A question about 32-bit apps running in 64-bit WIndows 7

[Zootal]

Out of curiosity, is this a complete virtual system emulating XP? Or
sort of a hopped-up "XP compatible" mode extending the XP
compatibility that is already there?

John B.

It is Windows XP in a pre-configured virtual machine running in Windows
Virtual PC. It works very well - you don't have to deal with installing XP
in the vm yourself, etc. You don't need to know how to set up a virtual
machine or anything like that. It is designed to be used by people that
don't even know how to install Windows. Try it, it's great.

 

[John]

It's not a compatibility mode. It's a virtual machine running XP.

Does it require the virtual capability to be built into the CPU, as
some types of virtual systems do, or does it run on any type of CPU?

Another question: I don't run Windows very much but I do have a couple
of programs that require it and so have some of the machines with dual
boot capability. Two specific navigation applications gave trouble
with Win 7, but setting Preference -> Compatibility to "run with XP"
seemed to solve the problems.

Can you give me an example of applications that won't run with
"Compatibility set to XP" and require the virtual system?

I ask, not to start any arguments, but because I had thought I had a
fool proof system and if there are applications that I might use that
won't run on what I have I should probably need to think of changing
something.

I do have Virtual Desk and Wine running on several machines and, so
far, I have been to run everything I want to on either one of those
two systems or by setting the Preference.

John B.

 

[John]

It is Windows XP in a pre-configured virtual machine running in Windows
Virtual PC. It works very well - you don't have to deal with installing XP
in the vm yourself, etc. You don't need to know how to set up a virtual
machine or anything like that. It is designed to be used by people that
don't even know how to install Windows. Try it, it's great.

How does it work - is it like Virtual Desk, for instance, and in
appearance just another application running on Windows, or does it
require a re-boot and takes over the computer?

Wine, for example, allows you to install a Windows application on a
non-Windows operating system and simply by clicking on an icon the
application runs. To the user it appears as though the application is
native to the operating system.

John B.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Does it require the virtual capability to be built into the CPU, as
some types of virtual systems do, or does it run on any type of CPU?

Another question: I don't run Windows very much but I do have a couple
of programs that require it and so have some of the machines with dual
boot capability. Two specific navigation applications gave trouble
with Win 7, but setting Preference -> Compatibility to "run with XP"
seemed to solve the problems.

Can you give me an example of applications that won't run with
"Compatibility set to XP" and require the virtual system?

I ask, not to start any arguments, but because I had thought I had a
fool proof system and if there are applications that I might use that
won't run on what I have I should probably need to think of changing
something.

I do have Virtual Desk and Wine running on several machines and, so
far, I have been to run everything I want to on either one of those
two systems or by setting the Preference.

John B.

I have home audio/video remote control devices that can be programmed on a
computer. Their software needs a Windows XP VM to work. The problem seems
to be USB drivers - maybe. I can't get the devices to connect in Vista -
but see the note.

Note: that was under Windows Vista. My switch to 7 was an upgrade, and I
haven't tried to see if they will work in 7 - I just kept the VM as is.

So: close, but maybe no cigar

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

How does it work - is it like Virtual Desk, for instance, and in
appearance just another application running on Windows, or does it
require a re-boot and takes over the computer?

Just another app running under Windows, like VMware and Sun VirtualBox.
Also, Parallels and VMware run the same way on the Mac.

Very convenient, IMO.

 

[Zootal]

How does it work - is it like Virtual Desk, for instance, and in
appearance just another application running on Windows, or does it
require a re-boot and takes over the computer?

Wine, for example, allows you to install a Windows application on a
non-Windows operating system and simply by clicking on an icon the
application runs. To the user it appears as though the application is
native to the operating system.

John B.

Are you familiar with remote desktops, where you can control another
computer? Or pcAnywhere, or VNC? A window appears on your desktop, and
you see the entire desktop of the other computer inside of it. This is
the same thing - you see a window on your desktop, and inside of it is
the entire Windows XP desktop - start menu, task bar, everything. It is
as if you are looking at the monitor of another computer, and it is
inside of a windows on your desktop.

If you know what you are doing, you can set this up with Windows 2000 or
any other version of Windows, linux, solaris, os/2, etc. Virtual machines
are very handy. I have one with Windows 2000 installed. When I run it, it
is as if I had another computer sitting on my desk, and I see it's
desktop in a window on my desktop.

I prefer VirtualBox (www.virtualbox.org) as Microsoft Virtual PC tends to
blue screen my computer from time to time. VirtualBox is rock solid. I
used to telecommute from my home. I used VirtualBox with Win2000 running
inside of it, and from Win2000 I ran a VPN and over that I used remote
desktop to control my work computer, which was 100 miles away. I did this
all day long - it worked well, was robust, and absolutely rock solid. And
I could do this from Linux - I didn't even need Windows for this, as
VirtualBox runs under Linux just as well as it runs under Windows. You
run linux, you run VirtualBox from Linux, and you run Win2000 inside of
the VirtualBox VM (does any of this make sense?).

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Are you familiar with remote desktops, where you can control another
computer? Or pcAnywhere, or VNC? A window appears on your desktop, and
you see the entire desktop of the other computer inside of it. This is
the same thing - you see a window on your desktop, and inside of it is
the entire Windows XP desktop - start menu, task bar, everything. It is
as if you are looking at the monitor of another computer, and it is
inside of a windows on your desktop.

If you know what you are doing, you can set this up with Windows 2000 or
any other version of Windows, linux, solaris, os/2, etc. Virtual machines
are very handy. I have one with Windows 2000 installed. When I run it, it
is as if I had another computer sitting on my desk, and I see it's
desktop in a window on my desktop.

I prefer VirtualBox (www.virtualbox.org) as Microsoft Virtual PC tends to
blue screen my computer from time to time. VirtualBox is rock solid. I
used to telecommute from my home. I used VirtualBox with Win2000 running
inside of it, and from Win2000 I ran a VPN and over that I used remote
desktop to control my work computer, which was 100 miles away. I did this
all day long - it worked well, was robust, and absolutely rock solid. And
I could do this from Linux - I didn't even need Windows for this, as
VirtualBox runs under Linux just as well as it runs under Windows. You
run linux, you run VirtualBox from Linux, and you run Win2000 inside of
the VirtualBox VM (does any of this make sense?).

I think you had a better idea than I did about what John's question was

You gave a nice description - as good as a screen shot, IMO

 

[Paul Richards]

As far as I can see from the MSoft web site, it is not possible to
install Virtual PC without first installing Windows 7 XP mode. Am I
correct in this deduction?

If I don't have any XP or other Windows apps which don't run under W7
must I use another VM e.g, Virtual Box, VMWare if I want to host
another OS, thus avoiding installing XP mode?

Thanks

 

[Seth]

As far as I can see from the MSoft web site, it is not possible to
install Virtual PC without first installing Windows 7 XP mode. Am I
correct in this deduction?

If I don't have any XP or other Windows apps which don't run under W7
must I use another VM e.g, Virtual Box, VMWare if I want to host
another OS, thus avoiding installing XP mode?

You can use whatever VM Hosting software you want. This one is just easy,
pre-configured and free (for those with the appropriate level of Windows 7).

To get "XP-Mode" using a different VM Hosting platform, legally, you have to
have a licensed copy of XP. The Windows 7 XP-Mode comes with that license
included.

 

[John]

Are you familiar with remote desktops, where you can control another
computer? Or pcAnywhere, or VNC? A window appears on your desktop, and
you see the entire desktop of the other computer inside of it. This is
the same thing - you see a window on your desktop, and inside of it is
the entire Windows XP desktop - start menu, task bar, everything. It is
as if you are looking at the monitor of another computer, and it is
inside of a windows on your desktop.

If you know what you are doing, you can set this up with Windows 2000 or
any other version of Windows, linux, solaris, os/2, etc. Virtual machines
are very handy. I have one with Windows 2000 installed. When I run it, it
is as if I had another computer sitting on my desk, and I see it's
desktop in a window on my desktop.

I prefer VirtualBox (www.virtualbox.org) as Microsoft Virtual PC tends to
blue screen my computer from time to time. VirtualBox is rock solid. I
used to telecommute from my home. I used VirtualBox with Win2000 running
inside of it, and from Win2000 I ran a VPN and over that I used remote
desktop to control my work computer, which was 100 miles away. I did this
all day long - it worked well, was robust, and absolutely rock solid. And
I could do this from Linux - I didn't even need Windows for this, as
VirtualBox runs under Linux just as well as it runs under Windows. You
run linux, you run VirtualBox from Linux, and you run Win2000 inside of
the VirtualBox VM (does any of this make sense?).

So it is essentially just another virtual system. I say "just another"
but actually I am aware that there really is quite a difference in the
various virtual systems.

At present I use wine to run what few Windows applications I still use
- Forte Agent is about the last of the applications that I use
frequently. I tinker about with a The Windows 7 system, it is kind of
pretty, but really only use it for "work" as a navigation system for
the boat. I rather like to have a bit of redundancy in that department


Talking about to "remote desktops" almost 20 years ago we installed a
custom accounting system for at company in Jakarta, Indonesia. The guy
doing the software maintenance was located in Los Vegas, Nevada.

John B.

 

[John]

I have home audio/video remote control devices that can be programmed on a
computer. Their software needs a Windows XP VM to work. The problem seems
to be USB drivers - maybe. I can't get the devices to connect in Vista -
but see the note.

Note: that was under Windows Vista. My switch to 7 was an upgrade, and I
haven't tried to see if they will work in 7 - I just kept the VM as is.

So: close, but maybe no cigar

I had tried Visa, with out much success, and when Windows 7 became
available I wanted to try it as the initial reports indicated that it
was a lot better. But, I really didn't want to mess up one of my
"work" machines so I installed it on one of the grand kids game
machine. Figured that if it bombed I could always con them into
believing that it was the computer, not grandpa. Anyway, to make a
long story short, the thing has run every thing I've thrown at it.

I had some minor problems with a RS232 -> USB adapter but found a Win
7 driver on the Net with about 10 minutes of searching and everything
else has run. Spore and Grand Theft Auto (or whatever it's called) and
the other games we've tried all run. If one's only experience was Visa
Win 7 would certainly look like a miracle.


John B.

 

[Zootal]

So it is essentially just another virtual system. I say "just another"
but actually I am aware that there really is quite a difference in the
various virtual systems.

Exactly. It is nothing more then just another virtual system. What makes it
stand out of the crowd is that it comes preconfigured with Windows XP Pro -
all setup and install work is done for yout.

At present I use wine to run what few Windows applications I still use
- Forte Agent is about the last of the applications that I use
frequently. I tinker about with a The Windows 7 system, it is kind of
pretty, but really only use it for "work" as a navigation system for
the boat. I rather like to have a bit of redundancy in that department

I run Steam and a bunch of games. It's about the only reason I keep Windows
around as everything else I do can be done from Linux. Maybe Microsoft
should thank the game makers for keeping them in business?

Talking about to "remote desktops" almost 20 years ago we installed a
custom accounting system for at company in Jakarta, Indonesia. The guy
doing the software maintenance was located in Los Vegas, Nevada.

pcAnywhere? dialup modem? Twenty years ago we used 9600 (or was it 14,400?)
modems via pcAnywhere to do remote maintenance. It worked quite well, since
we weren't using Windows back then.

 

[Paul Richards]

You can use whatever VM Hosting software you want. This one is just
easy, pre-configured and free (for those with the appropriate level
of Windows 7).

To get "XP-Mode" using a different VM Hosting platform, legally, you
have to have a licensed copy of XP. The Windows 7 XP-Mode comes with
that license included.

I realise that I can use whatever VM I want. My question was whether I
HAVE to install XP mode when I only want Virtual PC.

 

[Zootal]

I realise that I can use whatever VM I want. My question was whether I
HAVE to install XP mode when I only want Virtual PC.

I tried to install Virtual PC 2004, and it told me it was "blocked due to
compatibility issues". I dug up Virtual PC 2007 and tried to install it.
Installed just fine. It did not, however run when I tried - "this program
is blocked due to compatibility issues". It then directed me to Microsoft
Virtual PC 2007 SP1. Download, install. Run. Same problem - "this program
is blocked due to compatibility issues". "Virtual PC 2007 SP1 is not
supported on this version of Windows...".

Looks like Microsoft hard coded a kill switch somewhere to prevent it us
from running it under Windows 7.

So, to answer your question - you can not run Microsoft Virtual PC on
Windows 7. You can download "Windows Virtual PC" by itself, without Windows
XP Mode, but I don't if it would run - I already have XP Mode installed and
can't test it. I would guess no, you don't have to install XP mode, but
that is only a guess and I could be wrong...anyone else here try it without
XP mode?

 

[Seth]

I realise that I can use whatever VM I want. My question was whether I
HAVE to install XP mode when I only want Virtual PC.

I haven't tried MS Virtual PC under Windows 7 by itself as I was never that
fond of their VM desktop product. On the desktop I use VMWare Server which
is a free product. On my server for production use I also use VMWare but at
home in my lab I have 3 MS Hyper-V hosts.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

I had tried Visa, with out much success, and when Windows 7 became
available I wanted to try it as the initial reports indicated that it
was a lot better. But, I really didn't want to mess up one of my
"work" machines so I installed it on one of the grand kids game
machine. Figured that if it bombed I could always con them into
believing that it was the computer, not grandpa. Anyway, to make a
long story short, the thing has run every thing I've thrown at it.

I had some minor problems with a RS232 -> USB adapter but found a Win
7 driver on the Net with about 10 minutes of searching and everything
else has run. Spore and Grand Theft Auto (or whatever it's called) and
the other games we've tried all run. If one's only experience was Visa
Win 7 would certainly look like a miracle.


John B.

I keep meaning to try the problem programs (one at a time!) on Win 7, but
so far, Mr. Procrastination wins

 

[John]

Exactly. It is nothing more then just another virtual system. What makes it
stand out of the crowd is that it comes preconfigured with Windows XP Pro -
all setup and install work is done for yout.



I run Steam and a bunch of games. It's about the only reason I keep Windows
around as everything else I do can be done from Linux. Maybe Microsoft
should thank the game makers for keeping them in business?



pcAnywhere? dialup modem? Twenty years ago we used 9600 (or was it 14,400?)
modems via pcAnywhere to do remote maintenance. It worked quite well, since
we weren't using Windows back then.

It was about 20 years ago and I don't remember what the guy was using,
other then it was a dial in system, probably at 9600 baud. Certainly
it wasn't the Internet or Windows.

John B.

 

[Paul Richards]

to >> > install Virtual PC without first installing Windows 7 XP
mode. Am I >> > correct in this deduction?
under >> > W7 must I use another VM e.g, Virtual Box, VMWare if I
want to host >> > another OS, thus avoiding installing XP mode?
you >> have to have a licensed copy of XP. The Windows 7 XP-Mode
comes with >> that license included.

I tried to install Virtual PC 2004, and it told me it was "blocked
due to compatibility issues". I dug up Virtual PC 2007 and tried to
install it. Installed just fine. It did not, however run when I
tried - "this program is blocked due to compatibility issues". It
then directed me to Microsoft Virtual PC 2007 SP1. Download, install.
Run. Same problem - "this program is blocked due to compatibility
issues". "Virtual PC 2007 SP1 is not supported on this version of
Windows...".

Looks like Microsoft hard coded a kill switch somewhere to prevent it
us from running it under Windows 7.

So, to answer your question - you can not run Microsoft Virtual PC on
Windows 7. You can download "Windows Virtual PC" by itself, without
Windows XP Mode, but I don't if it would run - I already have XP Mode
installed and can't test it. I would guess no, you don't have to
install XP mode, but that is only a guess and I could be
wrong...anyone else here try it without XP mode?

Zootal: Thanks, that seems pretty conclusive.

 

[Char Jackson]

I keep meaning to try the problem programs (one at a time!) on Win 7, but
so far, Mr. Procrastination wins

It's like I have a twin!

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

It's like I have a twin!

Yeah!

The silly thing is that I could do this in an hour or so for the two
programs I need. Maybe tomorrow (I'm not even kidding - not much scheduled
for tomorrow).