Need help finding a specific support article on basic fundamentals

[Gene E. Bloch]

I did won a Sinclair Z-80 computer

That should be "I did *own* a Sinclair Z-80 computer".

If I did *win* it, it was only by paying for it

 

[Ken Springer]

http://allcomputers.us/windows_7/advanced-file-management---relocating-personal-data-folders.aspx

I use Firefox with the Web of Trust add-on. That site gets flagged as
as having poor reputation in all categories. However, it was flagged by
only one person.

The person that flagged it said the text on allcomputers was a direct
copy from "Visual Studio 201 all in one for dummies". Yep. Looks like
a typo there, doesn't it?

More research, I went looking for an ebook on a generic used book site
that searches various bookstores. But I corrected what looks like a
typo to 2010. No ebook listed. Did the same using Google Encrypted and
a couple other sites.

books.google.com says no ebook available.

But one search link from Google was for a site wehaslinks.com. At the
bottom of the page is a link to download the file, but that website
apparently no longer exists. I get the infamous "server not found" type
of message from Firefox. Even when I just used the basic URL of
www.xxxxxxxxxxx.com.

Next searched specifically for ebooks, found a site that offered a
torrent download of a book. But WOT flagged this site, and there were
about a dozen comments, and all but the latest comment (from last month)
called it a phishing site.

Went to the search page again, clicked on same link. Eventually got to
a different torrent site, using identical steps. Also flagged by WOT.

Want to know what the search phrase is for both torrent sites?
"Visual+studio+201+all+in+one+for+dummies"

I don't have a copy of the real Visio book, so I can't verify the
original poster's comment about the allcomputers site. My local library
does not have the book either.

But... The allcomputers site is a direct, verbatim display of the
Windows 7 Inside Out pages I posted earlier, right down to the graphics.

The allcomputers page does not give any credit to the information coming
from the Windows 7 book.

I check a couple of the links at the bottom of this page, also direct
copies from the book.

It seems this site may be 100% plagiarized at best, at worst breaking a
number of copyright laws.

If you want the information, buy the book or go to a library.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.3
Firefox 19.0.2
Thunderbird 17.0.4
LibreOffice 4.01.2

 

[charlie]

On 3/28/13 6:59 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Thu, 28 Mar 2013 17:33:42 -0600, Ken Springer wrote: []
I'm not sure you can class the Apple ][, Atari 800, and Commodore
64 as
strictly hobby computers. Lots of people were running businesses on
them, and I have a complete small business package written in Atari
Basic for my Atari 800.

You added the word strictly...

I didn't mean to imply it.

Tis true, I did. My bad.

Not so bad. Also, I just wanted to be picky

People ran businesses (at least, retail outlets) on the most surprising
things; I definitely remember having a receipt (though don't remember
making the purchase) for something that was on the silver (aluminium
powder) coated black paper that could only have come from the Sinclair
printer used with the Spectrum and ZX81 (and '80 I think). [It worked by
burning off the powder to reveal the black paper underneath.] I have the
_feeling_ that it was the earlier machine, rather than the Spectrum,
that the business in question used.

(Stroke of genius [IMO] how Sinclair did the printing: they just slowed
down the video output! OK, you lost screen while printing was going on.
Made for a very simple - and thus cheap, and affordable by many -
printer mechanism, though. [No, I never owned any Sinclair kit, apart
from a frequency meter, but I did admire a lot of their tricks: probably
things that many hated and despised, but there were some truly lateral
thinking aspects to some things they did, such as IMO the printing
described above.])

The Apple II and + was a fairly successful business machine.
An Apple III on the other hand, was a disaster, due to reliability
problems. The Lisa had potential that was really never obtained, in part
due to "Twiggy"? drives and Apple marketing decisions. Then, the MACs
came along, with a closed ops system, and just about did in the Apple
hobbyist market, along with a lot of third party mfrs that had made the
Apple II such a success.

 

[Stan Brown]

The info I was looking for is in Windows 7 Inside Out, Microsoft
Press, Library of Congress Control Number 23009932321, pages
363-364.

Thanks, Ken, for letting us know.

I suppressed your quote from the generally excellent /Windows 7
Inside Out/, but their scheme to use libraries has a flaw:
application settings are data and should really be on a separate
partition, but they won't be. My own backup protocol includes
ZIPping my application settings to a file on my data disk, and then
backing up the data disk.

 

[Ken Springer]

http://allcomputers.us/windows_7/advanced-file-management---relocating-personal-data-folders.aspx

I use Firefox with the Web of Trust add-on. That site gets flagged as
as having poor reputation in all categories. However, it was flagged by
only one person.

The person that flagged it said the text on allcomputers was a direct
copy from "Visual Studio 201 all in one for dummies". Yep. Looks like
a typo there, doesn't it?

More research, I went looking for an ebook on a generic used book site
that searches various bookstores. But I corrected what looks like a
typo to 2010. No ebook listed. Did the same using Google Encrypted and
a couple other sites.

books.google.com says no ebook available.

But one search link from Google was for a site wehaslinks.com. At the
bottom of the page is a link to download the file, but that website
apparently no longer exists. I get the infamous "server not found" type
of message from Firefox. Even when I just used the basic URL of
www.xxxxxxxxxxx.com.

Next searched specifically for ebooks, found a site that offered a
torrent download of a book. But WOT flagged this site, and there were
about a dozen comments, and all but the latest comment (from last month)
called it a phishing site.

Went to the search page again, clicked on same link. Eventually got to
a different torrent site, using identical steps. Also flagged by WOT.

Want to know what the search phrase is for both torrent sites?
"Visual+studio+201+all+in+one+for+dummies"

I don't have a copy of the real Visio book, so I can't verify the
original poster's comment about the allcomputers site. My local library
does not have the book either.

But... The allcomputers site is a direct, verbatim display of the
Windows 7 Inside Out pages I posted earlier, right down to the graphics.

The allcomputers page does not give any credit to the information coming
from the Windows 7 book.

I check a couple of the links at the bottom of this page, also direct
copies from the book.

It seems this site may be 100% plagiarized at best, at worst breaking a
number of copyright laws.

If you want the information, buy the book or go to a library.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.3
Firefox 19.0.2
Thunderbird 17.0.4
LibreOffice 4.01.2

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.3
Firefox 19.0.2
Thunderbird 17.0.4
LibreOffice 4.0.1.2

 

[James]

I'm sure there are people grumbling about the title/subject here, but
more specificity would probably be counter productive.

The question applies to all versions of Windows, probably starting with
Windows 95. I'm posting in the Windows 7 area as I was researching Win
7 items when I found the support article I'm now looking for and cannot
find.

Over the last two months, I've been researching Win 7's libraries,
document relocation, and system backup (not system restore points).

For years, I've been telling everyone that would listen, a smarter data
storage model is to put the user's data on a drive other than C:\.
Doing so would mean quicker reinstallation of the operating system if
needed, smaller boot drive/partition making back ups of that partition
faster, better protection of your documents from malware, etc.

And, of course, I take hits all the time with people telling me that's
not necessary.

During the web searching, I stumbled upon an MS article that, buried in
the text of the article, is exactly what I've been saying all these
years. Now that I want to reference this article, download it in fact,
I can't find it. It clearly stated that for some users, storage of data
somewhere other than C:\ was beneficial.

I thought I'd bookmarked it, but apparently not. Neither can I find it
listed in my browser's history. :-(

I thought it might be in the technet area, but I haven't found it there
either.

Does this ring a bell with anyone's memory? It's there somewhere! LOL

I came late to this thread, so this may already have been discussed. I
found an article that says you can do what the original poster wants
to do by using symbolic links. In brief, moving the program from C:
to X:, and creating a link to it on the C: drive. The link to the
article is:

http://www.techsupportalert.com/con...rams-another-drive-or-partition-windows-7.htm

I recognize that the links may disappear if the drive gets trashed,
but I would think it will make a backup much smaller.

Has anyone tried this to see if it works?

 

[Ken Springer]

Thanks, Ken, for letting us know.

You're welcome, Stan.

I suppressed your quote from the generally excellent /Windows 7
Inside Out/, but their scheme to use libraries has a flaw:
application settings are data and should really be on a separate
partition, but they won't be. My own backup protocol includes
ZIPping my application settings to a file on my data disk, and then
backing up the data disk.

What I find interesting is the AppData folder is in the personal folder
for the user, but it's a hidden file. And, there's no location tab that
allows you to relocate it. It relocating that folder was allowed, some
of your concerns would be met, wouldn't it?

I think they should allow the user to move any and all things in their
user account.

I'm wondering if the solution/article that James posted would work for
you...

I don't think much of libraries at all the way it's set up in Windows as
the default. It doesn't work the way I'd like. But, I did come up with
a workaround to make them behave as I would like. Eventually, I'm going
to go try to find some kind of 3rd party app that mimics my workaround
for this Mac.



--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.3
Firefox 19.0.2
Thunderbird 17.0.4
LibreOffice 4.0.1.2

 

[Ken Springer]

I came late to this thread, so this may already have been discussed. I
found an article that says you can do what the original poster wants
to do by using symbolic links. In brief, moving the program from C:
to X:, and creating a link to it on the C: drive. The link to the
article is:

http://www.techsupportalert.com/con...rams-another-drive-or-partition-windows-7.htm

I recognize that the links may disappear if the drive gets trashed,
but I would think it will make a backup much smaller.

Has anyone tried this to see if it works?

You're the first person to mention this method. But, it's far more
technical than I wish do get into.

But, it makes me wonder if using the normal relocation of documents
isn't doing something like this in the background.



--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.3
Firefox 19.0.2
Thunderbird 17.0.4
LibreOffice 4.0.1.2

 

[Stan Brown]

I came late to this thread, so this may already have been discussed. I
found an article that says you can do what the original poster wants
to do by using symbolic links. In brief, moving the program from C:
to X:, and creating a link to it on the C: drive. The link to the
article is:

http://www.techsupportalert.com/con...rams-another-drive-or-partition-windows-7.htm

I recognize that the links may disappear if the drive gets trashed,
but I would think it will make a backup much smaller.

I wonder. The article says, "In fact, you can make it appear that
your folder or file is still on the C:\ drive when it has actually
been moved to another drive or partition."

That sounds like the folder would be backed up _both_ as part of C:
_and_ as part of the other partition.

Has anyone tried this to see if it works?

I'd be curious to hear.

 

[Char Jackson]

I don't think much of libraries at all the way it's set up in Windows as
the default. It doesn't work the way I'd like. But, I did come up with
a workaround to make them behave as I would like. Eventually, I'm going
to go try to find some kind of 3rd party app that mimics my workaround
for this Mac.

I suppose I know what you don't like, but what is it that you came up with
that you do like? Maybe others would like to emulate it.

Personally, Libraries work fine for me just as they are, but I know that
people have different needs and expectations.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

What I find interesting is the AppData folder is in the personal folder
for the user, but it's a hidden file. And, there's no location tab that
allows you to relocate it. It relocating that folder was allowed, some
of your concerns would be met, wouldn't it?

I think they should allow the user to move any and all things in their
user account.

If you're willing to mess with environment variables, you could alter
this one:

APPDATA=C:\Users\Gene Bloch\AppData\Roaming

(I copied it from the 'set' command in a command window and pasted it
here).

I am willing to set environment variables (I do it from time to time in
situations such as updating the Java Development Kit), but to tell the
truth, I'd be afraid to try changing the above.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

I wonder. The article says, "In fact, you can make it appear that
your folder or file is still on the C:\ drive when it has actually
been moved to another drive or partition."

That sounds like the folder would be backed up _both_ as part of C:
_and_ as part of the other partition.

I was going to post that I thought it would still be backed up with C:,
but I didn't think of the duplication that you pointed out...

 

[Ken Springer]

If you're willing to mess with environment variables, you could alter
this one:

APPDATA=C:\Users\Gene Bloch\AppData\Roaming

(I copied it from the 'set' command in a command window and pasted it
here).

I am willing to set environment variables (I do it from time to time in
situations such as updating the Java Development Kit), but to tell the
truth, I'd be afraid to try changing the above.

I stay away from that type of changes. I like to find ways of doing X,
Y, and Z by using what's available to the normal user. That way I can
tell them that doing something is easy enough for them to do.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.3
Firefox 19.0.2
Thunderbird 17.0.4
LibreOffice 4.0.1.2

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

I stay away from that type of changes. I like to find ways of doing X,
Y, and Z by using what's available to the normal user. That way I can
tell them that doing something is easy enough for them to do.

I can't argue with prudence (or even Prudence, for that matter).

I lie somewhere on the line between normal user and expert, obviously
far enough over to be willing to mess with some environment variables,
but definitely *not* far enough over to mess with all of them.

 

[Ken Springer]

I can't argue with prudence (or even Prudence, for that matter).

That might depend on what Prudence has to offer. >

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.3
Firefox 19.0.2
Thunderbird 17.0.4
LibreOffice 4.0.1.2

 

[James]

I tried this technique as an experiment using CCleaner, since if I
screwed it up I could always D/L it again. Bottom line, it worked
after deleting the original file on the C: drive.

CCleaner was on my C: drive and I wanted to move it to the G: drive.

Follow the directions in the previous posting. Move the entire
folder/file/whatever from where it was to where you want it.

Open the command prompt as an administrator. I have administrator's
privileges but Window (Win 7 Ultimate, in my case) doesn't seem to
care when using the command prompt. It wants to be absolutey certain
you have admin rights. Use Start/cmd/right click on cmd.exe/run as
Administrator *before* you open the command prompt.

Make the link and see if it works. It may take you a couple of tries
to get it right. It took me three or four.

When the link works (from the icon on the Desktop, for example) you're
good. Then delete the original directory (C: in my case) and test
again. If it doesn't work, restore from the Recycle bin and try
again.

I think this should resolve Stan Brown's question.

HTH.

 

[Char Jackson]

I've seen similar posts. And at first I found the libraries confusing
until I figured out just what was going on.

It's really straightforward, but I suspect that some people bring in
preconceived notions about how it should work, versus just learning how it
actually does work.

And then you have those that have file Y showing in folder X in a
library. They decide, that in the library view, they have no need of
file Y. So they delete it, not realizing they've just deleted the
original file, then get angry when they can't find that file at a later
date.

I've read about that scenario here in this newsgroup, but I don't know of
anyone in real life who fell for such a thing. Of the people that I support,
I doubt there's even one who could tell the difference between working in a
folder versus working in a Library, so the scenario above would never happen
unless they're also the kind of person who deletes a file from a regular
folder. Either way, if they're lucky, the Recycle Bin is there as a safety
net. If they're unlucky, they get to learn that deleting a file deletes that
file. That may seem to be too obvious to be worth mentioning, but apparently
it's not, given the scenario you've described above.

By that, I mean the computing power of tablets and smartphones. Can you
do AutoCAD on a tablet? Nope. What about Photoshop? Nope. Full blown
Office or similar? Nope.

The inability to do this level of computing is what I was referring to,
you can't do this kind of work on them. This is what I meant by low
abilities of tablets and smartphones. You certainly aren't going to do
any speed typing.

Well, first of all, no one in their right mind buys that kind of computing
device with the idea of running those kinds of applications on it. That
isn't what they're designed for. As for speed typing, be careful. I can
enter text a whole lot faster on my S3 (for text messages, emails, forming
web searches, asking for directions, etc.) than I can on any standard
keyboard. Yes, I cheat. I use voice input far more than I use the keyboard.
On my very best day, I could never type as quickly as I can speak.

I'd disagree here. I don't think most users today learn enough about
any OS to think there might be a better way to do something.

Most users don't care a whit about the OS. Their cares start and end with
'what can I do with this thing' or 'what can this thing do for me' types of
questions.

A huge step forward for a group of users, but not a huge step forward in
the computer's capabilities. And if they knew more about the computer
and OS, it wouldn't be a huge step forward.

It doesn't matter in the slightest to most people whether something is a
step forward or not for the computer. They only want to know how it affects
them as a user. In this newsgroup, we skew a bit to the geeky side, but I
don't think the same is true for the general computer-using population. For
the most part, they just want to use the computer. They don't want to be
bothered with how it works.

I have a friend who likes the Libraries as they are, and always uses the
My Docs, My Pics, etc. system that MS created. It works for her. But
the My this and that only works as long as you have space on your hard
drive/partition. Then the system fails.

That has nothing to do with Libraries, though. Libraries or not, it's up to
the user to manage available disk space. If anything, Libraries make it
easier. Running out of space on C:? Create a folder on D:, add it to the
existing Library and make it the default folder. Very easy and
straightforward.

And I'll say it again, just to be a PITA (LOL), if the user knows the OS
and understands shortcuts, the ability of Libraries has always been
there. At least, 95% of it.

To me, the biggest part of the Library concept is consolidating the view of
two or more folders, something that you can't do with shortcuts. Speaking of
shortcuts, I've gotten a lot more glassy stares when I've tried to explain
shortcuts to non-PC literate folks than when I've explained Libraries.
Libraries do something that regular people see a need for, while shortcuts
just confuse them.

 

[Ken Springer]

It's really straightforward, but I suspect that some people bring in
preconceived notions about how it should work, versus just learning how it
actually does work.

I kind of got caught up by this too, because MS calls them Libraries.
And I expected it to work like a real library, which they don't.

I've read about that scenario here in this newsgroup, but I don't know of
anyone in real life who fell for such a thing. Of the people that I support,
I doubt there's even one who could tell the difference between working in a
folder versus working in a Library, so the scenario above would never happen
unless they're also the kind of person who deletes a file from a regular
folder. Either way, if they're lucky, the Recycle Bin is there as a safety
net. If they're unlucky, they get to learn that deleting a file deletes that
file. That may seem to be too obvious to be worth mentioning, but apparently
it's not, given the scenario you've described above.

I'm no longer surprised by what users do.

Deleting from a regular folder... How do you delete from an irregular
folder????? LOL

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Well, first of all, no one in their right mind buys that kind of computing
device with the idea of running those kinds of applications on it. That
isn't what they're designed for. As for speed typing, be careful. I can
enter text a whole lot faster on my S3 (for text messages, emails, forming
web searches, asking for directions, etc.) than I can on any standard
keyboard. Yes, I cheat. I use voice input far more than I use the keyboard.
On my very best day, I could never type as quickly as I can speak.

I'm sure there are people who buy tablets and such thinking they are
more computer than they are. I've actually heard these kinds of
comments from members of my Mac User Group.

Don't you know? "Cheaters never win." LOL

What's been your overall impression of speech to text programs? I've
thought about trying them, but have never gotten around to them.

Most users don't care a whit about the OS. Their cares start and end with
'what can I do with this thing' or 'what can this thing do for me' types of
questions.

IMO, this lack of caring about the OS simply holds them back, and
contributes to them making the mistakes that are not recoverable. The
"what can I do with this thing" was my main question when I first saw a
computer, an Atari 800.

It doesn't matter in the slightest to most people whether something is a
step forward or not for the computer. They only want to know how it affects
them as a user. In this newsgroup, we skew a bit to the geeky side, but I
don't think the same is true for the general computer-using population. For
the most part, they just want to use the computer. They don't want to be
bothered with how it works.

"They just want to use the computer." Exactly! But, I think these
folks are today's version of the people who bought a VCR, could record
and play, but couldn't set the time or program it to record an upcoming
program. So they buy something for X dollars, but don't get as much
from it as they could if they spent the time "in school" learning something.

I think a lot of computer buyers who know little or nothing about
computers have expectations of sitting down in front of it and doing
magical things. They don't know there's a huge up front learning curve.
I worked for a guy one time that had that feeling. When he found out
he needed to know more than where the on-off switch was, he ended up
paying me to do the computer work he was planning on doing.

That has nothing to do with Libraries, though. Libraries or not, it's up to
the user to manage available disk space. If anything, Libraries make it
easier. Running out of space on C:? Create a folder on D:, add it to the
existing Library and make it the default folder. Very easy and
straightforward.

I didn't mean to imply My XXXXX had anything to do with Libraries. I
was trying to say that my friend likes the way MS has set things up out
of the box, Libraries, My XXXX, etc. Where I want something slightly
different, sometimes. And sometimes something completely different.

If I was doing Libraries, I don't want to see everything listed in X
number of folders. I want to see certain specific things from X number
of folders. Such as just the pics of Aunt Sally, but not her house,
car, dog, etc. that may also be in that folder.

But I don't like a lot of things Apple does with OS X either.

I like the phrase "personal computer", with the emphasis on "personal".
Give me the ability to customize in a number of ways, don't force me
to do it just one way.

To me, the biggest part of the Library concept is consolidating the view of
two or more folders, something that you can't do with shortcuts. Speaking of
shortcuts, I've gotten a lot more glassy stares when I've tried to explain
shortcuts to non-PC literate folks than when I've explained Libraries.
Libraries do something that regular people see a need for, while shortcuts
just confuse them.

You can do it with shortcuts, if you do it the way I explained in the
long winded explanation. LOL

I've found that many computer knowledgeable people have a hard time
explaining computer operations because they do get too "geeky", and
don't explain things in terms the listener understands. I usually try
to explain things using analogies.

For shortcuts, you could an office filing system as an analogy. You've
got a piece of paper that needs to be referenced in two separate files.
You put the paper in file A. And you put a note in file B that says
if you want to see this paper, look in file A. The note in file B is
essentially a shortcut.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.3
Firefox 19.0.2
Thunderbird 17.0.4
LibreOffice 4.0.1.2

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

It's really straightforward, but I suspect that some people bring in
preconceived notions about how it should work, versus just learning how it
actually does work.

When something differs from one's habits that are derived from what one
has previously used, or when parts of an interface are inconsistent with
other parts, mistakes are possible even in the face of knowledge to the
contrary.

I've read about that scenario here in this newsgroup, but I don't know of
anyone in real life who fell for such a thing.

You have heard in these newsgroups from at least one such person. That's
me.

<MORE SNIPS>

I don't wish to defend either my position or yours and Microsoft's,
since it's an old argument with no evidence of either side changing
their mind, but I do wish to present the above facts for everyone's
consideration.

 

[Ken Springer]

When something differs from one's habits that are derived from what one
has previously used, or when parts of an interface are inconsistent with
other parts, mistakes are possible even in the face of knowledge to the
contrary.

Or, if some parts simply misuse the English language.

You have heard in these newsgroups from at least one such person. That's
me.

<MORE SNIPS>

I don't wish to defend either my position or yours and Microsoft's,
since it's an old argument with no evidence of either side changing
their mind, but I do wish to present the above facts for everyone's
consideration.

There's nothing "wrong" here, other than MS's inability to read, write,
and understand English. LOL And it's not the first time MS has played
fast and loose with the English language, if memory serves.

If you check out Wikipedia, "A library (from French "librairie"; Latin
"liber" = book) is an organized collection of information resources made
accessible to a defined community for reference or borrowing." Notice
the word organized. If you take X numbers of folders with disorganized
data, you just end up with all the disorganized data in one location
instead of X locations.

As Char noted, some people like the way they work. But, I wonder, if a
survey could be taken, would the organized users of hard drives be
equally enthused, especially if they have spent a lot of time in real
libraries growing up, and understand the card file/Dewey decimal system.

I expected better. And I often expect better of OS X, too.

Guess you could say, I'm an equal opportunity "expecter". LOL

And to continue to play with words, there's the old saying, "If you
expect to rate, don't expectorate." <grin>


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.3
Firefox 19.0.2
Thunderbird 17.0.4
LibreOffice 4.0.1.2