Nibiru2012
Quick Scotty, beam me up!
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2009
- Messages
- 4,955
- Reaction score
- 1,302
I beg to disagree on this one. When the Paging File is on a secondary drive its size should be set to equal the size of the RAM.
SOLVED Virtual Memory - Do I have this right ?
- Thread starter sethm1
- Start date
- Joined
- May 10, 2010
- Messages
- 9,362
- Reaction score
- 1,587
Nibs, I think he decided to leave his paging file on his C: drive, he's just using the new drive for back-up.
Also I have read that if you have 6GB or more of RAM you are better off with a static 1GB paging file. <- poster I have read this but I wouldn't take this as gospel, I'm just mentioning it to Nibs.
Also I have read that if you have 6GB or more of RAM you are better off with a static 1GB paging file. <- poster I have read this but I wouldn't take this as gospel, I'm just mentioning it to Nibs.
Last edited:
Nibiru2012
Quick Scotty, beam me up!
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2009
- Messages
- 4,955
- Reaction score
- 1,302
Just about every article I've read has stated that the Paging File should be set to equal the RAM amount on a secondary hard drive. There are a couple of articles that said to make a fixed Paging File of 300MB on the C drive and one equal to the RAM on the secondary drive.
Really, to be honest, with the way systems are these days no is no reason to make the Paging File larger than the amount of RAM; i.e., 4GB of RAM equals 4GB of Paging File, not system managed but as a fixed file.
I suppose we could discuss this until Doomsday occurs. Actually he did it they way he wanted and it seems as if it was a waste of time and web space. I have learned basically everything through trial and error, using search engines and other sites for learning.
To quote Robert Heinlein: "I never learned anything from a man who agreed with me."
Nibiru2012- What is a good setting for my back up drive?
(its connected to the motherboard and not as a USB drive)
On the C drive (with respect to Window 7 64 bit PC's- I have read of various options:
System managed to 1.5 times RAM to min & max at the same number.
I have 6 GB of DDR3 RAM and for now its set at System managed.
(its connected to the motherboard and not as a USB drive)
On the C drive (with respect to Window 7 64 bit PC's- I have read of various options:
System managed to 1.5 times RAM to min & max at the same number.
I have 6 GB of DDR3 RAM and for now its set at System managed.
- Joined
- May 10, 2010
- Messages
- 9,362
- Reaction score
- 1,587
For your system you have to make up your own mind but these are various things I have read...
Most articles say the following is stupid and you need a pagefile, but this is where I got the idea that if you had an SSD drive you could disable pagefile. I found at least 2 articles that said if you have very fast harddrives (like an SSD) then you could disable the pagefile but noted that certain applications read the pagefile size so they recommended setting it to at least 512MB and the other said 1GB. *** From the rest of the articles I have been reading I don't think I would go with this advice, and as I said on my computer I haven't followed this but then again I don't have a SSD anyway. These were definately not Microsoft ideas so ...
I've been reading up on this several hours now, hoping to find the right answer in microsoft.com but there is very little there. There was alot about XP and Windows Server 2003 but not much on W7.
I did find one article at microsoft.com (it does say for Vista but I believe it still applies) suggests using system settings unless you get a virtual memory low warning. "Windows sets the initial minimum size of the paging file at the amount of random access memory (RAM) installed on your computer plus 300 megabytes (MB), and the maximum size at 3 times the amount of RAM installed on your computer"
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-vista/Change-the-size-of-virtual-memory
So back outside of Microsoft.com ...
For most people just use the system settings. If you have two HDs then you can put a pagefile on the second drive but should still leave one on the primary HD.
http://www.tweakhound.com/windows7/tweaking/7.html
http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/understanding-windows-vista-paging-file-size/
This article says yes Never disable it, yes put it on a second HD, but that 1.5times the RAM is too big for the low end size setting...
http://lifehacker.com/5426041/understanding-the-windows-pagefile-and-why-you-shouldnt-disable-it
This article also says the 1.5 is not accurate...
http://blogs.technet.com/b/markrussinovich/archive/2008/11/17/3155406.aspx
So now ... I'm more confused then before
Most articles say the following is stupid and you need a pagefile, but this is where I got the idea that if you had an SSD drive you could disable pagefile. I found at least 2 articles that said if you have very fast harddrives (like an SSD) then you could disable the pagefile but noted that certain applications read the pagefile size so they recommended setting it to at least 512MB and the other said 1GB. *** From the rest of the articles I have been reading I don't think I would go with this advice, and as I said on my computer I haven't followed this but then again I don't have a SSD anyway. These were definately not Microsoft ideas so ...
I've been reading up on this several hours now, hoping to find the right answer in microsoft.com but there is very little there. There was alot about XP and Windows Server 2003 but not much on W7.
I did find one article at microsoft.com (it does say for Vista but I believe it still applies) suggests using system settings unless you get a virtual memory low warning. "Windows sets the initial minimum size of the paging file at the amount of random access memory (RAM) installed on your computer plus 300 megabytes (MB), and the maximum size at 3 times the amount of RAM installed on your computer"
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-vista/Change-the-size-of-virtual-memory
So back outside of Microsoft.com ...
For most people just use the system settings. If you have two HDs then you can put a pagefile on the second drive but should still leave one on the primary HD.
http://www.tweakhound.com/windows7/tweaking/7.html
http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/understanding-windows-vista-paging-file-size/
This article says yes Never disable it, yes put it on a second HD, but that 1.5times the RAM is too big for the low end size setting...
http://lifehacker.com/5426041/understanding-the-windows-pagefile-and-why-you-shouldnt-disable-it
This article also says the 1.5 is not accurate...
http://blogs.technet.com/b/markrussinovich/archive/2008/11/17/3155406.aspx
So now ... I'm more confused then before
Last edited:
Nibiru2012
Quick Scotty, beam me up!
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2009
- Messages
- 4,955
- Reaction score
- 1,302
First you must understand the Paging Files deal only with programs and the Windows 7 operating system, okay?
DO NOT put a Paging file on the C Drive. None, zip, zilch, zero, nada, nyet, nein, etc., no paging file.
On the backup drive, put NO MORE than a 6GB file size, or 6144MB in size. You already have 6GB of RAM so you don't have to do the old way of RAM x 1.5=Page File size.
Set the Paging File on the secondary drive to a Fixed size, not system managed. With the advent of larger amounts of on-board RAM and faster bus speeds, the old Rx1.5 rule is antiquated.
It was only good when most people did not even have 1GB of RAM installed. if that much.
Your system will run better now.
I have done it this way for over 7 years and never had any Paging File problems. As a matter of fact I'll be cutting the Paging File back to 4GB because the maximum it has reached at 6GB size is only 24% usage.
Last edited:
- Joined
- May 10, 2010
- Messages
- 9,362
- Reaction score
- 1,587
BTW: I am still looking and the articles that do suggest putting the pagefile on the second drive, definately agree with Nibs that it should be the very first thing on the drive (immediately after formatting) so that it is on the shortest seek path for the read/write arms of the HD.
Nibiru2012
Quick Scotty, beam me up!
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2009
- Messages
- 4,955
- Reaction score
- 1,302
TM - People who have SSDs put the Paging File on the secondary hard drive.
They also do the same with all their Temp Folders.
They also do the same with all their Temp Folders.
- Joined
- May 10, 2010
- Messages
- 9,362
- Reaction score
- 1,587
Unless they come down in price I probably won't get an SSD anyway, I'd likely go to a USB 3.0 drive first because I download lots and lots of A/V files and need space more than speed.
It was originally more an attempt at humor when I threw it out there based on something I saw in passing but it took a more serious turn with Clifford so I simply offered up my reason for my statement but still really doesn't apply here anyway.
BTW NIbs, did you read the Tweakhound article suggesting you should still leave a 300MB pagefile on the OS drive (typically C: ) ?
It was originally more an attempt at humor when I threw it out there based on something I saw in passing but it took a more serious turn with Clifford so I simply offered up my reason for my statement but still really doesn't apply here anyway.
BTW NIbs, did you read the Tweakhound article suggesting you should still leave a 300MB pagefile on the OS drive (typically C: ) ?
Last edited:
Nibiru2012
Quick Scotty, beam me up!
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2009
- Messages
- 4,955
- Reaction score
- 1,302
Yeah, I did read that article, and I find it to be the only article that suggested that. I was just giving him advice that has been working for me for quite a few years, but now that I reflect a little, maybe just a 300MB Page File wouldn't be that "obtrusive" on the C drive.
I may try it just for grins. Like you I'm waiting for SSDs to become more "cost efficient".
But darn it... they're so tempting, like those donut holes in the baker's glass case I could see but couldn't buy when I was a kid!
I may try it just for grins. Like you I'm waiting for SSDs to become more "cost efficient".
But darn it... they're so tempting, like those donut holes in the baker's glass case I could see but couldn't buy when I was a kid!
Last edited:
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2009
- Messages
- 1,175
- Reaction score
- 272
Russinovich's conclusions are, to me, much more reliable and logical than anything I've seen Microsoft themselves release.This article also says the 1.5 is not accurate...
http://blogs.technet.com/b/markrussinovich/archive/2008/11/17/3155406.aspx
So now ... I'm more confused then before
So go back into the Virtual Memory settings and change the setting of the C drive from
"System manage size" to "No paging file"?
Then re-partition the B drive and make the front end some where between 300MB to 9216MB ?
But then this new drive will have 2 partitions- will that confuse the PC any more? And would the larger Partition be set at "System managed"?
One of the articles mentioned having the page file on its own hard drive- wonder what the smallest HD is I could find at my local store.
I just the article : http://lifehacker.com/5426041/understanding-the-windows-pagefile-and-why-you-shouldnt-disable-it and seems that author has his PC set to System Managed. But what is not clear is what he has set up for any secondary drives.
With all these articles (even others I read before I began the post) is why do you set a paging file on a drive other than your C drive? I don't understand how the PC knows the paging file is on a "B" Drive when in the Virtual Memory settings I am not asked to say create a folder on another drive.
So the PC just knows that the paging file is not on the C but the B drive?
As usual, the more I know the more I am confused.
Thx
"System manage size" to "No paging file"?
Then re-partition the B drive and make the front end some where between 300MB to 9216MB ?
But then this new drive will have 2 partitions- will that confuse the PC any more? And would the larger Partition be set at "System managed"?
One of the articles mentioned having the page file on its own hard drive- wonder what the smallest HD is I could find at my local store.
I just the article : http://lifehacker.com/5426041/understanding-the-windows-pagefile-and-why-you-shouldnt-disable-it and seems that author has his PC set to System Managed. But what is not clear is what he has set up for any secondary drives.
With all these articles (even others I read before I began the post) is why do you set a paging file on a drive other than your C drive? I don't understand how the PC knows the paging file is on a "B" Drive when in the Virtual Memory settings I am not asked to say create a folder on another drive.
So the PC just knows that the paging file is not on the C but the B drive?
As usual, the more I know the more I am confused.
Thx
Last edited:
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2009
- Messages
- 1,175
- Reaction score
- 272
It knows the file is on the B drive because you put it there. In the virtual memory settings window you can see all the partitions/drives, and if there is a paging file set for that drive, then it exists on that drive. If not, then it doesn't.
Okay...as a general rule, leave it to Windows (Vista and newer; XP is a different matter) to manage automatically unless it becomes an issue for some reason.
You can disable the paging file entirely on a system (like a HTPC/media server) where you can be certain that the commit never exceeds physical memory. In a situation like that you can see a performance improvement, but like I said, this is not typical. If your system runs out of physical memory and there's no virtual memory (paging file) to use, then it's system crash, goodnight Martha, and not even a kernel dump as a souvenir.
Windows will use whatever virtual memory you have made available. You can set up several paging files on different drives/partitions, but what's the point? One should be enough, and keeping it on your system partition makes sense. Let Windows manage it unless there's a problem; don't fix what isn't broken.
Okay...as a general rule, leave it to Windows (Vista and newer; XP is a different matter) to manage automatically unless it becomes an issue for some reason.
You can disable the paging file entirely on a system (like a HTPC/media server) where you can be certain that the commit never exceeds physical memory. In a situation like that you can see a performance improvement, but like I said, this is not typical. If your system runs out of physical memory and there's no virtual memory (paging file) to use, then it's system crash, goodnight Martha, and not even a kernel dump as a souvenir.
Windows will use whatever virtual memory you have made available. You can set up several paging files on different drives/partitions, but what's the point? One should be enough, and keeping it on your system partition makes sense. Let Windows manage it unless there's a problem; don't fix what isn't broken.
- Joined
- May 10, 2010
- Messages
- 9,362
- Reaction score
- 1,587
Sethm1, if you are going with Nibs advice ...
The pagefile does not need to be all by itself on the HD, not even its' own partition, it simply suggests it should be on a separate physical HD than the one your OS is on and that it should be the very first file on that HD so it has the shortest seek time. (If the file was not a fixed size then partitioning would help keep it from becoming fragmented as it changes BUT) Nibs says you should use a fixed file size so once it's there it will take the full size you allocate and it won't fragment so it doesn't need its' own partition. (If you were to decide on system managed instead of fixed then YES it would be better to allocate a small partition, perhaps 7GB, as the first partition but this then will take a drive letter - you don't need this if you use Fixed)
If still following Nibs advice, do a format your new drive and then immediately allocate a fixed page size on the new drive the same size as your RAM (6GB I believe you have), Fixed not "system managed".
And set the pagefile on your OS drive (probably C: ) to no paging file. W7 knows where the pagefil.sys folders are and will use them accordingly.
The pagefile does not need to be all by itself on the HD, not even its' own partition, it simply suggests it should be on a separate physical HD than the one your OS is on and that it should be the very first file on that HD so it has the shortest seek time. (If the file was not a fixed size then partitioning would help keep it from becoming fragmented as it changes BUT) Nibs says you should use a fixed file size so once it's there it will take the full size you allocate and it won't fragment so it doesn't need its' own partition. (If you were to decide on system managed instead of fixed then YES it would be better to allocate a small partition, perhaps 7GB, as the first partition but this then will take a drive letter - you don't need this if you use Fixed)
If still following Nibs advice, do a format your new drive and then immediately allocate a fixed page size on the new drive the same size as your RAM (6GB I believe you have), Fixed not "system managed".
And set the pagefile on your OS drive (probably C: ) to no paging file. W7 knows where the pagefil.sys folders are and will use them accordingly.
TrainableMan -
RE:
If still following Nibs advice, do a format your new drive and then immediately allocate a fixed page size on the new drive the same size as your RAM (6GB I believe you have), Fixed not "system managed".
So -
1. format the B drive.
2. go in to the Virtual Memory menu,
3. Change C to "no paging file."
4. Set B to Custom Size (Min & Max of 6 GB - which is my on board RAM).
In Win 7 do not need 1.5 times RAM as with older OS's ?
5. Reboot the PC - probably not necessary, but would not hurt.
And then
6. Start using the B drive as my back up drive. Yes?
RE:
If still following Nibs advice, do a format your new drive and then immediately allocate a fixed page size on the new drive the same size as your RAM (6GB I believe you have), Fixed not "system managed".
So -
1. format the B drive.
2. go in to the Virtual Memory menu,
3. Change C to "no paging file."
4. Set B to Custom Size (Min & Max of 6 GB - which is my on board RAM).
In Win 7 do not need 1.5 times RAM as with older OS's ?
5. Reboot the PC - probably not necessary, but would not hurt.
And then
6. Start using the B drive as my back up drive. Yes?
- Joined
- May 10, 2010
- Messages
- 9,362
- Reaction score
- 1,587
The list of articles and Nibs agree that equal to your RAM is good, not 1.5 times any more.
I would verify there is a hidden page file on your new HD before you start using it for your backups. (You may need to enable see system files/folders)
I would verify there is a hidden page file on your new HD before you start using it for your backups. (You may need to enable see system files/folders)
Nibiru2012
Quick Scotty, beam me up!
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2009
- Messages
- 4,955
- Reaction score
- 1,302
sethm1 - That is correct! :top:
help still.
For the B Drive set it to Min & Max at 6144mb
For the C Drive set it to No paging file.
PC suggested a reboot.
After the re-boot a error window popped up:
"Windows created a temporary paging file because of a problem that occured with your paging file..."
What now?
Oh, and where is the temporary paging file? As after the above is corrected, I'll want to delete it, yes?
Update:
going to bed soon and to be safe I changed the C drive setting to System Managed.
Did leave the B drive alone.
Oh, there is 6.10GB page file on the B drive. So I don't understand the above error.
And I now have 2 Recycle Bins - one on the Desktop & one on the new HD, with both the same content (eg: recycled trash) !
For the B Drive set it to Min & Max at 6144mb
For the C Drive set it to No paging file.
PC suggested a reboot.
After the re-boot a error window popped up:
"Windows created a temporary paging file because of a problem that occured with your paging file..."
What now?
Oh, and where is the temporary paging file? As after the above is corrected, I'll want to delete it, yes?
Update:
going to bed soon and to be safe I changed the C drive setting to System Managed.
Did leave the B drive alone.
Oh, there is 6.10GB page file on the B drive. So I don't understand the above error.
And I now have 2 Recycle Bins - one on the Desktop & one on the new HD, with both the same content (eg: recycled trash) !
Last edited: