WIN 7

[John B. Slocomb]

Most people who use Windows don't update hardly anything. Techies can
secure a Windows install but, like you said, with Ubuntu, it's installed
securely by default.

Alias, Alias, you are letting your ignorance show... yet again.

Certainly you must know that configuring SELinux (you do know what
SELinux is?) is one of the most common hacks in Linux. "If you have
I/O problems just re-configure it to "disabled" and you're right,
mate."

Of course, the Newbees have problems and have to ask for advise, so it
is pretty obvious to anyone who does a bit of reading that many Linux
systems are wide open.

In addition, the possibility of acquiring mal-ware depends greatly on
how one uses the computer. I'm sure that you have discovered that
those who spend their time downloading warz and porn are very
susceptible to the problem while I can assure you that using the
computer in a more mature manner results in little or no mal-ware
being received.


John B. Slocomb
(johnbslocombatgmaildotcom)

 

[John B. Slocomb]

Triple yawn.

I didn't think that you'd "get it".

John B. Slocomb
(johnbslocombatgmaildotcom)

 

[John B. Slocomb]

Double yawn.

Yes, I'm sure that you are correct. Telling the truth is a boring
subject, isn't it? Certainly you appear to be much more inclined to
tell lies then tell the truth.

Or is it simple ignorance that you suffer from?

John B. Slocomb
(johnbslocombatgmaildotcom)

 

[John B. Slocomb]

Yawn.

Well you certainly seem intent on demonstrating your true nature to
the world, don't you?

You have already proved that you know very little about Windows or
Linux (how about DOS? Know much about that?) and now you seem
determined to publicize the fact that the truth is boring to you, not
worth repeating, and that you are a confirmed liar.

My goodness but you are a piece of work aren't you?

John B. Slocomb
(johnbslocombatgmaildotcom)

 

[John B. Slocomb]

Having *options* is a very good thing.

It can be nice if you want to use Ubuntu and you actually have that
option to use them via an emulator (Wine, CXGames, Cedega).

Having used Windows since Windows 95 up until present version and not
much Linux, I wouldn't exactly say that Ubuntu is bad. Overall, I
personally feel that Windows is more complete. But... Windows still
lacks essential features that Ubuntu has pre-installed. I, for one,
think that finding and installing applications and the best drivers
could (and should) be easier in Windows. There's a potential solution
for this if you could gather developers and their products into one
place. There were no good solution in Windows as early as in (most?)
Linux distros (and still not now). I believe that is why applications
for Windows are so spread without a good, easy, built-in way to find,
browse and install them from one single place.

I think that one of the reasons for the "Oh! Linux can do anything
that Windows can" fiction is that most of the people using either
system aren't using it professionally.

One of the major reasons is that the vast majority of the business
world uses Windows and the associated applications. If you do a job
for most companies you will run head on into the fact that your Linux
system doesn't match their Windows.

Almost every project I have been on used Auto-Cad and during
construction of a project there are innumerable changes in the
drawings. The normal practice is to e-mail complete drawings back and
forth between the Engineering Office and the Field. Up-dated drawing
going out to the Field and marked up drawings showing the "As-builts"
sent back.

Frequently if one writes a report the company will request that both a
printed report and a disk copy be furnished, particularly if any form
of legal problems are anticipated. And, with extremely rare exceptions
they want the disks in "Word format".

It is all well and good to say "Well, Open Office can do the job", but
if you deliver a Linux formatted disk with a OO document on it you
will probably be told in no uncertain terms that it is not what you
contracted to do.

Of course Auto-Cad will run on Linux using Wine but how big a data
file can it handle? Are you sure that it can edit the largest drawing
that the Engineers want to send? If you are out in the middle of a 100
Sq. Km. sugar cane plantation in the middle of Java building a gas
plant for the National Oil Company it is not really a good time to
discover that you can't do your job because Linux won't do it.

No, as long as windows is the dominant computer operating system Linux
is never going to be a wholly acceptable system..

John B. Slocomb
(johnbslocombatgmaildotcom)

 

[DanS]

You allege that Windows is more susceptible to malware then
Linux but other then your say so why should we believe you?

Are you saying that Windows isn't more susceptible to
malware/virii ?

True, Widows security has been improved dramatically over the
latest two Windows OSs, but there are still a couple hundred
thousand expolits waiting to infect any Windows box they can.

I came across a website just the other day as I was using Linux
that popped up the 'Infection Detected' window and tried to tell
me my Linux box was infected with Windows virii. For the life of
me, I can't remember what I was searching for, but I got to this
page from a Google search hit.

So I just close all FF Windows, restart FF, and then do my
Google search again and avoid the link I clicked on.

If I was using Windows, I would have needed to kill the FF
process, restart in safe mode, and then run Malewarebytes/Spybot
scans, as well as an AV scan, and check over some registry
settings and startup programs.

I just think you picked the wrong subject to try to make your
point, as we all know, Malware/Spyware, and either through
automatic infection, or by some socially engineered infection
method, **is written for the Windows OS**, so by that token
alone I would think that it proves Windows *is* much much more
susceptible than Linux.

 

[John B. Slocomb]

You're right. Some things can only be done with Windows, at least for
now. My point is that most HOME USERS can do everything they do with
Windows but more securely if they use Ubuntu or another Linux distro.

I just installed Fedora 13 (beta) on my Granddaughter's game computer
- dual boot, Win 7 and Fedora - and set up Clamav to do periodic virus
scans on the Linux partition. Thought I'd give the kid a fighting
chance so changed things around a bit so that Linux could see the
windows directory and set up Clamav to scan that partition too.

This is a machine that a 7 year old girl uses and has the installed
Win 7 firewall and whatever they call it that won't let you run a
program without clicking on yet another permission box. Probably not
earth shaking protection.

Results - no virus.

Actually, I have had one serious virus in something like 20 years and
I got that one from a bootleg copied disk. I use a firewall and do
periodic virus scans but frankly I have never had a problem with
mal-ware or virus that effected the operations of the computer.

My own suspicions are that these people who have massive problems with
mal-ware or virus are very likely not using a decent firewall or are
downloading a lot of porn and warz.

John B. Slocomb
(johnbslocombatgmaildotcom)

 

[John B. Slocomb]

I guess you've never heard of drive by malware and you are assuming that
all Linux users are ignorant and all Windows users know what they're
doing. You're wrong.

As I have told you, you really, really, need a course in English
comprehensive. I never said or implied that all Linux users are
ignorant or that windows users know what they are doing. although it
is quite plain to anyone that can read that the Linux Newbees are the
prime users of Ubuntu. Or, at least the problems that they seem to
post, looking for help, are generally not the sort that system
managers usually need help with.

Is the wacky backy that you smoke or a poor education that leads you
to misunderstand the posts?

John B. Slocomb
(johnbslocombatgmaildotcom)

 

[John B. Slocomb]

You can't reply to me without stating you are perfect and I am
imperfect, can you? You, sir, are a BORE and a very amateurish debater.

You really are bad at the English language aren't you. I talk about
you telling lies and you say that I'm perfect?

Perhaps using your standards I am... I don't tell lies. Does that make
me a perfect person in your society?

John B. Slocomb
(johnbslocombatgmaildotcom)

 

[John B. Slocomb]

Are you saying that Windows isn't more susceptible to
malware/virii ?

Of course Windows is more susceptible to the present crop of
virus/mal-ware. That wasn't the point I was making. I was stating that
his simple waving his hands and shouting that "the sky is falling"
isn't, particularly with Alias, who has a history of either lying or
getting his facts mixed up.

True, Widows security has been improved dramatically over the
latest two Windows OSs, but there are still a couple hundred
thousand expolits waiting to infect any Windows box they can.

I came across a website just the other day as I was using Linux
that popped up the 'Infection Detected' window and tried to tell
me my Linux box was infected with Windows virii. For the life of
me, I can't remember what I was searching for, but I got to this
page from a Google search hit.

So I just close all FF Windows, restart FF, and then do my
Google search again and avoid the link I clicked on.

If I was using Windows, I would have needed to kill the FF
process, restart in safe mode, and then run Malewarebytes/Spybot
scans, as well as an AV scan, and check over some registry
settings and startup programs.

If that is the box that I have run it says something like "your
computer is infected, click here for a virus scan". If it is the same
they haven't made a scan and don't click on it. I've encountered it in
both Linux and Windows and it hasn't done anything.

I just think you picked the wrong subject to try to make your
point, as we all know, Malware/Spyware, and either through
automatic infection, or by some socially engineered infection
method, **is written for the Windows OS**, so by that token
alone I would think that it proves Windows *is* much much more
susceptible than Linux.

I don't think that is necessarily correct. There is no question that
there is more Windows mal-ware, and more being written every day, but
I think that Windows mal-ware is so pervasive simply because nearly
all computers are using Windows. Any marketing guru will tell you to
go for the mass market.

But don't get the idea that Linux is somehow completely bullet proof.
In fact Linux Format (a British magazine) in an article about
firewalls went to some length to make the point that while the vast
majority of mal-ware is for Windows as Linux gains a larger share of
the market the amount of Linux mal-ware will become greater.

Most personal Linux systems have java installed. Many run Thunderbird
or Firefox, openoffice will run scripts and those are all ways that
mal-ware can sneak into a system. If there are FTP or Telnet ports
open those can be a source of infection.

Even today it is not uncommon to read about a web site that was hacked
or financial records that were stolen. Nearly all of these take place
on sites using Linux equipment.


John B. Slocomb
(johnbslocombatgmaildotcom)

 

[DanS]

Of course Windows is more susceptible to the present crop
of virus/mal-ware. That wasn't the point I was making. I
was stating that his simple waving his hands and shouting
that "the sky is falling" isn't, particularly with Alias,
who has a history of either lying or getting his facts
mixed up.

<SNIP>

I'll repeat my paragraph below.

I don't think that is necessarily correct. There is no
question that there is more Windows mal-ware, and more
being written every day, but I think that Windows mal-ware
is so pervasive simply because nearly all computers are
using Windows. Any marketing guru will tell you to go for
the mass market.

But don't get the idea that Linux is somehow completely
bullet proof.

I don't believe any OS is completely bulletproof.

In fact Linux Format (a British magazine) in
an article about firewalls went to some length to make the
point that while the vast majority of mal-ware is for
Windows as Linux gains a larger share of the market the
amount of Linux mal-ware will become greater.

There may be an increase in Linux malware. Or, a little more
accurately, we may actually see malware that does target Linux
and that may be successful and exist in the wild. But it's not
really here now.

Most personal Linux systems have java installed. Many run
Thunderbird or Firefox, openoffice will run scripts and
those are all ways that mal-ware can sneak into a system.
If there are FTP or Telnet ports open those can be a source
of infection.
Yes.

Even today it is not uncommon to read about a web site that
was hacked or financial records that were stolen. Nearly
all of these take place on sites using Linux equipment.

It may sound cliche', but these are nearly exclusively traced
back to bad/unsafe configurations and weak passwords, or
unpatched systems, which can and do affect any OS. You would
expect any competant IT personel to follow proper security
measures and be able to keep up on things.

But I digress, the subject is maleware/spyware that affects
the home users. That is the biggest problem security wise. I'm
not concerned about some schmoe trying to gain access to my PC
using some remote buffer exploit and DOS attack......I'm
concerned about s/w being put on my machine that's stealing
logins and passwords from banking sites, and credit card
companies and such.

 

[Bob I]

The reason that "Linux" isn't targeted is that there aren't enough
installations to bother with. Lets face it, if the Mariposa botnet was
counted as separate OS, it would have more users than Linux!

 

[DanS]

The reason that "Linux" isn't targeted is that there aren't
enough installations to bother with. Lets face it, if the
Mariposa botnet was counted as separate OS, it would have
more users than Linux!

You are confirming is that Windows is the imminent target of
spyware/malware writers ? (Which was the original point of this
thread branch.)

It doesn't matter why. At this time, Windows is more susceptible
than Linux.

 

[Death]

You are confirming is that Windows is the imminent target of
spyware/malware writers ? (Which was the original point of this
thread branch.)

It doesn't matter why. At this time, Windows is more susceptible
than Linux.

People with money are more likely to be robbed.
No duh...moron.
Were you born stupid, or did a brick land in your brain cavity?

 

[John B. Slocomb]

No, you implied it.


And Windows.


People without problems, even newbies, don't post on the forums much so
what you're seeing is not a complete picture even though you represent
it as such.

Alias, how stupid are you?

You state "People without problems, even newbies, don't post on the
forums much...".

Tell us, of all the vast multitude of posts you have made in this
group how many were concerned with a problem that you are having?

"Hoisted on his own petard" is a term commonly applied to people like
you. "Liar" is another.

John B. Slocomb
(johnbslocombatgmaildotcom)

 

[John B. Slocomb]

First lie.

< I talk about

Second lie.

You see, you prove my point that your English is faulty.

I write that I talk about you telling lies and you say that I'm
perfect"
You call it a lie.

I wrote, " Certainly you appear to be much more inclined to tell lies
then tell the truth."
You wrote, "You can't reply to me without stating you are perfect..."

Then you state that I am lying when I repeat it.
Alias, you either can't read or you have an extremely short memory.
Or you are lying yet again.

Third lie.

Ah.. And what have I lied about?

You're far from perfect. You rely on ad hominem attacks for your
"arguments". That's very amateurish.

Are you really saying that when you expose your complete ignorance
about Windows (the kernel is the Registry) and Linux (based on the
desktop environment) and I state that you don't know what you are
talking about, that is a personal attack?

Either you don't actually know what the Latin means or you are simply
trying to cover up your ignorance.

An ad hominem (Latin: "argument toward the person" or "argument
against the person"), is an argument which links the validity of a
premise to a characteristic or belief of the person advocating the
premise.
In other words, if I argue that because you are a "dirty rat" your
evidence that you saw me rob the bank is not valid.

But that is not what happened. You made a totally erroneous statement
and I stated that you demonstrated your ignorance of the subject by
making that statement.
Hardly a personal attack, rather a statement of fact.

John B. Slocomb
(johnbslocombatgmaildotcom)

 

[John B. Slocomb]

No, it won't.


Only if it's configured to update itself.

Ah... You are the one that said Linux would update itself "IF IT WAS
CONFIGURED TO".

If that is an asset in Linux why is it that you don't accept that it
is an asset in windows?

John B. Slocomb
(johnbslocombatgmaildotcom)

 

[John B. Slocomb]

<SNIP>

I'll repeat my paragraph below.


I don't believe any OS is completely bulletproof.


There may be an increase in Linux malware. Or, a little more
accurately, we may actually see malware that does target Linux
and that may be successful and exist in the wild. But it's not
really here now.


It may sound cliche', but these are nearly exclusively traced
back to bad/unsafe configurations and weak passwords, or
unpatched systems, which can and do affect any OS. You would
expect any competant IT personel to follow proper security
measures and be able to keep up on things.

Read "The Cuckoo's Egg". It describes an attack made on a large number
of Unix installations. The point is that when the author attempted to
alert sites to the problem, in nearly all cases the sites refused to
answer as "their security was perfect".

System Administrators are hardly perfect.

(its a good read too

But I digress, the subject is maleware/spyware that affects
the home users. That is the biggest problem security wise. I'm
not concerned about some schmoe trying to gain access to my PC
using some remote buffer exploit and DOS attack......I'm
concerned about s/w being put on my machine that's stealing
logins and passwords from banking sites, and credit card
companies and such.

I agree, at the moment. The point that I was trying to make is that if
Linux ever gains a dominant position in the computer world that the
amount of Linux mal-ware will increase proportionally.

Reading http://www.linuxsecurity.com/content/section/3/170/ indicates
that essentially all Linux distros have weak areas that could be
exploited.

John B. Slocomb
(johnbslocombatgmaildotcom)

 

[Death]

Are you saying that all Windows users are rich and all Linux users are
poor or what?

I'm not saying that, though now that you've put it out there, perhaps you
have a good point.

What I'm saying is surely it would make sense that writers of malware would
target a system with the most users.
Just as a robber would target places where money is.
Robbers that target the homeless are just homeless robbers...they don't
really profit from their bad deeds.

But, come to think of it...Linux servers get hacked all the time...and Linux
users wouldn't even know if they've been hacked, as the system is already so
buggy to begin with.
Did a hack cause that lock up?
Or is compiz acting flaky again?

 

[John B. Slocomb]

If you can't see that you constantly use personal attacks to make your
"argument", I can't help you. If you can't see how picky you're being
and using that to distract from the main issue, I can't help you. In
fact, I doubt anyone can.

Ahhh... You lie about something and I catch you and I say "Alias, you
are a liar" and that is a personal attack....

You sound like the people that were too lazy to study and then said it
was unfair to give them a failing grade.

John B. Slocomb
(johnbslocombatgmaildotcom)