Windows startup sound

S

SC Tom

Interesting Ian said:
SC Tom said:
Interesting Ian said:
Interesting Ian wrote:


Interesting Ian wrote:
Unlike in all previous versions it seems that windows 7 no longer
offers the option to change the start up sound. I'm not all that
proficient with computers. Is there any way I can replace the
windows default sound in a relatively simple way?

Also why isn't microsoft no longer offering this option? I can
change all other sounds apart from the startup.

I can't answer why, but what I did was disable the Microsoft sound
then added a HTA file that played the desired sound (or shortcut
to it) to the Startup folder.

'=============StartSound.hta=================== <html><body>
<!--Enter desired startup sound--> <bgsound src="d:\media\start.wav">
</body>

<script type="text/vbs"> 'Resize and position window to make page
"invisible" window.resizeTo 200,200 window.moveTo -200,-200

'Allow time for sound to play then close page
tt=setTimeout("parent.close",4000) </script>

</html>>

Thanks for that. But it doesn't help me since I have no idea what a
HTA file is and what I'm supposed to do with it!

I don't know how I could make it any simpler, but I will try. This is
the HTA file, which is just an executable HTML file.

What's an "executable HTML file" when it's all at home?

'=============StartSound.hta===================
<html><body>
<!--Enter desired startup sound-->
<bgsound src="d:\media\start.wav">
</body>

<script type="text/vbs">
'Resize and position window to make page "invisible"
window.resizeTo 200,200
window.moveTo -200,-200

'Allow time for sound to play then close page
tt=setTimeout("parent.close",4000)
</script>

</html>
'==============================================

1) Copy the code lines between between the "=" lines into your text
editor.

What's a "text editor"??



2) Replace "d:\media\start.wav" with the pathname of the sound file you
want to use as your startup sound.

3) Replace the "4000" in "tt=setTimeout("parent.close",4000)" with the
run time in milliseconds of your desired startup sound file.

4) Save the edited file as "StartSound.hta" to your startup folder,
either
C:\Users\All Users\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Startup\
or
C:\Users\[Your User Name]\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start
Menu\Programs\Startup\

--

Sorry but I have no idea whatsoever what you're talking about. Why
can't you utilize standard English and tell me in plain simply terms
what I need to do?
Click to expand...
My advice to you is to have one of your computer-savvy friends read this
post and walk you through it. It really doesn't get more "standard
English" than Dave's most recent reply.
--
Click to expand...
Then why do I need a computer savvy friend to read through it? The thing
is I shouldn't need to be computer savvy! People on here asking for help
are quite likely not computer savvy, otherwise it's likely that they
wouldn't need any help in the first place!

Anyway, searched google last night for what these various terms mean.
Eventually I stuck the appropriate text in a notebook file, changed the
extension to hta, put it in that startup folder (at first I thought it
didn't exist, but googling provided me with the information it is hidden
by default). And then switched the default windows startup sound off.

Anyway it didn't work. Since I spent 30 minutes trying to decipher Dave
"Crash" Dummy's instructions, and it still doesn't work, it appears to be
to be unreasonable to assert that his instructions were either simple or
written in standard English.

PS just asked this woman. She said that's way over her head and it's not
written in standard English. Of course we all know that perhaps somewhere
in the region of 95 to 99% of the population wouldn't have a clue as to
what these instructions mean. Why pretend otherwise? I think it's a
waste of everyones time posting instructions that the vast preponderance
of people are not going to understand!
Click to expand...
That's probably a pretty high guestimate of how many people don't
understand. I showed the post to my SO, and she got the gist of it, and was
able to create the HTA file with no help from me. And this is a woman who
has to ask me where the "Back" button is in Internet Explorer :)

I haven't tried the solution yet (I loaned out my Win7 notebook), but when I
get it back this afternoon, I'll set it up using Dave's instructions and let
you know if it works for me or not.

Good luck to you,
 
I

Interesting Ian

SC Tom said:
Interesting Ian said:
SC Tom said:
Interesting Ian wrote:


Interesting Ian wrote:
Unlike in all previous versions it seems that windows 7 no longer
offers the option to change the start up sound. I'm not all that
proficient with computers. Is there any way I can replace the
windows default sound in a relatively simple way?

Also why isn't microsoft no longer offering this option? I can
change all other sounds apart from the startup.

I can't answer why, but what I did was disable the Microsoft sound
then added a HTA file that played the desired sound (or shortcut
to it) to the Startup folder.

'=============StartSound.hta=================== <html><body>
<!--Enter desired startup sound--> <bgsound
src="d:\media\start.wav"> </body>

<script type="text/vbs"> 'Resize and position window to make page
"invisible" window.resizeTo 200,200 window.moveTo -200,-200

'Allow time for sound to play then close page
tt=setTimeout("parent.close",4000) </script>

</html>>

Thanks for that. But it doesn't help me since I have no idea what a
HTA file is and what I'm supposed to do with it!

I don't know how I could make it any simpler, but I will try. This is
the HTA file, which is just an executable HTML file.

What's an "executable HTML file" when it's all at home?

'=============StartSound.hta===================
<html><body>
<!--Enter desired startup sound-->
<bgsound src="d:\media\start.wav">
</body>

<script type="text/vbs">
'Resize and position window to make page "invisible"
window.resizeTo 200,200
window.moveTo -200,-200

'Allow time for sound to play then close page
tt=setTimeout("parent.close",4000)
</script>

</html>
'==============================================

1) Copy the code lines between between the "=" lines into your text
editor.

What's a "text editor"??



2) Replace "d:\media\start.wav" with the pathname of the sound file
you
want to use as your startup sound.

3) Replace the "4000" in "tt=setTimeout("parent.close",4000)" with the
run time in milliseconds of your desired startup sound file.

4) Save the edited file as "StartSound.hta" to your startup folder,
either
C:\Users\All Users\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Startup\
or
C:\Users\[Your User Name]\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start
Menu\Programs\Startup\

--

Sorry but I have no idea whatsoever what you're talking about. Why
can't you utilize standard English and tell me in plain simply terms
what I need to do?
My advice to you is to have one of your computer-savvy friends read this
post and walk you through it. It really doesn't get more "standard
English" than Dave's most recent reply.
--
Click to expand...
Then why do I need a computer savvy friend to read through it? The thing
is I shouldn't need to be computer savvy! People on here asking for help
are quite likely not computer savvy, otherwise it's likely that they
wouldn't need any help in the first place!

Anyway, searched google last night for what these various terms mean.
Eventually I stuck the appropriate text in a notebook file, changed the
extension to hta, put it in that startup folder (at first I thought it
didn't exist, but googling provided me with the information it is hidden
by default). And then switched the default windows startup sound off.

Anyway it didn't work. Since I spent 30 minutes trying to decipher Dave
"Crash" Dummy's instructions, and it still doesn't work, it appears to be
to be unreasonable to assert that his instructions were either simple or
written in standard English.

PS just asked this woman. She said that's way over her head and it's not
written in standard English. Of course we all know that perhaps
somewhere in the region of 95 to 99% of the population wouldn't have a
clue as to what these instructions mean. Why pretend otherwise? I think
it's a waste of everyones time posting instructions that the vast
preponderance of people are not going to understand!
Click to expand...
That's probably a pretty high guestimate of how many people don't
understand. I showed the post to my SO, and she got the gist of it, and
was able to create the HTA file with no help from me. And this is a woman
who has to ask me where the "Back" button is in Internet Explorer :)

I haven't tried the solution yet (I loaned out my Win7 notebook), but when
I get it back this afternoon, I'll set it up using Dave's instructions and
let you know if it works for me or not.

Good luck to you,
Click to expand...
Well I've created what appears to be a hta file. And it's now in that
startup folder. I created it using notepad. Is that right? The icon looks
like a small rectangle with a blue band at the top.

Wouldn't dream of asking my ex. If I haven't a clue then I feel a fortiori
she won't! (only asked this other women cos she's highly educated and doing
a Ph.D and stuff, but even then I felt it was extraordinarily unlikely she
would have a clue. And of course she didn't).
 
S

SC Tom

Interesting Ian said:
SC Tom said:
Interesting Ian said:
Interesting Ian wrote:


Interesting Ian wrote:
Unlike in all previous versions it seems that windows 7 no longer
offers the option to change the start up sound. I'm not all that
proficient with computers. Is there any way I can replace the
windows default sound in a relatively simple way?

Also why isn't microsoft no longer offering this option? I can
change all other sounds apart from the startup.

I can't answer why, but what I did was disable the Microsoft sound
then added a HTA file that played the desired sound (or shortcut
to it) to the Startup folder.

'=============StartSound.hta=================== <html><body>
<!--Enter desired startup sound--> <bgsound src="d:\media\start.wav">
</body>

<script type="text/vbs"> 'Resize and position window to make page
"invisible" window.resizeTo 200,200 window.moveTo -200,-200

'Allow time for sound to play then close page
tt=setTimeout("parent.close",4000) </script>

</html>>

Thanks for that. But it doesn't help me since I have no idea what a
HTA file is and what I'm supposed to do with it!

I don't know how I could make it any simpler, but I will try. This is
the HTA file, which is just an executable HTML file.

What's an "executable HTML file" when it's all at home?

'=============StartSound.hta===================
<html><body>
<!--Enter desired startup sound-->
<bgsound src="d:\media\start.wav">
</body>

<script type="text/vbs">
'Resize and position window to make page "invisible"
window.resizeTo 200,200
window.moveTo -200,-200

'Allow time for sound to play then close page
tt=setTimeout("parent.close",4000)
</script>

</html>
'==============================================

1) Copy the code lines between between the "=" lines into your text
editor.

What's a "text editor"??



2) Replace "d:\media\start.wav" with the pathname of the sound file you
want to use as your startup sound.

3) Replace the "4000" in "tt=setTimeout("parent.close",4000)" with the
run time in milliseconds of your desired startup sound file.

4) Save the edited file as "StartSound.hta" to your startup folder,
either
C:\Users\All Users\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Startup\
or
C:\Users\[Your User Name]\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start
Menu\Programs\Startup\

--

Sorry but I have no idea whatsoever what you're talking about. Why
can't you utilize standard English and tell me in plain simply terms
what I need to do?
Click to expand...
My advice to you is to have one of your computer-savvy friends read this
post and walk you through it. It really doesn't get more "standard
English" than Dave's most recent reply.
--
Click to expand...
Then why do I need a computer savvy friend to read through it? The thing
is I shouldn't need to be computer savvy! People on here asking for help
are quite likely not computer savvy, otherwise it's likely that they
wouldn't need any help in the first place!

Anyway, searched google last night for what these various terms mean.
Eventually I stuck the appropriate text in a notebook file, changed the
extension to hta, put it in that startup folder (at first I thought it
didn't exist, but googling provided me with the information it is hidden
by default). And then switched the default windows startup sound off.

Anyway it didn't work. Since I spent 30 minutes trying to decipher Dave
"Crash" Dummy's instructions, and it still doesn't work, it appears to be
to be unreasonable to assert that his instructions were either simple or
written in standard English.

PS just asked this woman. She said that's way over her head and it's not
written in standard English. Of course we all know that perhaps somewhere
in the region of 95 to 99% of the population wouldn't have a clue as to
what these instructions mean. Why pretend otherwise? I think it's a
waste of everyones time posting instructions that the vast preponderance
of people are not going to understand!
Click to expand...
Well, it works, but doesn't work. How's that for clear (wink, wink, nudge,
nudge)?

On my notebook, the window comes up (I changed the file to not make it
invisible), but the sound doesn't play because the sound drivers don't load
until after the HTA file has run. That may be why it doesn't work on your
PC. On my XP desktop, it works fine, but the PC is up and running well
before the sound plays, so I would say it is not truly a "startup" sound
like we're used to in Win98 or XP as an early startup sound.

That being said, I still say that it IS written in standard English (or
American, take your pick). If my SO could understand the instructions enough
to create the file, it must be pretty darn simple. I think you may be trying
to read too much into them. You sound like an intelligent person, but this
may just be out of your league. There's nothing wrong with not knowing what
to do. But it is wrong to assume that hardly anyone understands it just
because you don't. There are a number posts here that I don't understand,
and I've been doing computer work for more than 20 years. But there are some
things that I've never had any experience with, and I'm not sure of how they
work, but I'm not afraid to admit I don't understand if I'm really trying to
find out how it works.
 
J

John

SC Tom said:
Interesting Ian said:
Interesting Ian wrote:


Interesting Ian wrote:
Unlike in all previous versions it seems that windows 7 no longer
offers the option to change the start up sound. I'm not all that
proficient with computers. Is there any way I can replace the
windows default sound in a relatively simple way?

Also why isn't microsoft no longer offering this option? I can
change all other sounds apart from the startup.

I can't answer why, but what I did was disable the Microsoft sound
then added a HTA file that played the desired sound (or shortcut
to it) to the Startup folder.

'=============StartSound.hta=================== <html><body> <!--Enter
desired startup sound--> <bgsound src="d:\media\start.wav"> </body>

<script type="text/vbs"> 'Resize and position window to make page
"invisible" window.resizeTo 200,200 window.moveTo -200,-200

'Allow time for sound to play then close page
tt=setTimeout("parent.close",4000) </script>

</html>>

Thanks for that. But it doesn't help me since I have no idea what a
HTA file is and what I'm supposed to do with it!

I don't know how I could make it any simpler, but I will try. This is
the HTA file, which is just an executable HTML file.

What's an "executable HTML file" when it's all at home?

'=============StartSound.hta===================
<html><body>
<!--Enter desired startup sound-->
<bgsound src="d:\media\start.wav">
</body>

<script type="text/vbs">
'Resize and position window to make page "invisible"
window.resizeTo 200,200
window.moveTo -200,-200

'Allow time for sound to play then close page
tt=setTimeout("parent.close",4000)
</script>

</html>
'==============================================

1) Copy the code lines between between the "=" lines into your text
editor.

What's a "text editor"??



2) Replace "d:\media\start.wav" with the pathname of the sound file you
want to use as your startup sound.

3) Replace the "4000" in "tt=setTimeout("parent.close",4000)" with the
run time in milliseconds of your desired startup sound file.

4) Save the edited file as "StartSound.hta" to your startup folder,
either
C:\Users\All Users\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Startup\
or
C:\Users\[Your User Name]\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start
Menu\Programs\Startup\

--

Sorry but I have no idea whatsoever what you're talking about. Why can't
you utilize standard English and tell me in plain simply terms what I
need to do?
Click to expand...
My advice to you is to have one of your computer-savvy friends read this
post and walk you through it. It really doesn't get more "standard
English" than Dave's most recent reply.
--
Click to expand...
Then why do I need a computer savvy friend to read through it? The thing is
I shouldn't need to be computer savvy! People on here asking for help are
quite likely not computer savvy, otherwise it's likely that they wouldn't
need any help in the first place!

Anyway, searched google last night for what these various terms mean.
Eventually I stuck the appropriate text in a notebook file, changed the
extension to hta, put it in that startup folder (at first I thought it
didn't exist, but googling provided me with the information it is hidden by
default). And then switched the default windows startup sound off.

Anyway it didn't work. Since I spent 30 minutes trying to decipher Dave
"Crash" Dummy's instructions, and it still doesn't work, it appears to be to
be unreasonable to assert that his instructions were either simple or
written in standard English.

PS just asked this woman. She said that's way over her head and it's not
written in standard English. Of course we all know that perhaps somewhere
in the region of 95 to 99% of the population wouldn't have a clue as to what
these instructions mean. Why pretend otherwise? I think it's a waste of
everyones time posting instructions that the vast preponderance of people
are not going to understand!
Click to expand...
You asked a question and you got a perfectly plausible answer,
complete with source code, which if the reader were capable, whether
through education or practice, of understanding, would have. It is not
the answer that is at fault it is the knowledge of the reader that is
lacking.

Many/most trades use esoteric languages, not to wow the uninitiated
but because that is the quickest and easiest method of transmitting a
particular bit of information.

John B.
 
I

Interesting Ian

SC Tom said:
Well, it works, but doesn't work. How's that for clear (wink, wink, nudge,
nudge)?

On my notebook, the window comes up (I changed the file to not make it
invisible), but the sound doesn't play because the sound drivers don't
load until after the HTA file has run. That may be why it doesn't work on
your PC. On my XP desktop, it works fine, but the PC is up and running
well before the sound plays, so I would say it is not truly a "startup"
sound like we're used to in Win98 or XP as an early startup sound.
Click to expand...

It seems I can create a hta file. But I have no idea what people are
talking about in the context of shortcuts and how windows is supposed to
read it when starting. Do I have to do something in addition; namely alter
something somewhere so that it can read and/or point to this file when it
starts?

But it doesn't seem like a very satisfactory solution anyway. I think I
should just forget it and put up with the boring default sound.
That being said, I still say that it IS written in standard English (or
American, take your pick).
Click to expand...
It's computer programming! The instructions that computers follow is not
English. ;-) They could never understand English! (but try telling AI
geeks that!)


If my SO could understand the instructions enough
to create the file, it must be pretty darn simple. I think you may be
trying to read too much into them. You sound like an intelligent person,
but this may just be out of your league.
Click to expand...
Yes I know it's out of my league. I did explicitly state in my opening post
that I'm not particularly proficient with computers. Day to day use I am,
but not when it comes to getting underneath the bonnet.

There's nothing wrong with not knowing what
to do. But it is wrong to assume that hardly anyone understands it just
because you don't.
Click to expand...
I'm not assuming that no on else knows because *I* don't. That has nothing
to do with it. In my experience it's something that computer geeks know and
understand, but that the rest of the population don't. And computer geeks
appear to be simply incapable of comprehending that no-one else has a clue
what they're talking about. They just continually spout forth gobbledygook
and are contemptuous of those that don't understand them. Yet they in turn
are utterly clueless when it comes to other subjects which requires some
basic intellect to grasp.

They jus' annoy me beyond all measure.
 
I

Interesting Ian

You asked a question and you got a perfectly plausible answer,
complete with source code, which if the reader were capable, whether
through education or practice, of understanding, would have. It is not
the answer that is at fault it is the knowledge of the reader that is
lacking.
Click to expand...
You really would make a great teacher.


Many/most trades use esoteric languages, not to wow the uninitiated
but because that is the quickest and easiest method of transmitting a
particular bit of information.

John B.
Click to expand...
You're not transmitting information if the recipient cannot translate.
 
D

Dave \Crash\ Dummy

SC Tom wrote:

Well, it works, but doesn't work. How's that for clear (wink, wink,
nudge, nudge)?

On my notebook, the window comes up (I changed the file to not make
it invisible), but the sound doesn't play because the sound drivers
don't load until after the HTA file has run. That may be why it
doesn't work on your PC. On my XP desktop, it works fine, but the PC
is up and running well before the sound plays, so I would say it is
not truly a "startup" sound like we're used to in Win98 or XP as an
early startup sound.
Click to expand...
No, it is not an exact duplicate of the native Windows startup sound
which plays whenever Windows runs imageres.dll during the boot process.
The sound plays sometime later in the process when Windows executes
programs in the "Startup" folder. That's close enough for me and far
simpler and safer than editing the imageres.dll system file. I am
surprised that your laptop runs programs in the Startup folder before
all the hardware drivers are loaded. Does it play if you doubleclick the
HTA file after your laptop is up?
 
D

Dave

snip
It's computer programming! The instructions that computers follow is not
English. ;-) They could never understand English! (but try telling AI
geeks that!)


If my SO could understand the instructions enough

Yes I know it's out of my league. I did explicitly state in my opening
post that I'm not particularly proficient with computers. Day to day use
I am, but not when it comes to getting underneath the bonnet.

There's nothing wrong with not knowing what

I'm not assuming that no on else knows because *I* don't. That has
nothing to do with it. In my experience it's something that computer
geeks know and understand, but that the rest of the population don't. And
computer geeks appear to be simply incapable of comprehending that no-one
else has a clue what they're talking about. They just continually spout
forth gobbledygook and are contemptuous of those that don't understand
them. Yet they in turn are utterly clueless when it comes to other
subjects which requires some basic intellect to grasp.

They jus' annoy me beyond all measure.
Click to expand...
Getting rude with people trying to help you is rude.
Asking a question and persisting once you have enough information given to
you that lets you understand it's not a simple "check a box" fix, but
requires a little knowledge is rude.
Insisting people "spoon-feed" you is rude.
Expecting someone to supply the spoon so you can be "spoon-fed" is rude.
And those jus' annoy me, and possibly others, beyond all measure.
Dave
 
S

SC Tom

Dave "Crash" Dummy said:
SC Tom wrote:



No, it is not an exact duplicate of the native Windows startup sound
which plays whenever Windows runs imageres.dll during the boot process.
The sound plays sometime later in the process when Windows executes
programs in the "Startup" folder. That's close enough for me and far
simpler and safer than editing the imageres.dll system file. I am
surprised that your laptop runs programs in the Startup folder before
all the hardware drivers are loaded. Does it play if you doubleclick the
HTA file after your laptop is up?
Click to expand...
Yep, works just fine then. It also works fine if I logout, then login.
I'm used to some of the quirks of this notebook. It's a Gateway, and
originally came with Vista, which I upgraded to Win7. Gateway (or Acer, who
bought them out) has decided in their infinite wisdom to not bother with
Win7 drivers for an 18-month-old system, so I'm still running the Vista
ones. It all works well, and the system is faster than it ever was, but
there are a couple of items like that.
Or, I'm assuming that the sound drivers are late in loading. The default
startup sound plays as it should if I enable it, but I believe that's from
the hardware, not the software drivers. Similar to the POST beep(s).
 
I

Interesting Ian

Dave said:
Getting rude with people trying to help you is rude.
Asking a question and persisting once you have enough information given to
you that lets you understand it's not a simple "check a box" fix, but
requires a little knowledge is rude.
Insisting people "spoon-feed" you is rude.
Expecting someone to supply the spoon so you can be "spoon-fed" is rude.
And those jus' annoy me, and possibly others, beyond all measure.
Dave
Click to expand...

With prodigious use of google to try and figure out what on earth you're
blathering on about I've followed your instructions to the best of my
ability. It doesn't work. So unless you're prepared to provide additional
information I'm just going to delete the file.
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

snip


Getting rude with people trying to help you is rude.
Asking a question and persisting once you have enough information given to
you that lets you understand it's not a simple "check a box" fix, but
requires a little knowledge is rude.
Insisting people "spoon-feed" you is rude.
Expecting someone to supply the spoon so you can be "spoon-fed" is rude.
And those jus' annoy me, and possibly others, beyond all measure.
Dave
Click to expand...
I also was offended by Interesting Ian's claim that people who understand
computers understand nothing else (as in the phrase "utterly clueless" he
used above). On the contrary - my experience has been that most physicists,
computer programmers, mathematicians, what have you, understand a lot of
things beyond those fields - literature, music, painting, and so on - but
the liberal arts people around them are quick to claim that the
science/engineering types are very narrow, while they themselves are unable
to know which end of a screwdriver to hold, and unwilling to learn.

In short, my tech friends know a lot more about Shakespeare and Mahler than
my literary friends do about quantum mechanics and relativity...

What he calls gobbledygook is the language of the game which, IMO, he wants
to play without knowing that language or being willing to learn it...

I wonder: would he be annoyed at a driving instructor referring to the
wheel in front of him as a "steering wheel" instead of a "funny round
thing"?
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

You really would make a great teacher.




You're not transmitting information if the recipient cannot translate.
Click to expand...
How do you feel about speakers of Urdu or Arabic, then? Are they flawed
because you can't understand them?
 
I

Interesting Ian

I also was offended by Interesting Ian's claim that people who understand
computers understand nothing else (as in the phrase "utterly clueless" he
used above). On the contrary - my experience has been that most
physicists,
computer programmers, mathematicians, what have you, understand a lot of
things beyond those fields - literature, music, painting, and so on -
Click to expand...
I said *computer programmers*; most emphatically not mathematicians! And not
even physicists.

And I don't have in mind literature, music or painting. I said "are utterly
clueless when it comes to other
subjects which *requires some basic intellect to grasp*" (emphasis added).

Definitely not all subjects though. What I specifically have in mind are
their philosophical abilities. For example discussions pertaining to the
mind body problem and whether computers can be said to be conscious or could
become conscious. Their complete lack of understanding is a wonder to
behold. The same goes for most skepics* and materialists.

* spelling deliberate.
 
I

Interesting Ian

Gene E. Bloch said:
How do you feel about speakers of Urdu or Arabic, then? Are they flawed
because you can't understand them?
Click to expand...
Information only exists in the context of conscious minds. So they
wouldn't be conveying information anymore than if they were addressing an
empty room.
 
N

Nil

What he calls gobbledygook is the language of the game which, IMO,
he wants to play without knowing that language or being willing to
learn it...
Click to expand...
Bingo. That's it in a nutshell.

Being ignorant is excusable. Being rude to others in an attempt to
justify and preserve one's own ignorance is not.
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

Bingo. That's it in a nutshell.

Being ignorant is excusable. Being rude to others in an attempt to
justify and preserve one's own ignorance is not.
Click to expand...
Yes. Read *his* reply to the same post :)
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

Information only exists in the context of conscious minds. So they
wouldn't be conveying information anymore than if they were addressing an
empty room.
Click to expand...
Consider answering my question...

And you said "transmitting", which you've now changed to "conveying". I
think of that switch as disingenuous.

Farewell.
 
I

Interesting Ian

Nil said:
Bingo. That's it in a nutshell.

Being ignorant is excusable. Being rude to others in an attempt to
justify and preserve one's own ignorance is not.
Click to expand...
If a teacher spouts forth gobbledygook why do you suppose that it is those
trying to learn who are at fault? Often it is the people trying to learn
who are at fault because they are too stupid. But often it is the teacher
who is at fault for presupposing knowledge despite the continual insistence
by his students that they lack such knowledge. In this case it is the
teacher who is stupid.

What are you unable to understand about that?
 
I

Interesting Ian

Gene E. Bloch said:
Consider answering my question...

And you said "transmitting", which you've now changed to "conveying". I
think of that switch as disingenuous.
Click to expand...
They are neither transmitting nor conveying information.

And as for your "question" I fail to understand it. What do you mean by
asking if speakers of Arabic, Urdu are "flawed". What on earth does
"flawed" mean in this context?

The language that one speaks in is wholly irrelevant. The relevant question
here is whether the person being spoke to is able to understand that
language. If not then the speaker is not transmitting information.
Consider this question. Would books hold information if every single
conscious being in the Universe were to die?
 
J

John

You really would make a great teacher.




You're not transmitting information if the recipient cannot translate.
Click to expand...

And you are grasping at straws.

You asked a question, the answer was given to you in terms that anyone
who is very familiar with the workings of a computer would understand.
You didn't understand.

If you ask an engineer to tell you whether a beam will support
something he will reply with a mass of mathematics which, if you
understand will be because somewhere you obtained sufficient education
to understand.

However, in essence, you were correct, you didn't understand and
therefore the writer didn't communicate, but would it have made you
feel better had he written "I'd tell you but YOU wouldn't understand"?
Because essentially that is what you are implying.

John B.
 
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