Home Basic vs Home Premium vs Professional?

P

Paul

(PeteCresswell) said:
Per Joe Morris:

That was informative. Thanks.

Noting that premium includes "Windows Aero" and Basic does not I
had to wonder what Aero was.... so I went to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Aero and found:

"Windows Aero is a set of interface and design guidelines used in
most editions of the Windows Vista and Windows 7 operating
systems released by Microsoft. ...

The Aero look was designed to take advantage of the new
capabilities of the Windows operating system, featuring a new
modern look primarily using glass and aluminum appearances with
greater uses of translucency, animations, and eye candy."

"The Aero interface was unveiled for Windows Vista as a complete
redesign of the Windows interface."

'Complete Redesign' ????

Per below, I guess Basic is out of the question... but whatever I
wind up with I think I'm looking for or maybe a way to suppress
all the Aero BS. I think there's some sort of add-on that does
this.

Basic sounds out of the question bco the stuff about restrictions
vis-a-vis country that it is used in. "Emerging Countries" in a
nutshell...

This from
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/82542-all-windows-7-versionswhat-you-need-to-know
way back in Feb of 2009:

"Consumers will only be able to buy either Windows 7 Home Premium
or Windows 7 Professional at retail—and deliberately so;
Microsoft wants to try and limit consumer confusion by only
putting the two versions in front of consumers."

"Limit consumer confusion..." Riiiiiight...



But wait... There's more.... and this isn't even a Ginsu cutlery
ad...

Per
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_7_editions#cite_note-How_to_Tell-9

- It looks like Premium does not support multiple CPUs....
My boxes have 2 CPUs... but I don't know enough to tell for
sure if that's a deal-breaker. Sounds like one on the
surface though...

- Professional supports Dynamic Discs. If the implementation is
like the old WHS (dissimilar discs allowed, individual discs
readable on other machines) that sounds pretty good to me
for, say, media center use. Gotta look into that one...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compositing_window_manager

"The most commonly used compositing window managers include:
...

Microsoft Windows - the Desktop Window Manager"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop_Window_Manager

"Desktop Window Manager is the window manager in
Windows Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8 that enables
the Windows Aero graphical user interface and visual theme."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Aero

"Use of DWM, and by extension the Aero Glass theme, requires
a video card with 128 MB of RAM, supporting pixel shader 2.0,
and with WDDM-compatible drivers."

That kinda hints at things, but in true Wikipedia fashion,
doesn't spell it out.

On a "traditional" OS, a program draws into a window. A window
is a rectangle, with a pixmap in it. No transformations are applied,
with the exception of perhaps an (X,Y) offset to the rectangle's
origin on the screen. And perhaps clipping of parts that aren't visible,
that sort of thing. The clipping might be implemented by
CPU calculations, and the GPU would be used as a "dumb frame buffer".
The GPU doesn't get warm, because it's not accelerating or rendering
anything.

A "compositing" window manager, is a transformation of the rectangle.
The program thinks it's drawing into a rectangle, but all the
rectangles are stored in graphics card memory (the 128MB requirement).
Once in the graphics card memory, transformations can be applied to
the windows, such as, say, painting the windows on the six sides
of a 3D cube. That would be an example of a transform applied to each
pixmap, before it appears in the viewable frame buffer for the user
to look at.

Other kinds of transformations the running programs might not be
aware of, is if the window is "fogged out" to indicate it doesn't
have focus. The program didn't draw a "fogged out" window, the
display manager applied a transformation to the program's rectangle,
to change the opacity or other visual properties. The GPU did the
transform. Perhaps the programmable shaders implemented the
transform.

The Mac did this with Quartz (managed rectangles in GPU memory),
and the last Mac I bought had about the same graphic requirements
for compositing of windows. In Linux, Compiz is the equivalent
of these kinds of effects, with the inclusion of cheesy effects
such as the "exploding" window when you dismiss a window.

http://news.opensuse.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/animation-explode.png

*******

" - It looks like Premium does not support multiple CPUs....
My boxes have 2 CPUs... but I don't know enough to tell for
sure if that's a deal-breaker. Sounds like one on the
surface though..."

Your box may have two cores. Less likely to have two CPU sockets.
They count sockets now.

When WinXP came along, the licensing scheme changed in terms
of CPUs and cores. This page provides a summary for Windows 7.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/products/system-requirements

"PCs with multi-core processors

All 32-bit versions of Windows 7 can support up to 32 processor cores,
while 64‑bit versions can support up to 256 processor cores.

PCs with multiple processors (CPUs):

Windows 7 Professional, Enterprise, and Ultimate allow for two physical processors
Windows 7 Starter, Home Basic, and Home Premium will recognize only one physical processor."

The second requirement is the most strict, and is consistent with
the change that came along with WinXP. They started using "sockets"
on the motherboard, for licensing. WinXP Pro allowed the use of
two "sockets" or a dual socket motherboard. You were allowed to
stuff any core count you want in each socket. Windows 7 Pro
appears to allow two sockets as well.

This would be a "2 CPU limit" :)

ftp://ftp.tyan.com/img_mobo/S8236-IL_2D.jpg

Each of those sockets, can hold a 16 core processor. For a
total of 32 cores. This is an example of a reasonably priced
processor for those sockets.

http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/1741/amd-fx-zambezi-17.jpg

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113036

Paul
 
T

Tim Slattery

Per below, I guess Basic is out of the question... but whatever I
wind up with I think I'm looking for or maybe a way to suppress
all the Aero BS. I think there's some sort of add-on that does
this.
No suppression needed. You can choose a theme that uses it or a theme
that doesn't. You can switch back and forth easily.

That said, I'd recommend that you take a look at the very least.
 
P

Phantom Post

But then I'm on to obsessing about the OEM versions - which are a
good hundred bucks less.....
The OEM version is fine. The last time I bought all the parts to build a
computer I also bought an OEM version of Win7. I guess it's tied to this
hardware but that's not an issue as it's the hardware I bought it to use
on.

Back in the day you had to be buying some piece of hardware, I think I
bought a floppy drive to get OEM Win2k, to purchase the OEM version. I
don't know if anybody still does this or not.

My understanding is that OEM versions are tied to the original computer
they are installed/activated on. There's probably ways around that too but
I haven't tried. Otherwise OEM is exactly like any other version.
 
P

(PeteCresswell)

Per Phantom Post:
My understanding is that OEM versions are tied to the original computer
they are installed/activated on.
The zinger would appear tb how MS determines what the "original
computer" is. i.e. maybe if one replaces a hard drive or a
video card, MS' algorithm decides that it is a different
computer.
 
C

Char Jackson

Per Phantom Post:

The zinger would appear tb how MS determines what the "original
computer" is. i.e. maybe if one replaces a hard drive or a
video card, MS' algorithm decides that it is a different
computer.
The bar isn't nearly that low. A completely different motherboard
might trigger a reactivation, but not a video card or hard drive (by
themselves). Regardless, if reactivation is required, it can usually
be done online. In extreme cases, a phone call may be required.
 
P

Phantom Post

The zinger would appear tb how MS determines what the "original
computer" is. i.e. maybe if one replaces a hard drive or a
video card, MS' algorithm decides that it is a different
computer.
I wouldn't worry about that. As I understand it you can change out parts
without having to reactivate. I've swapped hard drives but not much else.
That certainly didn't raise any flags or cause any issues.
 
P

Paul

Phantom said:
I wouldn't worry about that. As I understand it you can change out parts
without having to reactivate. I've swapped hard drives but not much else.
That certainly didn't raise any flags or cause any issues.
There is an example of the thinking that goes into activation, here.
The main value of the article, is to show some of the electronic
identifiers available. The article can't know in detail, what
today's policy is at the Microsoft activation server. They can
change the rules as they see fit.

http://aumha.org/win5/a/wpa.htm

Paul
 
W

...winston

Windows Media Center is included in Win7 Home Premium and higher
versions...i.e. included in Win7 Pro (and Ultimate and Enterprise)

--
....winston
msft mvp mail


"Mortimer" wrote in message

One thing to be aware of is that, certainly for Vista, Professional didn't
include Windows Media Centre which Home Premium did. I *think* the same
distinction is true of Win 7 as well, but I've not tried Win 7 Pro so I
can't be certain.
 
W

...winston

"(PeteCresswell)" wrote in message
Per ...winston:
I've seen both. Users with Homegroups and those without. If only one pc,
then Homegroup isn't really a variable.
Has MS moved the furniture around again, and "HomeGroup" is
really what "WorkGroup" is under XP?[/QUOTE]

Homegroup is for use with 2 Windows 7 machines (or Win7 and later Win8
machines) .
It is not applicable to Win7 in combination with prior o/s (XP, Vista).

If Win7 (or Win8) and earlier machines Workgroup remains an available
option.
 
S

Steve Hayes

Per ...winston:

Is that to say that it is less resource-intensive? If so, it
seems like that might be an argument for using it over "higher"
versions if the missing capabilities are not something the user
needs or wants (e.g. maybe the variable transparency of
windows...)

Can anybody expand on "easier" networking? All I want is tb
able to
According to my copy of "Windows 7 for dummies" (of whom I am one), the
differences are:

Starter - for netbooks, with limited hardware capabilities

Home Basic - for developing countries, like Starter but with better graphics,
Internet connection sharing, and able to use capabilities of more
sophisticated laptops

Home Premium - like Home Basic, but also lets you watch and record TV on your
PC, and create DVDs from your camcorder footage

Professional - extra networing features and "similar business tools" (whatever
they are)

Enterprise - large business version, sold in bulk

Ultimate - aimed at the wallets of information technology specialists who must
have the latest and greatest of everything.
 
J

Jake

"Char Jackson" said:
The bar isn't nearly that low. A completely different motherboard
might trigger a reactivation, but not a video card or hard drive (by
themselves). Regardless, if reactivation is required, it can usually
be done online. In extreme cases, a phone call may be required.
That was my experience. New MB called for a phone call. An explanation
that I had to swap out the MB was all they needed and they activated it.
 
J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

In message <[email protected]>, Steve Hayes
Home Premium - like Home Basic, but also lets you watch and record TV on your
PC, and create DVDs from your camcorder footage
[]
I've always been puzzled about that bit: surely to watch TV, you either
need (a) a TV receive stick, which will come with its own driver
allowing you to both watch and record it anyway (even on XP), or (b) a
pretty unlimited - and good - internet connection?

(And similarly for the DVD bit: I'd expect most camcorders these days,
i. e. digital ones, _or_ anything that can capture from an old analogue
camcorder, to come with at least some video editing software - and
either DVD writing would come as part of that software, or is at least
available free online from various sources [as is video editing
software].)
 
C

Char Jackson

In message <[email protected]>, Steve Hayes
Home Premium - like Home Basic, but also lets you watch and record TV on your
PC, and create DVDs from your camcorder footage
[]
I've always been puzzled about that bit: surely to watch TV, you either
need (a) a TV receive stick, which will come with its own driver
allowing you to both watch and record it anyway (even on XP), or (b) a
pretty unlimited - and good - internet connection?
An Internet connection isn't usually required, except perhaps in cases
where you're trying to watch online content. Typical TV programming
(here in the States, anyway) is delivered via cable or OTA
(Over-the-air).

As for the basic TV apps that come bundled with aftermarket tuners,
they are shamefully barebones, to be nice about it. Third parties
rushed in with offerings such as BeyondTV, SageTV (what I use),
MythTV, and others. Wikipedia has an exhaustive list. Finally, with
Win 7, we get a fairly capable media center application. It has a
proper GUI that includes an extended program guide (EPG), full PVR
support, support for a wide range of tuner hardware, cover art and
show icons, and more. I don't think anyone is going to use the basic
app that comes with a tuner when they have Win 7's MC available.
 
P

(PeteCresswell)

Per Char Jackson:
SageTV (what I use)
Have you developed a fallback position for the day Sage breaks?

I have not based on the assumption that, by the time it does,
there will be other possibilities than what is out there today.
 
C

Char Jackson

Per Char Jackson:

Have you developed a fallback position for the day Sage breaks?
AFAIK, Google hasn't said what they plan to do with it, so for now I'm
just riding the Sage horse until it dies or swerves off in a bad
direction.
I have not based on the assumption that, by the time it does,
there will be other possibilities than what is out there today.
To be honest, I'll probably use Win 7's Media Center. For my needs, it
does most of what Sage does, but its recorded files have the .wtv
extension rather than .mpg, which is a drawback for me since my
favorite video editor doesn't handle .wtv.

I've also been keeping tabs on the free Media Portal project, which
seems to have some excitement surrounding it. I looked at an earlier
version of MP, but IMO it wasn't ready yet at the time, or maybe it
was just me who wasn't ready. Anyway, I love Sage and hope Google
doesn't screw it up or kill it.

How do my experiences compare to yours?
 
P

(PeteCresswell)

Per Char Jackson:
How do my experiences compare to yours?
When I tried Media Center, the dumbing-down of the UI made me
crazy... but I suspect I'm a little crazy to begin with... maybe
a closet Type-A. When I was an obese pre-adolescent, my dad
took me to this fat doctor in NYC, who put me on a starvation
diet and amphetamines - which seem to have formed much of my
personality as an adult.... -)

I never got to the .wtv thing - but a proprietary format was the
first thing to put me off of BeyondTV back when I was looking for
a MythTV replacement... so that would be make Media Center even
harder to swallow.

I'm running XP and Sage just keeps on tickin'.... mostly...

Managed to mess it up a little when I migrated my RecordedTV from
a NAS box to a couple of 2-TB drives on the Sage server. Pauses
on playback.... but I am pretty sure that was because I forgot to
format the drives properly (64k blocks) and it's struggling with
the inevitably-fragmented disc.

I am also having major pixellation problems on certain channels
at certain times of day. I had the Silicon Dust support guys
check my tuner logs and they say there's no signal problem... so
I'm hoping that it's somehow an artifact of the bad blocking
and/or a flaky drive. Another possibility is growth of tree
branches between antenna and transmitters - but the TOD thing
would have tb explained for that one to work... and the onset of
fall/winter may dispose of it with no effort on my part.

As long as I can keep the Sage box running XP - or even a version
of 7 where it works the only thing I've heard so far that might
break it is some driver issue if/when I have to go to a new mobo.

I really *like* SageTV... Having said that, if Google and the
old Frey team were to come out with a functional clone with the
same customizability for under $200....
 
C

Char Jackson

Per Char Jackson:

When I tried Media Center, the dumbing-down of the UI made me
crazy... but I suspect I'm a little crazy to begin with... maybe
a closet Type-A. When I was an obese pre-adolescent, my dad
took me to this fat doctor in NYC, who put me on a starvation
diet and amphetamines - which seem to have formed much of my
personality as an adult.... -)
Was that dumbed-down UI under Win 7 or XP or what? I really don't have
a problem with Win 7's MC interface. Of course, I rarely ever see the
(Sage) interface. It just quietly does it's thing, recording from my
two dual HDHomerun tuners, and I access those recordings from another
PC on the LAN, never from the box that recorded them.
I never got to the .wtv thing - but a proprietary format was the
first thing to put me off of BeyondTV back when I was looking for
a MythTV replacement... so that would be make Media Center even
harder to swallow.
I tried BeyondTV several years ago and liked it, but what turned me
off when I got the HDHR tuners is that BTV is effectively a dead
product. Its developer has openly said he is no longer interested in
it and has shifted his focus away from the consumer space into a more
commercial space. One of the things I liked about BTV was the fact
that it created standard MPG files that any MPG editor was able to
work with. I'm surprised to hear that you found the files to be
proprietary. That may be something that changed later, after I had
moved on.
I'm running XP and Sage just keeps on tickin'.... mostly...

Managed to mess it up a little when I migrated my RecordedTV from
a NAS box to a couple of 2-TB drives on the Sage server. Pauses
on playback.... but I am pretty sure that was because I forgot to
format the drives properly (64k blocks) and it's struggling with
the inevitably-fragmented disc.
My Sage drive pool is comprised of 15 2TB Samsung drives, configured
as a single 27.2TB volume. Even with all 4 tuners recording to the
pool, I can watch (stream) a recorded program from across the LAN. Of
course, in my case, I might be recording to one or more physical
drives and pulling content from an entirely different drive. Who
knows. The drives are all formatted with the default settings. I
haven't checked their fragmentation status. I'm going to wait until I
have a problem.
I am also having major pixellation problems on certain channels
at certain times of day. I had the Silicon Dust support guys
check my tuner logs and they say there's no signal problem... so
I'm hoping that it's somehow an artifact of the bad blocking
and/or a flaky drive. Another possibility is growth of tree
branches between antenna and transmitters - but the TOD thing
would have tb explained for that one to work... and the onset of
fall/winter may dispose of it with no effort on my part.
When I first got the HDHR's, I was a bit mesmerized with the ability
to watch their signal strength in real time. If you see any problems,
you might want to fire up the HDHR Config program to check it out.
Signal Strength, Signal Quality, and Symbol Quality are all available
in real time. All of my tuners are using a single OTA antenna as their
source, and my signal levels range from 93% to 100% across all of the
channels. Signal Quality and Symbol Quality are always pegged at 100%.

I did have a signal strength problem with one half of one dual tuner
at first. Signal Strength would never get above 60% on that one. I did
some basic t-shooting by moving cables around, then opened a case with
HDHR support. They were excellent, by quickly reviewing my reported
complaint and immediately issuing an RMA. They didn't cross ship the
replacement, but even so, I had the new one in about 8 days from when
I mailed back the bad one.

Before getting the HDHR tuners, I messed around with several other
brands and types (PCI cards, USB sticks, etc), and I'm kicking myself
for waiting as long as I did. These things absolutely rock. The two
things I like best are 1)no coax cables running to the server!, and
2)the tuners are available to any PC on the network and are pooled, so
instead of connecting to a specific tuner, you connect to any
available tuner in the pool. As you know, Sage is able to take
advantage of that pooling, as does Win 7's Media Center.
As long as I can keep the Sage box running XP - or even a version
of 7 where it works the only thing I've heard so far that might
break it is some driver issue if/when I have to go to a new mobo.
No issues running Sage on Win 7. I didn't need any drivers since
there's no hardware involved.
I really *like* SageTV... Having said that, if Google and the
old Frey team were to come out with a functional clone with the
same customizability for under $200....
I hope they just leave well enough alone, but I suppose they didn't
buy it with the idea of doing nothing. We'll see.
 
P

(PeteCresswell)

Per Char Jackson:
One of the things I liked about BTV was the fact
that it created standard MPG files that any MPG editor was able to
work with. I'm surprised to hear that you found the files to be
proprietary. That may be something that changed later, after I had
moved on.
More likely, I got it mixed up with some other product. I think
the same product I was thinking of also "Phoned Home" every time
it booted up - so if the publisher's server was down or
something, the user was unable to run the product.

As far as WMC's dumbed-down interface making me crazy goes...
You're probably normal.... Thousands, if not hundreds of
thousands or even millions of people must like it just fine....
But I'm one of those fault-finding PITAs.

Just read Steve Job's biography, and I feel a bond with the guy.
I've got the same arrogant attitude towards product - or at least
UI - design... it's just that he had the brains to accompany it
and I don't... -)
 

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