Is this hypocritical?

[Fire cat]

The thing everyone must understand is that we don't live in the same countries. We don't have the same laws, and many other things are different.

For example, downloading software in the Netherlands is *legal*. In France, you'll get HADOPI on your back, get internet access cut off for a year, and have to pay some ridiculous amount.

 

[Digerati]

The thing everyone must understand is that we don't live in the same countries. We don't have the same laws, and many other things are different.

downloading software in the Netherlands is *legal*.

Huh? No! That is incorrect. It seems obvious you have not been following this thread. Netherlands is member of the United Nations. Therefore, it is NOT legal to steal copyrighted materials in the Netherlands. And make no mistake, illegal copying of copyrighted materials is stealing.

I note too, the Netherlands is a member country of the EU and as such, has agreed to mutually respect the intellectual property rights of all EU citizens. And while the UN adopted the guidelines of WIPO and the Berne Convention, I note that the Netherlands was an original signing party to the Berne Convention as seen here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_copyright_law. And note here (http://www.iusmentis.com/copyright/nl/mp3/mp3legal/) where it says,

the maker of a work must grant permission before his work may be distributed over the Internet.

Therefore, it is absolutely NOT TRUE that downloading of copyrighted materials, without the permission of the copyright owner, is legal in the Netherlands.

 

[shantelleno1]

BTW, it doesn't matter what the consensus believes, what matters is the actual laws on the books, at least until the masses go out and get the laws changed.

That's kind of my point. Just because everyone thinks it is legal, doesn't actually make it so. As to the changing of the laws, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. Protection is put in place for a reason. We should respect that.

Shantelle.

 

[Digerati]

As to the changing of the laws, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one

The laws are already on the books - we (voters) just need to push our elected officials to fund law enforcement resources to enforce them.

It is critical to realize (or be reminded) that pirated software is a MAJOR source of malware. There is really no good that can come out of allowing it.

• Like shoplifting, it raises the costs for everyone,
• It is frequently infected, jeopardizing the security of the user (thief!) and/or,
• It is frequently infected turning the machine into a zombie used by badguys in bot armies and spam machines then used to attack the rest of us or in DDoS attacks,
• Users, afraid of being caught, frequently do not keep their systems patched and updated, thus, again, becoming a security risk to themselves, other computers on their networks, and to the rest of us on the Internet.

 

[TrainableMan]

Digerati, only the one post was about pirated software and I don't think anyone is arguing that should be made legal. It is the second post about the legality of creating a back-up copy of your own personal legally purchased DVD to 1. another DVD or 2. ripping it to the computer and 3. whether it is legal to sell, buy, or own software to accomplish these tasks, that is in question. I believe the laws should be changed to allow all 3 of these things.

Related side note: It might also be mentioned that many DVD movies currently come with a digital copy to put on your computer so consider buying DVDs with that added bonus.

 

[Digerati]

only the one post was about pirated software

That's not true. Please read back through the 3 pages and you will see there are several comments about downloading software (to include songs, videos, and programs) and comments that copying is legal, and that this country or that country does not have laws. "Piracy" encompasses the whole gambit of illegal copying - it is not just about the guy on the street corner with a stack of copied Windows DVDs selling for $5.

As I noted before, the laws are already there. You ARE allowed to make backup copies for your own personal use. You are allowed to copy YOUR music CD to play on YOUR iPod. But you are not allowed to give away or sell copies.

Laws generally don't allow. They prohibit. And there are laws and UN agreements that prohibit illegal copies and protect intellectual properties. If a country is a member country of the UN, they do not have to have specific laws on their own books.

 

[TrainableMan]

That's not true. Please read back through the 3 pages

I try to stick to the original posters question and she compared two threads, one on pirated windows and another on a person who wants to copy his DVD movies to his harddrive. I understand, now, you are speaking more generally about all the posts here. (I said posts when I meant threads, I wasn't meaning the posts in THIS thread)

As I noted before, the laws are already there. You ARE allowed to make backup copies for your own personal use. You are allowed to copy YOUR music CD to play on YOUR iPod. But you are not allowed to give away or sell copies.

Understood, but the original article was about DVD movies and since they have encryption your rights to a copy are curbed by the laws against selling software that can decrypt them

Laws generally don't allow. They prohibit. And there are laws and UN agreements that prohibit illegal copies and protect intellectual properties.

I never said write NEW laws to Allow; I said CHANGE. Repeal existing laws prohibiting or add provisions to exclude ... (and in this case specifically I'm thinking the) decrypting your own personal copies to be used by you while you own the original and the creation and distribution of software to accomplish such.

 

[Digerati]

It seems the topic has drifted a bit off course in several places with the subjects of using illegal copies and making legitimate copies for personal use getting confused or bundled together. There are distinctions that I was trying to ensure everyone understood.

And note I never said you said we need NEW laws. I am saying there are existing laws already out there. They don't even need to be changed. They just need to be enforced.

 

[Digerati]

I might add that what we also need is education, not new or changed laws. Folks often just don't know that what they are doing is illegal (or not). Or, in the case of downloading software - specifically via P2P sites and torrents, these practices are particularly dangerous as badguys use these venues to distribute malware and significantly, to release new malware. This is particularly dangerous as new malware often is not detectable because the anti-malware community has yet to create signature/definition files for them and therefore our anti-malware programs are ineffective against them.

So there are two issues, stealing and security. Stealing is a moral issue that each person needs to address personally. And if that were all there was to it, I would not be so vocal. But the other issue, security, is what my biggest concern is. Because illegal software is a known primary source of malware, and because malware is such a serious risk to all of us and our families (like drunk driving and second-hand smoke) I take a strong stand against it.

 

[Nibiru2012]

I am marking this thread closed as it appears all the arguments pro vs con have been made.

Thanks to everyone for their valuable input!

~Nibs