Why don't passwords stick?

P

Peter Jason

Win7 SP1

Some applications have an option, when a password
is entered, to save this.

Notoriously, Firefox doesn't.

Is this something to do with Win7?

Peter
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

Win7 SP1

Some applications have an option, when a password
is entered, to save this.

Notoriously, Firefox doesn't.

Is this something to do with Win7?

Peter
No.
 
J

Jason

Win7 SP1

Some applications have an option, when a password
is entered, to save this.

Notoriously, Firefox doesn't.

Is this something to do with Win7?

Peter
Do you want to password protect launching Firefox itself? That wasn't
clear. If that's true, I don't know how to do it. To be sure, however,
Firefox supports storing passwords for other pages you may open though
not all of them conform to some standard or other that allows FF to
detect the id/pw dialog correctly (my local bank, for example - grrr).

Jason
 
S

Stan Brown

Win7 SP1

Some applications have an option, when a password
is entered, to save this.

Notoriously, Firefox doesn't.
Huh???

Firefox can indeed save passwords. (I don't personally use it for
that, preferring the security and portability of the free KeePass.
KeePass is also not affected by the scripting some organizations put
on their Web pages to prevent your browser from using stored logins.)
 
P

Paul

Stan said:
Huh???

Firefox can indeed save passwords. (I don't personally use it for
that, preferring the security and portability of the free KeePass.
KeePass is also not affected by the scripting some organizations put
on their Web pages to prevent your browser from using stored logins.)
It saves passwords when it's working. And if you look at the preferences,
it's easy to imagine how you might break it (by entering exceptions).

http://cdn.avsforum.com/9/99/525x525px-LL-99a029b7_vbattach180310.jpeg

I think the Mozilla approach is, if the username/password is
currently saved, if there's the least little problem logging
in (attempt is rejected), the username/password pair are
dropped, and then the user has to re-enter the information.
The idea being, that any rejection cases, are the fault
of the user entering incorrect info.

Paul
 
J

John Williamson

Peter said:
Win7 SP1

Some applications have an option, when a password
is entered, to save this.

Notoriously, Firefox doesn't.

Is this something to do with Win7?
I've been using FF since day one, and since I told it to save passwords,
I've never been asked again, and on most pages it does it automatically.
On one page I use regularly, this facility is disabled by a script on
the page.

Have you maybe told it not to save a password in response to a pop-up
dialogue and forgotten about it?

If you open Tools - Page Info - Security tab,then you can view what
passwords are saved for that page.
 
B

Bob Henson

It saves passwords when it's working. And if you look at the preferences,
it's easy to imagine how you might break it (by entering exceptions).

http://cdn.avsforum.com/9/99/525x525px-LL-99a029b7_vbattach180310.jpeg

I think the Mozilla approach is, if the username/password is
currently saved, if there's the least little problem logging
in (attempt is rejected), the username/password pair are
dropped, and then the user has to re-enter the information.
The idea being, that any rejection cases, are the fault
of the user entering incorrect info.
That's certainly what happens, but it's actually a long standing (years)
bug. It's not intended to happen but bad code produces that result.

--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, UK www.galen.org.uk


Roses are red, Violets are grey, Ooer that's wrong, still ne'mind, eh?
 
V

VanguardLH

Perhaps better stated as "Some applications can cache a password field
within a document", or "Firefox is [sometimes] not saving a password on
[some unidentified] web page in its autocomplete cache."

If passwords are not saved in the autocomplete cache in FF for all web
pages then it's possible John configured FF to not remember passwords
for sites. Also, no app can always identify what field (object) in a
form is actually used for the password. There are hints based on object
name or type but nothing prevents the web page author from using a
non-identifed object to store the password value. John doesn't say if
the problem is everywhere or a few places or just one place.

Or perhaps John meant to ask something like "Some applications can ask
for a password when they load". This usually applies not for loading
the application but when that application attempts to access a local
database, message store, or something that it accesses. FF has its own
master password option under the Security tab. Help says:

Firefox can protect sensitive information such as saved passwords and
certificates by encrypting them using a master password. If you create
a master password, each time you start Firefox, it will ask you to
enter the password the first time it needs to access a certificate or
stored password.
I've been using FF since day one, and since I told it to save
passwords, I've never been asked again, and on most pages it does it
automatically. On one page I use regularly, this facility is disabled
by a script on the page.
For "<input type="password" />" used within a form, there is the
autocomplete=off parameter which tells the web browser NOT to cache the
value of this object. "Autocomplete" is the cache in the web browser.
In JQuery, use "$("input#Password").attr("autocomplete","off");" or
"$("input[type='password']").attr("autocomplete","off");". In
Javascript, use "document.getElementById('Password').autocomplete =
'off';". They're all using the autocomplete parameter (set to "off") on
an input object.

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/How_to_Turn_Off_Form_Autocompletion
http://www.w3schools.com/html5/att_form_autocomplete.asp

If you visit an HTTPS page but an object is delivered via HTTP header or
META tag then caching is disabled. That's how IE works so I suspect FF
does the same. I suspect any dynamic web page using Javascript from a
non-secured source when visiting an HTTPS page would do the same (no
caching). Mixed content is better enforced (with selections for Prompt,
Allow, Block) in IE than in FF (a 7-year old reported problem). I
believe Mozilla (hence Google for Chrome) are now looking at blocking
mixed *script* content for an HTTPS page but that is incomplete. Non-
encrypted text or images coming from a HTTP source could also contain
sensitive info, like credit card or bank account info, and that could be
sniffed out of the HTTP traffic despite you visiting an HTTPS page. At
best, you can have FF alert you about mixed content but that content has
*already* been delivered in the clear (i.e., the alert is worthless on
inbound traffic and only provides some notice that anything you send out
might not be encrypted). Pity when FF can't manage the same security as
old IE where the mixed content option showed up in IE7 back in 2006 and
I've always had it set to Blocked although the default is to Prompt.
 
K

Ken Blake

Firefox can indeed save passwords. (I don't personally use it for
that, preferring the security and portability of the free KeePass.
KeePass is also not affected by the scripting some organizations put
on their Web pages to prevent your browser from using stored logins.)

I don't use Firefox for anything; I greatly prefer Maxthon. But like
you, I use KeePass for passwords.
 
C

Char Jackson

I don't use Firefox for anything; I greatly prefer Maxthon. But like
you, I use KeePass for passwords.
Every mention of KeePass makes me smile as I remember the time I tried
it out. After loading some username/password combos, I visited a site
and waited patiently for KeePass to populate the form and log me in.
Nothing happened, so I refreshed the page, but again, nothing
happened. I must have looked rather silly as I waited there patiently.

Finally realizing that I was waiting for something that was not going
to happen by design, I quickly dumped KeePass and happily went back to
Roboform. I was just glad no one was there at the time, watching me
stare intently at my screen. I can laugh about it now, though. :)
 
S

Stan Brown

Every mention of KeePass makes me smile as I remember the time I tried
it out. After loading some username/password combos, I visited a site
and waited patiently for KeePass to populate the form and log me in.
Nothing happened, so I refreshed the page, but again, nothing
happened. I must have looked rather silly as I waited there patiently.
Some sites don't call the user name and password fields by the usual
names. So how is *any* password manager supposed to guess at what
it's supposed to enter in that case?

You set up auto-type in KeePass, once, and you never have to think
about it again for that non-standard site.
 
K

Ken Blake

Some sites don't call the user name and password fields by the usual
names. So how is *any* password manager supposed to guess at what
it's supposed to enter in that case?

You set up auto-type in KeePass, once, and you never have to think
about it again for that non-standard site.

Whether from KeePass or anything else, I don't want my passwords
entered automatically. If my computer should ever be stolen, I don't
want my passwords to be stolen along with it.
 
C

Char Jackson

Whether from KeePass or anything else, I don't want my passwords
entered automatically. If my computer should ever be stolen, I don't
want my passwords to be stolen along with it.
I can't speak for KeePass in that regard, but it's trivial to do
exactly what you asked for with Roboform. A thief would gain nothing.
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

Every mention of KeePass makes me smile as I remember the time I tried
it out. After loading some username/password combos, I visited a site
and waited patiently for KeePass to populate the form and log me in.
Nothing happened, so I refreshed the page, but again, nothing
happened. I must have looked rather silly as I waited there patiently.

Finally realizing that I was waiting for something that was not going
to happen by design, I quickly dumped KeePass and happily went back to
Roboform. I was just glad no one was there at the time, watching me
stare intently at my screen. I can laugh about it now, though. :)
I never realized that KeePass wouldn't enter (some?) passwords
automatically, because like Ken Blake, I don't want any automatic
entering of passwords on any of my machines...
 
C

Char Jackson

I never realized that KeePass wouldn't enter (some?) passwords
automatically, because like Ken Blake, I don't want any automatic
entering of passwords on any of my machines...
Automatic entering probably isn't the best choice of words. To the
uninitiated, it probably gets interpreted literally, which isn't the
case. Sorry.

When Roboform sees that you've navigated to a web site for which
you've asked it to store your login credentials, it _offers_ to fill
in those values with a single mouse click, (Fill and Submit), or with
two clicks (Fill Forms), but can easily be configured to require you
to enter a master password before it does anything.

I have the master password feature disabled on my primary desktop
machine because I don't have security concerns there, but I do have it
enabled on the laptops.
 
S

Stan Brown

Automatic entering probably isn't the best choice of words. To the
uninitiated, it probably gets interpreted literally, which isn't the
case. Sorry.

When Roboform sees that you've navigated to a web site for which
you've asked it to store your login credentials, it _offers_ to fill
in those values with a single mouse click, (Fill and Submit), or with
two clicks (Fill Forms), but can easily be configured to require you
to enter a master password before it does anything.
KeePass is similar, except that I think you are required to have a
master password; even if it weren't required, I'd never consider
_not_ having one. This is so that if your computer is stolen (or
your granddaughter is using it) your logins are unavailable.

KeePass lets you have multiple files, so that you could say store
passwords for sites that you want your granddaughter to be able to
log in to but keep your banking and porn logins separate and
unavailable to her.
 
K

Ken Blake

KeePass is similar, except that I think you are required to have a
master password; even if it weren't required, I'd never consider
_not_ having one. This is so that if your computer is stolen (or
your granddaughter is using it) your logins are unavailable.

Thanks very much. Yes, I have a master password (for the reasons you
mention), but I never realized it could this if I entered the master
password. I'll have to think about using this feature; perhaps I will.
 
R

Robin Bignall

I can't speak for KeePass in that regard, but it's trivial to do
exactly what you asked for with Roboform. A thief would gain nothing.
The two password managers I've used keep their data encrypted, so
stealing them would not reveal passwords, as you need a password to
unlock them.
 
G

G. Morgan

Peter said:
Win7 SP1

Some applications have an option, when a password
is entered, to save this.

Notoriously, Firefox doesn't.
Yes it does, if you enable it. It's way insecure - anyone with physical
access to the machine can see all of them.
Is this something to do with Win7?
No.

I use Lastpass for a password manager. I bought the full version so I
can take them with me on the mobile phone.
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

Automatic entering probably isn't the best choice of words. To the
uninitiated, it probably gets interpreted literally, which isn't the
case. Sorry.

When Roboform sees that you've navigated to a web site for which
you've asked it to store your login credentials, it _offers_ to fill
in those values with a single mouse click, (Fill and Submit), or with
two clicks (Fill Forms), but can easily be configured to require you
to enter a master password before it does anything.
Thanks for the clarification.

Looks like I have to revise my motivation to laziness rather than
caution :)
 

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