Imaging a Windows 7 HD

[Gene E. Bloch]

On 19/12/2011 2:00 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
On 19/12/2011 1:08 PM, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 19/12/2011 14:48, Char Jackson wrote:
[...]

I've thought about doing separate images for the D: drive
(restoration partition) and for the System + C: drive partitions.
But I
am uncertain as to how I would get these two completely separate
images
onto a single new disk so that it would appear to be exactly the
same as
the original disk it was replacing. There is no problem if it is
just a
single image of D: + System + C:, of course.


Er, in Windows, the system partition is always C:. If you dual boot,
each OS sees its own system partition as C:, and the other one's as
D: (or E: whatever).


In Windows 7 by default, there is a separate system partition that is
not given a drive letter. My Windows 7 system is currently running
Windows 8 developer preview so I can't say for sure, but in Windows 8
it is called "System Reserved", and is listed as System, Active,
Primary Partition. The C: partition is listed as Boot, Page File,
Crash Dump, Primary Partition.


Not on this machine, on which I installed Win7 on its own physical disk.

Well, he did say "by default".

It may be that what you see is a partition created by the computer's
manufacturer to enable system repair/maintenance tasks that bypass
Windows or don't use its utilities.

No, it's the default configuration you see when you install to a bare
drive, I believe. If you don't have it, it's because you didn't use
the defaults.

Or, but I did. it was a bare drive, and I just let the W7 installer do its
thing. The only choice I exercised was to partition the disk. There's no
unmarked partition on any of the three drives in this box.

It's a puzzlement.

NB: this was an OEM version of Win7 Pro 64 bit, not a retail version. Maybe
that's the difference. (As a builder of my own computers, I guess I count as
an OEM. ;-o )

Wolf K.

I posted my contradictory reply almost simultaneously with yours.
Oddly, I also have an OEM version of Wind 7 Pro 64-bit.

Looks like we *do* have to concede that it's a puzzlement

 

[Paul]

On 19/12/2011 2:00 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
On 19/12/2011 1:08 PM, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 19/12/2011 14:48, Char Jackson wrote:
[...]

I've thought about doing separate images for the D: drive
(restoration partition) and for the System + C: drive partitions.
But I
am uncertain as to how I would get these two completely separate
images
onto a single new disk so that it would appear to be exactly the
same as
the original disk it was replacing. There is no problem if it is
just a
single image of D: + System + C:, of course.


Er, in Windows, the system partition is always C:. If you dual boot,
each OS sees its own system partition as C:, and the other one's as
D: (or E: whatever).


In Windows 7 by default, there is a separate system partition that is
not given a drive letter. My Windows 7 system is currently running
Windows 8 developer preview so I can't say for sure, but in Windows 8
it is called "System Reserved", and is listed as System, Active,
Primary Partition. The C: partition is listed as Boot, Page File,
Crash Dump, Primary Partition.


Not on this machine, on which I installed Win7 on its own physical disk.

Well, he did say "by default".

It may be that what you see is a partition created by the computer's
manufacturer to enable system repair/maintenance tasks that bypass
Windows or don't use its utilities.

No, it's the default configuration you see when you install to a bare
drive, I believe. If you don't have it, it's because you didn't use
the defaults.

Or, but I did. it was a bare drive, and I just let the W7 installer do
its thing. The only choice I exercised was to partition the disk.
There's no unmarked partition on any of the three drives in this box.

It's a puzzlement.

NB: this was an OEM version of Win7 Pro 64 bit, not a retail version.
Maybe that's the difference. (As a builder of my own computers, I guess
I count as an OEM. ;-o )

Wolf K.

I've seen a reference to the two partition scheme being needed to
support BitLocker (encryption). If you want to use BitLocker,
the SYSTEM RESERVED stays unencrypted, while the entire C: can
then be encrypted. If you did an install without a SYSTEM RESERVED,
then you couldn't enable BitLocker for all of C:. Something like
that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitlocker

"In order for BitLocker to operate, the hard disk requires at least
two NTFS-formatted volumes: one for the operating system (usually C
and another with a minimum size of 100 MB[12] from which the operating
system boots. BitLocker requires the boot volume to remain unencrypted
- on Windows Vista this volume must be assigned a drive letter, while
on Windows 7 it does not."

BitLocker isn't supported on all versions of Windows 7, but since a
user could buy an "anytime upgrade" for the OS, they can use the
two partition install scheme, to be ready for a user upgrade.

Gentoo (Linux) does something similar, has two partitions, but I don't know
if it is for the same reason. In that case, the small partition is not mounted
while the OS is running. I wouldn't mind so much, if somewhere in their
install instructions, they made some reference to why they were doing it.
You can certainly change it to a single partition install, without
too much trouble.

Paul

 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

On 19/12/2011 2:00 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
On 19/12/2011 1:08 PM, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 19/12/2011 14:48, Char Jackson wrote:
[...]

I've thought about doing separate images for the D: drive
(restoration partition) and for the System + C: drive
partitions.
But I
am uncertain as to how I would get these two completely
separate
images
onto a single new disk so that it would appear to be exactly
the
same as
the original disk it was replacing. There is no problem if it
is
just a
single image of D: + System + C:, of course.


Er, in Windows, the system partition is always C:. If you dual
boot,
each OS sees its own system partition as C:, and the other one's
as
D: (or E: whatever).


In Windows 7 by default, there is a separate system partition
that is
not given a drive letter. My Windows 7 system is currently
running
Windows 8 developer preview so I can't say for sure, but in
Windows 8
it is called "System Reserved", and is listed as System, Active,
Primary Partition. The C: partition is listed as Boot, Page
File,
Crash Dump, Primary Partition.


Not on this machine, on which I installed Win7 on its own physical
disk.

Well, he did say "by default".

It may be that what you see is a partition created by the
computer's
manufacturer to enable system repair/maintenance tasks that bypass
Windows or don't use its utilities.

No, it's the default configuration you see when you install to a
bare
drive, I believe. If you don't have it, it's because you didn't use
the defaults.

Or, but I did. it was a bare drive, and I just let the W7 installer
do its thing. The only choice I exercised was to partition the disk.

And that is exactly why you don't have the system reserved partition -
you didn't let the W7 installer do it's thing, you started it off on a
pre-defined path. Had you started with a truly bare drive and told
the installer to have at it, you would have ended up with a different
result - that is, an additional system reserved partition.

There's no unmarked partition on any of the three drives in this
box.

It's a puzzlement.

Nope, no puzzlement, it is the expected behavior as I explain above.

NB: this was an OEM version of Win7 Pro 64 bit, not a retail
version. Maybe that's the difference. (As a builder of my own
computers, I guess I count as an OEM. ;-o )

The OEM version behaves the same way as the retail version, it matters
not.

--
Zaphod

Pan-Galactic Gargle Blaster: A cocktail based on Janx Spirit.
The effect of one is like having your brain smashed out
by a slice of lemon wrapped round a large gold brick.

 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

On 19/12/2011 2:00 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
On 19/12/2011 1:08 PM, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 19/12/2011 14:48, Char Jackson wrote:
[...]

I've thought about doing separate images for the D: drive
(restoration partition) and for the System + C: drive
partitions.
But I
am uncertain as to how I would get these two completely
separate
images
onto a single new disk so that it would appear to be exactly
the
same as
the original disk it was replacing. There is no problem if it
is
just a
single image of D: + System + C:, of course.


Er, in Windows, the system partition is always C:. If you dual
boot,
each OS sees its own system partition as C:, and the other
one's as
D: (or E: whatever).


In Windows 7 by default, there is a separate system partition
that is
not given a drive letter. My Windows 7 system is currently
running
Windows 8 developer preview so I can't say for sure, but in
Windows 8
it is called "System Reserved", and is listed as System, Active,
Primary Partition. The C: partition is listed as Boot, Page
File,
Crash Dump, Primary Partition.


Not on this machine, on which I installed Win7 on its own
physical disk.

Well, he did say "by default".

It may be that what you see is a partition created by the
computer's
manufacturer to enable system repair/maintenance tasks that
bypass
Windows or don't use its utilities.

No, it's the default configuration you see when you install to a
bare
drive, I believe. If you don't have it, it's because you didn't
use
the defaults.

Or, but I did. it was a bare drive, and I just let the W7 installer
do its thing. The only choice I exercised was to partition the
disk. There's no unmarked partition on any of the three drives in
this box.

It's a puzzlement.

NB: this was an OEM version of Win7 Pro 64 bit, not a retail
version. Maybe that's the difference. (As a builder of my own
computers, I guess I count as an OEM. ;-o )

Wolf K.

I posted my contradictory reply almost simultaneously with yours.
Oddly, I also have an OEM version of Wind 7 Pro 64-bit.

Looks like we *do* have to concede that it's a puzzlement

Actually no, I explain it in my reply to Wolf K.'s post above.

 

[Wolf K]

Zaphod:
And that is exactly why you don't have the system reserved partition -
you didn't let the W7 installer do it's thing, you started it off on a
pre-defined path. Had you started with a truly bare drive and told
the installer to have at it, you would have ended up with a different
result - that is, an additional system reserved partition.

Ah, I see. Interesting concept.

Next question: what precisely is the point of the "system reserved"
partition? I can think of several uses.

Thanks,
Wolf K.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

On 19/12/2011 9:06 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On 19/12/2011 2:00 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
On 19/12/2011 1:08 PM, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 19/12/2011 14:48, Char Jackson wrote:
[...]

I've thought about doing separate images for the D: drive
(restoration partition) and for the System + C: drive partitions.
But I
am uncertain as to how I would get these two completely separate
images
onto a single new disk so that it would appear to be exactly the
same as
the original disk it was replacing. There is no problem if it is
just a
single image of D: + System + C:, of course.


Er, in Windows, the system partition is always C:. If you dual boot,
each OS sees its own system partition as C:, and the other one's as
D: (or E: whatever).


In Windows 7 by default, there is a separate system partition that is
not given a drive letter. My Windows 7 system is currently running
Windows 8 developer preview so I can't say for sure, but in Windows 8
it is called "System Reserved", and is listed as System, Active,
Primary Partition. The C: partition is listed as Boot, Page File,
Crash Dump, Primary Partition.


Not on this machine, on which I installed Win7 on its own physical disk.

Well, he did say "by default".

It may be that what you see is a partition created by the computer's
manufacturer to enable system repair/maintenance tasks that bypass
Windows or don't use its utilities.

No, it's the default configuration you see when you install to a bare
drive, I believe. If you don't have it, it's because you didn't use
the defaults.

Or, but I did. it was a bare drive, and I just let the W7 installer do its
thing. The only choice I exercised was to partition the disk. There's no
unmarked partition on any of the three drives in this box.

It's a puzzlement.

NB: this was an OEM version of Win7 Pro 64 bit, not a retail version.
Maybe that's the difference. (As a builder of my own computers, I guess I
count as an OEM. ;-o )

Wolf K.

I posted my contradictory reply almost simultaneously with yours. Oddly, I
also have an OEM version of Wind 7 Pro 64-bit.

Looks like we *do* have to concede that it's a puzzlement

Actually no, I explain it in my reply to Wolf K.'s post above.

Ah yes - he partitioned it ahead of time. Thanks for the guidance, I
had missed that (or at least the implication of it).

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

I wrote:

Ah, I see. Interesting concept.

Next question: what precisely is the point of the "system reserved"
partition? I can think of several uses.

Thanks,
Wolf K.

I can't recall the details now, partly because I never fully understood
it, but it's been discussed a few times in this NG.

In essence the boot process starts with the System Reserved partition,
which then continues the process on the Boot partition, where the
System resides.

You can see why it is a tad confusing.

Others will hopefully jump into the fray to clarify what I wrote.

 

[Char Jackson]

I can't recall the details now, partly because I never fully understood
it, but it's been discussed a few times in this NG.

In essence the boot process starts with the System Reserved partition,
which then continues the process on the Boot partition, where the
System resides.

You can see why it is a tad confusing.

Others will hopefully jump into the fray to clarify what I wrote.

I think that's correct.

R.C. White has previously done a nice job of explaining it in detail
in this newsgroup, if the OP has a way to search for it.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 13:42:02 -0800, Gene E. Bloch

I think that's correct.

R.C. White has previously done a nice job of explaining it in detail
in this newsgroup, if the OP has a way to search for it.

Thanks - I had forgotten who had posted that info, or I would have
mentioned it and given credit.

 

[...winston]

"Zaphod Beeblebrox" wrote in message In Windows 7 by default, there is a separate system partition that is
not given a drive letter. My Windows 7 system is currently running
Windows 8 developer preview so I can't say for sure, but in Windows 8
it is called "System Reserved", and is listed as System, Active,
Primary Partition. The C: partition is listed as Boot, Page File,
Crash Dump, Primary Partition.

--
Zaphod



Yes that is correct. It's also the same for 7 or 8.
The method of clean installing has a bearing on the presence or lack of the
System Reserved.
Terminology, reasons for its presence/creation and how to avoid it, and
implications on BitLocker are explained here.
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/gg441289.aspx

 

[...winston]

Char Jackson wrote
Gene E. Block wrote

Thanks - I had forgotten who had posted that info, or I would have
mentioned it and given credit.

Fyi...to echo RC's thorough explanation...

The method of clean installing has a bearing on the presence or lack of the
System Reserved.
- Terminology, reasons for its presence/creation, how to create/avoid it,
and
implications on BitLocker are explained here.
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/gg441289.aspx

 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Ah, I see. Interesting concept.

Indeed, it certainly is. Took me a bit to figure out how to prevent
the system reserved partition when I started developing Windows 7
system images for our company, we need the partition structure to be
defined in a specific way to support a legacy product and will never
use bitlocker so it had to be killed.

Next question: what precisely is the point of the "system reserved"
partition? I can think of several uses.

As I understand it, it is only needed to support bitlocker. Others
have posted details and links, so I'll not muddy the waters further.

 

[Jeff Layman]

Char Jackson wrote

Gene E. Block wrote


Fyi...to echo RC's thorough explanation...

The method of clean installing has a bearing on the presence or lack of the
System Reserved.
- Terminology, reasons for its presence/creation, how to create/avoid it,
and
implications on BitLocker are explained here.
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/gg441289.aspx

So if it's required for the boot process, does that mean that it is also
required for the restoration partition to run?

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Gene E. Block wrote

How did you manage to misspell my name?

Do you not believe that I actually know how to spell *my own name*?

 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

How did you manage to misspell my name?

Do you not believe that I actually know how to spell *my own name*?

Hah! Too funny - though you know, he has to manually fix quotes since
he uses WLM, and from some of his other posts he's not the greatest
typist out there (neither am I for that matter, but it does explain
some things...)

Love the riposte, btw.

 

[Nil]

How did you manage to misspell my name?

Do you not believe that I actually know how to spell *my own name*?

You can fairly blame it on WLM 2011.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

alt.windows7.general:

You can fairly blame it on WLM 2011.

(This is for Zaphod as well.)

To be fair (radical idea!), I will mention that some spell checkers,
such as the ones in MesNews and Dialog[1], catch "errors" -
unrecognized words - in the "Nil posted" part of the reply.

A careless poster might accept the suggested respelling.

And of course, it gave me an excuse to be 'clever'...

[1] Come to think of it, Thunderbird does it too, but I only use that
for e-mail.

 

[Nil]

To be fair (radical idea!), I will mention that some spell
checkers, such as the ones in MesNews and Dialog[1], catch
"errors" - unrecognized words - in the "Nil posted" part of the
reply.

A careless poster might accept the suggested respelling.

And of course, it gave me an excuse to be 'clever'...

[1] Come to think of it, Thunderbird does it too, but I only use
that for e-mail.

I use Aspell with Xnews, and it doesn't object to "Bloch" in the
attribution line. It ignores everything in the quoted material. I
didn't manually add that word, so it must be compiled into its standard
dictionary.

In this case, I assumed the OP manually typed your name in, introducing
the spelling error, since I know that WLM won't write an attribution
line.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

alt.windows7.general:

To be fair (radical idea!), I will mention that some spell
checkers, such as the ones in MesNews and Dialog[1], catch
"errors" - unrecognized words - in the "Nil posted" part of the
reply.

A careless poster might accept the suggested respelling.

And of course, it gave me an excuse to be 'clever'...

[1] Come to think of it, Thunderbird does it too, but I only use
that for e-mail.

I use Aspell with Xnews, and it doesn't object to "Bloch" in the
attribution line. It ignores everything in the quoted material. I
didn't manually add that word, so it must be compiled into its standard
dictionary.

In this case, I assumed the OP manually typed your name in, introducing
the spelling error, since I know that WLM won't write an attribution
line.

Oh, good!...now I can reassign blame to ...weinstein!

 

[...winston]

"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message How did you manage to misspell my name?
Do you not believe that I actually know how to spell *my own name*?[/QUOTE]


Nil's correct. Error in typing, apologies.

Other misspelling's aside (intended, derogatory or not in a subsequent post
<g>) take a look at the link I provided in addition to RC's earlier
explanations..the two combined provide more than sufficient information to
understand (and future reference) the Windows 7 System/Boot partitions or
the applicable disk volume, System Reserved purpose, how to avoid etc.) than
previously provided throughout this thread.

Since you cropped the link, it and another are included below.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/gg441289.aspx
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314470
or if an aversion to MSFT articles...see this for an extended explanation
and available options.
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/gg441289.aspx

Separately, I do agree with your comments in another thread (on dual booting
'Pure' Win7 and XP) that a VM may be a better option for many still wishing
to keep XP around and even more so with new Win7 systems where additional
hoops may be necessary to clean install XP as the first o/s on new hardware
where XP drivers (HD controller, Network, etc.) may have limited
availability.