MS Office in Win 7

[Auric__]

Wow! That looks like a really respectable tablet. I didn't know about
this one when I was shopping for one. While I have been using tablets
for many years, I never had a Windows based tablet. As I didn't envision
Windows to be very practical in a tablet environment.

But last month, using Windows 8 got me curious about them. So I bought
two Dell Latitude ST w/128GB SSD. They came with Windows 7 Pro. And
Windows 7 isn't as bad as I thought it would be on a tablet. So one I
upgraded to Windows 8 Pro. Now I can compare them side by side.

Those Dells use way under powered Atom Z670 processors. And you have to
have everything tamed down so the CPU isn't maxed out all of the time to
make it usable just for one task. And I was thinking that XP might run
so much better on these machines instead of Windows 7. Although I didn't
know anything about XP Tablet Edition either.

So I had to learn about them, so I bought a couple of Motion Computing
LE1600 tablets with XP installed. One is a digitizer tablet and the
other is a touch screen tablet. I didn't even know the difference until
I started playing around with them. And it is very interesting to learn
the difference. ;-)

Wow. I only have the one tablet; don't really feel the need for more. (I
also have a desktop workstation running XP that I use for most home use, a
Win7 netbook for my mother, and a Linux server.)

One of the reasons I bought the tablet *when* I bought it was so I wouldn't
be getting Windows 8, about which I haven't heard much good. (I'm a lurker/
occasional poster in alt.comp.os.windows-8, but... yeesh.) I was thinking
about grabbing MS's $15 upgrade to 8 "just because", but then decided
against it. I mean, Win7 is doing the job for me, I don't particularly want
8, I doubt I'd ever even install it... why bother?

I *have* been thinking about getting a small, cheap Droid tablet so I know
the difference when asked (and believe me, I get grilled about my tablet
once in a while by geeks who think I *do* know -- dude, go hassle a
salesperson or something).

I've also thought about trying XP Tablet Edition, but I'm leary of breaking
things. (I rather doubt there are XP drivers for my hardware.)

 

[BillW50]

Wow. I only have the one tablet; don't really feel the need for more. (I
also have a desktop workstation running XP that I use for most home use, a
Win7 netbook for my mother, and a Linux server.)

One of the reasons I bought the tablet *when* I bought it was so I wouldn't
be getting Windows 8, about which I haven't heard much good. (I'm a lurker/
occasional poster in alt.comp.os.windows-8, but... yeesh.) I was thinking
about grabbing MS's $15 upgrade to 8 "just because", but then decided
against it. I mean, Win7 is doing the job for me, I don't particularly want
8, I doubt I'd ever even install it... why bother?

I *have* been thinking about getting a small, cheap Droid tablet so I know
the difference when asked (and believe me, I get grilled about my tablet
once in a while by geeks who think I *do* know -- dude, go hassle a
salesperson or something).

I've also thought about trying XP Tablet Edition, but I'm leary of breaking
things. (I rather doubt there are XP drivers for my hardware.)

Well to be honest with you, I've only been playing with four Windows
tablets for a month now and I think you did better than me. As I think
yours is better than my four put together. The best that I got was the
learning experience. That part I am thankful for. ;-)

Oh I don't think Windows 8 is all that bad. After all, the desktop side
is so much like Windows 7 with a bit nicer things added to it. And you
can stay there as long as you like.

There is the Metro side too that you never have to go to if you don't
want to. I have a really good record of predicting what will make it and
what won't. But Metro has me baffled. It looks like 50/50 to me and it
could go either way. But I do think which way the scale starts to tip
heavily, it will continue that way.

Whether Windows 8 is a success or not, I do see a huge surge coming with
Windows tablets. As almost nobody used Windows tablets until now because
only a few companies made them and they were very expensive. So few
actually had them and the price held them back from catching on.

But now the demand is growing and the price is dropping and more and
more companies are jumping on the Windows tablet bandwagon. And I am not
seeing a very good future for droids or iPads to be honest with you. I
think they might have already peaked and now it is all downhill for them.

Speaking about droids, I bought one just for the same reason you are
thinking about one. They are cute and all and has long battery life
(well a lot do anyway), cute screens, and features and all. And you can
do lots of stuff on them. But can you do everything that you can do
under Windows? No! Windows as this huge edge in this department.

Yeah getting XP Tablet Edition for something that it didn't come with is
really iffy. Like you mentioned, drivers are probably the biggest
problem. Although after playing with XP and 7 tablets, I would say
Windows 7 is the better bet. As Windows 7 has a few more features for
tablets that XP tablet version doesn't have. But I won't say it isn't a
total deal breaker, just a bit nicer under Windows 7. You can say
Windows 8 is better yet, but you don't have to if you don't want too.
Windows 8 does have the nicer touch screen keyboard though. ;-) The XP
on screen keyboard is basically useless without a stylus (or a mouse).
And that isn't fun.

And there is a huge difference in screens. I am not talking about the
things you need to know about buying monitors, but as in tablets. Some
are digitizers and some are touch screens. There is a big difference.
The former is usually more expensive and more for writing or drawing.
While touch is more for a mouse replacement. Some parts of each overlap
and some parts doesn't.

Touch for example will work with the stylus or finger (or lots of other
things). But a digitizer will only work with the stylus. That might
sound bad for the digitizer, but the digitizer has more control compared
to touch and features for the stylus. So it all depends on what you are
looking for. I can see Metro being far less fun with a digitizer vs.
touch. Although with XP, 7 or the Windows 8 desktop, it depends on what
you want to do. As one or the other might be better.

 

[Auric__]

But now the demand is growing and the price is dropping and more and
more companies are jumping on the Windows tablet bandwagon. And I am not
seeing a very good future for droids or iPads to be honest with you. I
think they might have already peaked and now it is all downhill for them.

I'm not a fan of Apple; I've always viewed their computers as highly-
overpriced toys... and the iPad is just an enormous phone that can't make
calls. (I was showed that modern iPads can *finally* do more than one thing
at a time... sigh.)

Speaking about droids, I bought one just for the same reason you are
thinking about one. They are cute and all and has long battery life
(well a lot do anyway), cute screens, and features and all. And you can
do lots of stuff on them. But can you do everything that you can do
under Windows? No! Windows as this huge edge in this department.

Actually, the *main* reason I wanted a *Windows* tablet was so I could run
Excel. See also this thread's topic. ;-) If I didn't want Excel --
*specifically* Excel and not just "a spreadsheet app" -- I could've saved a
few hundred bucks and gotten a Droid tablet.

Yeah getting XP Tablet Edition for something that it didn't come with is
really iffy. Like you mentioned, drivers are probably the biggest
problem. Although after playing with XP and 7 tablets, I would say
Windows 7 is the better bet. As Windows 7 has a few more features for
tablets that XP tablet version doesn't have. But I won't say it isn't a
total deal breaker, just a bit nicer under Windows 7. You can say
Windows 8 is better yet, but you don't have to if you don't want too.
Windows 8 does have the nicer touch screen keyboard though. ;-) The XP
on screen keyboard is basically useless without a stylus (or a mouse).
And that isn't fun.

A friend of mine is a computer guru, and he says that my main issue will be
getting drivers for the touch screen -- and since THAT'S THE ENTIRE REASON
I GOT A TABLET, I almost certainly won't be using XP there, despite its
*much* smaller disk & memory requirements.

And there is a huge difference in screens. I am not talking about the
things you need to know about buying monitors, but as in tablets. Some
are digitizers and some are touch screens. There is a big difference.
The former is usually more expensive and more for writing or drawing.
While touch is more for a mouse replacement. Some parts of each overlap
and some parts doesn't.

Touch for example will work with the stylus or finger (or lots of other
things). But a digitizer will only work with the stylus. That might
sound bad for the digitizer, but the digitizer has more control compared
to touch and features for the stylus. So it all depends on what you are
looking for. I can see Metro being far less fun with a digitizer vs.
touch. Although with XP, 7 or the Windows 8 desktop, it depends on what
you want to do. As one or the other might be better.

Mine's a touch screen but I bought a stylus because I *constantly* hit the
wrong teeny tiny buttons with my fingers (a.k.a. Fat Finger Syndrome). I
also installed Dragon NaturallySpeaking so I can be even lazier. ;-)

I had what amounts to a tablet in the mid-90's:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compaq_Concerto

It was a laptop with a stylus and detachable keyboard, but it could run no
better than Windows 3 with the pen enhancements installed. (It was pretty
awesome, though; wish I'd kept it. Slow as it would be compared to modern
computers, I'm sure I could use it for my modern biz needs. Actually, now
that I think about it... *goes to ebay* Damn, none for sale.)

 

[BillW50]

I'm not a fan of Apple; I've always viewed their computers as highly-
overpriced toys... and the iPad is just an enormous phone that can't make
calls. (I was showed that modern iPads can *finally* do more than one thing
at a time... sigh.)

Oh man, I hear you. While Apple might have done some things first (not
really, but PARC did and Steve had stolen it), it was always very pricy.

Actually, the *main* reason I wanted a *Windows* tablet was so I could run
Excel. See also this thread's topic. ;-) If I didn't want Excel --
*specifically* Excel and not just "a spreadsheet app" -- I could've saved a
few hundred bucks and gotten a Droid tablet.

I don't know, I personally think you did far better getting a Windows
tablet. ;-)

A friend of mine is a computer guru, and he says that my main issue will be
getting drivers for the touch screen -- and since THAT'S THE ENTIRE REASON
I GOT A TABLET, I almost certainly won't be using XP there, despite its
*much* smaller disk& memory requirements.

Yeah I haven't even tried trying to get Windows XP Tablet on those Dells
running Windows 7 and 8 yet. Getting drivers to work I am sure is going
to be a huge problem if not impossible (well nothing like this is is
impossible, but totally impracticable).

Mine's a touch screen but I bought a stylus because I *constantly* hit the
wrong teeny tiny buttons with my fingers (a.k.a. Fat Finger Syndrome). I
also installed Dragon NaturallySpeaking so I can be even lazier. ;-)

A stylus is so much more precise than any finger (so don't blame your
fingers). The only big flaw of a stylus is multitouch. I suppose
somebody could invent a glove or something that slips on each finger,
but I don't think I would like that too much.

I had what amounts to a tablet in the mid-90's:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compaq_Concerto

It was a laptop with a stylus and detachable keyboard, but it could run no
better than Windows 3 with the pen enhancements installed. (It was pretty
awesome, though; wish I'd kept it. Slow as it would be compared to modern
computers, I'm sure I could use it for my modern biz needs. Actually, now
that I think about it... *goes to ebay* Damn, none for sale.)

Oh man! That thing looks awesome! I wish I had experience with it (I
didn't even know they existed until now). I only used Windows 3.1x for
about two years and I loved it. I didn't hate Windows 95 or anything
when it came out, but just merged with it. I really would have loved
that machine though. ;-)

 

[Auric__]

Oh man, I hear you. While Apple might have done some things first (not
really, but PARC did and Steve had stolen it), it was always very pricy.

I'm a reg on [ahem] a certain site where occasional PC vs Mac comparisons
are made, and the result is that you can *build* a Mac using normal PC
hardware (as long as you stick with stuff actually supported by OSX) for
something like 1/3 or even 1/4 the price of the Mac. Added bonus, your
Hackintosh will run OSX if you want. (I'm actually considering doing
exactly that; I'd like a newer computer for certain modern games, and if I
do it, I might as well throw OSX on for the hell of it.)

I actually own a couple of Macs:
old: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_1400
older: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_LC_500_series#LC_550

Up to a few years ago, I owned several of the second and third models of
Mac released:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_512K
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_Plus
Never actually found a use for them, except for things like "doorstop" and
"paperweight". (Seriously.)

I don't know, I personally think you did far better getting a Windows
tablet. ;-)

Well, yeah, of course... but since I got it for biz purposes, I would have
no problem getting the el cheapo $100 Droid tablet, if it could only run
Excel. (I suppose I *could* get it to do Excel, assuming Wine runs
acceptably under Droid, but I prefer to run Windows software ON WINDOWS.)
How nice or how big the tablet is wasn't really my main concern; it was, in
order of importance:
1. Windows
2. not so expensive that it maxes out my credit card
3. 32-bit

If I had found a tablet I liked that came with Win64, and cost less than
the $520 I paid for the Iconia, I would've got it. (32-bit is *very* low
importance, and that's only because I have a few 16-bit apps I still use --
but I would've had no problem *not* using them on the tablet. Yes, I could
get 16-bit apps running in Win64 using a variety of methods, but that's
beside the point.)

Yeah I haven't even tried trying to get Windows XP Tablet on those Dells
running Windows 7 and 8 yet. Getting drivers to work I am sure is going
to be a huge problem if not impossible (well nothing like this is is
impossible, but totally impracticable).

There comes a time when impractical == impossible. I'm not going to get
myself to the point where I can write Windows drivers just for my own use.
(By god, if I'm writing drivers, *someone's* going to be paying me for it.)

A stylus is so much more precise than any finger (so don't blame your
fingers). The only big flaw of a stylus is multitouch. I suppose
somebody could invent a glove or something that slips on each finger,
but I don't think I would like that too much.

I actually don't *need* the stylus -- and in fact don't usually use it on
the road -- but it's very annoying to have to switch back to (for example)
Winamp several times before I successfully hit the teeny tiny "close"
button.

Oh man! That thing looks awesome! I wish I had experience with it (I
didn't even know they existed until now). I only used Windows 3.1x for
about two years and I loved it. I didn't hate Windows 95 or anything
when it came out, but just merged with it. I really would have loved
that machine though. ;-)

After some reading, it looks like the RAM was upgradable to the point that
it could've run 95 (requires 4mb; runs best with at least 8mb; Concerto
could go to 20mb) or NT3.51 (requires 12mb) and *that* I would use the hell
out of. (I don't know if the pen enhancements would work under 9x or NT,
though. Would take testing.)

The only downside is that the screen was VGA grayscale... but that's a
*minor* downside.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

I just noticed that. Have you used it before?

Anyway, it seems to fit the world I live in quite well

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Actually, the *main* reason I wanted a *Windows* tablet was so I could run
Excel. See also this thread's topic. ;-) If I didn't want Excel --
*specifically* Excel and not just "a spreadsheet app" -- I could've saved a
few hundred bucks and gotten a Droid tablet.

I run Excel on my Android phone and exchange files with my PC.

However, it might be more accurate to rephrase that:
I run "Excel" on my Android phone...

It is pretty similar, but perhaps not enough for you. I use Excel only
for home purposes, and don't need much compatibility.

The one I use is Documents To Go. Others exist.

 

[Auric__]

I just noticed that. Have you used it before?

I've been using random sigs for several years so I couldn't really say, but
Google says no.

The quote itself is from MASH. (The series, I believe, not the movie.)

Anyway, it seems to fit the world I live in quite well

;-)

 

[Laszlo Lebrun]

Am 12.01.2013 02:34, schrieb Auric__:

I hated the advertising that took up a relatively HUGE chunk of screen real
estate.

and the ribbon jeopardizes the rest.
On a netbook the best choice is still Office 2003.

 

[BillW50]

In Auric__ typed:

After some reading, it looks like the RAM was upgradable to the point
that it could've run 95 (requires 4mb; runs best with at least 8mb;
Concerto could go to 20mb) or NT3.51 (requires 12mb) and *that* I
would use the hell out of. (I don't know if the pen enhancements
would work under 9x or NT, though. Would take testing.)

The only downside is that the screen was VGA grayscale... but that's a
*minor* downside.

Did you see the one on eBay lately? One day left and it is still going
for 99¢. Unfortunately it doesn't work. And oddly enough it doesn't
always show up on an eBay search. I wonder why that is?

 

[Auric__]

In Auric__ typed:

Did you see the one on eBay lately? One day left and it is still going
for 99¢. Unfortunately it doesn't work. And oddly enough it doesn't
always show up on an eBay search. I wonder why that is?

No, I didn't. I usually *avoid* ebay, because I know I'll end up spending
money better spent elsewhere.

Based on the description, it's not something I'm interested in anyway -- too
much work needed to get working. I'd prefer one that (at least) boots to DOS.

 

[BillW50]

No, I didn't. I usually *avoid* ebay, because I know I'll end up spending
money better spent elsewhere.

Based on the description, it's not something I'm interested in anyway -- too
much work needed to get working. I'd prefer one that (at least) boots to DOS.

No that one isn't a good deal unless you have enough spare parts on hand
to get it going as good as new. But it is still neat to look at the
pictures. ;-)

Although speaking about eBay, I generally find about 90% of my purchases
are good deals (the other 10% isn't so good). The better deals are
generally from those that doesn't even know what they have. They can't
tell you anything about it because they really don't know. And sometimes
it is in a category it doesn't even belong in.

 

[BillW50]

In Auric__ typed on Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:23:07 +0000 (UTC):

No, I didn't. I usually *avoid* ebay, because I know I'll end up
spending money better spent elsewhere.

Based on the description, it's not something I'm interested in anyway
-- too much work needed to get working. I'd prefer one that (at
least) boots to DOS.

You're not going to believe this, as I hardly do myself. But I finally
picked up a Compaq Concerto for 20 bucks. The guy didn't know anything
about it and all he knew is it powers up and that was it. So I was
expecting the hard drive was wiped and without the digitizer driver, I
probably couldn't do much with the pen. And I thought I could at least
install DOS, Windows 3.1 or Windows 95 on it and get it working without
pen support anyway.

So when I got it, I turned it on. And up on the screen it said Windows
Pen v1.0. OMG! The OS is still there and it is still fully functional. I
played with it for a few hours and I am just amazed how virtually all of
the modern tablets features are also in this 20 year old tablet. I would
have used this thing to death back in the 90's if I knew they existed.

When I got it the battery was completely flat. I wasn't surprised since
the battery could be 20 years old now. But after a few hours, the fully
charged LED lit up. I said no way! So I removed the AC power and it was
still running. Unbelievable! Even the battery works. Windows claims it
has 3 hours of run time on the fully charged battery. I didn't test it
to see how close that reading really is. Even the keyboard is fully
functioning.

This machine is truly amazing and truly way ahead of its time. I suppose
the one thing I should do next is to make a backup of the hard drive. As
no telling how long the 20 year old hard drive will continue to run for.
And I don't think the odds are good finding another copy of one
somewhere. There was a Windows Pen v2 too that ran under Windows 95 that
probably would run on this machine. Although I don't know where you
could find a copy.

I am sure glad you told me about these machines. Although I wish I knew
about them 20 years ago. ;-)

 

[Wildman]

On Thu, 16 May 2013 09:51:26 -0500, BillW50 wrote:

Windows Pen v1.0

In case you might want to do a clean install of win3.1
or if the hard drive crashes here is a download link
for Windows for Pen Computing v1.0a.

http://winworldpc.com/library_m1.shtml

Click on "Abandonware Applications" then click "PC".
Scroll down to "Windows for Pen Computing 1a.7z"
Click to start download.

The software was intended to be on two 3.5" floppies
but the download is in a single archive. It should
install ok from a CD or a hard drive folder.

If you would like to return it to original form on
floppies, expand STFSETUP.IN_ to STFSETUP.INI and
it will tell you which disk the files go on.