ISP or router?

[Evan Platt]

Evan Platt is my stalking fan club.

Evan Platt is making sure people don't follow the advice of idiots
like you.

What he just posted is NOT my writing.

Bullshit.

From: richard <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: 24hoursupport.helpdesk
Subject: Re: What does "bridge modem" mean?
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 15:10:07 -0700
Message-ID: <[email protected]>

A standard modem generally uses a regular cable line and can hook up
into your computer via USB.
A bridge modem basically connects to that other larger port that is
neither the USB port nor phone line connector.
You might look up bridge modem in the windows help and support files.

As Char Jackson also suggested the same line of troubleshooting, then why
isn't Evan attacking him?

"Usually it's the ISP and being swamped to death with traffic." -
completely wrong. How would bypassing the router show that it's the
ISP?

I do know what an ethernet connector is asswipe.

From the above post, no, you don't.

 

[richard]

Evan Platt is making sure people don't follow the advice of idiots
like you.


Bullshit.

From: richard <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: 24hoursupport.helpdesk
Subject: Re: What does "bridge modem" mean?
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 15:10:07 -0700
Message-ID: <[email protected]>

A standard modem generally uses a regular cable line and can hook up
into your computer via USB.
A bridge modem basically connects to that other larger port that is
neither the USB port nor phone line connector.
You might look up bridge modem in the windows help and support files.


"Usually it's the ISP and being swamped to death with traffic." -
completely wrong. How would bypassing the router show that it's the
ISP?


From the above post, no, you don't.

And you work with routers on a daily basis?
If the speed increases without the router, then it is most likely the cause
is the router.

I did not say it is always the fault of the ISP, or the router, I am saying
that a simple test might prove which.

 

[Char Jackson]

I'd have given you this earlier, including my ISP, but I get so tired of
people just using it as an opportunity to blast off with a rant against
A, B or C, and offering no beneficial advice.
However, that's been done already; so I can tell you it's UK Orange ISP,
Siemens Gigaset SE 572 router.
http://help.orange.co.uk/orangeuk/support/personal/242643

Thanks. I wasn't able to find a manual for that device, but I found a
link that said it was very similar to the Netgear DG834G, which does
have a manual located here:
<http://kbserver.netgear.com/pdf/dg834g_dg834gb_ref_manual_03Jun05.pdf>

Unfortunately, browsing through the Netgear manual I'm not finding any
way to disable the router portion of that device. Did I mention that I
hate combo units? This is what happens.

Everything seems ok today. I've done a line test with BT's facility;
http://www.speedtester.bt.com/

My guess is that the ISP has been imposing limits due to heavy usage.

Could very well be.

 

[jbm]

"Brian Gregory [UK]" wrote in message

You went back to BT's daft policies and high prices just to get a good
router?!?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No. I went back to BT to get a phone and broadband connection that would
actually work properly.

jim

 

[Evan Platt]

And you work with routers on a daily basis?

Yes, I do.

If the speed increases without the router, then it is most likely the cause
is the router.

If the speed increases without the router, the ISP is the cause of the
problem? Are you serious?

I did not say it is always the fault of the ISP, or the router, I am saying
that a simple test might prove which.

Removing the router will not prove the problem is with the ISP.

 

[Yousuf Khan]

Recently (ie. during the long Xmas/New Year holidays) my Net down speed
has been slowing to a crawl. I reboot the router and it usually picks up.

Now then, my guess is that my ISP is the cause. But it could be the router.

How do I decide between those two?

Ed

Well, obviously the way to decide is to run your computer directly on
the modem for a while and test it. Does it happen after a certain number
of hours, or at certain hours of the day?

If it happens after a certain number of hours while the router has been
on, then it could be the router. If it happens at certain times of the
day, then the ISP is the problem.

ISP's have been known to throttle connections, and those usually take
place at certain times of the day.

Yousuf Khan

 

[blank]

First bit of foul language I've seen on this newsgroup. Pity. Very civilised
otherwise. Killfiling.

I'm sure others would greatly appreciate that you would just

 

[Paul]

Well, obviously the way to decide is to run your computer directly on
the modem for a while and test it. Does it happen after a certain number
of hours, or at certain hours of the day?

If it happens after a certain number of hours while the router has been
on, then it could be the router. If it happens at certain times of the
day, then the ISP is the problem.

ISP's have been known to throttle connections, and those usually take
place at certain times of the day.

Yousuf Khan

The ADSL modem keeps statistics. And if you collect this kind of info,
there are people who can tell you whether your line is working right or
not, or whether your profile is too high or too low. It's just too bad
there aren't any standards, to get all the modems to do it the same way.
(The info available, even varies from one firmware release to another.)

http://img.mhilfe.de/dmt505.png

Paul

 

[blank]

The ADSL modem keeps statistics. And if you collect this kind of info,
there are people who can tell you whether your line is working right or
not, or whether your profile is too high or too low. It's just too bad
there aren't any standards, to get all the modems to do it the same way.
(The info available, even varies from one firmware release to another.)

http://img.mhilfe.de/dmt505.png

Paul

That is a very useful display Paul! Is that software available in English
and if so where from?

 

[Ed Cryer]

Speedtests often will tell you you are good, but that's only "one pipe
of the tubes". At least it tells you about connecting to the speedtest
site. Unfortunately, most of those are optimised for point A to point B.

But....
"Internet congestion" does exist and there isn't a damned thing you can
do about it on a residential line.

Holidays, tax time, big events, "backhoe fades" can all throttle overall
sense of 'net speed'.

Not long ago, the "DNS Changer" malware attack tore a new asshole on
general internet speed for days while the network centers cleared up
that mess. At least for me, known sites that took 5-20 seconds to load
would take minutes at times, and often timed out.

Yes. I appreciate what you say, and my experience tells me that it's the
ISP that's the source of the trouble.

But, earlier on I used to spend ages checking my computer, checking the
line, checking the modem logs etc. etc. The problem is that you get no
info, no feedback as to just what's happening; and so you're left with
either just waiting or doing something. I'm a "doing something" kind of
person. I find it hard to just wait in hopeful expectation.

In a situation like that people can make money from the poor innocent's
doubt; and they do. It's your line, it's your modem, it's your ISP, it's
this or that or the other. And if you have no objective way of
pinpointing the source, then that will continue.

There should be some diagnostic technique to handle it. Input slowed,
why, this will tell you. But there isn't. Huge area for exploitation.

Ed

 

[Yousuf Khan]

Notice you are UK based. Begs the question "Who is your ISP?" If it is
TalkTalk, and your ISP provided router is one of the HUAWEI range,
especially the HG532, they are notorious for slowing to a crawl after a
couple of hours of use. Rebooting, as you have, normally cures things
for a further couple of hours, and then ....... and again ..... and again.

From what I was told by one of their ops, TT no longer issue that make
of router. No explanation was given. (A read through their forums will
give you an idea why they have done that.)

In the end I found a permanent cure. Moved back to BT!! Slowest current
DL speed now 100%+ better that TT's ever fastest.

I found the same thing with most home network devices, especially
routers. They are loaded down with so many separate functions, such as
routing, switching, and wireless, that they overheat. In the end I found
that the only way I got stability was to buy at least a couple of them
and split out their functionality.

I got a Dlink router connected to the modem, doing the routing only; its
wireless is disabled. I have a separate Netgear gigabit switch doing the
Ethernet switching connected to the Dlink. And finally a Belkin router
with its routing features disabled, acting only as a wireless access
point; it's located far away from the Dlink router connected via
Powerline Ethernet. Have not suffered a mysterious slowdown since then.
These days these things are so cheap, you can afford to buy several and
split out their functionality like this.

I've needed to do this because I got a lot of separate devices
(computers and smartphones) all accessing my network. I don't think it
would've been necessary if I had just one device.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Paul]

That is a very useful display Paul! Is that software available in English
and if so where from?

http://dmt.mhilfe.de/

You could try some place like dslreports, for examples of usage.

The various "versions" on the page, aren't really versions. Each one handles
a different set of modems. You need to find your modem in the list, and get
the program that handles your modem. Then, you also have to check the firmware
revision the modem is running (helps explain why the displayed data doesn't
look like the examples).

As for how it works, I think the program uses Telnet protocol to the modem,
and accesses the modem via the modem username/password (not the ISP username/password).
If the modem is in bridged mode, it may not have an IP address as such, and
DMT wouldn't work. If the modem is in the default routed mode, then it probably
works. (These comments apply to modern modem/router devices, which are
currently all the rage. In the old days, when ADSL first started, the
modem was just a modem, there was no router, and the modem used PPPOE or
PPPOA. And chances are, with such ancient equipment, there'd be no access
to statistics. It's the fact the modern modem/router boxes are running
their own internal OS, that makes it possible to Telnet in and access
alternative info.)

I haven't tested DMT. But I may need it one of these days, because
my ADSL modem appears to have a problem on transmit. Problem is,
I run in bridged mode. I'll have to change back, before I can use it.

Paul

 

[charlie]

I found the same thing with most home network devices, especially
routers. They are loaded down with so many separate functions, such as
routing, switching, and wireless, that they overheat. In the end I found
that the only way I got stability was to buy at least a couple of them
and split out their functionality.

I got a Dlink router connected to the modem, doing the routing only; its
wireless is disabled. I have a separate Netgear gigabit switch doing the
Ethernet switching connected to the Dlink. And finally a Belkin router
with its routing features disabled, acting only as a wireless access
point; it's located far away from the Dlink router connected via
Powerline Ethernet. Have not suffered a mysterious slowdown since then.
These days these things are so cheap, you can afford to buy several and
split out their functionality like this.

I've needed to do this because I got a lot of separate devices
(computers and smartphones) all accessing my network. I don't think it
would've been necessary if I had just one device.

Yousuf Khan

The Dlink we had had a heating problem until We took it apart and added
holes to the case.

 

[Evan Platt]

And you work with routers on a daily basis?

Yes, I do.

If the speed increases without the router, then it is most likely the cause
is the router.

If the speed increases without the router, the ISP is the cause of the
problem? Are you serious?

I did not say it is always the fault of the ISP, or the router, I am saying
that a simple test might prove which.

Removing the router will not prove the problem is with the ISP.

 

[Yousuf Khan]

The Dlink we had had a heating problem until We took it apart and added
holes to the case.

True that could be a solution, except it might not be great for your
warranty.

Yousuf Khan

 

[charlie]

True that could be a solution, except it might not be great for your
warranty.

Yousuf Khan

Warranty? Long since history. After having several different routers
expire (old age), bad power supplies, obsolete and un-updateable
firmware, and new "gigabit" routers. I changed brands. It seems like the
low end consumer routers are designed to eventually fail.

 

[Rob]

Warranty? Long since history. After having several different routers
expire (old age), bad power supplies, obsolete and un-updateable
firmware, and new "gigabit" routers. I changed brands. It seems like the
low end consumer routers are designed to eventually fail.

How many consumer items nowdays have any build quality or can be repaired.

 

[Roy Smith]

How many consumer items nowdays have any build quality or can be repaired.

Not many, if there are any. Besides things can be fixed, but it's
probably cheaper just to replace it rather than fix it. YMMV


--

Roy Smith
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit
Thunderbird 9.0.1
Monday, January 09, 2012 5:33:55 PM