B
Bob Henson
It will be a very long time, unless you run Windows 8 RT.
--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, UK
If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything. — Mark Twain
--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, UK
If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything. — Mark Twain
B
Bob Henson
I can see no advantages at all, and many disadvantages. Metro is aWhen this new Windows 8 is released, is there any advantages to upgrading from
Windows 7 Professional? I've heard that it has a lot of bells and whistles for
portable devices or some such. I never pay attention to that stuff because the
only portable devies I have are a Sony Walkman, which I load mp3;s directly to
from my desktop, an Android tablet and an Android phone. So is there any benefit
to "upgrading" to Windows 8 in the future? Thanks.
silly, cumbersome, badly planned interface for toy computers, but you
can't remove it, only bypass it. As a consequence I can't see any
enterprise users giving it office room - for that matter, very few home
users either. I can't find anything that Windows 8 does that Windows 7
doesn't so far, and since there are a few things it doesn't do that
Windows 7 did, it's a none starter, as far as I can see. I forecast lean
times ahead for Microsoft - get rid of your shares now, before Windows 8
hits the streets (assuming they don't abandon it before the release date).
--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, UK
Licentiae, quam stulti libertatem vocabant - Tacitus
J
Jeff Layman
Well, it makes sense for new features to be in a new place, but anyYeah right.
So you own a car for ten years, then buy a brand new one. Do you expect
it to look and behave like one ten years old? On that logic we would
still be driving around in Austin 7 look-alikes....
retained features, which haven't been upgraded or changed, should stay
where they were. They should also operate in the same way.
Why move the lighting stalk from one side of the steering wheel to the
other, and similar with the wiper control, if neither operation changes
in a new model? If the A/C control is on the bottom centre of central
console, why change it to top right? If a 3-speed fan operates by
turning clockwise to increase speed, why change it to anticlockwise?
Those are the sort of changes that MS make when redesigning an OS. Note
the word "redesign" - not "enhance", "upgrade", or "improve". It's
great if any of those three happen along with the redesign, but it's
rarely true. Google "Quartic steering wheel"...
I often believe that for MS (and many others - they don't have a
monopoly in this area) there is a large poster on the walls of their
design department which states "It's your job to make it a triumph of
design over function. Go to it!".
E
Ed Cryer
Win8 is fantastic at gobbling up any other OS it finds. I don't thinkBob said:I can see no advantages at all, and many disadvantages. Metro is a
silly, cumbersome, badly planned interface for toy computers, but you
can't remove it, only bypass it. As a consequence I can't see any
enterprise users giving it office room - for that matter, very few home
users either. I can't find anything that Windows 8 does that Windows 7
doesn't so far, and since there are a few things it doesn't do that
Windows 7 did, it's a none starter, as far as I can see. I forecast lean
times ahead for Microsoft - get rid of your shares now, before Windows 8
hits the streets (assuming they don't abandon it before the release date).
Win7 does anything comparable!
I had a dual boot where Win8 completely hid Win7. It took me ages to get
it back.
I've got the same set-up now on a spare machine. They're both still
there, but Win8 set the dirty bit on the Win7 partition so that at boot
it ran a disk scan. I've unset the dirty bit and it boots fine again.
But for how long?
This is great fun for a retired computer programmer. It's better than
playing the role games; even Napoleonic warfare!
I'm learning lots, and it will be productive knowledge to pass on to
other people and help them with their problems.
Ed
S
Steve Hayes
Of course not.So you own a car for ten years, then buy a brand new one. Do you expect
it to look and behave like one ten years old? On that logic we would
still be driving around in Austin 7 look-alikes....
I expect the fuel gauge to show me how hot the coolant is, the temperature
gauge to show me the speed, and the rev counter (which shows how much fuel is
left) to be hidden behind the folding arm rest between the rear seats, along
with the handbrake.
Driving is no fun if all the controls and gauges do what you expect them to.
F
FD
I delayed purchasing a tablet until I knew more about Windows 8.When this new Windows 8 is released, is there any advantages to upgrading from
Windows 7 Professional? I've heard that it has a lot of bells and whistles for
portable devices or some such. I never pay attention to that stuff because the
only portable devies I have are a Sony Walkman, which I load mp3;s directly to
from my desktop, an Android tablet and an Android phone. So is there any benefit
to "upgrading" to Windows 8 in the future? Thanks.
After trying the Preview on an esata drive I decided that I might as well go ahead
and buy an Android tablet.
I bought 2 Samsung tablets - one for my wife! I also use Samsung Note as my
main smart phone. With stylus it meets my need for replacement for windows
pocket PC I used in the past.
In my office we still have a few dos programs which work fine with 32 bit windows 7
in a window.
If this 32 bit option is removed from future Windows then those dos programs will have to
be replaced. I am however a medical professional aged 70 and will be quitting all
medical work in 5 years.
FD
P
(PeteCresswell)
Per Gordon:
Likewise the emergency brake and ditto the turn signal and a
number of other features unless there is some arguable benefit
from moving them.
Given that XP has a control panel item called 'Add/Remove
Programs', I would want to hear a reason why it is changed to
another name under Windows 7 and moved to a different place in
the hierarchy.
OS's aren't personal automobiles and corporations with tens of
thousands of employees lose significant amounts of money when
everybody has take time away from their normal duties to figure
out where the furniture's been moved to.
At the MS Office application level, I've had bond traders tell me
"If this change involves me having to deal with Excel 2010
instead of the one I have now, just forget it." They're
willing to accept new functionality if it helps them do their
job... but just moving things around? They're on a fast-moving
treadmill as it is - living and dying by thousandths of a percent
return - and they don't need or want to have to take time to deal
with gratuitous changes.
I expect the gas pedal and brake to be in the same place on both.Yeah right.
So you own a car for ten years, then buy a brand new one. Do you expect
it to look and behave like one ten years old? On that logic we would
still be driving around in Austin 7 look-alikes....
Likewise the emergency brake and ditto the turn signal and a
number of other features unless there is some arguable benefit
from moving them.
Given that XP has a control panel item called 'Add/Remove
Programs', I would want to hear a reason why it is changed to
another name under Windows 7 and moved to a different place in
the hierarchy.
OS's aren't personal automobiles and corporations with tens of
thousands of employees lose significant amounts of money when
everybody has take time away from their normal duties to figure
out where the furniture's been moved to.
At the MS Office application level, I've had bond traders tell me
"If this change involves me having to deal with Excel 2010
instead of the one I have now, just forget it." They're
willing to accept new functionality if it helps them do their
job... but just moving things around? They're on a fast-moving
treadmill as it is - living and dying by thousandths of a percent
return - and they don't need or want to have to take time to deal
with gratuitous changes.
C
Char Jackson
Since you mentioned the emergency brake, it's interesting to point outPer Gordon:
I expect the gas pedal and brake to be in the same place on both.
Likewise the emergency brake and ditto the turn signal and a
number of other features unless there is some arguable benefit
from moving them.
that it's been much more of a parking brake for nearly all of its life
than ever being an emergency brake. In addition, it's disappearing
from some new cars and may be on the way out. Personally, I haven't
used a parking brake (except once when playing in the snow - it allows
fantastic skids) in at least 25-30 years, so I wouldn't miss it.
It's still called "Add or Remove Programs". Isn't that close enough toGiven that XP has a control panel item called 'Add/Remove
Programs', I would want to hear a reason why it is changed to
another name under Windows 7 and moved to a different place in
the hierarchy.
remove all doubt? As for where things like Control Panel applets are
located, you don't really need to know, anymore. I wasn't a big fan at
first, but I've grown to embrace 7's ability to find things as I type
the first few letters. In this case, I type "add rem" after clicking
the Start orb and there it is, right at the top of the list.
P
Paul
You can run a guest OS in a virtual machine, if you needFD said:I delayed purchasing a tablet until I knew more about Windows 8.
After trying the Preview on an esata drive I decided that I might as
well go ahead
and buy an Android tablet.
I bought 2 Samsung tablets - one for my wife! I also use Samsung Note
as my
main smart phone. With stylus it meets my need for replacement for windows
pocket PC I used in the past.
In my office we still have a few dos programs which work fine with 32
bit windows 7
in a window.
If this 32 bit option is removed from future Windows then those dos
programs will have to
be replaced. I am however a medical professional aged 70 and will be
quitting all
medical work in 5 years.
FD
older characteristics in an OS. I have a whole bunch of
guest OSes loaded in virtual machines, for all occasions.
Even Solaris is loaded in there, but the networking doesn't
work (which makes that virtual machine, dead).
VirtualBox is just one example. There are lots to choose from.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_platform_virtual_machines
Paul
K
Ken Blake
When a new OS is released, people always hate it
A giant overstatement! *Some* people hate it. And of those that hate
it, they *sometimes* do, with *some* new operating systems.
As an example of what I mean, I have never hated a new version of
Windows, and have almost always liked it better than its predecessor.
I'm not yet sure how I feel about Windows 8. So far I've only seen
pre-release versions of it, and I have mixed feelings about it. And I
don't yet know what differences there will be in the released
versions, nor all of what third-party programs will be available to
let me configure it to the way I will want it. Nor which, if any, of
the apps I run that are important to me will run under Windows 8.
When it's released, I'll probably run it in a virtual machine, and try
running under it all the apps that are important to me. Depending on
how that works out, I'll decide whether I will want to replace Windows
7 with it.
But even if I don't switch to Windows 8 soon after release, almost
certainly I will at some time in the future.
but in time they get used to it
Again, true of many people, but far from all.
and come to like it more than previous OS's.
Once again, true of many people, but far from all. Many people still
prefer previous versions of Windows to Windows 7.
For example,
when XP was first released, people hated it and kept using Windows 98SE
and Windows NT 4. Now it seems they can't live without XP!!! Even
Windows 7 was hated by many and now they love it.
Yes, I agree with that last sentence. But that's the first time you
said "many people" instead of "people" (which implies *all* people).
G
Gene Wirchenko
Nope. I have seen OS releases that I liked, but they were notWhen a new OS is released, people always hate it but in time they get
trying to obsolete useful things and cram the changes down our
throats.
The pain does not throb quite so much.used to it and come to like it more than previous OS's. For example,
As far as liking, not necessarily.
I generally like XP. My main system is an XP box. It works verywhen XP was first released, people hated it and kept using Windows 98SE
and Windows NT 4. Now it seems they can't live without XP!!! Even
well for me. Of course, I got rid of the Windows Fisher-Price theme
and went with Windows Classic; it is much easier on my eyes.
What about Vista?Windows 7 was hated by many and now they love it.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
K
Ken Blake
Since you mentioned the emergency brake, it's interesting to point out
that it's been much more of a parking brake for nearly all of its life
than ever being an emergency brake. In addition, it's disappearing
from some new cars and may be on the way out. Personally, I haven't
used a parking brake (except once when playing in the snow - it allows
fantastic skids) in at least 25-30 years, so I wouldn't miss it.
I'm far from an expert on cars, but the manuals in my Toyotas tell me
I should use it, at least once in a while, because doing so adjusts
the regular brakes. So although I don't use it for normal parking, I
try to remember to set and unset it at least every now and then.
Is that true for all cars or just my Toyotas?
It's still called "Add or Remove Programs".
No, it's called "Programs and Features." And like Pete Cresswell, I
think Microsoft's having changed its name was a bad mistake. In my
view, with very rare exceptions, almost all names (whether of computer
things or anything else) should remain the same. Changing names
confuses people.
G
Gene Wirchenko
On Mon, 2 Jul 2012 07:17:45 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
[snip]
support would be even more difficult than it is.
What about a licence for Windows that lets you use any comparable
-- meaning server, workstation, et al -- version up to the one that
you bought the licence for?
A classic already exists, and so it is "old". Some people can
not handle that well.
everything, and some things will not be worth it for them to do. Third
party developers can help the situation.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
[snip]
It would need debugging for the inevitable tiny differences, andThey really ought, by now, have started including some command - or
clickable icon - that made each new version look _and behave_ like the
previous one, as a matter of course. Sure, they offer (do they still, or
support would be even more difficult than it is.
What about a licence for Windows that lets you use any comparable
-- meaning server, workstation, et al -- version up to the one that
you bought the licence for?
Not insulting. Look up the word.did that stop with XP?) offer "Classic Mode", but (a) that's almost
entirely just an appearance skin, and (b) the name is insulting.
A classic already exists, and so it is "old". Some people can
not handle that well.
They originator of the software is not going to think ofThere is a third party utility I use with Office 2010 that gives me the
old (pre-ribbon, i. e. 2003) interface, which has most things where I
know where to find them, illogical though that may be - and yet still
gives me access to all the new features (except the colour palette!). It
irritates me that it has to be a third party solution, though.
everything, and some things will not be worth it for them to do. Third
party developers can help the situation.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
G
Gene Wirchenko
Pretty much. I do not expect basic interface items to move.
There was a while where the problem I had with renting cars was
remembering to check which side the gas cap was on. This is useful
information to have when pulling into a gas station. Now, cars that I
have been renting have an icon indicating this on the gas gauge. This
is a useful improvement.
loosen my grip on the steering wheel, let it come back on its own,
then grip it again. That works safely, because my hand stays steady.
With a quartic steering wheel, my hand would be getting shoved about.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
There was a while where the problem I had with renting cars was
remembering to check which side the gas cap was on. This is useful
information to have when pulling into a gas station. Now, cars that I
have been renting have an icon indicating this on the gas gauge. This
is a useful improvement.
Yikes! That could be a hazard for me. When I complete a turn, IWell, it makes sense for new features to be in a new place, but any
retained features, which haven't been upgraded or changed, should stay
where they were. They should also operate in the same way.
Why move the lighting stalk from one side of the steering wheel to the
other, and similar with the wiper control, if neither operation changes
in a new model? If the A/C control is on the bottom centre of central
console, why change it to top right? If a 3-speed fan operates by
turning clockwise to increase speed, why change it to anticlockwise?
Those are the sort of changes that MS make when redesigning an OS. Note
the word "redesign" - not "enhance", "upgrade", or "improve". It's
great if any of those three happen along with the redesign, but it's
rarely true. Google "Quartic steering wheel"...
loosen my grip on the steering wheel, let it come back on its own,
then grip it again. That works safely, because my hand stays steady.
With a quartic steering wheel, my hand would be getting shoved about.
If they are even particularly aware of the point.I often believe that for MS (and many others - they don't have a
monopoly in this area) there is a large poster on the walls of their
design department which states "It's your job to make it a triumph of
design over function. Go to it!".
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
R
R. C. White
Hi, Char.
gets the page titled:
Control Panel\Programs\Programs and Features
In Win7, the official title is "Programs and Features", not "Add or Remove
Programs". And when we click Start } Control Panel, "Programs and Features"
is what we must select.
Why? Only Microsoft knows. ;^{
the Parking Brake - and that's what many of us still call it. It was the
"hand brake" because it was a tall lever in a very convenient location,
usually on the floorboard near the gear shift "stick" for fast, easy -
emergency! - access. Like you, I seldom use the parking brake (usually a
foot pedal these days); the Park position for the automatic transmission
works well, with or without the brake, by either name. But I need it when
checking the ATF level, which is supposed to be done with the transmission
in D (Drive) - with the parking brake firmly set.
RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2011 (Build 15.4.3555.0308) in Win7 Ultimate x64 SP1
"Char Jackson" wrote in message
that it's been much more of a parking brake for nearly all of its life
than ever being an emergency brake. In addition, it's disappearing
from some new cars and may be on the way out. Personally, I haven't
used a parking brake (except once when playing in the snow - it allows
fantastic skids) in at least 25-30 years, so I wouldn't miss it.
remove all doubt? As for where things like Control Panel applets are
located, you don't really need to know, anymore. I wasn't a big fan at
first, but I've grown to embrace 7's ability to find things as I type
the first few letters. In this case, I type "add rem" after clicking
the Start orb and there it is, right at the top of the list.
Yes, Start | "add rem" does display as the top suggestion in Win7, but thatIn this case, I type "add rem" after clicking the Start orb and there it
is, right at the top of the list.
gets the page titled:
Control Panel\Programs\Programs and Features
In Win7, the official title is "Programs and Features", not "Add or Remove
Programs". And when we click Start } Control Panel, "Programs and Features"
is what we must select.
Why? Only Microsoft knows. ;^{
The hand brake on cars was the Emergency Brake for decades before it becameSince you mentioned the emergency brake, it's interesting to point out
that it's been much more of a parking brake for nearly all of its life
than ever being an emergency brake. In addition, it's disappearing...
the Parking Brake - and that's what many of us still call it. It was the
"hand brake" because it was a tall lever in a very convenient location,
usually on the floorboard near the gear shift "stick" for fast, easy -
emergency! - access. Like you, I seldom use the parking brake (usually a
foot pedal these days); the Park position for the automatic transmission
works well, with or without the brake, by either name. But I need it when
checking the ATF level, which is supposed to be done with the transmission
in D (Drive) - with the parking brake firmly set.
RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2011 (Build 15.4.3555.0308) in Win7 Ultimate x64 SP1
"Char Jackson" wrote in message
Since you mentioned the emergency brake, it's interesting to point outPer Gordon:
I expect the gas pedal and brake to be in the same place on both.
Likewise the emergency brake and ditto the turn signal and a
number of other features unless there is some arguable benefit
from moving them.
that it's been much more of a parking brake for nearly all of its life
than ever being an emergency brake. In addition, it's disappearing
from some new cars and may be on the way out. Personally, I haven't
used a parking brake (except once when playing in the snow - it allows
fantastic skids) in at least 25-30 years, so I wouldn't miss it.
It's still called "Add or Remove Programs". Isn't that close enough toGiven that XP has a control panel item called 'Add/Remove
Programs', I would want to hear a reason why it is changed to
another name under Windows 7 and moved to a different place in
the hierarchy.
remove all doubt? As for where things like Control Panel applets are
located, you don't really need to know, anymore. I wasn't a big fan at
first, but I've grown to embrace 7's ability to find things as I type
the first few letters. In this case, I type "add rem" after clicking
the Start orb and there it is, right at the top of the list.
G
Gene Wirchenko
[snip]
I switch between XP and 7, and the differences make it awkward.
In XP, I do a lot of things by muscle memory. That is much less
distracting and much faster than having to consciously think about it.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
You might not need to know, but I do.It's still called "Add or Remove Programs". Isn't that close enough to
remove all doubt? As for where things like Control Panel applets are
located, you don't really need to know, anymore. I wasn't a big fan at
first, but I've grown to embrace 7's ability to find things as I type
the first few letters. In this case, I type "add rem" after clicking
the Start orb and there it is, right at the top of the list.
I switch between XP and 7, and the differences make it awkward.
In XP, I do a lot of things by muscle memory. That is much less
distracting and much faster than having to consciously think about it.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
M
mechanic
Sooner or later those Enterprise Edition evaluation periods will runSooner or later you'll have to upgrade (to Windows 8 or its
successor) because you'll want support for hardware or software
that you can't get in 7, but don't rush it.
out then we'll need to switch to something else. In the meantime
these previews of W8 are giving us a good idea of how it will run;
even on my 6+ year old machine it runs fine. Looks a lot better than
Win7 too, although there is some polishing still to do.
M
mechanic
No in W7 it's called 'Programs and Features'.It's still called "Add or Remove Programs".
M
mechanic
How did you manage to loose Win7 Ed? On my machine they both workI had a dual boot where Win8 completely hid Win7. It took me ages
to get it back.
side-by-side except that there's a problem with permissions if I try
to open a file on the Win7 partition from Win8.
E
Ed Cryer
Same disk?mechanic said:How did you manage to loose Win7 Ed? On my machine they both work
side-by-side except that there's a problem with permissions if I try
to open a file on the Win7 partition from Win8.
There's a whole heap of threads in the archives of this group for the
problem, about 8 months ago with the earliest Preview. Some good people
helped me through, and we had a roaring success. It started when I did
just what you mention; access the Win7 partition from Win8.
The latest one (setting dirty bit) happened after a Win8 Maintenance run.
Ed
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