The latest laptops don't even come with DVD slots

C

Char Jackson

While it's not related to the two particular problem instances
I mentioned, try a search term like "BootBusExtender USB", which
provides a way to fix this for Windows. USB can be added to
the boot bus options, such that USB is up and running, before
other parts of the OS are loaded. Something like that. That's how
you get older Windows to run from USB storage drives. It's an
example of moving USB commissioning forward enough, so it doesn't
cause the boot media to disappear part way through the boot.
If I read that correctly, there are at least 3 issues all tangled up
in there, none of which are likely to be encountered in the context of
this thread. You've described bringing up the USB subsystem sooner,
keeping it up reliably, and relating all of it to older versions of
Windows. When new laptops are introduced that no longer have an
internal optical drive, it won't be a mainstream action to install
older versions of Windows on that hardware. In addition, if USB is the
primary means of I/O, it's safe to say that it will receive more
attention than it may have received in years past. Bottom line, I'm
not seeing a cause for concern at this time.
 
C

choro

I don't think it would have occurred to me to transfer files to a
friend via CD or DVD. I'm more likely to put the files online and let
the other person retrieve them at their convenience.
What if you are going to see that person later that day? And what if the
files were a few hundred JPG files that filled more than one DVD? Would
you still email the images to your friend? Recently I burnt over 2,000
images onto 3 DVDs for a friend who is, shall we say, not very savvy
with computers. And these were quite large DSLR pics. No, not RAW images
but still around 7MB each. I still say that CDs and DVDs of the
non-rewritable type are still safer to keep than on a flash stick. And
have you tried putting oveer 2,000 7 to 8 MB pics online recently? ;-)
 
B

BillW50

I still don't understand Paul's examples, above, of two CD's that only
boot from an internal drive. I don't think the CD has any say in the
matter, so I hope he'll revisit this thread and explain what he means.
My Alienware M9700 machines can only install XP from the internal DVD
drive. This is from the Alienware OEM XP CD. It works at first from USB
until the install reboots and then it can't find the CD in the USB
drive. The internal optical drive it continues on without problems.
 
C

Char Jackson

What if you are going to see that person later that day? And what if the
files were a few hundred JPG files that filled more than one DVD? Would
you still email the images to your friend? Recently I burnt over 2,000
images onto 3 DVDs for a friend who is, shall we say, not very savvy
with computers. And these were quite large DSLR pics. No, not RAW images
but still around 7MB each. I still say that CDs and DVDs of the
non-rewritable type are still safer to keep than on a flash stick. And
have you tried putting oveer 2,000 7 to 8 MB pics online recently? ;-)
Once you're dealing with more than a couple of files, or even one
large file, email becomes completely inappropriate. Instead, upload
the files somewhere like Dropbox and just send the link.

About 18 months ago I got back from an 11-day vacation with over 6600
digital photos and wanted to share them with my extended family. I
uploaded them to a photo hosting site and sent the link to everyone
via email. At their leisure, they browsed the photos and downloaded
the ones they liked. It would have been a killer to try to email the
photos directly (using multiple emails!) or burning them to optical
media and mailing the results. The upload took awhile, but I didn't
have to babysit it, so it didn't matter.
 
W

Wolf K

My Alienware M9700 machines can only install XP from the internal DVD
drive. This is from the Alienware OEM XP CD. It works at first from USB
until the install reboots and then it can't find the CD in the USB
drive. The internal optical drive it continues on without problems.
I suspect the reboot code uses a path to the files needed, and that path
includes the CD drive letter instead of a variable. I see no technical
reason for not using a drive letter variable, but maybe a better
informed person can explain further.
 
B

BillW50

In Wolf K typed:
I suspect the reboot code uses a path to the files needed, and that
path includes the CD drive letter instead of a variable. I see no
technical reason for not using a drive letter variable, but maybe a
better informed person can explain further.
Well those Alienware M9700 laptops have two hard drive bays. So there is
no telling what the internal optical drive letter will be anyway. And I
disabled the internal one through the BIOS so the USB optical would end
up as drive D anyway. And it still couldn't find the USB after the first
reboot. Yet it had no problems booting from the USB drive to begin with.
The problem occurs when it boots from the hard drive for the first time
and needs more files from the USB optical drive and can't find USB
drives, just internal ones.

The internal drive was bad at the time and I was going to replace it
anyway. But I decided that I would replace the internal drive after I
get Windows installed. Since that wouldn't work, I had to replace the
internal optical drive first. :-(
 
D

Dave Cohen

On 21/08/2012 4:12 PM, (e-mail address removed) wrote:
[...]
And USB sticks are coming down in price, on sale you can find them at 75
cents/GB or less. I just bought a 32GB drive for $25 plus tax. Enough
for a complete OS, the most used apps, and about 20GB of storage. Which
means you can borrow someone else's laptop, and run your own stuff
without affecting his/her installation. ;-)
$15.75 for my 32GB from Meritline, free shipping. Note: Price was a
special offer, but they make frequent offers.
 
J

James Silverton

In Wolf K typed:

Well those Alienware M9700 laptops have two hard drive bays. So there is
no telling what the internal optical drive letter will be anyway. And I
disabled the internal one through the BIOS so the USB optical would end
up as drive D anyway. And it still couldn't find the USB after the first
reboot. Yet it had no problems booting from the USB drive to begin with.
The problem occurs when it boots from the hard drive for the first time
and needs more files from the USB optical drive and can't find USB
drives, just internal ones.

The internal drive was bad at the time and I was going to replace it
anyway. But I decided that I would replace the internal drive after I
get Windows installed. Since that wouldn't work, I had to replace the
internal optical drive first. :-(
I've got external USB optical and 3.5 inch floppy drives for emergency
use . They were not expensive at Micro Center.
 
B

BillW50

I've got external USB optical and 3.5 inch floppy drives for emergency
use . They were not expensive at Micro Center.
I do too. But they won't work in all cases. At least not for XP anyway.
I never found a case were Windows 7 wouldn't install from an USB optical
drive yet. But that doesn't mean that nobody will.
 
G

Gene Wirchenko

[snip]
I don't think it would have occurred to me to transfer files to a
friend via CD or DVD. I'm more likely to put the files online and let
the other person retrieve them at their convenience.
CD/DVD for data transfer is just a modern update of "Never
underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling
down the highway." -- Tanenbaum, Andrew S. (1996). Computer Networks.
New Jersey: Prentice-Hall. p. 83. ISBN 0-13-349945-6.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sneakernet for more examples.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
 
J

James Silverton

I do too. But they won't work in all cases. At least not for XP anyway.
I never found a case were Windows 7 wouldn't install from an USB optical
drive yet. But that doesn't mean that nobody will.
My small lap-top does not have a built-in CD drive but runs XP without
problems. I suppose I might consider using W7 but I think that unlikely.

My workaday machine does not have any floppy drives and that's why I
have the floppy reader. Are there such things as plugin-in USB 5 inch
floppy drives? I've still got my old desk top that I can get to run and
read 3.5 inch floppies but I will probably dispose of it soon. It does
have a ZIP-disc slot but I think I've gotten all the essential files.

For file transfer to others, I send them as e-mail attachments or use a
memory stick.
 
C

choro

Once you're dealing with more than a couple of files, or even one
large file, email becomes completely inappropriate. Instead, upload
the files somewhere like Dropbox and just send the link.

About 18 months ago I got back from an 11-day vacation with over 6600
digital photos and wanted to share them with my extended family. I
uploaded them to a photo hosting site and sent the link to everyone
via email. At their leisure, they browsed the photos and downloaded
the ones they liked. It would have been a killer to try to email the
photos directly (using multiple emails!) or burning them to optical
media and mailing the results. The upload took awhile, but I didn't
have to babysit it, so it didn't matter.

Wow! 6,600 photos?! You beat my friend who came back with some 2,000+
photos.

BTW, did you find the time to sit down for your meals?

I like photography myself but still... 6,600 photos...???!!!

But don't forget that there are people (still!) in this world who are
not computer literate...
 
B

BillW50

In James Silverton typed:
My small lap-top does not have a built-in CD drive but runs XP without
problems. I suppose I might consider using W7 but I think that
unlikely.
For retail version of Windows, only Windows 2000 SP4, XP SP2/3, and
later versions of Windows does install from an USB drive. I am still
confused about Windows ME and earlier if they work. DOS does work, at
least MS-DOS 7.x does anyway.

OEM versions are totally different. Some XP SP2 OEM versions won't
install from USB. You might find some XP SP0 and SP1 that actually work
from USB for all I know. Heck maybe some OEM versions of Windows 2000
too.
My workaday machine does not have any floppy drives and that's why I
have the floppy reader. Are there such things as plugin-in USB 5 inch
floppy drives? I've still got my old desk top that I can get to run
and read 3.5 inch floppies but I will probably dispose of it soon.
It does have a ZIP-disc slot but I think I've gotten all the
essential files.
Yes I still have machines with floppy drives. Although I use them like
once every 3 years I guess nowadays.
For file transfer to others, I send them as e-mail attachments or use
a memory stick.
Oh sneakernet (aka modern memory stick)! It is funny how old sneakernet
is and it is something that shows no signs of dying. ;-)
 
J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

Char Jackson said:
Once you're dealing with more than a couple of files, or even one
large file, email becomes completely inappropriate. Instead, upload
Agreed. (Especially via ADSL - people tend to forget what the A stands
for until they have big uploads to do!)
the files somewhere like Dropbox and just send the link.
That's OK, _if_ the material is something you trust Dropbox with. (And
I'm not just talking pron or similar. We all have different levels of
trust of such companies.) Certainly, if you're wanting to share the
material with more than one or two people, and not going to see them so
you can pass them a stick or disc, then uploading is better.
About 18 months ago I got back from an 11-day vacation with over 6600
(I share choro's "wow"! That's 600/day; assuming a 12-hour day, that's
50 an hour, or nearly 1 a minute, every minute, for the whole day.)
digital photos and wanted to share them with my extended family. I
uploaded them to a photo hosting site and sent the link to everyone
via email. At their leisure, they browsed the photos and downloaded
the ones they liked. It would have been a killer to try to email the
photos directly (using multiple emails!) or burning them to optical
media and mailing the results. The upload took awhile, but I didn't
have to babysit it, so it didn't matter.
Did you organise them in some way on Dropbox? Choro's contact wasn't
particularly literate.

Burning to disc doesn't have to be babysat either, really.
 
C

Char Jackson

Agreed. (Especially via ADSL - people tend to forget what the A stands
for until they have big uploads to do!)


That's OK, _if_ the material is something you trust Dropbox with. (And
I'm not just talking pron or similar. We all have different levels of
trust of such companies.) Certainly, if you're wanting to share the
material with more than one or two people, and not going to see them so
you can pass them a stick or disc, then uploading is better.
Dropbox was just an example of a popular service. There are lots of
alternatives. If you're concerned, create a password-protected archive
and then upload the archive. Send the download link and the password
in separate emails. ;-)
(I share choro's "wow"! That's 600/day; assuming a 12-hour day, that's
50 an hour, or nearly 1 a minute, every minute, for the whole day.)
Digital cameras are amazing, if you think about it and compare them to
what came before. With a film camera, you were likely limited to 12,
24, or 36 shots per roll of film, so every shot had to count. You'd
agonize over the framing, the lighting, and every other aspect of
composition to make every shot as perfect as it could be. Then, it
could be hours, days, weeks, or even longer until you'd get to see
what you captured. Digital cameras changed all of that.

I behaved the exact same way when I first got a digital camera, but a
friend who had spent 26 years as a military photographer opened my
eyes to a whole new approach. He estimates that he shot 10,000 rolls
of film during his tour to Vietnam back in the 1960s. His approach was
that he was first and foremost in an environment where he couldn't ask
soldiers to go back down the hill and charge again because he had been
busy framing the shot, so he quickly learned that taking the shot was
better than fiddling with the camera and missing the shot. Take enough
shots and you'll have some real gems, while the guy beside you who's
still messing with his camera will have missed it. With the military
supplying him with endless rolls of film and a team of others tasked
with developing everything, his task was relatively easy. Hence, the
reason for burning through 10,000 rolls of film in something like 18
months.

That friend was the one who taught me the same approach with digital
cameras, except now there isn't film to deal with. My 16GB memory card
holds about 8000 photos at max resolution, and the number goes through
the roof if I were to step it down, but the higher resolutions seem to
allow me to crop later without doing serious damage.

Speaking of post-processing, that has become quite easy these days, as
well. Let's say my collection of 6600 photos has 200 keepers, to use
round numbers. It's not much trouble to run those 200 through your
favorite software, (I like Photoshop), to adjust the framing, the
lighting, the colors, the sharpness, etc. If you want to do a little
more, you can take two photos that each have pros and cons, and make a
composite using the best of both. You can open someone's closed eyes,
close their mouth, turn their head, change the color of the clothes,
and almost anything else your imagination allows. At one point I got a
great shot of Old Faithful, the famous geyser in Yellowstone Park.
Immediately after, the guy standing next to us offered to take a shot
of us with the geyser in the background. Great, except at the moment
that he snapped it the geyser wasn't doing anything. So I used my
photo as the background and his photo as the foreground, creating a
beautiful shot of us in front of the active geyser. I don't feel like
it's cheating in any way; we were there, after all.
Did you organise them in some way on Dropbox? Choro's contact wasn't
particularly literate.
I didn't use Dropbox, I used a photo hosting site since that allowed
others to thumb through the photos online and only download what they
want.
Burning to disc doesn't have to be babysat either, really.
My burner only accepts one disc at a time, so it requires babysitting.
For as little as I use it, I can't justify getting a multi-disc
burner.
 
M

Metspitzer

Dropbox was just an example of a popular service. There are lots of
alternatives. If you're concerned, create a password-protected archive
and then upload the archive. Send the download link and the password
in separate emails. ;-)


Digital cameras are amazing, if you think about it and compare them to
what came before. With a film camera, you were likely limited to 12,
24, or 36 shots per roll of film, so every shot had to count. You'd
agonize over the framing, the lighting, and every other aspect of
composition to make every shot as perfect as it could be. Then, it
could be hours, days, weeks, or even longer until you'd get to see
what you captured. Digital cameras changed all of that.

I behaved the exact same way when I first got a digital camera, but a
friend who had spent 26 years as a military photographer opened my
eyes to a whole new approach. He estimates that he shot 10,000 rolls
of film during his tour to Vietnam back in the 1960s. His approach was
that he was first and foremost in an environment where he couldn't ask
soldiers to go back down the hill and charge again because he had been
busy framing the shot, so he quickly learned that taking the shot was
better than fiddling with the camera and missing the shot. Take enough
shots and you'll have some real gems, while the guy beside you who's
still messing with his camera will have missed it. With the military
supplying him with endless rolls of film and a team of others tasked
with developing everything, his task was relatively easy. Hence, the
reason for burning through 10,000 rolls of film in something like 18
months.

That friend was the one who taught me the same approach with digital
cameras, except now there isn't film to deal with. My 16GB memory card
holds about 8000 photos at max resolution, and the number goes through
the roof if I were to step it down, but the higher resolutions seem to
allow me to crop later without doing serious damage.

Speaking of post-processing, that has become quite easy these days, as
well. Let's say my collection of 6600 photos has 200 keepers, to use
round numbers. It's not much trouble to run those 200 through your
favorite software, (I like Photoshop), to adjust the framing, the
lighting, the colors, the sharpness, etc. If you want to do a little
more, you can take two photos that each have pros and cons, and make a
composite using the best of both. You can open someone's closed eyes,
close their mouth, turn their head, change the color of the clothes,
and almost anything else your imagination allows. At one point I got a
great shot of Old Faithful, the famous geyser in Yellowstone Park.
Immediately after, the guy standing next to us offered to take a shot
of us with the geyser in the background. Great, except at the moment
that he snapped it the geyser wasn't doing anything. So I used my
photo as the background and his photo as the foreground, creating a
beautiful shot of us in front of the active geyser. I don't feel like
it's cheating in any way; we were there, after all.


I didn't use Dropbox, I used a photo hosting site since that allowed
others to thumb through the photos online and only download what they
want.
I am told there are photo sites that will pick people out of the
pictures and rename the filenames. Have you ever tried to use
anything like that. Assigning names to photos is very tedious. If
something like that really worked, it would be great.
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

I am told there are photo sites that will pick people out of the
pictures and rename the filenames. Have you ever tried to use
anything like that. Assigning names to photos is very tedious. If
something like that really worked, it would be great.
There are cameras that will do that.

You have to register a face on a photo inside the camera.

From the PDF manual for the Panasonic DMC-ZS10:

<QUOTE>
Recording with the Face Recognition function
[Face Recog.]
Recording Mode:
¡½How the Face Recognition function works
During recording
(When [AF Mode] is (Face Detection))
¡E The camera recognizes a registered face and adjusts focus and
exposure.
¡E When registered faces that have set names are recognized, the
names are displayed (up to 3 people).
During playback
¡E The name and age are displayed (if information is registered).
¡E During recording, the names that have been set for the recognized
faces are displayed (up to 3
people).
¡E Only pictures of the selected registered people are played back
([Category Selection]).
¡½
</QUOTE>

This and other related information is on pages 72-74 of the manual.
 
C

Char Jackson

I am told there are photo sites that will pick people out of the
pictures and rename the filenames. Have you ever tried to use
anything like that. Assigning names to photos is very tedious. If
something like that really worked, it would be great.
I haven't tried anything like that, sorry. I'm curious, but so far not
curious enough to go do it.

I usually don't name individual photos. Instead, I create a
descriptive folder and toss photos in there that apply. For example,
from the trip I mentioned, I have a folder called Pacific Northwest -
2011, and in there I have folders called Yellowstone NP, Glacier NP,
and Yosemite NP, among others. I know what to expect in those folders
so my individual images don't need to be named, but my system may not
work for someone else.
 

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