No sound with WinXP Location 65535

[Bob H]

In message <[email protected]>, Bob H

Next I tried same audio cd with Winamp and played the first track, and
again there was a a sort of wave form as the track was being played,
but again no sound. The volume is up fairly high as well

Hmm. Do try everything else everyone else has suggested, but it does
begin to sound as if the hardware may be dead! I know you said there
were clicks when you plugged/unplugged; is there a slight hiss
otherwise? (Not from external powered speakers, from unpowered ones or
headphones.) If no hiss, suspect dead output stage ...

I forget whether this is a laptop or desktop, and whether you've had it
working and it has stopped, or it's never worked. If it has stopped,
more support for it maybe being something that has died. If a desktop
and it has never worked, does the case have a speaker/headphone socket
on the front and the back? If so try the other one; if still no luck,
see if there are supposed to be links on the motherboard that select
front or back (and if the link's not there at all ...).

If all else fails, buy replacement sound hardware: I haven't looked for
years, but internal soundcards used to be very cheap (nearly free if
second-hand) unless you wanted something very fancy. (Make sure you get
one that will fit whatever slots your motherboard has, though.) If it's
a laptop (though of course these can be used with a desktop too), you
can get a USB "soundcard" (also very cheap) that looks like a memory
stick, other than having sound out and microphone in sockets on the end
opposite the USB plug, for very little. Note though that the vast
majority of these do _not_ have line in (blue socket I think), only
line/headphone out (light green) and microphone in (pink), which is mono
and low-level: no good if you ever want to do sound capture from
something like a tape or record deck. (You _can_ get ones with line in,
but you have to work at it, and they cost more [sound cards for desktops
usually have line in anyway]. Or, get one of these external tape/record
decks that go to USB - or memory stick - anyway.) Not important if you
don't anticipate ever wanting to do that (or will buy such a deck).

I have already tried and read up on what others have said/suggested, and
the problem seems to be linked to thee conextant modem in that both that
and the sound device are located at Location 65535.

I used a pair of unpowered as well as powered speakers and the result
was the same in each case, no sound nor output when playing the same
audio cd in winamp.
The only noise there was, was when I was inserting the jack plug into
the relevant socket, it was a scratching sort of noise for a second or two.

It is a laptop on which the problem is, and I am supposed to get it
working for a friend who told me that there was no sound!

I don't know if sound worked before and at what stage it stopped
working.So now I suspect dead hardware.

I have been looking at the usb sound cards or whatever they are and see
that they can be quite cheap to buy.

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <[email protected]>, Bob H

I used a pair of unpowered as well as powered speakers and the result
was the same in each case, no sound nor output when playing the same
audio cd in winamp.
The only noise there was, was when I was inserting the jack plug into
the relevant socket, it was a scratching sort of noise for a second or
two.

It is a laptop on which the problem is, and I am supposed to get it
working for a friend who told me that there was no sound!

I don't know if sound worked before and at what stage it stopped
working.So now I suspect dead hardware.

I have been looking at the usb sound cards or whatever they are and see
that they can be quite cheap to buy.

Yes, like these: http://ebay.eu/14UXvC6 (though how they can claim to be
5.1 or 7.1 channel with just one stereo output ... at least a _few_ of
them are honest enough to use the word "virtual"). Actually, if going
for that sort, I'd go for this sort http://ebay.eu/14UXNZT - less likely
to wear out the USB plug (or, more important, socket). Ones with line in
seem to start with this one http://ebay.eu/14V03QF.

Set something fairly loud playing, and then jiggle the plug. Often it's
the connector that dies: if this is the case, you may get bursts of
sound. If that is the case, the repairability does depend on the model
and your skill and daring; much of the difficulty in getting into
laptops is getting started, i. e. finding how to get inside in the first
place; screws can be in odd places, such as behind the battery and/or
under the keyboard. If jiggling suggests it is the connector, it's
usually the solder joints rather than the actual connector. On some
laptops, the external sockets are on a separate small board, connected
to the motherboard by a plug and socket, which you should be able to
find on ebay and be able to replace without any soldering at all if
that's your preference; on others, of course, they're on the mobo
itself, and hard to solder (usually because it involves taking the mobo
out to get at the other side).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

As individuals, politicians are usually quite charming, so it is quite hard to
dislike them, but in most cases, it is worth making the effor.
- Mark Williams (UMRA), 2013-4-26

 

[Bob H]

In message <[email protected]>, Bob H


Yes, like these: http://ebay.eu/14UXvC6 (though how they can claim to be
5.1 or 7.1 channel with just one stereo output ... at least a _few_ of
them are honest enough to use the word "virtual"). Actually, if going
for that sort, I'd go for this sort http://ebay.eu/14UXNZT - less likely
to wear out the USB plug (or, more important, socket). Ones with line in
seem to start with this one http://ebay.eu/14V03QF.

Set something fairly loud playing, and then jiggle the plug. Often it's
the connector that dies: if this is the case, you may get bursts of
sound. If that is the case, the repairability does depend on the model
and your skill and daring; much of the difficulty in getting into
laptops is getting started, i. e. finding how to get inside in the first
place; screws can be in odd places, such as behind the battery and/or
under the keyboard. If jiggling suggests it is the connector, it's
usually the solder joints rather than the actual connector. On some
laptops, the external sockets are on a separate small board, connected
to the motherboard by a plug and socket, which you should be able to
find on ebay and be able to replace without any soldering at all if
that's your preference; on others, of course, they're on the mobo
itself, and hard to solder (usually because it involves taking the mobo
out to get at the other side).

Well for £1.19p for a USB soundcard adaptor, its not worth me going to
the trouble taking the thing apart to find out what the exact problem if
I could find it. It might be a 50/50 chance of either.

I have taken a few laptops apart and I am aware of where the screws
could be (hiding).

So that's what I have now done is to buy that particular one, the one
with the short lead attached, and will see how that goes.

What puzzles me most is the fact that windows tells me that the devices
are working properly, yet the sound device is clearly not or at least
something to do with it is not.

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

On 17/08/2013 15:43, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: []

Yes, like these: http://ebay.eu/14UXvC6 (though how they can claim to be
5.1 or 7.1 channel with just one stereo output ... at least a _few_ of
them are honest enough to use the word "virtual"). Actually, if going
for that sort, I'd go for this sort http://ebay.eu/14UXNZT - less likely
to wear out the USB plug (or, more important, socket). Ones with line in
seem to start with this one http://ebay.eu/14V03QF.

[]
Well for £1.19p for a USB soundcard adaptor, its not worth me going to
the trouble taking the thing apart to find out what the exact problem
if I could find it. It might be a 50/50 chance of either. []
So that's what I have now done is to buy that particular one, the one
with the short lead attached, and will see how that goes.

Good luck with it.

What puzzles me most is the fact that windows tells me that the devices
are working properly, yet the sound device is clearly not or at least
something to do with it is not.

Well, if it's just the socket having come unsoldered, or the amplifier
chip has died, Windows wouldn't AFAICS have any way of detecting that.
Unless it died in a way that meant it didn't acknowledge communication
from the processor. But the datacomms part of the chip and the D-to-A
driving the socket could well be separate (even separate chips though
probably not these days). It's like you don't know if your brake lights
are (not) working in a car.

 

[Paul]

Well for £1.19p for a USB soundcard adaptor, its not worth me going to
the trouble taking the thing apart to find out what the exact problem if
I could find it. It might be a 50/50 chance of either.

I have taken a few laptops apart and I am aware of where the screws
could be (hiding).

So that's what I have now done is to buy that particular one, the one
with the short lead attached, and will see how that goes.

What puzzles me most is the fact that windows tells me that the devices
are working properly, yet the sound device is clearly not or at least
something to do with it is not.

You could run a Linux LiveCD and play a sound there, and *prove*
the sound subsystem works.

Another option, on some of the pre-built computers, is they have
a diagnostic mode, for hardware test. Perhaps that has aa
audio test in it.

Or even, install the Windows 8.1 preview (good until January) on
an empty hard drive, and use that to test the hardware.

It should be possible to step around the screwed up driver
situation, using some other OS. A Linux LiveCD would be
the cleanest test option, as it leaves no residue behind.
(I'd have recommended Ubuntu as a LiveCD for this, but
their GUI interface sucks and makes it hard for new
users of the disc to figure it out. Like driving a car,
and finding the steering wheel is located in the back seat.)

With the Linux LiveCD running, you double-click the trash can
(if you can find it). That gives access to the Windows hard
drive. Navigate to where some sample audio files are located.
Click those and whatever Linux media player is present,
will play them.

Paul

 

[Bob H]

In message <[email protected]>, Bob H
[]
I used a pair of unpowered as well as powered speakers and the result
was the same in each case, no sound nor output when playing the same
audio cd in winamp.
The only noise there was, was when I was inserting the jack plug into
the relevant socket, it was a scratching sort of noise for a second or
two.

It is a laptop on which the problem is, and I am supposed to get it
working for a friend who told me that there was no sound!

I don't know if sound worked before and at what stage it stopped
working.So now I suspect dead hardware.

I have been looking at the usb sound cards or whatever they are and
see that they can be quite cheap to buy.

Yes, like these: http://ebay.eu/14UXvC6 (though how they can claim to be
5.1 or 7.1 channel with just one stereo output ... at least a _few_ of
them are honest enough to use the word "virtual"). Actually, if going
for that sort, I'd go for this sort http://ebay.eu/14UXNZT - less likely
to wear out the USB plug (or, more important, socket). Ones with line in
seem to start with this one http://ebay.eu/14V03QF.

Set something fairly loud playing, and then jiggle the plug. Often it's
the connector that dies: if this is the case, you may get bursts of
sound. If that is the case, the repairability does depend on the model
and your skill and daring; much of the difficulty in getting into
laptops is getting started, i. e. finding how to get inside in the first
place; screws can be in odd places, such as behind the battery and/or
under the keyboard. If jiggling suggests it is the connector, it's
usually the solder joints rather than the actual connector. On some
laptops, the external sockets are on a separate small board, connected
to the motherboard by a plug and socket, which you should be able to
find on ebay and be able to replace without any soldering at all if
that's your preference; on others, of course, they're on the mobo
itself, and hard to solder (usually because it involves taking the mobo
out to get at the other side).

Well for £1.19p for a USB soundcard adaptor, its not worth me going
to the trouble taking the thing apart to find out what the exact
problem if I could find it. It might be a 50/50 chance of either.

I have taken a few laptops apart and I am aware of where the screws
could be (hiding).

So that's what I have now done is to buy that particular one, the one
with the short lead attached, and will see how that goes.

What puzzles me most is the fact that windows tells me that the
devices are working properly, yet the sound device is clearly not or
at least something to do with it is not.

You could run a Linux LiveCD and play a sound there, and *prove*
the sound subsystem works.

Another option, on some of the pre-built computers, is they have
a diagnostic mode, for hardware test. Perhaps that has aa
audio test in it.

Or even, install the Windows 8.1 preview (good until January) on
an empty hard drive, and use that to test the hardware.

It should be possible to step around the screwed up driver
situation, using some other OS. A Linux LiveCD would be
the cleanest test option, as it leaves no residue behind.
(I'd have recommended Ubuntu as a LiveCD for this, but
their GUI interface sucks and makes it hard for new
users of the disc to figure it out. Like driving a car,
and finding the steering wheel is located in the back seat.)

With the Linux LiveCD running, you double-click the trash can
(if you can find it). That gives access to the Windows hard
drive. Navigate to where some sample audio files are located.
Click those and whatever Linux media player is present,
will play them.

Paul

I have tried 3/4 bootable CD's/DVD's and only 1 will actually boot up on
this sony viao laptop which was my win7 dvd.

I have tried bootable rescue cd's, a knoppix bootable cd, a ubuntu
bootable cd, and a win7 dvd.
Non but the win7 would actually boot up. I also ran win7 upgrade advisor
just to see what problems it might find, and basically they were only
driver updates.

 

[Bob H]

On 17/08/2013 15:43, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message <[email protected]>, Bob H
[]
I used a pair of unpowered as well as powered speakers and the result
was the same in each case, no sound nor output when playing the same
audio cd in winamp.
The only noise there was, was when I was inserting the jack plug into
the relevant socket, it was a scratching sort of noise for a second or
two.

It is a laptop on which the problem is, and I am supposed to get it
working for a friend who told me that there was no sound!

I don't know if sound worked before and at what stage it stopped
working.So now I suspect dead hardware.

I have been looking at the usb sound cards or whatever they are and
see that they can be quite cheap to buy.

Yes, like these: http://ebay.eu/14UXvC6 (though how they can claim
to be
5.1 or 7.1 channel with just one stereo output ... at least a _few_ of
them are honest enough to use the word "virtual"). Actually, if going
for that sort, I'd go for this sort http://ebay.eu/14UXNZT - less
likely
to wear out the USB plug (or, more important, socket). Ones with
line in
seem to start with this one http://ebay.eu/14V03QF.

Set something fairly loud playing, and then jiggle the plug. Often it's
the connector that dies: if this is the case, you may get bursts of
sound. If that is the case, the repairability does depend on the model
and your skill and daring; much of the difficulty in getting into
laptops is getting started, i. e. finding how to get inside in the
first
place; screws can be in odd places, such as behind the battery and/or
under the keyboard. If jiggling suggests it is the connector, it's
usually the solder joints rather than the actual connector. On some
laptops, the external sockets are on a separate small board, connected
to the motherboard by a plug and socket, which you should be able to
find on ebay and be able to replace without any soldering at all if
that's your preference; on others, of course, they're on the mobo
itself, and hard to solder (usually because it involves taking the mobo
out to get at the other side).

Well for £1.19p for a USB soundcard adaptor, its not worth me going
to the trouble taking the thing apart to find out what the exact
problem if I could find it. It might be a 50/50 chance of either.

I have taken a few laptops apart and I am aware of where the screws
could be (hiding).

So that's what I have now done is to buy that particular one, the one
with the short lead attached, and will see how that goes.

What puzzles me most is the fact that windows tells me that the
devices are working properly, yet the sound device is clearly not or
at least something to do with it is not.

You could run a Linux LiveCD and play a sound there, and *prove*
the sound subsystem works.

Another option, on some of the pre-built computers, is they have
a diagnostic mode, for hardware test. Perhaps that has aa
audio test in it.

Or even, install the Windows 8.1 preview (good until January) on
an empty hard drive, and use that to test the hardware.

It should be possible to step around the screwed up driver
situation, using some other OS. A Linux LiveCD would be
the cleanest test option, as it leaves no residue behind.
(I'd have recommended Ubuntu as a LiveCD for this, but
their GUI interface sucks and makes it hard for new
users of the disc to figure it out. Like driving a car,
and finding the steering wheel is located in the back seat.)

With the Linux LiveCD running, you double-click the trash can
(if you can find it). That gives access to the Windows hard
drive. Navigate to where some sample audio files are located.
Click those and whatever Linux media player is present,
will play them.

Paul

I have tried 3/4 bootable CD's/DVD's and only 1 will actually boot up on
this sony viao laptop which was my win7 dvd.

I have tried bootable rescue cd's, a knoppix bootable cd, a ubuntu
bootable cd, and a win7 dvd.
Non but the win7 would actually boot up. I also ran win7 upgrade advisor
just to see what problems it might find, and basically they were only
driver updates.

Inadvertly in an effolrt to get a bootable cd to boot I was pressing
every F key and when I pressed the F10 key I got the system restore
window up.
So I thought there's nothing to lose and every to gain. Anyway 30
minutes or so later,after all was done, still no sound!

So it can only be a hardware issue /problem

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

What puzzles me most is the fact that windows tells me that the devices
are working properly, yet the sound device is clearly not or at least
something to do with it is not.

No puzzle. Windows only knows that the software (drivers) returns no
error codes. Windows has no ears

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

I have already tried and read up on what others have said/suggested, and
the problem seems to be linked to thee conextant modem in that both that
and the sound device are located at Location 65535.

Perhaps the modem uses the sound card to generate the signals it sends
to the phone line or internet line. Like what used to be called a
"Windows modem".

 

[Bob H]

Perhaps the modem uses the sound card to generate the signals it sends
to the phone line or internet line. Like what used to be called a
"Windows modem".

Yes I remember them, and thankfully never had nor used one.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Yes I remember them, and thankfully never had nor used one.

Yes. I avoided them like the plague.

It might have been superstition on my part, but IIRC, there were good
reasons to avoid them.

But it's been a while, so maybe I don't recall correctly any more

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Not entirely. A "WinModem" was basically just a D-to-A and an A-to-D for
the 'phone line, but it usually _was_ separate from the sound card.
(There _were_ devices that used the same hardware for both, but they
weren't common.)

Yes. I avoided them like the plague.

It might have been superstition on my part, but IIRC, there were good
reasons to avoid them.

The main one was that, as they had little circuitry of their own to
generate and demodulate waveforms, they relied on the main processor;
this took processing time from whatever else was being done, and wasn't
too reliable with the limited-power processors of the time. With modern
powerful processors, they would likely work well no problem; however,
dialup itself is much in decline. (There was a time when it began to
look as if a built-in MoDem was going to be as common as a built-in IDE
controller; these were I suppose replaced by the ethernet port as a
default built-in.)

 

[Paul]

Not entirely. A "WinModem" was basically just a D-to-A and an A-to-D for
the 'phone line, but it usually _was_ separate from the sound card.
(There _were_ devices that used the same hardware for both, but they
weren't common.)

The main one was that, as they had little circuitry of their own to
generate and demodulate waveforms, they relied on the main processor;
this took processing time from whatever else was being done, and wasn't
too reliable with the limited-power processors of the time. With modern
powerful processors, they would likely work well no problem; however,
dialup itself is much in decline. (There was a time when it began to
look as if a built-in MoDem was going to be as common as a built-in IDE
controller; these were I suppose replaced by the ethernet port as a
default built-in.)

The Winmodem, needs a "couple hundred megahertz" worth of DSP
processing activity, to decode the dialup modem bits coming
in via the frequency domain from the modem setup.

You're right, in that hardware-wise, the dialup modem needs only
an A-to-D and a D-to-A, as well as a data access arrangement (DAA)
for safely connecting a low voltage PC, to a high voltage and
dangerous telephone network. When the Central Office puts a 180V
20Hz ringer signal on the line, you don't want that going into the
A-to-D. So the Data Access Arrangement, has a transformer, and
the circuits necessary to clamp transients before they get to the
A-to-D.

In the case of the OPs computer, as far as I know, the Conexant
chip sits on the same bus as the sound chip. Like this

Southbridge
| |
| +---------+
| |
HDAudio HDAudio
5.1 channel Conexant
Audio A-to-D and
D-to-A for
dialup DAA

On the Southbridge, there are high speed serial interfaces for
HDAudio. In one direction, the bus is multi-drop. In the
other direction, each HDAudio device has its own private pin.
The Southbridge may have enough pins for three devices (I'd
have to download a datasheet, to count them). In any case,
there should be room for at least two devices (system audio,
as well as HDAudio WinModem).

The devices are supposed to support enumeration and Plug and Play.
Which is why that 65535 thing should disappear when the driver
is installed, and a more natural "English phrase" in Device Manager,
should describe the Conexant chip.

If this was a hardware failure, the output channels should
fail independently. So if you had a stereo speaker setup,
maybe static electricity would blow out the Left or the
Right signal. But not both at once. If enough energy was
involved, to affect multiple outputs, it would also
tend to affect enumeration of the device. And you'd have
no sound chip listed at all. That's why, for me at least,
that makes it hard to believe it's a hardware failure.
Silicon hardly ever fails "in the middle of a chip". It
can fail at the edges, due to static electricity.

We already have a precedent, in the form of the ICH5 failures though,
where the bond wires burning on the power to the I/O pins
(the USB failure problem), and all the USB I/O dies at the
same time. But in that case, we have a good number of chips
with a big burn mark in the center of them. If this was a
design flaw in the OPs hardware, then we'd expect to find audio
chips dropping like flies. Just like, I've read maybe
25 threads about burned ICH5s. When it first started
happening, there was a fair cluster of reports all at
once. It's a good thing my ICH5 never blew, as I'd
be pissed (the motherboard it's on, wasn't cheap). Intel
never admitted a problem with that chip, but I suspect
something was going on behind the scenes.

(Static electricity can do this... eventually. The burn mark
is over top of the bond wires that power USB I/O pads. All
your USB I/O dies at the connector, but Device Manager looks
perfect!)

http://i.onfinite.com/TFG42bkgd.jpg

Paul

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: []

Not entirely. A "WinModem" was basically just a D-to-A and an A-to-D
for the 'phone line, but it usually _was_ separate from the sound
card. (There _were_ devices that used the same hardware for both, but
they weren't common.) []
The main one was that, as they had little circuitry of their own to
generate and demodulate waveforms, they relied on the main processor;
this took processing time from whatever else was being done, and
wasn't too reliable with the limited-power processors of the time.

[]
The Winmodem, needs a "couple hundred megahertz" worth of DSP
processing activity, to decode the dialup modem bits coming
in via the frequency domain from the modem setup.

You're right, in that hardware-wise, the dialup modem needs only
an A-to-D and a D-to-A, as well as a data access arrangement (DAA)
for safely connecting a low voltage PC, to a high voltage and
dangerous telephone network. When the Central Office puts a 180V
20Hz ringer signal on the line, you don't want that going into the
A-to-D. So the Data Access Arrangement, has a transformer, and
the circuits necessary to clamp transients before they get to the
A-to-D.

True, there's all the protection stuff. When I was writing the above, I
also wondered about mentioning the relay that is necessary to implement
pulse dialling, but didn't as I wasn't sure all WinModems implemented
pulse dialling.
[]

If this was a hardware failure, the output channels should
fail independently. So if you had a stereo speaker setup,
maybe static electricity would blow out the Left or the
Right signal. But not both at once. If enough energy was

That thought did also occur to me. I wasn't (am) not sufficiently
familiar with the architecture of that area to know whether there's a
separate amplifier chip (or two), or whether it's part of the same piece
of silicon as does the digital stuff; though even if it is, I could
envisage the possibility of just the analogue part being dead. (Wouldn't
_have_ to be static: could be overload, due to too much heavy rock being
played, especially if into a short. I _think_ _sometimes_ there's a
series resistor in series with the output socket [but possibly not the
internal speakers?] to protect the output device, but if the switching
in the socket is faulty, that could be bypassed.) Such a cause could
take out, for example, the supply wire (even - probably especially -
inside the silicon) to both amplifier sections.

involved, to affect multiple outputs, it would also
tend to affect enumeration of the device. And you'd have
no sound chip listed at all. That's why, for me at least,
that makes it hard to believe it's a hardware failure.
Silicon hardly ever fails "in the middle of a chip". It
can fail at the edges, due to static electricity.

I _tend_ to agree: a driver failure/problem seems most likely,
especially with them both appearing on the same address (I admit I'm not
following that aspect too closely, though the number being 65535 - FF -
does sound suspicious). When someone suggested trying a boot disc from
another OS, I thought that was a good idea; however, Andy has tried
several with little success, so I think it's a matter of how much time
he's willing to spend on fixing this laptop for a friend. Of course the
external "sound card" will require speakers, thus making the whole thing
less portable.

I think it's likely to be either a driver/setup problem, or a faulty
(or, more likely, just disconnected) socket. (Though that'd normally
just affect one channel - initially, though could get to both in time.)
I don't think he's said categorically that there isn't a continuous
faint hiss when headphones are used; that would be interesting to know.

It'd also be useful - I _think_ - to know whether the MoDem "works", i.
e. whether if you plug it into a 'phoneline and tell it to dial, you
hear anything on a 'phone on the same line - or hear the relay doing
clunka-clunka-clunka if you tell it to pulse dial. However, I'm not sure
what it would tell us if it does work - probably at least that the
Southbridge onward communication is OK (but I don't know what else is on
there - probably other parts of the PC wouldn't be working if it
wasn't), and if it doesn't it could just be part of the same driver
setup problem.

We already have a precedent, in the form of the ICH5 failures though,
where the bond wires burning on the power to the I/O pins
(the USB failure problem), and all the USB I/O dies at the
same time. But in that case, we have a good number of chips
with a big burn mark in the center of them. If this was a
design flaw in the OPs hardware, then we'd expect to find audio
chips dropping like flies. Just like, I've read maybe

Well, not if some previous owner/user has shorted the outputs ...
[]

(Static electricity can do this... eventually. The burn mark
is over top of the bond wires that power USB I/O pads. All
your USB I/O dies at the connector, but Device Manager looks
perfect!)

And a dud audio output stage would still make the "sound card" appear OK
in DM. But I agree this is less likely - though certainly possible! -
than a driver/setup problem, or a socket solder break.

 

[Paul]

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: []

Not entirely. A "WinModem" was basically just a D-to-A and an A-to-D
for the 'phone line, but it usually _was_ separate from the sound
card. (There _were_ devices that used the same hardware for both,
but they weren't common.) []
The main one was that, as they had little circuitry of their own to
generate and demodulate waveforms, they relied on the main processor;
this took processing time from whatever else was being done, and
wasn't too reliable with the limited-power processors of the time.

[]
The Winmodem, needs a "couple hundred megahertz" worth of DSP
processing activity, to decode the dialup modem bits coming
in via the frequency domain from the modem setup.

You're right, in that hardware-wise, the dialup modem needs only
an A-to-D and a D-to-A, as well as a data access arrangement (DAA)
for safely connecting a low voltage PC, to a high voltage and
dangerous telephone network. When the Central Office puts a 180V
20Hz ringer signal on the line, you don't want that going into the
A-to-D. So the Data Access Arrangement, has a transformer, and
the circuits necessary to clamp transients before they get to the
A-to-D.

True, there's all the protection stuff. When I was writing the above, I
also wondered about mentioning the relay that is necessary to implement
pulse dialling, but didn't as I wasn't sure all WinModems implemented
pulse dialling.
[]

If this was a hardware failure, the output channels should
fail independently. So if you had a stereo speaker setup,
maybe static electricity would blow out the Left or the
Right signal. But not both at once. If enough energy was

That thought did also occur to me. I wasn't (am) not sufficiently
familiar with the architecture of that area to know whether there's a
separate amplifier chip (or two), or whether it's part of the same piece
of silicon as does the digital stuff; though even if it is, I could
envisage the possibility of just the analogue part being dead. (Wouldn't
_have_ to be static: could be overload, due to too much heavy rock being
played, especially if into a short. I _think_ _sometimes_ there's a
series resistor in series with the output socket [but possibly not the
internal speakers?] to protect the output device, but if the switching
in the socket is faulty, that could be bypassed.) Such a cause could
take out, for example, the supply wire (even - probably especially -
inside the silicon) to both amplifier sections.

involved, to affect multiple outputs, it would also
tend to affect enumeration of the device. And you'd have
no sound chip listed at all. That's why, for me at least,
that makes it hard to believe it's a hardware failure.
Silicon hardly ever fails "in the middle of a chip". It
can fail at the edges, due to static electricity.

I _tend_ to agree: a driver failure/problem seems most likely,
especially with them both appearing on the same address (I admit I'm not
following that aspect too closely, though the number being 65535 - FF -
does sound suspicious). When someone suggested trying a boot disc from
another OS, I thought that was a good idea; however, Andy has tried
several with little success, so I think it's a matter of how much time
he's willing to spend on fixing this laptop for a friend. Of course the
external "sound card" will require speakers, thus making the whole thing
less portable.

I think it's likely to be either a driver/setup problem, or a faulty
(or, more likely, just disconnected) socket. (Though that'd normally
just affect one channel - initially, though could get to both in time.)
I don't think he's said categorically that there isn't a continuous
faint hiss when headphones are used; that would be interesting to know.

It'd also be useful - I _think_ - to know whether the MoDem "works", i.
e. whether if you plug it into a 'phoneline and tell it to dial, you
hear anything on a 'phone on the same line - or hear the relay doing
clunka-clunka-clunka if you tell it to pulse dial. However, I'm not sure
what it would tell us if it does work - probably at least that the
Southbridge onward communication is OK (but I don't know what else is on
there - probably other parts of the PC wouldn't be working if it
wasn't), and if it doesn't it could just be part of the same driver
setup problem.

We already have a precedent, in the form of the ICH5 failures though,
where the bond wires burning on the power to the I/O pins
(the USB failure problem), and all the USB I/O dies at the
same time. But in that case, we have a good number of chips
with a big burn mark in the center of them. If this was a
design flaw in the OPs hardware, then we'd expect to find audio
chips dropping like flies. Just like, I've read maybe

Well, not if some previous owner/user has shorted the outputs ...
[]

(Static electricity can do this... eventually. The burn mark
is over top of the bond wires that power USB I/O pads. All
your USB I/O dies at the connector, but Device Manager looks
perfect!)

And a dud audio output stage would still make the "sound card" appear OK
in DM. But I agree this is less likely - though certainly possible! -
than a driver/setup problem, or a socket solder break.

I just had a thought.

I wonder if the modem is on a removable assembly ?
Such that, you could pull it, then retest the audoo ?

Or alternately, I wonder if the BIOS has a "disable" for the
modem. Now, being a pre-built machine, I suppose the BIOS would
be dumbed down. I mean, my laptop has a grand total of *one*
setting in it, changing the hard drive bay from IDE to AHCI.
You can't get much dumber than that, for a BIOS. My desktops
have a metric ton of settings by comparison (home built machines).
I can disable my HDAudio on this machine, if I want to.

A third possibility, is going into Device Manager, and setting
the modem HDAudio device to "Disable". But based on this
mess not working in the first place, I somehow doubt
that'll do anything. It would be "for the sake of
completeness" kind of test.

Some of my earlier motherboards (AC97), the output impedance is
quoted as a relatively high number. With the HDAudio generation,
that changed. The output impedance is listed as 1 ohm, so "quite
brittle". Now, being CMOS, we know it can't possibly do that
in a large signal situation (trying to drive ~1V RMS). The HDAudio
CODEC is not a "power amp". (It doesn't have a heatsink on it.)
They must rely on some other limitations in the path, for the
corner cases.

Paul

 

[Bob H]

On 18/08/2013 13:06, Paul wrote:>

I just had a thought.

I wonder if the modem is on a removable assembly ?
Such that, you could pull it, then retest the audoo ?

Or alternately, I wonder if the BIOS has a "disable" for the
modem. Now, being a pre-built machine, I suppose the BIOS would
be dumbed down. I mean, my laptop has a grand total of *one*
setting in it, changing the hard drive bay from IDE to AHCI.
You can't get much dumber than that, for a BIOS. My desktops
have a metric ton of settings by comparison (home built machines).
I can disable my HDAudio on this machine, if I want to.

A third possibility, is going into Device Manager, and setting
the modem HDAudio device to "Disable". But based on this
mess not working in the first place, I somehow doubt
that'll do anything. It would be "for the sake of
completeness" kind of test.

Some of my earlier motherboards (AC97), the output impedance is
quoted as a relatively high number. With the HDAudio generation,
that changed. The output impedance is listed as 1 ohm, so "quite
brittle". Now, being CMOS, we know it can't possibly do that
in a large signal situation (trying to drive ~1V RMS). The HDAudio
CODEC is not a "power amp". (It doesn't have a heatsink on it.)
They must rely on some other limitations in the path, for the
corner cases.

Paul

I booted into the BIOS of the laptop and it was dumbed down with very
little options on what can be changed. Of course the modem was not even
listed!

I then booted into windows XP and disabled the modem, rebooted again and
tried for sound....no there wasn't. So disabling the modem didn't make
any difference

I don't really want to take it apart as I am not really sure what I will
be looking for when it is disassembled.

The machine in question is a sony viao vgn-fs285b

Thanks

 

[Paul]

On 18/08/2013 13:06, Paul wrote:>

I booted into the BIOS of the laptop and it was dumbed down with very
little options on what can be changed. Of course the modem was not even
listed!

I then booted into windows XP and disabled the modem, rebooted again and
tried for sound....no there wasn't. So disabling the modem didn't make
any difference

I don't really want to take it apart as I am not really sure what I will
be looking for when it is disassembled.

The machine in question is a sony viao vgn-fs285b

Thanks

There's one on Ebay Sub-assembly claims to be a modem
There is only one I/O cable visible.

P/N : RD02-D110
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Sony-VGN-FS-Series-Laptop-Modem-T60M85-04-LF-141753912-/120710668823

So that shows what Sony used on another laptop.

The "business end" of the cable, may be a compression fit
under an elastomer connector.

I don't think I've seen one like that before. It's pretty small,
and it's unclear how the signals get to the RJ-11. You'd think
the RJ-11 would be part of the tiny circuit board.

Paul

 

[Bob H]

There's one on Ebay Sub-assembly claims to be a modem
There is only one I/O cable visible.

P/N : RD02-D110
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Sony-VGN-FS-Series-Laptop-Modem-T60M85-04-LF-141753912-/120710668823


So that shows what Sony used on another laptop.

The "business end" of the cable, may be a compression fit
under an elastomer connector.

I don't think I've seen one like that before. It's pretty small,
and it's unclear how the signals get to the RJ-11. You'd think
the RJ-11 would be part of the tiny circuit board.

Paul

The thing is, am I wanting a modem board or a soundcard board for this
laptop. If it comes to it then I think I'd rather go for a soundcard
board or whatever it may be.

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Bob H wrote: []

I booted into the BIOS of the laptop and it was dumbed down with
very little options on what can be changed. Of course the modem was
not even listed!
I then booted into windows XP and disabled the modem, rebooted again
and tried for sound....no there wasn't. So disabling the modem didn't
make any difference

Would be interesting - though more a "for completeness" than anything
else, I fear - to know if the MoDem actually works (at least makes
dialling sounds). [Obviously, after being re-enabled!]

Well, I'd say hairline cracks in the solder on the speaker/headphone
socket would be a good candidate, if it's hardware at all. (Is there any
hiss - or even a click at startup/shutdown - from the internal speakers?
Probably difficult to tell with all the other noises [fans etc.] in the
box.)

Hmm. Looking at http://ebay.eu/1bJd55P, it looks like the green and pink
sockets are actually mounted directly on the motherboard.

There's one on Ebay Sub-assembly claims to be a modem
There is only one I/O cable visible.

P/N : RD02-D110
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Sony-VGN-FS-Series-Laptop-Modem-T60M85-04-LF-1417
53912-/120710668823

So that shows what Sony used on another laptop.

The "business end" of the cable, may be a compression fit
under an elastomer connector.

One of those tongue-like things (common for laptop keyboards)?

I don't think I've seen one like that before. It's pretty small,
and it's unclear how the signals get to the RJ-11. You'd think
the RJ-11 would be part of the tiny circuit board.

Yes, you'd have thought so! If you look at the link I give above (click
on the picture, then again to zoom in), I _think_ the RJ11 is on the
mobo (at the back of the picture), but it's hard to see clearly.

 

[Bob H]

Bob H wrote: []

I booted into the BIOS of the laptop and it was dumbed down with
very little options on what can be changed. Of course the modem was
not even listed!
I then booted into windows XP and disabled the modem, rebooted again
and tried for sound....no there wasn't. So disabling the modem
didn't make any difference

Would be interesting - though more a "for completeness" than anything
else, I fear - to know if the MoDem actually works (at least makes
dialling sounds). [Obviously, after being re-enabled!]

Well, I'd say hairline cracks in the solder on the speaker/headphone
socket would be a good candidate, if it's hardware at all. (Is there any
hiss - or even a click at startup/shutdown - from the internal speakers?
Probably difficult to tell with all the other noises [fans etc.] in the
box.)

Hmm. Looking at http://ebay.eu/1bJd55P, it looks like the green and pink
sockets are actually mounted directly on the motherboard.

There's one on Ebay Sub-assembly claims to be a modem
There is only one I/O cable visible.

P/N : RD02-D110
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Sony-VGN-FS-Series-Laptop-Modem-T60M85-04-LF-1417
53912-/120710668823

So that shows what Sony used on another laptop.

The "business end" of the cable, may be a compression fit
under an elastomer connector.

One of those tongue-like things (common for laptop keyboards)?

I don't think I've seen one like that before. It's pretty small,
and it's unclear how the signals get to the RJ-11. You'd think
the RJ-11 would be part of the tiny circuit board.

Yes, you'd have thought so! If you look at the link I give above (click
on the picture, then again to zoom in), I _think_ the RJ11 is on the
mobo (at the back of the picture), but it's hard to see clearly.

Paul

I connected a RJ11 telephone cable to the laptop and have just tried
dialing a fax no. with or by telnet, if that is right, as its years
since I did that sort of thing.
Anyway, telnet said it was dialing, although I could not hear anything
as I would normally expect to, then after a few seconds it stopped
saying no dialtone, so I don't know if it was actually diialing or not.