OEM Windows

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

A system builder OEM is not tied to hardware because MS has no way to know
which hardware it will be.

OTOH a branded OEM (Dell, HP, Acer, etc), could be tied to the BIOS.

Transferring a system builder OEM to new hardware will work if there is
enough time between the two installations but you'll be breaching the terms
of the licence and it's illegal.

If the transition to the new hardware is gradual enough - i. e., you
change the hardware a bit at a time - it could be considered as (and the
Windows installation will see it as) an upgrade; whether that is illegal
in terms of the licence isn't definite one way or the other. Certainly,
if you put it on a second machine and then take it off the first, that's
against the terms of an OEM System Builder, but not a full retail.

 

[Wolf K]

In message <[email protected]>, VanguardLH <[email protected]>
writes:
[]

Forgot to mention that the prices that I exampled were for the
Professional version. I don't waste my time with the Home editions.

Out of interest, why do you say that - what is missing from the home
editions that would make them a waste of your time?

Start here, then click the various tabs for more information:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/products/compare

At least one piece of information is incorrect or misleading. Eg, my
wife's laptop came with Home Premium 64-bit, and has yet to object to an
XP-level program. In fact, our favourite image viewer (which also does
elementary processing) is orphanware last updated for W2000, and it runs
with nary a hiccup. I suppose the table refers to purpose-built
databases, POS/inventory/accounting suites, etc. But if I needed those,
I'd be running them on a server with thin clients on the work stations,
which is a whole different ball game.

A closer examination shows that Home Premium, Pro, and Ultimate include
utilities that have been available for quite while. So why bother with
W7 Pro or Ultimate? Basically, MS is charging you for features you can
get as freeware or cheapware.

FWIW, I do have W7-Pro on this machine, but only because I got a deal I
couldn't refuse: 1TB internal drive + W7 Pro (OEM) for $120 net. O'wise
I'd have gone with Home Premium. I haven't yet found I needed any of the
added features of Pro. I may find the network back-up useful if I ever
set up a "proper" home network. But W7's peer-to-peer networking works
just fine via the wi-fi, and we back up data on each machine to external
drives, so why bother?

FYI.
Wolf K.

 

[BillW50]

This may be a fine line (not a lawyer here), but the difference may be
you are purchasing a license to use a product, with stipulations, and
not the product itself. Sort of like leasing a new car as opposed to
buying it. If you don't like the stipulations, it's your choice as the
consumer to not buy the license.

Yes but you have to buy it first and open the package before you get to
read the EULA in the first place. And I haven't found anybody to take
back opened software yet. So you are damned if you do and damned if you
don't.

I suspect the average consumer, if not the vast majority, know about the
EULA. How many people ever read the EULA? Further, how many people do
you know that got a used computer from someone/somewhere, with no
original system CD's, restore partition, COA sticker, etc.?

Yes I know, that isn't right either. I even had to buy a upgrade version
of XP so I could run the Recovery Console, because my OEM discs didn't
have them back then. So that copy has never been installed anywhere. But
Microsoft still got the money for the license anyway.

 

[milt]

Can not or should not? I have done it so maybe you care to clarify.

Should not, would be the correct term. You CAN do it, however. Its a
grey area, to be sure!

 

[Anthony Buckland]

Now i check my box and it says OEM System Builder Pack
and on the label it says Win Home Prem 7 SP1 64bit English 1pk DSP OEI
611 DVD.

I am confused right now.
But i want to be clear once more. Its not a new computer and it did
not came with the computer.
I bought it off a store ...

I'd be concerned about the ethics of that store.

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <[email protected]>, BillW50 <[email protected]>
writes:
[]

Yes but you have to buy it first and open the package before you get to
read the EULA in the first place. And I haven't found anybody to take
back opened software yet. So you are damned if you do and damned if you
don't.

[]
This would fall foul of UK "unfair contract terms" legislation: any term
you are unaware of before the contract it concluded is void (beware:
IANAL). The usual example given is that of terms and conditions printed
on a car park or railway ticket.

Some years ago there was the fashion for the EULA to be printed in tiny
(often blue) print that _could_ be read through the shrink-wrap; I
assumed that _was_ to get round the unfair contract legislation.

Does the USA have a similar law?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

A true-born Englishman does not know any language. He does not speak English
too
well either but, at least, he is not proud of this. He is, however, immensely
proud of not knowing any foreign languages. (George Mikes, "How to be
Inimitable" [1960].)

 

[VanguardLH]

If the transition to the new hardware is gradual enough - i. e., you
change the hardware a bit at a time - it could be considered as (and the
Windows installation will see it as) an upgrade; whether that is illegal
in terms of the licence isn't definite one way or the other. Certainly,
if you put it on a second machine and then take it off the first, that's
against the terms of an OEM System Builder, but not a full retail.

The upgrade-until-you-have-a-new-computer scheme is an "out" to their
license. However, during the upgrades or after them all, you still only
have one host (the old one that became a new one) on which to use the
OEM license. You don't end up with 2 hosts consisting of all the old
hardware and another with all the new hardware and the same license used
on both hosts.

 

[Ken Blake]

Just a question regarding OEM Windows.
Right now i use a OEM but i was reading that OEM is bound to
particular hardware. That would mean that i can not install this OEM
on a new pc.
Is this true? If i knew that i would have bought the fullversion which
wasn't even that much more expensive.

Yes, it's true. That's the single biggest disadvantage of an OEM
version, and the reason I almost always recommend against them for
anyone.

 

[BillW50]

Yes but you have to buy it first and open the package before you get
to read the EULA in the first place. And I haven't found anybody to
take back opened software yet. So you are damned if you do and damned
if you don't.

[]
This would fall foul of UK "unfair contract terms" legislation: any term
you are unaware of before the contract it concluded is void (beware:
IANAL). The usual example given is that of terms and conditions printed
on a car park or railway ticket.

Some years ago there was the fashion for the EULA to be printed in tiny
(often blue) print that _could_ be read through the shrink-wrap; I
assumed that _was_ to get round the unfair contract legislation.

Does the USA have a similar law?[/QUOTE]

I don't think the US has any law like this at all. But AFAIK no
skinkwrap license has ever held up in court either.

I am puzzled how this has continued for so long. I guess because the
worst that could happen is that you pay for the software, can't use it
and you are stuck with it anyway. Hardly worth going to court over.

I had a plan for many years of blowing the lid off of this nonsense. And
that was to sell my own software with the normal shrinkwrapped EULA
statements with one added one.

And that would be by agreeing that they would send me there first male
child or some other such nonsense. I really wouldn't mean it of course,
but I think it would get a lot of play in the courts.

The outcome I would be looking for would be that this nonsense would end
and you can't agree to something that you didn't read first. ;-)

 

[Joerg Jaeger]

Ok, got it. Made the wrong choice.
But i wonder, was this always like that? Just wondering.
In any case, i have to buy a fullversion next time.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Ken Blake]

Should not, would be the correct term. You CAN do it, however. Its a
grey area, to be sure!

It is certainly *not* a gray area. It is against the licensing terms.
Can you do it and get away with it? Possibly. Undoubtedly some people
have done that.

Can you rob a bank and get away with it? Possibly. Undoubtedly some
people have done that. Does that mean the law against doing it is a
gray area?

Robbing a bank is certainly a bigger crime than violating the terms of
a Windows license, but that doesn't make one of them a gray area and
the other not.

 

[Joerg Jaeger]

hehe... yeah, it is more than i was remembering. It were $70 Dollars
more. Still, i would have paid the $70 more for the privilege to
install it anywhere.

 

[Joerg Jaeger]

Honestly, i did not see a benefit to buy a pro version.
Ok, XP mode maybe, but then again i don't have any software that needs
an xp mode.
In my case the home is good enough. But if you need it, why not.

In message <[email protected]>, VanguardLH <[email protected]>
writes:
[]
Forgot to mention that the prices that I exampled were for the
Professional version. I don't waste my time with the Home editions.

Out of interest, why do you say that - what is missing from the home
editions that would make them a waste of your time?

Start here, then click the various tabs for more information:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/products/compare

Yes, I could have found that for myself: I was curious which feature(s)
YOU considered it a waste of time not to have.

To save others the time, the above page lists the differences as:

o XP mode only available in Pro
o company networks easier and more secure in Pro
o backup to a network only available in Pro
o BitLocker encryption only available in Ult
o language-switching only available in Ult

 

[mechanic]

What i want to do is to eventually build a new pc discard the old
one (or load it with Linux) and install my OEM Win7 on the new
pc. I haven't tried it so far since i only have one pc.

If you want to swap machines using the one copy of Win7 OEM, it will
complain. You can phone the activation number and try to ague that
you had to swap motherboard and so on following an electrical spike,
good luck with that.

 

[mechanic]

I'd be concerned about the ethics of that store.

Why? OEMs are supposed to know what they're doing.

 

[BillW50]

Yes, it's true. That's the single biggest disadvantage of an OEM
version, and the reason I almost always recommend against them for
anyone.

I have six Gateway M465 laptops (the most of any one model, but some
others come close). They all have OEM XP Pro licenses. And I have done
for testing purposes and sometimes for recovery measures, taken one
drive and swapped it with another M465 machine.

While most people believe making backups of your software is important.
I go an extra step. As I believe having hardware backups are just as
important.

Say for example this laptop that I am on right now suddenly starts
smoking or something and powers off. And it refuses to power up or
anything. Well a software backup will do me zero good if it isn't the
hard drive or software related, now will it?

Now I can just throw this hard drive into another M465 machine and I am
back and running once again in seconds. No big deal and figure out what
went wrong with the other one later. Plus I have lots of parts to swap
so I could figure out what really failed later as well.

It even helps when something goes wrong with the software too. Say
something goofy happens and my video display starts to act up. Is it
software or hardware? Who knows for sure. But swapping hard drives
between two machines will tell me in a heart beat, now won't it?

Alias heard me say this publicly on the newsgroups before one time and
claimed he (I think of him as a he anyway) turned me into Microsoft.
Although I heard nothing about it from Microsoft. I am sure they know
who I am and all.

Since under the OEM license you are allowed to replace virtually
anything and it is still legal on the OEM machine. Microsoft has never
defined how far you can go except to say some part must remain. Although
while never legally clear, this could even mean one screw of the
original machine is the only thing that is left.

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: []

If the transition to the new hardware is gradual enough - i. e., you
change the hardware a bit at a time - it could be considered as (and the
Windows installation will see it as) an upgrade; whether that is illegal
in terms of the licence isn't definite one way or the other. Certainly,
if you put it on a second machine and then take it off the first, that's
against the terms of an OEM System Builder, but not a full retail.

The upgrade-until-you-have-a-new-computer scheme is an "out" to their
license. However, during the upgrades or after them all, you still only
have one host (the old one that became a new one) on which to use the
OEM license. You don't end up with 2 hosts consisting of all the old
hardware and another with all the new hardware and the same license used
on both hosts.

Oh, having two machines running one licence - _whatever_ sort the
licence is - is right out.

_Moving_ a licence from one machine to another - i. e. you _remove_ it
from the first, such that that now has no OS - is allowed for a full,
but not an OEM, licence. It will _work_ for an OEM licence, provided you
wait long enough (others are saying 120 days), but it's not what you're
supposed to do.

Gradually morphing the old machine into the new one (and, possibly,
putting all the old bits back together to make a working machine - as
long as it _doesn't_ have the Windows on it) is probably allowed with
just the OEM licence, but sounds like a lot of effort to me.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The first objective of any tyrant in Whitehall would be to make Parliament
utterly subservient to his will; and the next to overturn or diminish trial by
jury ..." Lord Devlin (http://www.holbornchambers.co.uk)

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Honestly, i did not see a benefit to buy a pro version.
Ok, XP mode maybe, but then again i don't have any software that needs
an xp mode.
In my case the home is good enough. But if you need it, why not.

I bought Win 7 Pro for this computer. My opinion after the fact is the
same as yours.

Mostly, I wanted to run XP mode, but it ends up that XP under VMware
works better with my particular situation (old Philips Pronto remote
controls).

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Well I have taken up their offer dozens of times and I never ever got my
money back. Not once in decades of computer use. So what is the deal with
that? I've lost thousands of dollars from this nonsense over the years. And I
see nobody protecting the consumer about this problem.

Not my experience.

I have gotten money back for software. It was a few years ago, so no
details are available to you - because they're not avaiable to me

 

[BillW50]

Not my experience.

I have gotten money back for software. It was a few years ago, so no
details are available to you - because they're not avaiable to me

Really? Wow that is wonderful. The first one that I didn't get my money
back was from IBM's OS/2. As on the newsgroups I was told you can get
your money back if it doesn't work on your machine. I bought it at a
popular software store. It didn't work well.

Tried to get my money back and the store said they don't accept opened
software for returns. Contacted IBM and IBM said it wasn't their
problem. They only guarantee it if you bought it directly through them.

Tons of other horror stories skipped...

The last one was from Paragon (I like Paragon generally and I have
bought a lot from them). But the latest one restores a XP machine that I
had a dualboot XP and Windows 7 on it once. Now it only has XP on it and
I removed all traces of Windows 7 that I know of. But it restores a
previously working XP system and sets it up to boot Windows 7 instead.

I asked for my money back and I bought it from Paragon directly. I
dunno, like a year later still no comment from Paragon.