold brick.
W
Wolf K
Lt Scott's comment displays ignorance of ergonomics. I trust it was a[snip]
Sure, but with shorter lines, I can read the entire line withI don't seem to have a problem reading lines [counts] 180 characters wide, which is what my screen shows. Can your eye not dart back along something that long?
very little eye movement. This reduces the possibility of losing sync
considerably.
[snip]
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
mere momentary lapse.
L
Lieutenant Scott
It displays first hand experience. If you don't like wide lines, then change your display to suit your eyes. We are not all equal.Lt Scott's comment displays ignorance of ergonomics. I trust it was a[snip]
Sure, but with shorter lines, I can read the entire line withI don't seem to have a problem reading lines [counts] 180 characters wide, which is what my screen shows. Can your eye not dart back along something that long?
very little eye movement. This reduces the possibility of losing sync
considerably.
[snip]
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
mere momentary lapse.
I can display your lines and everyone else's at any width I choose.
L
Lieutenant Scott
Half the darts, twice the length of dart. Sync problem equal. Non-existent in both cases for me. Are you 90 years old with specs?Sure, but with shorter lines, I can read the entire line withI don't seem to have a problem reading lines [counts] 180 characters wide, which is what my screen shows. Can your eye not dart back along something that long?
very little eye movement. This reduces the possibility of losing sync
considerably.
L
Lieutenant Scott
It's not easier for me. It's actually annoying having to switch lines every few words in narrow newspaper columns. A scan to the next line is the same amount of effort for me for any length of line.There is a reason newspapers and other printed media use narrow columnsOn Wed, 14 Nov 2012 21:29:52 -0000, "Lieutenant Scott"
<[email protected]>
wrote in article <op.wnr8n2gzytk5n5@i7-940>...I don't seem to have a problem reading lines [counts] 180 charactersBTW, you should consider setting the line length on your newsreader to
something shorter, say 72 characters, so that it breaks lines in your
posts at more reasonable length.
Been discussed before. I have no desire to limit my length to a
specific value, it's meant to be auto-wrapping at your end, look up
the "format flowed" RFC.
If you can work out what part of the RFC my newsreader breaks (I
don't know if it's mine or yours that isn't following it correctly)
then let me know and I'll pass it on to the programmers, because
nobody's worked it out yet.
It only seems to upset the lesser known newsreaders like Gravity and
Turnpike, while Agent and the dreaded Outhouse Distress read my posts
ok. It could be that they're less fussy about incorrect formatting,
or it could be that they follow a later RFC, I don't know.
But what makes no sense at all is how ANYTHING my newsreader does
could stop yours from wrapping when it hits the edge of your screen.
Oh, it doesn't upset my reader in the least. When the text hits the
edge of the window, it line wraps. When my reader window is relatively
wide (as it often is for reasons I'll not go into), it makes it harder
to read.
wide, which is what my screen shows. Can your eye not dart back along
something that long?
of text - it is easier to scan. Has nothing to do with eyesight.
The reason they have narrow columns is twofold - one because they want to cater for the old folk that read a lot of papers, and two because it's easier to lay out several stories on one page like that.
I only wanted to know if Opera was doing something technically wrong so I could pass it on to them. I've yet to see this information.You asked for the relevant reference from the RFC, I provided it.
Whether or not you understand the reasoning,
Netizen indeed. [rolls eyes]if you choose to ignore it
then you are not being a good "netizen".
Why have your article pane width wider than the width you want to read? Why do you like having a blank white area to the right? Simply set the pane to the width you want to read, for everybody's articles. This will make no difference if the article is the same or narrower than what you want, and will make the wider ones your chosen width.But you are. I have to adjust my reader window width from the
configuration I prefer if I want your posts to display properly.
I'm doing what I consider sensible and I've explained why.I'm not going to argue the point any further. The RFC is clear, what
you do with it is certainly your choice but if you choose to flout
convention, netiquette and the RFC then you are just being stubborn.
W
Wolf K
OK, so you're an outlier.It displays first hand experience. If you don't like wide lines, thenLt Scott's comment displays ignorance of ergonomics. I trust it was a[snip]
I don't seem to have a problem reading lines [counts] 180 characters
wide, which is what my screen shows. Can your eye not dart back
along something that long?
Sure, but with shorter lines, I can read the entire line with
very little eye movement. This reduces the possibility of losing sync
considerably.
[snip]
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
mere momentary lapse.
change your display to suit your eyes. We are not all equal.
I can display your lines and everyone else's at any width I choose.
The ergonomic _facts_ are that in general
a) people read columns of about 30-40 characters faster than lines of
70+ characters;
b) people make fewer reading errors (missed or misinterpreted words)
reading columns;
c) ragged edge columns are even easier to read than right justified columns.
Of course you can choose to do what you want.
W
Wolf K
Wrong on both counts, but a good illustration of how one draw aOn Thu, 15 Nov 2012 12:32:59 -0000, Zaphod Beeblebrox
It's not easier for me. It's actually annoying having to switch lines
every few words in narrow newspaper columns. A scan to the next line is
the same amount of effort for me for any length of line.
The reason they have narrow columns is twofold - one because they want
to cater for the old folk that read a lot of papers, and two because
it's easier to lay out several stories on one page like that.
reasonable inference based on insufficient and/or incorrect data.
Printing in columns goes back to before printing: larger books were
almost always written in columns.
Newspaper pages were wider than those of most books, but the composing
sticks used to set the lines of type one character at a time were too
narrow for those wide sheets. So they were printed in columns. Easy to
do, as the pages for most books (8, 12, or 16 at a time) were printed in
columns anyhow. The printed sheet was then folded, and cut to produce a
"gathering" of pages. Several such were combined into a book. Books
larger than octavo (1, 2, or 4 pages to a sheet) were usually printed in
columns for the same reason.
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