Disk Partitioning

[choro]

No.

Why don't you tell him that the image will not only be bootable but also
will make the tea or coffee for him to sip while it is getting on with
the job.

God, I know a rude joke about a wooden spoon but I won't say it here. It
is too rude!

 

[...winston]

I still like partitions on Win7 and Win8 (2 on each drive in addition to
each with its own unique System Volume/Reserved)
I label mine with a disk and partition prefix to ensure they line up in the
correct order in Disk Management.
Internal Sata disk (1TB and 2TB respectively)
D0_P1 W7P, D0_P2 Files and D1_P1 W8P, D1_P2 Files

2 External Drives (1TB each, eSata and USB3)
Ex1_D0 BU and Ex2_D1 BU where each Ex#_D# contains respective Acronis images
of the corresponding internal D# partitions including each respective System
Reserved.

The 1TB's are WD-Black drives, the 2TB is a Seagate
Both D0 and D1 P1's are booting o/s (each with its own unique System
Reserved Volume) by keystroke invoking the Asus Bios/UEFI drive selection
boot menu.

Switching over from a mixture of approx 18 yrs of IDE and Sata multibooting
took some time to think it through to maintain some partition-approach
comfort (one for o/s, one for files with better folder mgmt.) while
eliminating my previous partitioning approach (quagmire)

The above desktop system is an Asus Z87 Sabertooth Mobo running an i7-4770
chip housed in an Antec P183-V3 Case.



--
....winston
msft mvp consumer apps

"R. C. White" wrote in message

Hi, Steve.

Back in 1999 I bought a new computer and the biggest hard disk available
was 8 Gig.

Me, too. And that's about when I started multi-partitioning. I was still
running Win95 when I bought my son a student software bundle that included
WinNT4.0. With much work and experimentation, I learned how to install NT
and dual-boot it with Win95. But NT could not read FAT32, and Win95
couldn't handle NTFS. Both could use FAT(16) partitions, but those could
not be bigger than 2 GB. My new IBM HDD was 9 GB - theoretically - but
after converting sectors, tracks, cylinders, etc., and translating hex to
decimal numbers, there were 4 partitions of 2 GB each, plus about 800 MB
left over. I first created a small primary partition with that 800 MB,
formatted it FAT(16), marked it Active and made it my System Partition.
Then I made an Extended Partition holding 8 GB and created four 2 GB logical
drives in it. The System Partition was Drive C:, Win95's Boot Volume was
Drive D:, Drive E: became Data, Drive F: was for Miscellaneous and Drive G:
was Archives. WinNT's Boot Volume shared the FAT Drive C: with the startup
files, including Boot.ini.

There have been MANY changes over the 15 or so years since then, both in my
hardware and software AND in the capabilities of Windows versions. Each new
HDD was much larger than the one before, and since I had already learned
about Disk Management and partitioning, rather than discard the outgrown
HDD, I just bought a longer cable and added the new disk. (At the moment, I
have 4 internal SATA drives, 200 GB to 1 TB each), 1 external 3 TB USB 3.0,
plus a 180 GB SSD. No, I don't need all that space, but I have it so...
<g>) In 2002, MSFT gave me the MVP Award and invited me to participate in
the beta for Longhorn, which became Vista.

We went through more than a half-dozen successive builds of the OS beta;
each required us to install the new version from scratch, into a separate
partition, and each came in both 32-bit and 64-bit versions. By changing
Boot.ini, we could specify which Disk(#) and Partition(#) to install each
OS. Windows did not require "drive" letters, but we humans are not comfy
without them, so I had pretty soon used up almost all the 26 letters
available. That's when I learned to also assign LABELS to each partition,
so that Vista32 remained Vista32 even when it moved from Drive V: to Drive
X: and its Boot Folder became X:\Windows. At one time, I was
"octo-booting": Boot.ini offered me the choice of 8 versions of Windows
XP/Vista/32/64/NT at each reboot! Thankfully, I'm down to a couple of
choices now and seldom boot anything other than 64-bit Win8.

But THAT was a productive use of multiple partitions. SOME of my data had
to be migrated each time a new OS was installed, but most of the time, only
the current Boot Volume needed to be deleted and recreated to install the
new OS, while all my Data (photos, documents, Quicken records, etc.)
remained untouched on good ol' Drive E:. (Yes, that drive letter has stuck
with me ever since Win95/NT.)

Of course, most of this is of little or no interest to most users, who never
get involved in multiple OSes - but many of us in newsgroups like this DO
get into such adventures. To lump us all together in discussing how, why
and whether to use multiple partitions is to overlook the real world
differences between us.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2012 (Build 16.4.3508.0205) in Win8 Pro


"Steve Hayes" wrote in message

Primarily a waste of time and effort. Makes successful restoration from
backups less likely. All the registry and user info for the
installations remains on the C: drive anyway.

I generally agree but sometimes partitioning makes sense.

Back in 1999 I bought a new computer and the biggest hard disk available was
8
Gig.

When bigger drives became available I got a 40 Gig one, and partioned it
into
D, E, F, and G drives -- back then it was Fat 32, and making it all one
partition would have wasted a bit of space because it would have required a
bigger cluster size. My plan was to use D to back up C, E for programs, F
for
games (I didn't want the kids installing them in my working disk space) and
G
for data.

I installed programs on E because there wasn't enough space on C.

And I've carried the same configuration over ever since, because I don't
like
reinstalling programs -- much too time-consuming.

When I bought a new computer, I bought it without an OS. I just backed up
each
partition on Acronis, and restored it on the new computer's 500 Gig drives.
Everything worked.

 

[Steve Hayes]

Of course, most of this is of little or no interest to most users, who never
get involved in multiple OSes - but many of us in newsgroups like this DO
get into such adventures. To lump us all together in discussing how, why
and whether to use multiple partitions is to overlook the real world
differences between us.

I found it quite interesting, nevertheless.

I made several attempts to install Linux on my D: drive, but most of them did
not work, and the latest one, which did work, is not recognised as D: by
Windows.

Since my Drive 0 is now 500 Gigs rather than 8, I thought there was enough
room on it to repartition it, and create a D: drive there which I use only for
photos.

After I repartitioned it, however the GRUB loader was confused, and would not
load either OS.

I nearly panicked, then popped in the Lunux (Fedora) DVD, and thought to
reinstall it. I calmed my fears by simply putting on the Grub thingy, after
which everything worked again.

So my sysem of drive letters is historical, based on hardware and the space
available at the time I bought it. And others may have a different history,
and so different needs.

I know that a program installed on the E drive keeps its registry on the C
drive, but when I restore it from Acronis on a completely new disk with a
different partition size, it still manages to find it.

 

[Steve Hayes]

partition to the very tippy top so you finish up having to try to balance
where you put stuff. Some programs like compression programs require free
space.
Anyway, cluster size argument no longer applies and even it did, hd's are
so huge and inexpensive who would care.

Yes, but at the time I set up my system the huge (and quite expensive) 8 Gig
HD filled up quite quickly, and at that time cluster size did make a
difference.

So even though cluster size doesn't matter now, and I have plenty of space, I
still keep the same arrangement and designation for partitions so that I don't
have to fiddle with my batch files and have them do unexpected things.

 

[Steve Hayes]

Ed Cryer has written on 9/16/2013 3:26 PM:

So the image is smaller than the partition?

I just checked.

My C: drive has 50,1 Gb used of 115.

On the Acronis backups (I have four of them) they range in size from 37-38 Gb

 

[Steve Hayes]

I must admit you've got a point there. But is it worth all the bother
of having to restore one or several (!!!) just to be able to pick up the
right earlier version of a file?

Why not then use a much simpler method. Like I am editing a book right
now which is, as you might imagine pretty important and critical work.
Thus I have XXX.doc. Follow up files are named XXX_Edit-01.doc,
Edit-02.doc, Edit-03.doc. You must agree this is a far more elegant
solution than having to go to all the bother of recovering something
from not one but several images.

With image backups, you can usually chose between incremental or full backup.

I usually choose full.

 

[Steve Hayes]

Are you trying to be funny or are you just plain daft? Every time you
save a file onto another directory, it saves a pristine copy of it in
that new directory. It has not been saved upteen times like some
original copies of the original file where in subsequent saves the file
is saved in increments recording just the alterations to the file.

That would surely depend on the disk you are saving it to.

If it is a newly-formatted CD or DVD, yes, it would be as you say.

But if it is a hard disk with the empty space already fragmented, then the
copied file would be fragmented too.

 

[Steve Hayes]

XXCOPY is not in either system as standard - you have to download it
from xxcopy.com and install it.


It can do, if you use the Clone command. That makes a copy of Source in
Destination - including deleting any existing files in Destination which
are not in Source.

What I used to do with DR DOS was type XDEL *.TMP and it could then remove TMP
files from subdirectories, etc.

 

[Steve Hayes]

Or you could put the commands into a batch file and run that.

That's what I do when I want to back up my data files to a newly formatted
DVD, like this:

All I do is type "dataworm"

@echo off
cls
C:
cd \
ECHO Backing up data files to DVD-RW
ECHO Make sure blank FORMATTED DVD-RW disc is in DVD Writer drive
ECHO Press Enter to continue or Ctrl-C to quit
ECHO This is COMPLETE backup, for initialising new disk
PAUSE
ECHO Backing up askSam files
E:
cd \asksam
move *.bak f:\tempback
move *.tmp f:\tempback
move *.sav f:\tempback
cd \
XCOPY E:\ASKSAM\*.* H:\ASKSAM\ /E /Y
ECHO Backing up Inmagic files
E:
cd \inmagic
move *.bak f:\tempback
move *.tmp f:\tempback
cd \
XCOPY E:\INMAGIC\*.* H:\INMAGIC\ /E /Y
ECHO Backing up HTML files
E:
cd \html
move *.bak f:\tempback
move *.tmp f:\tempback
cd \
XCOPY E:\HTML\*.* H:\HTML\ /E /Y
ECHO Backing up Family History System files
E:
cd \family
move *.bak f:\tempback
move *.tmp f:\tempback
cd \
XCOPY E:\FAMILY\*.* H:\FAMILY\ /E /Y
ECHO Backing up Legacy files
e:
cd \Legacy
move *.bak f:\tempback
move *.tmp f:\tempback
cd \
XCOPY E:\Legacy\*.* H:\Legacy\ /E /Y
ECHO Backing up Orthodox mission book
g:
cd \ORTHMISS
cd \
XCOPY g:\ORTHMISS\*.* H:\ORTHMISS\ /E /Y
ECHO Backing up Neighbourhood Watch Inmagic files
g:
cd \NWATCH
cd \
XCOPY G:\NWATCH\*.* H:\NWATCH\ /E /Y
ECHO Backing up "Steve's My Documents" folder
ECHO Moving backup files
g:
cd \stevedoc
move *.wbk f:\tempback
move *.bak F:\tempback
XCOPY G:\SteveDoc\*.* H:\STEVEDOC\ /E /Y
ECHO Backing up Batch files
c:
cd \BELFRY
xdel *.bak /s /n
xdel *.tmp /s /n
cd \
XCOPY C:\BELFRY\*.* H:\BELFRY\ /E /Y
ECHO Backing up Client files
XCOPY E:\CLIENT\*.* H:\CLIENT\ /E /Y
ECHO Backing up Missionalia abstracts
g:
cd \MISSABST
xdel *.bak /s /n
xdel *.tmp /s /n
xdel *.sav /s /n
cd \
XCOPY G:\MISSABST\*.* H:\MISSABST\ /E /Y
ECHO Backing up Text files
g:
cd \textfile
xdel *.bak /s /n
xdel *.tmp /s /n
xdel *.sav /s /n
cd \
XCOPY G:\textfile\*.* H:\Textfile\ /E /Y
ECHO Logging backup
H:
cd \
FU LOG g:\textfile\log\usage.log Backed up changed data files to DVD RW
FU LOG H:\BACKREC.TXT Backed up changed datafiles reset archive bit
DIR >> H:\BACKREC.TXT
ECHO Backup finished!
PAUSE
DIR

 

[choro]

That would surely depend on the disk you are saving it to.

If it is a newly-formatted CD or DVD, yes, it would be as you say.

But if it is a hard disk with the empty space already fragmented, then the
copied file would be fragmented too.

You have a point there but certainly it would not be as fragmented as a
file saved 50 times with minor alterations.

 

[Ed Cryer]

I've got ShadowProtect, which also does all of those things, plus
allowing me to add a file to a mounted image, automatically take
incrementals so I never have to think about backing up, and so on.
Although only a home user, a tool like this is worth its weight in gold.
I guess you'd agree.

Maybe, depending on computer usage.
Say you were keeping customer records, sales details etc. and they were
updated hourly. Then my technique would be useless.
Say, however, that you were like me and you used your computers just for
browsing, email, games. Then it's ideal.

Ed

 

[Ed Cryer]

There are only two reasons, both major, one obvious, one already
explained upthread.

1. The unused sectors (allocation blocks) on the source drive are not
copied into the image.

2. Most imaging programs compress the resulting file.

I'll add a 3. One of the reasons I like Paragon is that it ignores
paging and hibernation files; and these can be vast with today's normal
RAM sizes.

Ed

 

[Ed Cryer]

Ed Cryer has written on 9/16/2013 5:17 PM:

So if you restored it to a new HD, would you end up with a 1GB
partition? Would you have to have that partition in place before you did
the restore? What's the difference between a Paragon image and a Windows
image?

Excuse me for a typo. Replace "1GB " with "1TB". The other sizes are ok.

Both Paragon and Windows come with their own restore disks.
The worst case scenario is sudden total HD failure; boom followed by
clatter-clatter.
To get up and running I'd have to do this;
1. Take out old HD, put in new one (unformatted even).
2. Boot from restore disk.
3. Restore from chosen image on USB HD.

The resulting HD will be as it was when imaged.
If I restored to an existing HD then ditto, the resulting HD ............

Ed

 

[John]

Have you searched for Cloroux?

Truthfully, no. Dettol works fine. For those stubborn stains, Vanish
and Bang are good. Sainsbury's own brand sludges are also cool. I
stick with whatever the wife bought. Unless I see something bright and
shiny that promises power, social elevation and success with hot
chicks I normally wouldn't even be ignored by.[1] I only actively
search for new stuff if the old stuff stops killing bugs, or starts
killing me's. ["Mes"? What *is* the plural of "me" and why the hell
would anyone *want* one? Two?]

That's humor/humour, even if it's not actually funny.

Humour is a funny thing. If you have to emphasise that something is
it probably won't be. Humour relies on spontaneity, which is why
comedians rehearse so much.
J.

[1] Hot chicks who would normally not even notice me enough to ignore
me make up about 100% of breathing ladies on this planet.[2] That I
could spray myself with a manly stinkie and suddenly become a magnet
for their affections strikes me as about as likely as me becoming the
thirteenth human to walk on the Moon. Maybe less likely. No, certainly
less likely.

[2] I don't know about the unbreathing ones nor about those on other
planets. Those ones don't cross my path very often. Well, if they do
they don't tell me they have. Maybe they, too, are ignoring me.

 

[FromTheRafters]

What I used to do with DR DOS was type XDEL *.TMP and it could then remove TMP
files from subdirectories, etc.

I used BOOTSECT to backup and restore bootsector code.

 

[choro]

The images cover all the recovery I could want.
1. They can be mounted as virtual drives; and then I can pick off any
file I like.

Man, why mount drives unless, of course, you can't mount sirens?

My friend the retired professor prefers to mount redheads!

 

[Ed Cryer]

Man, why mount drives unless, of course, you can't mount sirens?

My friend the retired professor prefers to mount redheads!

Is he a Lib Dem?

Ed

 

[Ken Blake]

With image backups, you can usually chose between incremental or full backup.

I usually choose full.

I am generally against incremental backup. It backs up only those
things that need to be backed up, and that's good.

But what's bad is that if you restore from it, you get back files
you've deleted. That may not always be a problem, but it can be.

 

[choro]

Is he a Lib Dem?

Ed

How should I know? He hasn't even lived in the UK in donkey's years. But
he is a goner on redheads!

 

[Ed Cryer]

How should I know? He hasn't even lived in the UK in donkey's years. But
he is a goner on redheads!

Virile male seeks friend; female, redhead, 36-24-36 figure, nubile &
seductive, no more than 30; for active togetherness.

Ed