Wi-Fi Router choice

[Paul]

Followup:

I bought a Cisco/Linksys Powerline AV Ethernet Adapter Kit with two
adapters and the necessary Ethernet cables but the setup instructions
are so minimal that I haven't been able to get it all figured out,
yet. I used the CD and went through the setup process but my desktop
computer doesn't seem to recognize the adapter that is attached to it.

I attached the adapter's Ethernet cable to the existing Netgear router
and plugged the adapter into a wall outlet with no surge protector, as
recommended. The setup process seems to have gone well but I still
can't get any form of connection to my wife's computer.

I'm wondering if this setup requires that both adapters be plugged
into the same power circuit that is served by the same breaker in the
power panel. That is, maybe it can't communicate through the power
breaker box from one household power circuit to another.

I'll keep working with it and maybe I'll get it figured out. It does
seem strange that there was such a miniscule amount of information
available in the package.

Any ideas or suggestion?

Thanks, Gordon

http://homedownloads.cisco.com/downloads/userguide/PLEK_PLSK400_UG_3425_01337_EU_Web.pdf

"The LEDs are flashing and I don’t know what it means.

Refer to the following table of LED behavior to help diagnose the problem:

Powerline LED

Off = Not connected to Powerline network
Flashing fast = Send/Receive data
Flashing slow = Pairing
Solid = Connected to Powerline network

Ethernet LED

Off = Not connected to Ethernet network
Flashing = Send/Receive data
Solid = Connected to Ethernet network

Power LED

Off = Device power off
Solid = Device power on and ready
Flashing fast momentarily = Factory default, Device wakeup from standby mode
Flashing fast indefinitely = Pairing error/system error
Flashing slow = Device in standby mode
"

*******

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HomePlug

"HomePlug solved this problem by increasing the communication carrier frequencies
so that the signal is conveyed by the neutral conductor, which is common to all
phases."

HTH,
Paul

 

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Stephen Wolstenholme:

There are two wi-fi routers on my system. They don't need routers.

That one went right over my head.

Router vs WAP?

 

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Char Jackson:

I love dd-wrt even better.

What does dd-wrt do for you that Tomato does not?

I dabbled in dd-wrt, but went for Tomato for reasons I cannot
recall. Might've been the UI...

But the list of currently-produced Tomato-compatible routers
seems tb shrinking. OTOH, I only need one make/model tb
available bc my requirements are not that stringent.

 

[Antares 531]

I've deployed several Powerline units from Zyxel and Netgear and they
worked fine across different circuits.


No, not without a model number to go on. With the ones I've used, (and
currently have in my house, although not Linksys brand), you plug both
units into their respective outlets. Next, you press a button on the
side of the first unit, then within a certain time (like a minute or
two) you press the corresponding button on the second unit. They find
each other and agree on an encryption key, and it's done. There's a
small utility that comes with them that allows you to see their
connection status, power and noise levels, and allows you to change
the encryption key if you don't like the random key they've used. That
utility program, and indeed the entire CD, is optional, but it may
contain a user manual so it's worth checking out.

Sorry, I skipped the model number. The box shows the model number as
PLK200.

There are no buttons or switches on the plug-in adapters. I guess the
entire setup has to be done by and through the computer, some way.
I'll keep trying to figure it out, but my old brain isn't as sharp as
it used to be, so this may take a while.

Gordon

 

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Char Jackson:

A repeater should be the very last choice, only to be used in an act
of desperation. In theory, a repeater halves the available wireless
throughput because it has to spend half of its time dealing with the
access point and the other half of its time talking (repeating).

I fooled around with a repeater for use during a hospital stay
and found it slow as death.

A second access point is the better way to go

Once one has a few old WiFi routers laying around, WAPs become
almost trivial to add: about 45 seconds to turn DHCP off plus
pulling the Cat5.

 

[Char Jackson]

Sorry, I skipped the model number. The box shows the model number as
PLK200.

I see that the entire User Guide is available on the CD (and from the
menu that pops up when you run the CD), so you're not limited to the
Quick Install Guide. All of the documentation is also available
online, along with a version 3.3 firmware. I'd probably upgrade if you
have an earlier version.

There are no buttons or switches on the plug-in adapters. I guess the
entire setup has to be done by and through the computer, some way.
I'll keep trying to figure it out, but my old brain isn't as sharp as
it used to be, so this may take a while.

The User Guide has a fairly simple step by step procedure. I'm sure
you'll be fine if you follow that.

<http://homedownloads.cisco.com/downloads/userguide/1224640742700/PLE200_ug[1].pdf>

General product support page:
<http://homesupport.cisco.com/en-us/support/powerline/PLK200>

 

[Char Jackson]

Per Stephen Wolstenholme:

That one went right over my head.

Router vs WAP?

I think he meant to say that his routers don't need drivers**, which
would be a true statement.

**Meaning, the computers that are going to connect to that router
don't need a specific router driver since it's all common ordinary
everyday Ethernet.

 

[Char Jackson]

Per Char Jackson:

What does dd-wrt do for you that Tomato does not?

It's been awhile since I looked at Tomato, but I'll try. In dd-wrt,
besides all of the basics, I use the network scanning feature quite
often, the "Wiviz survey". I also use the feature that tells me how
much traffic I've used in a month. (I'm on Comcast, so until recently
that used to be very important.) I also use the real-time traffic
graphs from time to time. I could list 30 other things that I do on a
regular basis, but I don't know which are also available in Tomato.

The bottom line is that dd-wrt (and its cousins) reveals far more
access to the underlying hardware than Tomato, but if you don't need
those additional features, then they're of no value. So if Tomato is
doing what you need, stick with it. I thought it was fine until I
looked at dd-wrt and had an "oh crap, you mean I can do all of that?"
moment.

I dabbled in dd-wrt, but went for Tomato for reasons I cannot
recall. Might've been the UI...

Tomato's UI is (was) much cleaner than dd-wrt's, but the obvious
reason is that Tomato simply doesn't expose all of the things that
dd-wrt exposes. Again, those additional pieces may not be important to
you, which is fine.

But the list of currently-produced Tomato-compatible routers
seems tb shrinking. OTOH, I only need one make/model tb
available bc my requirements are not that stringent.

You're probably fine with Tomato, then, assuming it's still being
actively developed. When I used it, it was extremely stable and I did
like it, at least until I found dd-wrt.

 

[Char Jackson]

Per Char Jackson:

I fooled around with a repeater for use during a hospital stay
and found it slow as death.

Hospital, death, I get it. ;-)

Once one has a few old WiFi routers laying around, WAPs become
almost trivial to add: about 45 seconds to turn DHCP off plus
pulling the Cat5.

Yep. Piece o'cake, as they say.

 

[Stephen Wolstenholme]

Per Stephen Wolstenholme:

That one went right over my head.

And mine

I corrected it in my second message.

Steve

 

[XS11E]

I'm running Windows 7 Home Premium on my desktop computer and have
had a household wi-fi router setup for some time. A few weeks ago
our power line took a lightning strike and the surge from this
knocked my wi-fi system out. I have tried two replacements but can
not get the connectivity I had with the old Netgear setup. My
wife's kitchen computer, running Windows XP, will not hold a
connection more than a few minutes. This computer is downstairs
and around the corner of our L shaped house.

What is the best wi-fi router choice in terms of signal strength
and stability?

I've found little difference between Netgear, D-Link and Cisco
(Linksys) routers in my house other than I did try a D-Link N-150
(their least expensive?) and had problems with the signal dropping in
the farthest parts of the house. Reading reports online convinced me
that particular router isn't a good one nor is it representitive of D-
Link routers.

NOTE: If you can live with a "G" router rather than an "N" router,
they all seem to be good, it appears problems begin with "N" speed
routers, I don't know why that should be?

 

[s|b]

Second, recent wireless hardware from the known brands are arriving
with a 'guest network' feature. This is a second SSID, separate from
the main SSID, that allows your guests to access your Internet
connection without being able to access your LAN. These guest networks
appear to be unencrypted, but when you connect and fire up a web
browser, you're prompted to enter a PIN to continue.

A PIN code /or/ you push the WPS button on the router. At least, that is
my experience.

So they aren't
really open, after all.

I suspect you're seeing one of those situations, probably the former.

A friend of mine has a router with WPS. It's still visible as
'protected'. When I tried to connect with it using my Nokia N9, I got
the option to either type in the PIN code (which he didn't know; the ISP
set up the router) or use the WPS button on the router or manually enter
the encryption key.

 

[s|b]

Is there a problem setting up security with Linksys? I ask because
when I look at the list of wireless connections in my area there is
often two Linksys listed. Neither need a security key.

If they're unprotected, then it's probably a case of PEBKAC. Or like
Steve suggested: maybe they only /appear/ to be unprotected.

However, there /is/ a security problem with some Linksys routers and
it's about the WPS function. That's why I installed the DD-WRT firmware
on my E2000 (although I think it's always a good idea to choose DD-WRT
over the original firmware).

 

[Wolf K]

(Router has its own processor,
firmware, Wifi MAC and radio, and
needs no external help.)

Router
/ \
/ \
Wifi Card Wifi Card
Wifi Driver Wifi Driver
OS OS
Computer #1 Computer #2

Each computer, with a Wifi card or device, has a driver
so that the OS can use it. The drivers are considered
to be a user installable part on the computer end.

Thanks for making explicit what I left implicit.

My reasoning was as follows: OP referred to the XP machine dropping the
connection after a few minutes, which suggested a driver problem in the
XP machine. I've had that problem: a USB dongle that worked glitch-free
with W7 dropped the connection at random intervals when running Ubuntu
10. (I never did find a driver that worked.) I suspect that the dongle
and the router didn't "agree" on all the details of the connection, or
maybe timings were off just enough to cause a problem. Or some other
weirdness.

 

[Wolf K]

I'll be charitable and assume you're trying to help.

But if that's true, then please be a little more careful about what
you say. (I believe others have suggested this to you in the past.)

There is no "router driver" on a Windows computer, because the router
is an external device that is not connected to or configured by
Windows.

I know. But the XP machine dropped the connection, and one possible
cause for that is a driver problem. In the XP machine of course. (Do I
really have to spell out everything? See my answer to Paul.)

There is probably some sort of wireless driver, [...]

See Paul's post.

 

[Wolf K]

Your clarification didn't help, but I see that a couple of folks have
gently guided you back onto the path, so I think we're ok.

It didn't help those who ignored my advice to pay attention to context.
You know, the OP's description of the problem. Where he mentioned that
thew W7 machine had no problems, but the XP one did. Etc.

You assumed that I didn't know where the wi-fi drivers are. And you
apparently have never had wi-fi driver problems. I have. Exactly the
same as OP, actually, but with Linux, not XP.

Have a good day.

 

[Char Jackson]

It didn't help those who ignored my advice to pay attention to context.
You know, the OP's description of the problem. Where he mentioned that
thew W7 machine had no problems, but the XP one did. Etc.

You assumed that I didn't know where the wi-fi drivers are. And you
apparently have never had wi-fi driver problems. I have. Exactly the
same as OP, actually, but with Linux, not XP.

Have a good day.

I should just let this go, but I wanted to acknowledge that I did,
indeed, assume something. When you said, "Make sure the XP machine has
the correct driver for the router", I assumed that you thought
computers need drivers for routers. They don't, because there's no
such thing.

Enjoy your day.

 

[Char Jackson]

A PIN code /or/ you push the WPS button on the router. At least, that is
my experience.

I believe you're mixing two things. The primary (non-guest) network
can be joined by entering the proper password, entering the WPS PIN if
WPS is used, or by using the automatic handshake if the WPS button can
be pushed.

The guest network, on the other hand, has no access to WPS. Or at
least, I haven't come across such a thing yet. I know WPS has a broken
implementation, but I hope it's not broken enough to extend to the
guest network.

A friend of mine has a router with WPS. It's still visible as
'protected'. When I tried to connect with it using my Nokia N9, I got
the option to either type in the PIN code (which he didn't know; the ISP
set up the router) or use the WPS button on the router or manually enter
the encryption key.

Exactly, but I'm guessing that wasn't a guest network. If you had
attempted to join the guest network, (assuming his router has one),
you should have had the option to enter a password or PIN, but not use
WPS.

In my post above, I was specifically referring to guest networks that
appear to be unencrypted, but aren't. There are also such things as
guest networks that appear to unencrypted and really are exactly that,
or guest networks that are simply encrypted. In all three examples,
WPS isn't an option, AFAIK.

As you mentioned in another post, WPS is broken in most routers, not
limited to any one brand. New firmware is slowly being released to fix
the issue, at least in the case of Linksys. Just another reason to use
third party firmware!

 

[Stan Brown]

I know. But the XP machine dropped the connection, and one possible
cause for that is a driver problem. In the XP machine of course. (Do I
really have to spell out everything? See my answer to Paul.)

Straw man alert!

No one is suggesting you "spell out everything". Those of us who
have coirrected you are simply saying that what you *do* say should
be accurate or i would be better left unsaid.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

There is for the one below; the driver in this case is an electric
motor.

http://tinyurl.com/8t46ja5

(Couldn't resist.)

Ah: I think in UK one is pronounced rooter, and the other row- (as in
now or cow, not what you do with oars) ter. I can't remember which is
which, but it's probably the opposite way round to the US way! Rather
like tomato - which is mentioned in another post in this thread! (Also
what one does is route, and the other rout; I think the one that routes
signals routes, since it is helping them on their way.) [Though a rout
in the military sense could be said to do that too - isn't our language
wonderful!]

(I also think a "profiling tool" is something that should not be used by
a journalist/market researcher/etc., but by a woodworker.)

Some in the USA pronounce route (in any sense) to rhyme with out; I
rhyme it with oat when it's a noun meaning a highway or a path, but
thanks to time in the Navy and in Silicon Valley, I rhyme it with out
when it's a verb meaning to direct or to move along a path or among a
set of people.

So I might rowt a journey along a new root.