KB976902 update disappears into Black Hole

[Dave \Crash\ Dummy]

After deciding I didn't want to install this update just yet, I hid it
for later use. Now it has disappeared. When I restore hidden
updates, it isn't there. All the other hidden updates, like language
packs, are there, but not KB976902.

 

[Thee Chicago Wolf [MVP]]

After deciding I didn't want to install this update just yet, I hid it

for later use. Now it has disappeared. When I restore hidden
updates, it isn't there. All the other hidden updates, like language
packs, are there, but not KB976902.

This was for RC1 of Service Pack 1 for Windows 7. You won't want it
since it's not final. Safe to ignore it until it is final release some
time next year.

- Thee Chicago Wolf [MVP]

 

[Dave \Crash\ Dummy]

This was for RC1 of Service Pack 1 for Windows 7. You won't want it
since it's not final. Safe to ignore it until it is final release some
time next year.

Suits me, as long as it is available again when the final SP is released.

 

[Thee Chicago Wolf [MVP]]

Suits me, as long as it is available again when the final SP is released.

There's usually a few months delay before it gets pushed to Windows
Update.

- Thee Chicago Wolf [MVP]

 

[Fishface]

After deciding I didn't want to install this update just yet, I hid it
for later use. Now it has disappeared. When I restore hidden
updates, it isn't there. All the other hidden updates, like language
packs, are there, but not KB976902.

I didn't install it, and didn't hide it, either, but mine also disappeared...

 

[Thee Chicago Wolf [MVP]]

I didn't install it, and didn't hide it, either, but mine also disappeared...

I believe this is what is termed as an "oopsie" on Microsoft's part.

- Thee Chicago Wolf [MVP]

 

[Ed Cryer]

I believe this is what is termed as an "oopsie" on Microsoft's part.

- Thee Chicago Wolf [MVP]

No, it's what we philosophers term "unreason". And we speculate as to
why some people are so attracted to it.

Ed

 

[Thee Chicago Wolf [MVP]]

No, it's what we philosophers term "unreason". And we speculate as to
why some people are so attracted to it.

Some probably saw it in their WU before Redmond pulled it for fear of
people installing it.

- Thee Chicago Wolf [MVP]

 

[Ed Cryer]

Some probably saw it in their WU before Redmond pulled it for fear of
people installing it.

- Thee Chicago Wolf [MVP]

Now, I'll await this with the greatest of interest. Just imagine how
many millions of computers throughout the world have installed this
thing! I repeat, millions! And if MS have (in the near future) to come
crawling with their tails between their wobbly legs and own up to;
1. Releasing a crippled update,
and then;
2. Furtively withdrawing it without any public announcement;
well, that will bring MS into greater disrepute than Nick Clegg is in
our coalition government.

Ed

 

[R. C. White]

?Hi, Crash.

i don't want to get into this "Black Hole" debate, but...

KB976902 was installed on my computer by Windows Update on July 1, 2010, to
prepare it for SP1 Beta, which was downloaded and installed by WU on 7/2/10.
I used SP1 Beta with no problems until today.

This morning, I went to:
http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/...ows-server-2008-r2-sp1-release-candidate.aspx

and followed the steps to download the WUSignUpTool_x64, which prepared my
computer to receive the SP1 RC via WU.

Then I used Win7's Programs and Features | Installed Updates to Uninstall
SP1 Beta (KB976932). That went off without a hitch, taking KB976902 with
it. Took a long time, though (about an hour) because, as a part of the
removal of the SP, it rolled back to Win7 RTM and then proceeded to
re-install the dozens of updates that had been rolled up into SP1.

Once SP1 Beta was gone and System Properties once again reported that I was
running Win7 (with NO SP), I ran WU again. There was an Important Update,
which was basically KB976902 again. I accepted that, and then ran WU again.
This time it found SP1 RC (KB976932 again), downloaded it and installed it.
It took a long time again - about an hour - because it first uninstalled all
those just-now-reinstalled updates, since they are again rolled into the SP1
RC.

The whole process was painless, except that it took about 2 1/2 hours, start
to finish, with a few interruptions from my other activities. I had to be
here at several points during the process to start the next stage. There
were several reboots, and a couple of times there seemed to be no progress
for 20 minutes or so. I almost clicked "Stop Download" at one point, but
seconds later the progress bar finally jumped from 94% to 100% and the
installation continued.

In this whole process, I never explicitly installed or uninstalled KB976902;
it just seemed to come and go as a part of doing other things.

Now, System Properties reports that I'm running Windows 7 Ultimate, Service
Pack 1, v.721. ;<)

By the way, I also have been running IE9 beta since 9/16/10, even though I
had qualms about running a beta on a beta. I did not bother to uninstall
that before updating the SP, and it survived intact.

All in all, a long but smooth process. ;<)

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-9/30/10)
Windows Live Mail Version 2011 (Build 15.4.3502.0922) in Win7 Ultimate x64
SP1 RC


"Dave "Crash" Dummy" wrote in message

After deciding I didn't want to install this update just yet, I hid it
for later use. Now it has disappeared. When I restore hidden
updates, it isn't there. All the other hidden updates, like language
packs, are there, but not KB976902.

 

[Char Jackson]

?Hi, Crash.

i don't want to get into this "Black Hole" debate, but...

All in all, a long but smooth process. ;<)

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-9/30/10)
Windows Live Mail Version 2011 (Build 15.4.3502.0922) in Win7 Ultimate x64
SP1 RC


"Dave "Crash" Dummy" wrote in message

After deciding I didn't want to install this update just yet, I hid it
for later use. Now it has disappeared. When I restore hidden
updates, it isn't there. All the other hidden updates, like language
packs, are there, but not KB976902.

R. C.

Is it safe to assume that there's no hope of your news client getting
the sig delimiter in the right place? Also, no hope of it quoting
previous text properly?

Thanks,

 

[Nil]

Is it safe to assume that there's no hope of your news client
getting the sig delimiter in the right place? Also, no hope of it
quoting previous text properly?

I think that's a safe assumption, since the guy refused to even
acknowledge that any of that happens.

 

[John Aldred]

After deciding I didn't want to install this update just yet, I hid it
for later use. Now it has disappeared. When I restore hidden
updates, it isn't there. All the other hidden updates, like language
packs, are there, but not KB976902.

This also happened to me.

However, today I decided to install the Windows SP1 RC, using the
514 MB stand alone installer file (windows6.1-KB976932-X86.exe).
The first thing that the installation process did was to get KB976902 and
install it.

The SP doesn't seem to have broken anything yet.

 

[relic]

I think that's a safe assumption, since the guy refused to even
acknowledge that any of that happens.

It requires two checks on the WLM Advanced Options: Reply at the bottom and
Sig at the bottom. That's way more that most MVPs have ever been capable of
in the past.

 

[Char Jackson]

It requires two checks on the WLM Advanced Options: Reply at the bottom and
Sig at the bottom. That's way more that most MVPs have ever been capable of
in the past.

Hey R.C., want to give these a try, even if just as a test?

 

[R. C. White]

?Hi, Char.

I've seen many of your helpful messages here and I don't want to argue with
you and others whose opinions I respect. But...

I've been using OE/WM/WLM ever since OE first appeared in 1995. I don't
recall just when I started using Sigs, but it was much more than 10 years
ago. Some of the old ones in my Sent Items from 1997 show the Sig I was
using then - and it was top-posted and used the "-- " delimiter. Just about
all of the 30,000 messages in my Sent items archives used that pattern.
This thread is the first one I recall where this has been made a serious
issue.

Is it because Forte Agent has a problem? WLM seems to handle it quite
easily.

This new Wave 4 version of WLM does have several faults that we've been
complaining loudly about. Our gripes seem to have fallen on deaf ears, but
we keep hoping that the WLMail Team will fix some glaring problems SOON!
The failure to properly quote prior messages may be the most obvious, but
WLM's frequent interruption with a focus-stealing "error" message when there
is NO error makes it much harder to use, too. Maybe I should be exploring
other newsreaders, but I haven't looked at those since Netscape
Communicator, Pegasus, Eudora and several others in the mid-1990's. When OE
arrived in 1995, I finally could check on all my email providers with a
single dial-up phone call, which I could not do with the others, so I made
my choice and have not felt a need to change since.

The top/bottom/inline/quote/snip arguments are constants in newsgroups, as
I'm sure you know. They are like religion or politics. They seldom change
opinions or behaviors on either side. I participated in the debates a few
times, but not in the last dozen or so years - and no more.

I'll state my position, just once:

Whether top-posting or bottom-posting is best depends largely on the reader,
not on the sender of the message. And the reader's preference may change
with the situation. Most of the time, I download all the new messages in a
newsgroup, then start reading them. If there are multiple new messages in a
thread, I don't want to have to re-read all the prior ones to get to the
current discussion, or the latest message in the thread. It's best if all
the messages have been top-posted and I can just click my mouse (I've
programmed one button to be <Ctrl>U, for Next Unread Message) to read the
latest messages in each thread. (And it is irritating to encounter a
bottom-posted one in the thread; I have to scroll all the way to the bottom
to read it, then continue to the next message. This interrupts my rhythm
and conversational train of thought.)

There are exceptions. Some messages are written so that "Inline" comments
are the most effective. In some, I'll extract a line or two and copy it to
the top and then comment on it there. Sometimes it makes more sense to add
my comments at the bottom, so I do. But, most of the time, top-posting fits
the way I read newsgroups and reply to posts.


You see what happens, Char. When I get started, it's hard to get me to shut
up. But once I've stated my position, I seldom feel like saying it again,
over and over. So I think I'm done with this subject. I got tired of it a
decade ago. ;^}

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-9/30/10)
Windows Live Mail Version 2011 (Build 15.4.3502.0922) in Win7 Ultimate x64
SP1 RC


"Char Jackson" wrote in message

?Hi, Crash.

i don't want to get into this "Black Hole" debate, but...

All in all, a long but smooth process. ;<)

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-9/30/10)
Windows Live Mail Version 2011 (Build 15.4.3502.0922) in Win7 Ultimate x64
SP1 RC


"Dave "Crash" Dummy" wrote in message

After deciding I didn't want to install this update just yet, I hid it
for later use. Now it has disappeared. When I restore hidden
updates, it isn't there. All the other hidden updates, like language
packs, are there, but not KB976902.

R. C.

Is it safe to assume that there's no hope of your news client getting
the sig delimiter in the right place? Also, no hope of it quoting
previous text properly?

Thanks,

 

[Peter Foldes]

R.C.

Same here. Many are on my neck for the Sig Delimiter in my post. Never but never did
anyone or anybody complain about it except on this server. Been using this sig of
mine since 94 . I just tend to ignore them. As far as I am concerned it is their
newsreader that cannot handle the delimiter

--
Peter
Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
http://www.microsoft.com/protect

 

[Char Jackson]

?Hi, Char.

I've seen many of your helpful messages here and I don't want to argue with
you and others whose opinions I respect. But...

Apologies may be in order. I didn't think we were arguing. I thought I
was helping you figure out how to make your posts compatible with the
rest of Usenet, and I thought you were welcoming the suggestions. I'm
sorry if that's not the case.

I've been using OE/WM/WLM ever since OE first appeared in 1995. I don't
recall just when I started using Sigs, but it was much more than 10 years
ago. Some of the old ones in my Sent Items from 1997 show the Sig I was
using then - and it was top-posted and used the "-- " delimiter. Just about
all of the 30,000 messages in my Sent items archives used that pattern.
This thread is the first one I recall where this has been made a serious
issue.

Just to be sure we're on the same page, your sig delimiter is indeed
formatted correctly and always has been, AFAIK. The problem is that
your news client is putting the correctly formatted sig delimiter in
the wrong place. Whether you top post or bottom post, the sig and its
delimiter should be at the very bottom of the post, not somewhere in
the middle.

When it's stuffed in the middle of the post, it makes following up
more difficult because the vast majority of news clients treat the sig
delimiter as the "end of the post", meaning everything after that can
be thrown away when following up. Hopefully you can see how that is a
problem for the rest of us.

Is it because Forte Agent has a problem? WLM seems to handle it quite
easily.

Agent handles it properly, as in according to Usenet standards. It's
WLM that's messed up. I know you can't fix the lack of ">" on quoted
material or the leading question mark in every post, but another user
offered suggestions on how to fix the placement of the sig delimiter
in case you'd care to give it a try. (See below)

This new Wave 4 version of WLM does have several faults that we've been
complaining loudly about. Our gripes seem to have fallen on deaf ears, but
we keep hoping that the WLMail Team will fix some glaring problems SOON!
The failure to properly quote prior messages may be the most obvious, but
WLM's frequent interruption with a focus-stealing "error" message when there
is NO error makes it much harder to use, too. Maybe I should be exploring
other newsreaders, but I haven't looked at those since Netscape
Communicator, Pegasus, Eudora and several others in the mid-1990's. When OE
arrived in 1995, I finally could check on all my email providers with a
single dial-up phone call, which I could not do with the others, so I made
my choice and have not felt a need to change since.

Understood, and I respect your choices even though they are very
different from mine.

The top/bottom/inline/quote/snip arguments are constants in newsgroups, as
I'm sure you know. They are like religion or politics. They seldom change
opinions or behaviors on either side. I participated in the debates a few
times, but not in the last dozen or so years - and no more.

I'll state my position, just once:

Whether top-posting or bottom-posting is best depends largely on the reader,
not on the sender of the message. And the reader's preference may change
with the situation. Most of the time, I download all the new messages in a
newsgroup, then start reading them. If there are multiple new messages in a
thread, I don't want to have to re-read all the prior ones to get to the
current discussion, or the latest message in the thread. It's best if all
the messages have been top-posted and I can just click my mouse (I've
programmed one button to be <Ctrl>U, for Next Unread Message) to read the
latest messages in each thread. (And it is irritating to encounter a
bottom-posted one in the thread; I have to scroll all the way to the bottom
to read it, then continue to the next message. This interrupts my rhythm
and conversational train of thought.)

There are exceptions. Some messages are written so that "Inline" comments
are the most effective. In some, I'll extract a line or two and copy it to
the top and then comment on it there. Sometimes it makes more sense to add
my comments at the bottom, so I do. But, most of the time, top-posting fits
the way I read newsgroups and reply to posts.


You see what happens, Char. When I get started, it's hard to get me to shut
up. But once I've stated my position, I seldom feel like saying it again,
over and over. So I think I'm done with this subject. I got tired of it a
decade ago. ;^}

RC

Well, obviously, I wish you wouldn't top post, ever, but I know I
can't change your mind on that. I agree that everyone finds what works
best for them, and unfortunately you've chosen a style that conflicts
with 99% of the other posters here, but that's not the point I'm
trying to make.

I was primarily asking if you'd be willing to make the changes that
will (hopefully) place your sig delimiter and your sig at the bottom
of your posts so that others can do proper followups.

According to relic, the specific steps are as follows:
It requires two checks on the WLM Advanced Options: Reply at the
bottom and Sig at the bottom.

Even if you won't put your replies at the bottom, perhaps you can try
the option to place the sig there, (where it belongs).

 

[relic]

Apologies may be in order. I didn't think we were arguing. I thought I
was helping you figure out how to make your posts compatible with the
rest of Usenet, and I thought you were welcoming the suggestions. I'm
sorry if that's not the case.


Just to be sure we're on the same page, your sig delimiter is indeed
formatted correctly and always has been, AFAIK. The problem is that
your news client is putting the correctly formatted sig delimiter in
the wrong place. Whether you top post or bottom post, the sig and its
delimiter should be at the very bottom of the post, not somewhere in
the middle.

When it's stuffed in the middle of the post, it makes following up
more difficult because the vast majority of news clients treat the sig
delimiter as the "end of the post", meaning everything after that can
be thrown away when following up. Hopefully you can see how that is a
problem for the rest of us.


Agent handles it properly, as in according to Usenet standards. It's
WLM that's messed up. I know you can't fix the lack of ">" on quoted
material or the leading question mark in every post, but another user
offered suggestions on how to fix the placement of the sig delimiter
in case you'd care to give it a try. (See below)


Understood, and I respect your choices even though they are very
different from mine.


Well, obviously, I wish you wouldn't top post, ever, but I know I
can't change your mind on that. I agree that everyone finds what works
best for them, and unfortunately you've chosen a style that conflicts
with 99% of the other posters here, but that's not the point I'm
trying to make.

I was primarily asking if you'd be willing to make the changes that
will (hopefully) place your sig delimiter and your sig at the bottom
of your posts so that others can do proper followups.

According to relic, the specific steps are as follows:
It requires two checks on the WLM Advanced Options: Reply at the
bottom and Sig at the bottom.

Even if you won't put your replies at the bottom, perhaps you can try
the option to place the sig there, (where it belongs).

Just remember that Top Posting with a sig will cause all newsreaders that
work correctly (read: non-microsoft) to remove the sig and everything
beneath it. It makes the post even more unreadable than just top-posting
without the sig.

 

[SC Tom]

Just a test to see if my MS newsreader is still working correctly.