Two mice on one computer.

[Mortimer]

We do not. I use a mouse "righthanded". You may have read my
other post where I mention scrolling with a mouse while taking notes.

You might try using explicitly lefthanded equipment for a while
and see how awkward it could be. By "explicitly", I mean equipment
that has to be mirror-image to use comfortably. One example of this
is a good pair of scissors.

I tried using left-handed scissors with my left hand. Until I came across
them, I'd never encountered scissors that were "handed" - most of the pairs
I'd encountered until then were neutral and could (presumably) be used
equally easily by either hand. I didn't have *quite* the same control with
my left hand, but I dare say with a bit of practice I could become as
proficient.

I usually pour (kettle, pan of milk, etc) with my left hand so I can stir in
what I'm pouring with my right hand.

Maybe I'm more ambidextrous than some people, though I'd never have thought
of being so. I can do most unskilled, non-precision things with either hand,
though it's a little or a lot easier with my right hand. It's only precision
things like writing, picking things up with tweezers or sewing on a button
with a needle that I *have* to use my right hand.

I've never felt the urge to do things the opposite way round (eg mirror
image) if I use my left hand. That's why it puzzles me that some
left-handers swap their buttons on their mouse. If everyone learns to write
from left to right (*) or to read by turning the pages from right to left
(obviously the opposite way round in Arabic, Hebrew and Japanese)
irrespective of which hand they write with, why are mouse buttons different?


(*) I remember my maths teacher, normally a very dour Scottish guy, amazed
us all near the end of term on the all-the-sevens day (7 July 1977) by
showing his party trick: he had kept it very secret that he was ambidextrous
and could write forwards or mirror-image with either/both hands. He wrote
the same thing forwards with both hands simultaneously. He wrote forwards
with one hand and mirror-image with the other simultaneously. He even wrote
one line left to right then the next line right to left but still with the
letters and words the right way round, like watching an old dot-matrix
printer printing.

 

[Peter Jason]

Do you have two? then try it.

I'll go and buy one and try.

 

[Peter Jason]

I'm not interested in having two mouses but that looks like a very good
point! I have three buttons: left, double click and right and I still
make mistakes after months of use.

I changed to my left hand when I had a case of RSI
(since fixed) and it was necessary to reverse the
buttons on the mouse. I took only a day to get
used to it.

 

[Peter Jason]

Ah, is the "handedness" of the buttons common to all mice, rather than being
configurable separately for each one?

In that case, how about having one mouse but creating two Windows users. I
*think* handedness of mouse is per-user.

Alternatively, train the left-handed user to use their right finger to
operate the right mouse button and left finger to do the left button. I'm
reasonable strongly right-handed but it was dead easy operating the mouse
with my left hand and left-clicking with the left button. Why do
left-handers expect everything to be a mirror-image for them? My mum is
left-handed but she learned from an early age to use her cutlery the
conventional way round (fork in left, knife in right) and writes (with her
left hand) with the pen in a sensible configuration, rather than trying to
curl her hand over the top of the pen. The only thing she had to adapt to,
she says, was making sure her hand didn't blot the fountain pen ink (biros
weren't very common when she was a child) with her hand.

I wonder if left-handed people in general are more strongly polarised to
using their left hand, whereas right-handed people are a little more
ambidextrous and (at a pinch) can use their left hand for non-precision
tasks that they would normally do with their right hand. I can cut with
scissors or pour from a kettle almost as easily with my left as my right,
though I'm by no means ambidextrous when it comes to writing - with my left
hand, my writing is like a five-year-old's

Though born left-handed, I learned to use to write
with my right hand because the writing goes from
left to right. Likewise for the mouse, that was
just an extension of this. I can write mirror
writing like Leonardo without any trouble, maybe
because of all this.

To use the left hand with the mouse it was
necessary to reverse the buttons though.

 

[Peter Jason]

Get a cordless mouse. Use it wherever you (or the other user) wants.
Make sure to get a neutrally-shaped mouse; i.e., one that is symmetrical
so it is usable by both left and right hand.

The problem is changing orientation of the primary and alternate mouse
buttons. You could just go into the Mouse applet in Control Panel to
swap the mouse buttons. There are utilities to do the same, like at
http://www.softpedia.com/dyn-search.php?search_term=swap+mouse+buttons.
You could also use a key mapper (e.g., AutoIt, AutoHotkey) to program a
hotkey combo that would swap the mouse buttons; see
http://superuser.com/questions/4396...ded-and-another-right-handed-at-the-same-time.

This is a great idea and I'll look into it. A
hotkey sounds like the idea.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

I tried using left-handed scissors with my left hand. Until I came across
them, I'd never encountered scissors that were "handed" - most of the pairs
I'd encountered until then were neutral and could (presumably) be used
equally easily by either hand.

No, they were in fact all right-handed scissors.

It has to do with the way the hand pressure tends to push the blade
faces together for the correct hand or apart for the other hand. Not the
cutting movement, but sideways at right angles to that.

I didn't have *quite* the same control with
my left hand, but I dare say with a bit of practice I could become as
proficient.

I usually pour (kettle, pan of milk, etc) with my left hand so I can stir in
what I'm pouring with my right hand.

Maybe I'm more ambidextrous than some people, though I'd never have thought
of being so. I can do most unskilled, non-precision things with either hand,
though it's a little or a lot easier with my right hand. It's only precision
things like writing, picking things up with tweezers or sewing on a button
with a needle that I *have* to use my right hand.

I'm right-handed, but I naturally do a handful (oops) of things
left-handed. Deal playing cards, boxing (fisticuffs), baseball batting.
For optical instruments I use the left eye.

snip

(*) I remember my maths teacher, normally a very dour Scottish guy, amazed
us all near the end of term on the all-the-sevens day (7 July 1977) by
showing his party trick: he had kept it very secret that he was ambidextrous
and could write forwards or mirror-image with either/both hands. He wrote
the same thing forwards with both hands simultaneously. He wrote forwards
with one hand and mirror-image with the other simultaneously. He even wrote
one line left to right then the next line right to left but still with the
letters and words the right way round, like watching an old dot-matrix
printer printing.

That would be a treat to watch...

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

This is set by the OS (expecting only one mouse, as both Bill Gates
and Linus probably assumed an age ago.) But if you had two mice
with different drivers, you could try configuring one as RH and the
other as LH, and then test whether the OS by itself reset both the same
or permitted them to differ.

When I checked what I posted to Gene Wirchenko, I noted that the changes
I made appeared in both mice. I probably only have one driver for both,
even though the names looked different. Sorry, I made no effort to find
out about that.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

I've never felt the urge to do things the opposite way round (eg mirror
image) if I use my left hand. That's why it puzzles me that some
left-handers swap their buttons on their mouse.

I always felt that it was main finger versus secondary finger. And
there's a reason we call that finger the index finger...

(I meant to put this in my first reply with the other stuff.)

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Years ago we had a Sun workstation at work. It had a mouse that needed a
special mouse mat with finely ruled lines: the horizontal lines were one
colour and the vertical lines were another. If you happened to turn the mat
through 90 degrees (and it was almost square, so it was an easy mistake to
make) the pointer would move horizontally as you moved the mouse vertically,
and vice versa. Now that was VERY confusing

Yep. I also had one of those workstations with one of those mouses.

I ended up liking the other kind better

 

[charlie]

Yep. I also had one of those workstations with one of those mouses.

I ended up liking the other kind better

One trackball, one mouse, and a touch pad can cohabit the same machine
(laptop).
And, yes which button does what can get confusing.
In such a situation, it seems that the trackball and mouse can usually
use the same MS drivers. The touchpad can be a different story, or even
work (without some of the fanciness) with very basic touchpad drivers
(minidriver?), or the MS mouse driver.

I dislike a mouse, and prefer a trackball. Perhaps it's because the
trackball stays (mostly) in one spot. Actually, I've been using a
trackball off and on since the minicomputer days. Some of the HP
technical systems used trackball in a Z80 based "smart" graphics
terminal interfaced with 2100 series minicomputers, which in turn,
controlled instrumentation and so forth.(Circa 1977 into the late 80s
and early 90s.)
The 2100 series was eventually replaced with a microprocessor based
computer, and the "smart" terminals with the now common monitor keyboard
mouse combination.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

One trackball, one mouse, and a touch pad can cohabit the same machine
(laptop).
And, yes which button does what can get confusing.
In such a situation, it seems that the trackball and mouse can usually
use the same MS drivers. The touchpad can be a different story, or even
work (without some of the fanciness) with very basic touchpad drivers
(minidriver?), or the MS mouse driver.

I dislike a mouse, and prefer a trackball. Perhaps it's because the
trackball stays (mostly) in one spot. Actually, I've been using a
trackball off and on since the minicomputer days. Some of the HP
technical systems used trackball in a Z80 based "smart" graphics
terminal interfaced with 2100 series minicomputers, which in turn,
controlled instrumentation and so forth.(Circa 1977 into the late 80s
and early 90s.)
The 2100 series was eventually replaced with a microprocessor based
computer, and the "smart" terminals with the now common monitor keyboard
mouse combination.

To summarize some of the above, 'which pointing device' is a very
personal decision.

So, I will never disagree with your preference

I also like trackballs, but never get around to trying one.

My friend hates touchpads and always uses a mouse on her work laptop,
and her home laptop when she used one. I always use the touchpad on my
laptops. Your mileage *will* vary.

I guess I'm in a redundant mood. Sorry - and please feel free not to
read this post

 

[Ken Blake]

To summarize some of the above, 'which pointing device' is a very
personal decision.

I'm with you entirely! With pointing devices, there's no "right"
that's right for everyone.

So, I will never disagree with your preference

I also like trackballs, but never get around to trying one.

And I hate trackballs (probably because I'm not used to them, and
always try to move them around like a mouse).

My friend hates touchpads and always uses a mouse on her work laptop,
and her home laptop when she used one. I always use the touchpad on my
laptops.

And I'm with your friend entirely. A touchpad is even worse than a
trackball.

 

[James Silverton]

I'm with you entirely! With pointing devices, there's no "right"
that's right for everyone.




And I hate trackballs (probably because I'm not used to them, and
always try to move them around like a mouse).





And I'm with your friend entirely. A touchpad is even worse than a
trackball.

I agree with you. I *can* get by with the touch pad on my lap top but I
often carry a small mouse with a retractable cord in case I have to do
extensive work.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

I agree with you. I *can* get by with the touch pad on my lap top but I
often carry a small mouse with a retractable cord in case I have to do
extensive work.

Look at all this variable mileage!

I got that part right

 

[Gene Wirchenko]

[snip]

And I'm with your friend entirely. A touchpad is even worse than a
trackball.

A touchpad is horrid IMHO. I always have my attention on using
it when I am using one.

I use a ball mouse. Optical mouses have a failure mode where the
mouse pointer gets reset. (I do not know why this happens, but it
happened enough to me that I decided enough with the optical mouses.)
If a ball mouse gives trouble, it does not move the pointer. This is
IME, usual disclaimers, you know the drill. The price is having to
occasionally clean the inside of the mouse.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

 

[Ken Blake]

I agree with you. I *can* get by with the touch pad on my lap top but I
often carry a small mouse with a retractable cord in case I have to do
extensive work.

I *always* carry my small mouse. The only time I use the touchpad is
in a place like an airport, where I have to use the laptop on my lap
and there's no place to put the mouse.

 

[choro]

I *always* carry my small mouse. The only time I use the touchpad is
in a place like an airport, where I have to use the laptop on my lap
and there's no place to put the mouse.

I too use the mouse exclusively. I have trouble with touchpads.

May be my skin is too smooth.

Though some touchpads do seem more responsive than others. --
choro
*****

 

[Mortimer]

[snip]

And I'm with your friend entirely. A touchpad is even worse than a
trackball.

A touchpad is horrid IMHO. I always have my attention on using
it when I am using one.

Yes touchpads are not intuitive. Nor are trackballs. I think the problem
with a lot of alternatives to the conventional mouse is that although they
are excellent for making small precision movements, they require lots of
repeated movements (move finger to edge, lift it off and reposition it at
the other side, repeat ad nauseam) if you want to move the pointer over a
larger distance. You can just move the mouse the whole distance in one go as
long as you have a large enough mouse mat or desk. Only when you've got the
pointer where you want it do you need to move the whole mouse back to a
comfortable position again.

I use a ball mouse. Optical mouses have a failure mode where the mouse
pointer gets reset. (I do not know why this happens, but it happened
enough to me that I decided enough with the optical mouses.) If a ball
mouse gives trouble, it does not move the pointer. This is IME, usual
disclaimers, you know the drill. The price is having to occasionally
clean the inside of the mouse.

I've not had this problem with optical mice. All the ones I've had have
worked fine. The only problem that I had with one was an intermittent
connection problem with the cable, on a portable mouse for my laptop. Ball
mice need a good mouse mat which has a sufficiently sticky underside that
the mat doesn't skate around on the desk. I've also had problems with the
ball becoming shiny after a year or so, and it is very difficult even with
washing and rubbing to get it slightly tacky again as it was when it was
new.

The various optical mice that have been supplied with my Dell PCs have given
me many years' flawless service. The only thing I needed to do was to open
each one up, find the spring that keeps the wheel in tension and bend it
slightly to weaken the spring a bit so the wheel does make such a loud
clicking noise as it rotates and so it rotates a bit more easily.

I've tried the vertical type of mouse where you grip a pillar with your
index finger uppermost and your little finger near the desk, but I found
that it was painful on the muscles in my forearm - yes, I know they are
supposed to *reduce* not *exacerbate* this

Mice are a very personal thing: there is no one-size-fits-all. My fiancée
thinks that touchpads are excellent (and that I'm an idiot for not agreeing
with her!) and finds any sort of mouse difficult and a strain on her arm.
Mind you she uses her touchpad two-handed: the index finger of her right
hand to move the pointer and the index and second fingers of her left hand
to operate the buttons. She is even considering getting a touchpad for her
desktop PC. She also likes the mode where the distance that the pointer
moves depends on the speed that you move the mouse, which I can't get used
to: I prefer the same mouse-to-pointer scale all the time. And she likes the
"tapping" feature of touchpads (I turned this *off* immediately on my
laptop) whereby if you press your finger onto the touchpad it simulates a
left-click. I find that as I'm making the repeated "move finger to edge,
lift it off and reposition it at the other side, repeat ad nauseam" to move
the pointer a large distance, I invariably end up pressing my finger onto
the touchpad just hard enough to produce a left-click at some point in the
process!

From my experience (I provide computer support to lots of people in their
homes) the majority of people who have a laptop say that they can just about
use the touchpad, but they much prefer a mouse.

 

[James Silverton]

[snip]

And I'm with your friend entirely. A touchpad is even worse than a
trackball.

A touchpad is horrid IMHO. I always have my attention on using
it when I am using one.

I use a ball mouse. Optical mouses have a failure mode where the
mouse pointer gets reset. (I do not know why this happens, but it
happened enough to me that I decided enough with the optical mouses.)
If a ball mouse gives trouble, it does not move the pointer. This is
IME, usual disclaimers, you know the drill. The price is having to
occasionally clean the inside of the mouse.

I didn't know that ball mouses were still common. The little mouse with
a retractable cord that I have had for two years is optical.

 

[Gene Wirchenko]

On 9/27/2012 7:12 PM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
[snip]

I use a ball mouse. Optical mouses have a failure mode where the
mouse pointer gets reset. (I do not know why this happens, but it
happened enough to me that I decided enough with the optical mouses.)
If a ball mouse gives trouble, it does not move the pointer. This is
IME, usual disclaimers, you know the drill. The price is having to
occasionally clean the inside of the mouse.

I didn't know that ball mouses were still common. The little mouse with
a retractable cord that I have had for two years is optical.

I do not think that they are. I had one in my junk box. It was
getting so bad with the optical mouse that I had to switch.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko