Win7 SP1

[lonewolfmage]

To Catilley~

I agree 100% when you say ( in part)

What I did, and MS suggested this, was I did a full backup prior to the install of the SP. One should always do this, regardless of the version of Windows, when installing a SP or making major changes.

That way, if you don't like the outcome, you have a image to fall back on. We were warned, it's all in the fine print, in regard to installing SP's. If we simply agree to everything without reading the details first, then whatever happens, just happens.

Not many .. other than those thatare "in the know" that they should do back ups .. at least for thier personal files when they do something major to their systems such as a OS upgrade or a Service pack .. or what ever the case happens to be..


Case in point .. i backed up all my personal files .. when i did the upgrade to Win 7 .. and still do periodic updates to a separate hard drive .. jusdt in case some goes FUBAR.. i have some way to get my files back ..

Rule of thumb... when it comes to computers .. always keep a back up .. in one way shape or form..

~LoneWolf

 

[lonewolfmage]

SuperSarge~

You are correct ..

IF doing an IMAGE restore .. that would put it back to that particualr IMAGE ..

But what about a SYSTEM RESTORE.. ( as in a restore point) ...

Unless you get rid of restore points .. aren't all those files .. still in a a way. on you hard drive and able to be accessed ??

But even then either way .. would you be still "openeing up a can of worms" with file dupes and such ??

Just curious.
~LoneWolf

 

[catilley1092]

Restoring a system image will still leave some of the SP1 files on your OS. That is one of the quirky flaws that I have noticed about Win7. While it has many excellent features, I have noticed weird behavior from the system image restore function, as it will restore certain files and not others, so I am still sticking with my decision not to install SP1, regardless of how many bazillion perky peppy people love their upgrade. Their contentment does not diffuse my reservations. I'll install SP1 later down the road after even more bug reports have come out and I know what to expect.

I just don't see how this is possible, as the pre-install image didn't have Win 7 SP1 files on it. The update that allows for future upgrades may be there, but SP1 itself won't.

Cat

 

[catilley1092]

Here is a set of instructions for installing Win 7 SP1. Note that it says to backup your computer, disable any AV/IS software, and for notebooks, make sure that they are on AC power, not battery, prior to the install.

http://windows.microsoft.com/installwindows7sp1

This should be plenty clear enough.

Cat

 

[Mychael]

As I broached in other forum subject I've come to the conclusion (rightly or wrongly) that there simply are so many combinations possible of hardware/software configurations that it's almost impossible to say with 100% certainty whether or not a software upgrade/installation will or will not go smoothly on a particular system.. Just too many variables and interactions possible.

The best that can be hoped for is anecdotal evidence suggesting that for the greater majority of users a particular thing will (or will not ) work smoothly.

You could wait forever for the bugs to be ironed out and still be one of the unlucky ones that have issues or conversely take a punt on something new early on and never look back.

 

[Super Sarge]

To Catilley~

I agree 100% when you say ( in part)

What I did, and MS suggested this, was I did a full backup prior to the install of the SP. One should always do this, regardless of the version of Windows, when installing a SP or making major changes.

That way, if you don't like the outcome, you have a image to fall back on. We were warned, it's all in the fine print, in regard to installing SP's. If we simply agree to everything without reading the details first, then whatever happens, just happens.

Not many .. other than those thatare "in the know" that they should do back ups .. at least for thier personal files when they do something major to their systems such as a OS upgrade or a Service pack .. or what ever the case happens to be..


Case in point .. i backed up all my personal files .. when i did the upgrade to Win 7 .. and still do periodic updates to a separate hard drive .. jusdt in case some goes FUBAR.. i have some way to get my files back ..

Rule of thumb... when it comes to computers .. always keep a back up .. in one way shape or form..

~LoneWolf

I do a scheduled daily full backup using W7 to a internal hard disc (I have 4 internal Hard discs) I do a manual weekly update using macrium reflect to a different internal hard disc. I do believe in redundancy when dealing with computers

Please note W7 will not backup the following
Windows Backup won't back up the following items:

Program files (files that define themselves as part of a program in the registry when the program is installed).

Files stored on hard disks that are formatted using the FAT file system.

Files that are in the Recycle Bin.

Temporary files on drives smaller than 1 GB.

 

[TrainableMan]

Yet there were millions of users that updated with no problems. ... Yes a few have had problems, but the vast majority has had no problems Just do a full image backup, install SP1. If it does not work you can always re-install your image

It's great if it works for you but this was distributed as an automatic update which means for millions of users it just installs itself. There was no warning by MS update saying "please create a back-up image because I'm going to wipe out your restore points and you won't be able to roll-back."

When you distribute something automatically it should work for everyone, not most. Microsoft introduced problems to machines that WERE working. So if I am one of the one in 10 thousand people who got my machine screwed over by Microsoft then it won't help me to know it worked for 10,000 others, I want to know when they will fix mine or really "What do I do now if I don't have a back-up?"

 

[TrainableMan]

If you restore an image then your drive is back to exactly as it looked at the time it was taken ... I believe this is what Super Sarge suggests users with SP1 problems do. And for the small percentage of smart people who take images that would sure help; but it isn't a requirement of Windows Update that that had been done before most users were automatically updated.

I think etalmar and lonewolf are not referring to an image restore but rather the system restore rollback feature which restores the registry & certain system files to a prior point but it does not delete anything new added which would include some new files from SP1. This type of restore does not always fix the problems and having an image would be much better for these SP1 issues.

 

[lonewolfmage]

TrainableMan,

Acctually, I was refering to BOTH an image restore and taking from a restore point..

If I remeber correctly .. if you "reinstall" from an IMAGE , say like with Norton(ick) Ghost then you will get whatever that IMAGE contains and nothing else.

If "rolling back" ( for lack of better) from a restore point not only are you getting what you had ... but possibly all the problems that came with it from that point.

Especially if you had a virus or some such infecting the restore point(s).

I think i made that about as "clear as mud" LOL

~LoneWolf

 

[Super Sarge]

That is why I never use or keep restore points, which is a W7 option. I just re-install the latest Image i created, if I truly screw things up.

 

[etalmar]

If you restore an image then your drive is back to exactly as it looked at the time it was taken ... I believe this is what Super Sarge suggests users with SP1 problems do. And for the small percentage of smart people who take images that would sure help; but it isn't a requirement of Windows Update that that had been done before most users were automatically updated.

I think etalmar and lonewolf are not referring to an image restore but rather the system restore rollback feature which restores the registry & certain system files to a prior point but it does not delete anything new added which would include some new files from SP1. This type of restore does not always fix the problems and having an image would be much better for these SP1 issues.

Yes..the system restore rollback feature. Exactly. Right now, I do not have an external hard drive to create a system image with, prior to installing SP1, so until I can purchase one and create a complete system image, no SP1 for me. Thanks TM, for explaining in greater detail the point I wanted to make about system restore.

 

[TrainableMan]

I conservatively estimate that over 80% of the users out there do NOT have/create a restore image; that is why this is such a huge deal for the 1 in 10,000 people that it FUBARs. So what is their best option?

I would suggest Windows Easy Transfer (WET) all their userids/data to an external HD or DVDs. Then a fresh install of their OS and immediately turn off automatic updates. Go out to updates and Permanently Hide SP1. Then restore your userids/data from the WET files. Update your system with any other non-SP1 updates. Reinstall all your programs. Reset any customization you had. And this time make a system restore image.

Unfortunately this is a lot of work, especially for users who are not real comfortable and may just surf the web and run a few apps.

 

[etalmar]

I have already hidden the KB976932 SP1 update until I can make a system image. I did that the day it first appeared on patch Tuesday to ensure that I would not install it without having a reliable backup in place first. Some people get so intense about installing it immediately, but I'm a patient soul. I can wait. Prior to the SP1 upgrade, I had been keeping my system up to date.

 

[catilley1092]

I conservatively estimate that over 80% of the users out there do NOT have/create a restore image; that is why this is such a huge deal for the 1 in 10,000 people that it FUBARs. So what is their best option?

I would suggest Windows Easy Transfer (WET) all their userids/data to an external HD or DVDs. Then a fresh install of their OS and immediately turn off automatic updates. Go out to updates and Permanently Hide SP1. Then restore your userids/data from the WET files. Update your system with any other non-SP1 updates. Reinstall all your programs. Reset any customization you had. And this time make a system restore image.

Unfortunately this is a lot of work, especially for users who are not real comfortable and may just surf the web and run a few apps.

As low as the cost per GB (or TB) of HDD's (including pre-assembled backup ones), 80% of users who don't backup/create an image, is a much higher figure that I ever thought it would be. Many users are constantly upgrading their HDD's, and the old one makes a perfect backup drive. In fact, last week, I purchased another HDD case from Computer Geeks for $16. I put that Samsung into it.

Now, I have a total of 4 backup drives on hand, and was getting ready to purchase another Hitachi 1TB drive from where I purchased the last case from ($59.99 w/free shipping), but my notebook has folded it's last job, that "death rattle" today turned into a "death knock". I returned home from the store, to hear a knocking sound, my notebook's page was frozen, and the HDD sounded like it was bouncing from one corner to the other in it's enclosure.

With all of the free backup program choices available today, 80% of non-backup users is about 75% too many. I realize that some won't do it, no matter what, just as some won't even run an AV/IS suite (free or paid), regardless of the dangers that the user exposes him/her self to, not to mention spreading the infection among others.

Backing up the computer is just as an important maintenance task as installing/maintaining an AV/IS suite, defragging, and so on. I learned this the hard way, losing much more valuable data (to me) than reinstalling a OS from scratch could ever recover.

This is why I always tell everyone to backup their entire computer before performing major changes, and all users should have at least 2 full image backups on hand, when the install was new, and always keep one no longer then 2 weeks old. I'm going to be purchasing a new notebook soon, and the first thing that I'll do (after removing the "crapware" from it), and installing ESET NOD32, is doing full image backup with the new version of Todo.

It's really a very simple thing to do.

Cat

 

[TrainableMan]

Well just speaking from the machines I have supported/worked on; of the 6 computers including my own, only mine has an image. 4 of the others do back-up their data-only, periodically: 2 to a second harddrive and 2 to flash drives.

For the average user a computer is a device like a TV that you turn on and use, and when you have a problem you take it to the shop. Most of the people on this forum regularly are NOT the average user; the average user only finds this place when they do a search for an error or problem and one of our posts shows up in the search engine.

Is this changing? I'm sure it is, as children today grow up with computers in their schools and folks like my parents who will not even touch a computer die off, but I still suspect 80% is quite low for today.

So, some good advice for anyone that doesn't do it already ... buy an external back-up drive (or put a second one internal) and commit to a regular back-up schedule.

 

[Digerati]

I conservatively estimate that over 80% of the users out there do NOT have/create a restore image

I suspect it is much more than 80% that do not have a viable backup plan. Whether it be a backup image, or just a backup of their personal files, most folks just assume their PC, like a toaster, will work.

 

[davehc]

Yes! I assume The lowest common denominator when offering help. I brace myself to be verbally abused - lol.

 

[forest.lawn]

Has anyone had troubles with Win7 SP1...One of my sons has run into problems and I would like to know if anyone else has troubles before I try to install the update!!!!

I'm running "Windows 7 SP1 64bit" and love it! Of course I had to educate myself of the OS. It's been three weeks now and I've got the basics down.
I like the 64bit because I can max my memory to 16GB and windows & will recognize it and use it appropriately.

It's also knowing what is your "hardware" is (I build PCs' w/ OS systems).
I'm runing windows 7 on a Gigabyte GA-880GM-UD2H (rev. 1.4) motherboard and powering it with Dual Core AMD Athlon II X2 255, 3100 MHz (15.5 x 200)
with 4GB (2X2GB Dual Channel) of Kingston DDR3 SDRAM 1333.
I'm the type of person that just "jumps" into a new MS OS and that's what I'd say to you. You either sink or swim (lol).
I hope this may help you. forest.lawn

 

[catilley1092]

Win 7 SP1 has worked well for me so far, I can tell the difference. The desktop is more snappier, and overall performance is better.

I recommend it to everyone, but keep in mind that any SP will not "fix" problems (software/hardware issues) that were present before updating to 7 SP1. These issues should be fixed first. Perhaps a reinstall will be of help, I do this about every 6 months. That alone makes a big difference, everytime I do it.

Cat

 

[davehc]

Ditto, Cat. No doubt in my mind that it is a mite snappier.