Both laptop and desktop Vista and W-7....

[Chuck]

The PC is set to auto-update MS security updates. We didn't install
anything on any of the non-XP machines in weeks. The XP machines are fine.


We already did that and removed the MS updates but that didn't help, nor
did system restores on the 2 Vista and 1 W-7 machine. Again, both XP PCs
are fine and still see their modems.

This sounds like the user wants to use dial up networking. The modem
seems to work as a modem, based upon the log data.
It sounds like dial up networking was never setup.
It's been a bit since I got into this, but as I remember there was some
strangeness in the setups when Both ethernet/USB networking and dial up
networking were used on the same P/C.

When our cable ISP still had standby dialup, we used a router with an
external modem that automatically did all the work. Only some of the
laptops were setup for ethernet, wireless, or dial up.
Some of the older laptop internal modems and even USR internal card P/C
modems just don't work well with win 7 and vista. Some newer laptops had
new modem drivers (mostly registry entry changes)for Vista/Win7.

I have one HP laptop running Vista that I'd really like to change to
Win7, but Win 7 drivers were never released for things like the display,
modem, touchpad, wireless, and the ethernet I/O.
It supposedly can be reverted to WinXP, but I'd have to get a full copy
of XP with a new key for it. Supposedly, the XP drivers are still
available.The XP Disks/CDs I have are all original release, and
difficult to install & update with Sata HDs. Even the keys are so old
that they will not work with a new install of XP SP2? versions.

As far as Vista goes, if the system was supplied with Vista, and the
modem worked, it should still work. You may have redo the network setup.
Also, with Satellite ISPs via a modem, you can run into timeout
problems, and need to do custom modem setups to overcome the problems.

 

[Valorie *~~]

This sounds like the user wants to use dial up networking. The modem seems
to work as a modem, based upon the log data.
It sounds like dial up networking was never setup.
It's been a bit since I got into this, but as I remember there was some
strangeness in the setups when Both ethernet/USB networking and dial up
networking were used on the same P/C.

None of these PCs are net-worked. We had a tech come in a few years ago and
he was unable to set up a working net-work. The PCs at that time were W98s
and XPs. So each PC is on it's own so to speak. (We no longer have the
W98SE PCs.) We use flash drives to move files between the PCs when
necessary.

When our cable ISP still had standby dialup, we used a router with an
external modem that automatically did all the work. Only some of the
laptops were setup for ethernet, wireless, or dial up.
Some of the older laptop internal modems and even USR internal card P/C
modems just don't work well with win 7 and vista. Some newer laptops had
new modem drivers (mostly registry entry changes)for Vista/Win7.

But these Vista PCs worked great with backup dial-up until just a few days
ago. If it were only one PC with a problem I'd run it down to the city to a
tech... but this is THREE PCs suddenly developing the same problem. This is
going to be extremely expensive if all three have to be taken in.

I have one HP laptop running Vista that I'd really like to change to Win7,
but Win 7 drivers were never released for things like the display, modem,
touchpad, wireless, and the ethernet I/O.
It supposedly can be reverted to WinXP, but I'd have to get a full copy of
XP with a new key for it. Supposedly, the XP drivers are still
available.The XP Disks/CDs I have are all original release, and difficult
to install & update with Sata HDs. Even the keys are so old that they will
not work with a new install of XP SP2? versions.

To me that's so wasteful. You pay all that money for an OS and in time
can't use it on a new PC. Of all the MS OSs, we found XP to be the least
problematic and most stable of them all. It's a real workhorse of an OS.
Right out of the box we had some issues with Vista. Now it looks like this
PC has to have it's HD reformatted and the OS reinstalled. There's just too
many glitches, too many bugs to tolerate and no malware can be found on it.
It's also the first OS I've had a problem using MozillaFirefox on. I was
hoping W-7 would take the place of this Vista desktop PC, but right out of
the box and with a new modem it has the same issues as both our Vista PCs -
it can communicate with the modem but not find it when trying to get online
w/dialup. >:-( I can hardly believe PCs are now being sold without
modems. You have to buy them separately as if we all lived in cities where
fast internet was the rule........

As far as Vista goes, if the system was supplied with Vista, and the modem
worked, it should still work.

Exactly! Yet three PCs can no longer "find" their modems when we try to
dial-up.

You may have redo the network setup.

We're not on a net-work. The tech who came out here a few years ago was
unable to get a net-work to work. We had another man, a family member come
out who works with networks for a living (trouble shoots them) and he
couldn't get a network working either. The PCs either couldn't see each
other, or they did for a few minutes then couldn't. Neither of these men
could find where the problem was but both suspected it was related to the
fact we have 2 ISPs. The Satellite for good weather and dial-up for when it
rains and snows. A working net-work would have made it so much easier but
we're now used to moving files using the thumb drives.

Also, with Satellite ISPs via a modem, you can run into timeout problems,
and need to do custom modem setups to overcome the problems.

All the PCs are working fine with the Satellite. If only the Sat' was
reliable when the sun didn't shine.

 

[Char Jackson]

I can hardly believe PCs are now being sold without
modems. You have to buy them separately as if we all lived in cities where
fast internet was the rule........

It's been nearly 16 years since I've needed a dialup modem. Modems,
(and floppy drives), have become legacy equipment.

We're not on a net-work. The tech who came out here a few years ago was
unable to get a net-work to work. We had another man, a family member come
out who works with networks for a living (trouble shoots them) and he
couldn't get a network working either. The PCs either couldn't see each
other, or they did for a few minutes then couldn't. Neither of these men
could find where the problem was but both suspected it was related to the
fact we have 2 ISPs. The Satellite for good weather and dial-up for when it
rains and snows. A working net-work would have made it so much easier but
we're now used to moving files using the thumb drives.

There's nothing hard about setting up a local network in the presence
of two or more ISPs. I wonder what problems they ran into, but I guess
it doesn't matter since you seem happy with your sneakernet.

All the PCs are working fine with the Satellite. If only the Sat' was
reliable when the sun didn't shine.

I recommend some form of remote access method where a trusted tech can
log into your computer remotely to see what's going on and fix it. I
use the free version of LogMeIn (https://secure.logmein.com/) to
support customers who are geographically diverse, but there are other
similar methods as well. That way you aren't hauling your PC down the
mountain every time you get stumped.

 

[Nil]

We're not on a net-work.

When you dial into a network or use a satallite network connection, you
ARE on a network. You set up your dial-up connection in the Network and
Sharing Center.

 

[Lewis]

We're not on a net-work.

First, it's network, not net-work.

Second, yes you are, that is how windows has handled modems since at
least Windows 95. It's called 'dial-up networking' for a reason.

I would start by deleting your current dial-up networking and recreating
it, unless your ISP is one of those that has their own dialer.

If you can't figure out, does your ISP have tech support? Call them, get
one of the machines working, and take notes so you can duplicate the
step on the other two machines.

The tech who came out here a few years ago was
unable to get a net-work to work. We had another man, a family member come
out who works with networks for a living (trouble shoots them) and he
couldn't get a network working either. The PCs either couldn't see each
other, or they did for a few minutes then couldn't.

You satellite should be using Ethernet or WiFi, and there's no reason
that should interfere with dial-up networking, but I know it can. If I
recall correctly, there used to be a setting in DUN that activated it
'on demand'. This should probably be disabled and you would manually
connect via the modem when your satellite connection is offline.

All the PCs are working fine with the Satellite. If only the Sat' was
reliable when the sun didn't shine.

I have a friend in a rural area that used satellite and he rarely has
drop out problems. It takes HEAVY rain, blizzard level snow, or an
obstruction on the dish itself. How clear is the line-of-sight from your
dish? His service is via DirecTV (I think that's HugesNet?)

 

[Char Jackson]

When you dial into a network or use a satallite network connection, you
ARE on a network. You set up your dial-up connection in the Network and
Sharing Center.

I thought she meant that her various computers are not networked
together as a LAN. Each is standalone, with USB flash drives used to
shuttle files back and forth.

 

[Char Jackson]

In message <[email protected]>


I have a friend in a rural area that used satellite and he rarely has
drop out problems. It takes HEAVY rain, blizzard level snow, or an
obstruction on the dish itself. How clear is the line-of-sight from your
dish? His service is via DirecTV (I think that's HugesNet?)

My brother is a DISH (and Wild Blue Internet) dealer/installer, and he
would agree with your assessment. If the satellite signal is dropping
out in less than extreme weather it's likely that the dish isn't aimed
properly or secured properly, or there's another repairable issue. The
tech support folks (and dealers like my brother) can log into a
service page to see exactly what your signal levels are and how often
the connection has been lost, plus a lot more.

 

[Nil]

I thought she meant that her various computers are not networked
together as a LAN. Each is standalone, with USB flash drives used
to shuttle files back and forth.

She probably did, but I don't think she gets that being on an internet
is also being networked. And since she never bothered telling us what
she's trying to use for dial-up, I was mentioning where Windows's
built-in dialup settings are.

 

[johnbee]

news:[email protected]...

If I knew the answers why would I waste my time here asking? How can I
know the info you need since I cannot read your mind and am not a techie,
a geek or a PC nerd?

It is perhaps not a good idea when you apparently are asking for help to
call people who are able to help you very silly names.
How would you like to be called a thickie, a dumbo or a PC idiot?

Open Control panel, select Phone and Modems. Click the Modems tag and
'remove' the modem. Restart and have a look to see if it has detected its
presence and reinstalled it. If it hasn't, use the same control panel
selection to add a modem.
If you have had a recent thunderstorm down your way, the modems might have
been spiked (I am using a word there without the foggiest notion of whether
it is correct: the fact is that I have had a modem bust by a lightning
flash while I was logged in.) I would recommend an external modem anyway
because one can see the lights. Also check the connections and wires.
Plug a PC that won't work into one of the modems that does work and see what
happens. Guess what comes next: plug the modem that doesn't work into a PC
that does work with its own modem. If a modem plugs into a USB port, try
another USB port. (If a USB connection wobbles, it has gone to the great
yonder and sleeps the big sleep.)

I am interested in your comment that the PC can not 'see' the modem. Almost
all modem problems except those lightning buggered can be fixed by working
through the normal windows help system. The only thing I would suggest as
an addition is that it is important to have a 56K modem and cable connection
for use when in trouble - you can get a nice little USB modem for very
little money and which is about the size of a memory stick. If the modems
are wireless, all bets are off because I know zilch about wireless.

 

[Char Jackson]

She probably did, but I don't think she gets that being on an internet
is also being networked. And since she never bothered telling us what
she's trying to use for dial-up, I was mentioning where Windows's
built-in dialup settings are.

Agreed. It's tough when the person who needs help is unable or
unwilling to ask for it properly.

 

[John Aldred]

Both laptop and desktop Vista PCs, including the new W-7 will no longer
work
with dial-up. What MS update did this to our 3 PCs? Yes, it still works
on
XP but we don't use the old XP PC anymore. How do we get dial-up back on
Vista and W-7?

I agree that it is suspicious that 3 machines have suddenly stopped being
able to connect via dial-up, but I wouldn't have thought that any MS updates
would have done that - unless you have installed any of the optional updates
that sometimes are offered for hardware drivers.

One thing that did stop dial-up in the village where I live was an
electrical storm in July this year. A number of modems and computers were
damaged by an overhead lightening discharge. An old external modem on an
ancient machine that I have runnung Millennium was partially fried in that
it would not pick up the dial tone. My broadband router on the other hand
was not affected. So any storms in your area recently?

Also any work on your telephone line or any additions to your house
telephone system?

Yes, I know that the modem in your XP machine is working, but it is probably
a completely different type to those built into modern machines.

I have a new USB modem that I have never used. Tonight I plugged it into a
full updated W7 (Home premium 32bit) Dell Inspiron 580 desktop. I went to
Windows update to search for a driver, which it found and installed.

After entering the telephone number for my old dial-up account, together
with the username and password I was able to connect without any problem.

So I don't think it is a general problem caused by recent updates to W7.

The USB modem that I used was an inexpensive little dongle from
StarTech.com, model # USB56KEM, which shows up in Device Manager as "USB
Soft Data Fax Modem with SmartCP"

 

[Brian]

It sounds like the problem I encountered once. Vista and 7 have the added
feature of being able to update DRIVERS through Windows Update, that is how
my dialup connection was screwed up

IF THIS IS ALSO THE CASE WITH YOU, you need to "roll back" the driver:

1- right-click on "my computer" and choose "manage".
2- in the window that opens up, on the right side column select "device
manager".
3-now in the middle section which lists all the hardware on your computer,
expand "modems" and right click on the name of your modem and choose
properties.
4-choose the "driver" tab.
5-if the "roll back" button is NOT grayed out, then press it and roll back
the driver to the previous version.
-->if the button IS grayed out (disabled) then the problem is not the driver

IF THE DRIVER WAS THE CULPRIT and rolling back the driver actually works,
then you will need to change the settings of the windows update to NOT
automatically download the updates and just NOTIFY you. this way you can
select NOT to download a updated driver for the modem.

Regards,

Brian

 

[Valorie *~~]

It's been nearly 16 years since I've needed a dialup modem. Modems,
(and floppy drives), have become legacy equipment.

And yet I read that 40% or more of Americans are still on dial-up. Not all
of them can afford Satellite PC service.

There's nothing hard about setting up a local network in the presence
of two or more ISPs. I wonder what problems they ran into, but I guess
it doesn't matter since you seem happy with your sneakernet.

I couldn't understand their explanations. Maybe today if we found someone
to come over they could get it working what with technology advancing as it
is.

I recommend some form of remote access method where a trusted tech can
log into your computer remotely to see what's going on and fix it. I
use the free version of LogMeIn (https://secure.logmein.com/) to
support customers who are geographically diverse, but there are other
similar methods as well. That way you aren't hauling your PC down the
mountain every time you get stumped.

That could get costly where 3 PCs are concerned. Techs here charge as much
as $75 to $100 an hour. We lost our really good tech when he moved some
years ago. Housecalls were $50 but except for failing to get a network
working for us, he fixed every problem we had back then, added RAM, 2nd HDs,
got cranky printers working etc.

 

[Valorie *~~]

When you dial into a network or use a satallite network connection, you
ARE on a network. You set up your dial-up connection in the Network and
Sharing Center.

OK, I thought a net-work is where two or more PCs can share information
among themselves. That's what the techs called it when they tried to get
all our PCs to see each other that time.

 

[Valorie *~~]

I thought she meant that her various computers are not networked
together as a LAN. Each is standalone, with USB flash drives used to
shuttle files back and forth.

Yes. You are correct. Each PC stands alone. Files are moved with USB flash
drives. Two techs we've had out here failed to get them to see each other
to share files. Those were XP and W98SE machines.

 

[Valorie *~~]

She probably did, but I don't think she gets that being on an internet
is also being networked. And since she never bothered telling us what
she's trying to use for dial-up, I was mentioning where Windows's
built-in dialup settings are.

What do you mean what we're trying to use for a dial-up? The internal or
external modems are used to dial-up as far as I know. The ISPs info is
added and the modem dials the number when we click on "connect." When the
PCs could see/find their modems we could hear the modems dialing the ISPs
number.

 

[Valorie *~~]

Agreed. It's tough when the person who needs help is unable or
unwilling to ask for it properly.

It's even tougher when the person isn't a techie-type and has little idea
exactly what information may be needed to get help. It's very frustrating.
It seems like no one on any of these NGs has ever had this problem with
their PCs and a dial-up ISP.

 

[Valorie *~~]

First, it's network, not net-work.

Second, yes you are, that is how windows has handled modems since at
least Windows 95. It's called 'dial-up networking' for a reason.

OK we have dial-up networking but each PC stands alone on the network and
cannot communicate with each other. But what has that to do with 3 PCs that
suddenly can't find their modems when we try to get online with our dial-up
ISP?

I would start by deleting your current dial-up networking and recreating
it, unless your ISP is one of those that has their own dialer.

There is nothing to delete. The ISPs number is entered in a network window
but that window no longer works on the 3 PCs. As soon as we try to add our
ISP in the network window, another small window comes up saying "Windows
cannot locate a modem." That's as far as we can get. Our ISP didn't give
us a disk to install anything that can be deleted.

If you can't figure out, does your ISP have tech support? Call them, get
one of the machines working, and take notes so you can duplicate the
step on the other two machines.

I'll try and find out tomorrow but doubt they have tech support since all
you do is add their local phone number to the PC. I can try and find out.

You satellite should be using Ethernet or WiFi, and there's no reason
that should interfere with dial-up networking, but I know it can. If I
recall correctly, there used to be a setting in DUN that activated it
'on demand'. This should probably be disabled and you would manually
connect via the modem when your satellite connection is offline.

Our Satellite user Ethernet. What is DUN and where is it found?

I have a friend in a rural area that used satellite and he rarely has
drop out problems. It takes HEAVY rain, blizzard level snow, or an
obstruction on the dish itself. How clear is the line-of-sight from your
dish? His service is via DirecTV (I think that's HugesNet?)

We have Wildblue for PC and DirecTV. The Sat' has a clear view of the ski.
We did have Hughs.net at one time but it was down so often we switched.
Wildblue fades out with even a light rain at times. Sometimes the sky is
clear and we lose the signal. We called their tech support and all they do
is recommend we replace everything with newer equipment. With no guarantee
that will improve anything. I despise Sat' service but there's nothing
else out here but that and dialup. Verizon wireless is moving into the area
but from what I heard it's "iffy" in that sometimes the signal is good and
other times it keeps dropping off.

 

[Valorie *~~]

My brother is a DISH (and Wild Blue Internet) dealer/installer, and he
would agree with your assessment. If the satellite signal is dropping
out in less than extreme weather it's likely that the dish isn't aimed
properly or secured properly, or there's another repairable issue. The
tech support folks (and dealers like my brother) can log into a
service page to see exactly what your signal levels are and how often
the connection has been lost, plus a lot more.

When my husband called their tech support the only thing they offered him
was to sell us new equipment - with no guarantee it would help. They didn't
offer to log into anything and didn't know to ask. How old is your
brother's equipment? Ours is about 4 years old.

 

[Nil]

It's even tougher when the person isn't a techie-type and has
little idea exactly what information may be needed to get help.

Did you read the article I suggested about how to ask a good question?
You haven't yet followed any of its advice.