SOLVED What advantages does 7 offer over XP ?

[TrainableMan]

OK, I bought into the commercials and I upgraded. I had to buy new memory and an expensive operating system and I'll be honest I don't see a huge advantage.

Background: I upgraded (a little) to a used machine that came with Vista. I popped out that noisey 500MB HD and put in my old WD 1TB HD with XP on it. I was able to find drivers for everything but my sound but I was already considering 7 and the upgrade advisor said sure go for it - just 3 old programs will have issues.

So I took the plung and upgraded, and after about 3-4 weeks of tweaking and reinstalling everything I'm not sure I would tell anyone else to upgrade. I traded one missing driver for another in the deal, now I have sound but only a partially functioning trackball - I think I could have found a sound driver had I tried harder, Logitech told me flat out they are no longer supporting this trackball. Worst case I could have bought a cheap soundcard.

I think 7 boots a little faster but from what I've read, software like office naturally run slower in Vista & 7 than on XP. Aero is all show so no big woop to me. I formatted over my XP (I didn't read anything about dual boot till too late) but I'm honestly having second thoughts and if I knew offhand where my XP disk was I might downgrade.

I've never been one that needs the latest thing and I don't care if XP is 10 years old - if it's better than what they have today then Microsoft screwed up, not me, in wanting to keep it. I dislike the forced menu style, even in XP I used the classic 98. And the changes to Windows Explorer are horrid! The USB mouse/trackball stuttered (stops and reappears further along the path) so much that I had to buy an adapter to use the old PS2 port. And to get anything done I had to disable UAC and it still tries to tell me I don't know where my music, pictures, or videos are and that I must use the magic link to their location!

So, why 7 ? It's slower and has just as many driver problems! Is it worth it, because I have yet to see it ? What software is a must-have that will not run in XP ? I'm not a gamer but I would like to leave this discussion open to games as well, just in case. Constructive thoughts please. (But just because it's new or that XP is old is not an argument of any merit)

 

[catilley1092]

As far as installing it on an older computer (one that came with XP) no, it's not worth it. But on a computer built to run it, yes, it's worth it. I happen to have the last four generations of Windows OS's (2K Pro, XP Pro, Vista Home Premium and 7 (Pro & Ultimate 64 bit). It depends entirely on what you're installing it on as to the outcome of how the software performs. And I happen to like all four OS's, so my opinion is unbiased.

 

[clifford_cooley]

I find I'm using the quick view feature of the superbar more and more. I've enjoyed the eye candy of Windows 7 since the day I downloaded the Beta version over a year ago. Some of the features are still growing on me.

Change is something that is hard to get used too, and sometimes not until forced to change. If some of us was not forced into changing, many computers would still have Windows 3.11 as an operating system. Thats not advancing in technology when we as a whole refuse to change.

With that said, I am still finding it difficult to work with Wordpad when its "automatic word select" selects text that I didn't want highlighted. This was a feature I could turn off in XP. That forces me to use the arrow keys instead of the mouse to make my text selections. I'm not so much apposed to change as I am removal of options to modify features (There is a small difference between the two).

 

[TrainableMan]

When you say the quickview feature, are you referring to the small window showing what is IN the actual window? If so that was a powertoy that could be added to XP although it would trigger in the center of the screen with the alt+tab to change windows (instead of by the task bar like it is in 7) - this was actually one of the programs that flagged as a possible problem in upgrade-advisor. The second was Partition Magic which has essentially been replaced with Win 7s Boot Manager (although Win 7 is not as friendly in handling moving live data areas or noncontiguous partitions). And the third program flagged was Nero 6 which is extremely old and much of the functionality is now native to Win 7, at least if I didn't have to disable it just to keep the DVD bay closed if I click the wrong drive letter in Windows Explorer.

 

[clifford_cooley]

I was referring to hovering over the superbar icon showing the thumbnails of all open windows with that app. Then hovering over one of the thumbnails to show the application window without actually making it the active application in other words bringing it to front. Then when you mouse off of the thumbnail, the active application you was working with comes back to display. This all happens without changing apps windows or clicking the mouse. Its all controlled by hovering the mouse in a specific way. Sometimes its annoying but once you get used to it, this feature does come in handy, depending on what you are doing.

 

[davehc]

It also has an unlisted and very useful feature. My indulgence in games is playing online Pool/snooker. I belong to Pool sharks. (No spam intended!). Of late, an irritating advert pops up over the list of playable tables. If you click the "x", it opens to the home page. I could not find any other way to get rid of it.
Then I noticed that it was also popping up, as a separate entry, on the supebar. Hover and right click - "Close window" did the trick!

 

[clifford_cooley]

on the supebar. Hover and right click - "Close window" did the trick!

If you noticed the little red X while hovering, you wouldn't need to right click. Hover and then click the red X.

 

[davehc]

Right. Thanks Cliff

 

[Thrax]

There are numerous ways in which Windows 7 is quantitatively better than XP. It appears, however, that you've made up your mind. Why not just format back to XP and be done with it?

You can lead a horse to water...

 

[TrainableMan]

If you can see it in the task bar then you can probably see it in the XP task bar and at the very least it would be in task manager so it can be killed in XP as well, therefore this is not a reason to stay with Win 7 or to ever migrate to it if you haven't already.

You might also try blocking the ads via your hosts file.
http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm
They update the list every other month or so and you add them to your hosts file and it gets rid of the most annoying ads. It's funny; I go to some sites where the people complain in the comments about the annoying ads and I have no idea what they are talking about. I love it on hula.com when it tells me it cannot display the ad and I should fix my ad blocking software - LOL, I would rather read that message for 30 seconds than hear an actual commercial.

Of course some sites won't give you what you want unless you do allow their commercial crapola, so you keep an empty host file in backup and you rename them back and forth (or create a batch file to do it). But usually I don't want it bad enough and I just go on to some other site.

Come on people! Convince me! Why shouldn't I just go back to XP? Why should anyone upgrade to 7 if they have XP working?

I heard all these horror stories about Vista, do not go to Vista, well from what I can see of Windows 7 it looks/works/acts like vista or worse! Atleast Vista allowed you to use some of the old style. The only thing I saw wrong with Vista vs 7 is Vista warns you you will have to give administrator power before it actually shows you a box to give it where 7 cut this down to just the one box - I suspect turning off UAC in Vista would have cured that as well.

NOTE: I played with Vista all of about 2 days before reverting to my XP HD and then after a few days w/o sound I upgraded that HD to 7. The old HD that I took out with Vista on it (my first noisey Hitachi for anyone familiar with the Noisey HD thread) went into a computer I refurbed for my niece and that too I upgraded to 7. This third case that I bought to resell came with Vista but I upgraded it to 7. So I have access to 3 computers with 7 ... no actually 4, the laptop I bought my nephew for Christmas is also 7. And for my niece and nephew 7 is fine - they aren't heavy users and the don't have old hardware I couldn't get going (I had to tweak my nieces to use her old printer but HP previded the workaround on their site).

But for me it comes down to one piece of hardware that I absolutely love and have had for 15 years ... my Trackball. It fits my hand perfectly and my hand doesn't cramp up like it does with some mice. I bought the new version from Amazon - it arrived today and I just hate it. I'm supposed to use two fingers to do right, center + scroll, and left buttons insted of three fingers which seems so much more natural. I tore it apart to see if I could move the guts of it into my old one so it would feel old but work new - not gonna be possible, very differnt inside. So now I need to return it.

I figured out what I need - I need an Ubergeek - someone I can feed Red Bull & Doritos and they pop out a 64bit mouse driver for a logitech trackman marble wheel in about 20 minutes !!! Hey Fire cat, what are you doing after math class?!? LOL

 

[TrainableMan]

What numerous ways, please list a few Thrax?

There are some appearance things, but this is extremely a personal choice, and in the past they were nice enough to let you actually choose but not any more!. I like some of the stuff: AERO, the fast boot, and Clifford's quick view could be useful, but nothing that I could say justifies the expense and time I put into upgrading, I don't know what I will end up doing since I already have money invested.

My vision may be clouded because I'm stuck on a hardware issue they very likely won't encounter. But what problems will I encounter when I deliver this desktop I'm working on to the buyer. His wife loves taking and editing photographs, he and his son are into games - most I think are older games. Will his camera be able to connect? Will his joystick have drivers? How many of the games will only work in Virtual XP mode?

What I was hoping to do was hear reasons for or against upgrading, for people who might find this thread before they take what has become a huge step to me. Are they better off staying where they are until they buy their next computer? If you upgraded as opposed to buying preinstalled, what problems did you encounter? Was it worth it to you?

I'm not trying to be negative, I am looking for honest opinions and open discussion on the pros and cons.

 

[Mychael]

My XP has been fine I also keep it in classic mode but my hardware is getting near it's use by date and will soon need replacing anyway so as I upgrade my hardware so to will I load Win7.
Having said that were I blessed with hardware that never failed or wore out then XP would be all I ever need.

It's a waste though to fit the latest hardware and not be using an operating system that maximises the value of the new hardware.

Mychael

 

[Nibiru2012]

Trainable Man - Did you look on Logitech's website for the drivers? Here's the link to download the "SetPoint" driver software, just be sure to choose either 32 bit or 64 bit.
http://www.logitech.com/en-us/429/4680?section=downloads&bit=&osid=14

My question is: Why did you do a re-fit of a customer's existing computer with Windows 7? Is this what they want?

You're questioning all the features of Windows 7 and yet this computer is not even for your own use? From what you have stated, you're building this for a customer of yours.

I know first-hand that MS Office and other apps load a LOT quicker than they used to on Windows XP Pro x64 that I used to run.
When I click on Word it opens in less than a second! Same with Publisher, Excel, etc. NitroPDF loads in about 1.5 seconds.

ALL OF US here at this forum took a HUGE leap of faith in installing and using Windows 7. However, a lot of us were messing with the BETA versions starting in January 2009 and checked out each release prior to the RTM in October 2009.

Some of us used to run Vista, personally I did not like it. So I stuck with XP Pro until 7 came out.
Now going from XP to 7 is a definite change and it does take some getting used to, however once you have made the switch and use 7 you'll never go back to XP.

Also remember that the requirements of RAM are different in 7 versus XP. To run a 7 32 bit version a minimum of 1GB of RAM is required, for the 64 bit a minimum of 2GB is needed.

Did you install all the drivers in the proper order? The Intel Chipset Info driver should always be loaded first after initial install of the OS, then it usually necessary to go to the Device Manger, select "View Devices by Connection" and then point the various listings to where the driver is stored.

You're starting from a negative viewpoint on the OS, be a little more open-minded and give it time.

 

[Veedaz]

I use Aero Peek a lot as I tend to have a few apps open most the time and Here is a little freeware app to change the thumbnail size, also in windows that are open you can take away the blur with This freeware app.

 

[TrainableMan]

Nibiru, I upgraded mine roughly a month ago and I downloaded the latest version of Logitech's Setpoint software (6.00.68) for 64-bit OS but it did not give me an option to assign a function to the center mouse click (the scrolling of the wheel works with the default 7 drivers, as does the left, right, and motion control but when you push the scroll wheel down it should perform a center mouse click which I always assigned to double-click).

So I opened a support request with logitech and we emailed back and forth for over two weeks, I would send screenshots of the drivers etc, he had me try it on another computer with my trackball, etc. It turns out IF the software recognizes your keyboard & mouse/trackball then it adds extra tabs for "keyboard" and "mouse". It's funny because when I tested it on my nephews laptop, it detected the dell bluetooth keyboard & mouse I bought him, and added functionality like a low battery warning but it still did not see my trackball. It also turns out there is a place to click in the lower left for a status report and it will store a report on your computer, in my case saying "We know you have a Logitech Trackman Marble Wheel attached but it is not receiving" some packet or whatever. So after two weeks when I sent the Logitech support person an actual picture of the trackball I have, he said Oh we don't support that model any more, so sorry.

So that's my desktop. Now this one to sell ...

Before I had the fatal blow about my trackball, my brother's business partner decided he needed a newer computer because it was running so slow (I believe it's the virus software he uses) and he had maxed out his internal HD (the shop told him they could get him something better for $300, I said I could get him something decent for $300 and with the latest Windows OS so he said great).

His wife is into photos and he and his son play video games on it; his wife being the heavier day-to-day user - from the age of his old computer I know it's nothing like todays games but I wanted to raise his top-end possibilities a bit. So I bought a case with an AMD quad core (Intel costs more), it only has a 300W PSU and a really cheap video card but I had the card I took out of mine which is near the top of what you can do with a 300W. I had mentioned to him before I bought it that I wish it had a bigger PSU but he didn't seem too concerned.

As is, this should do everything his old one did but faster (more memory), with higher resolution (better video card), more space (bigger HD), and, I added 4 powered front USB ports so this unit has 10, 4-rear/6-front, he can plug in the world. But it came with Vista and everything I heard said "Vista bad" and the commercials on TV brainwashed me so I installed 7 Pro. The main reason for pro was the Virtual XP in case we need it for any of his games. He doesn't need bit locker and he doesn't speak another language so there isn't a real advantage to going Ultimate, and going Ultimate does have one very big disadvantage - that being, going forward upgrades to new OS are more expensive (Ultimate $$$ > Pro) or require a bigger hassle (fresh install). This is actually my reasoning for all the PCs I support being 7 Pro, save one - my brother's old Pc is XP (it is actually the same model as his business partners old desktop because the company bought them both) but it does all he needs and the ones I bought my niece and nephew do what they need for school and fun.

So as you see I have pretty well commited to Win 7 Pro, by committing my friends and family, I have committed myself to supporting it no matter what. I don't know where my XP discs are anyway and besides you move forward not backwards right?

Mostly I just miss my center mouse button and I was hoping to make people who may find this BEFORE they commit to upgrading to really think about what is involved and what you may loose - money, time, hardware functionality, freedom to choose how menus etc are displayed, slighly slower applications such as MS office products.

I was hoping there would be people listing reasons how it has improved their computer use, those must-have things XP just couldn't do but so far ...

My recommendation would be Do Not Upgrade, just embrace it when new hardware comes with it. Note, this is not the message you will get from the Microsoft commercials, they want everyone 7 right now and you gotta have it! My response is "Why?"

 

[clifford_cooley]

This is my thoughts. If I had XP on a computer and it was working fine, I probably would not upgrade. Now if I was building a new system and had to make a choice of which to purchase. I would not choose XP, it's time to leave XP behind or be left behind with it.

If you have older hardware that will not function in Windows 7 and you are unwilling to upgrade hardware, there is really only one choice. That would be to stay with XP until you are ready to move forward and leave your old hardware.

 

[TrainableMan]

And had the upgrade advisor indicated my hardware would be a problem I may have made a better informed choice - but it didn't make a peep about my hardware after I installed the extra RAM (initially it did mention I needed RAM).

 

[catilley1092]

TrainableMan, sometimes the upgrade advisor misses things. It's by no means perfect, but it's better than nothing. If only many of the users with all of their antique hardware (printers, cameras, scanners, etc) would only use the advisor properly, they would stay where they are until they're ready. There are many reasons to move forward, but the user must commit to moving forward with a positive attitude about the OS. Dual booting or the use of VM's will help, if you need to fall back on XP (or your previous OS). I ran XP Pro for many years prior to making the leap, it wasn't an easy choice for me, too. I had plenty of questions that I wanted answers for. I found the answers here, at Windows 7 forums, that I needed to make the leap.

But whatever you decide to do, your happiness with what you have should take priority. And if you're happy with XP, you still have nearly four years before the support ends, and can probably run it a little after that. If you're satisfied with what you have, by all means keep it. I run XP Pro myself, but 7 is my main system. XP is a little insecure for me to run daily, but I do want it as an option for when I need or want it.

 

[Core]

If you feel like there is less freedom in the Windows 7 interface now, then I recommend you never try Linux. Going from Gnome back to Windows is like replacing a Mercedes with a wheelchair; you can still get around, but you're not as free to choose how you get there.

As for 7's new themes, you can turn off the eye candy and switch to the legacy looks-like-crap mode. You can thus relive the Windows 2000 glory days all over again. With a little tinkering you should be able to switch the taskbar back to the old-fashioned style as well.

Seems to me that there are three primary gripes that new 7inductees have regarding the OS. 1) The new GUI, 2) the lack of drivers for their dot matrix printers, or the absence of ISA slots for their Turtle Beach sound cards, and 3) their 16-bit accounting software that came with Windows 95 refuses to run.

I know you don't want comments about hardware, but consider this: is it reasonable to expect Microsoft to write new native drivers for a trackball mouse that not even its own manufacturer no longer supports? If you can move the pointer around and left-click or right-click, then yes, the mouse works to the extent that you can expect Upgrade Advisor to detect that it works.

There are various things I like about 7 that make it worthwhile for me to use it over Vista or XP. I'll list a few here:

1) Better security. Our XP machine was infected by a virus despite runtime protection from AVG and Malwarebytes. The same virus executed itself on my Win7 machine which uses Security Essentials and UAC, but failed to infect the system. In terms of security, 7 is about as close as desktop Windows editions have gotten to server or Linux desktop security. The first thing you need to do with an XP installation is load it up with third-party security software. It's a headache I can live without.

2) Networking. There is a night and day difference between networking support in XP and 7. The network troubleshooter in 7 can detect and fix automatically most common problems without user input. Thanks to the Homegroup feature, I have full use of the AIO printer connected to my wife's machine from my PC without having to install OEM software. This was not the case with XP nor Vista.

3) I switched to Windows 7 when the RC came out, and I've been using it since. In the year I've used it, I have not had a single BSOD. That has not been my experience with XP.

4) 64-bit software. Yes, there was a 64-bit flavor for XP, with device drivers near impossible to find for it. Windows 7 utilizes all of the three cores and 8 GB of memory in my machine out of the box. I like that.

5) Aero Peek and Flip. It's still not as good as Expose, but it's a start.

6) Applications launch faster in 7. The OS is designed to learn which applications you use most, and to pre-fetch software components for use in anticipation. In other words, 7 learns how you work, and its reaction time improves over time, which is the direct opposite of what happens with XP.

7) Windows Search is integrated into the system. The indexing service and search function is nothing like what it was in XP. It's lightning-fast, and the indexing does not bog down my system.

8) Windows Media Center, Windows Media Player 12, ClearType, and Alt-Tab Replacement are built-in. When you install XP, you can't even play a Divx file from what I recall without downloading a codec pack. DVD playback wasn't all that fluent out of the box. I don't have to hunt down ClearType to stop my fonts from looking like shit, either.

9) Early editions of XP came with IE6. 'Nuff said. Yes, you can upgrade, but not all people do, and even to upgrade you have to get online with IE6 first, which is tantamount to bending over for soap while showering in Sing Sing.

10) You don't need to have Internet Explorer installed in order to use WindowsUpdate, because it has its own client now.

11) Excellent Bluetooth support.

12) DirectX 11.

13) Office 2010 64-bit is fantastic. XP will get 32-bit, but XP64 won't run it at all.

14) Defrag is automatic.

I'd rather go back to Vista than use XP again.

 

[DallasDad]

What numerous ways, please list a few Thrax?

There are some appearance things, but this is extremely a personal choice, and in the past they were nice enough to let you actually choose but not any more!. I like some of the stuff: AERO, the fast boot, and Clifford's quick view could be useful, but nothing that I could say justifies the expense and time I put into upgrading, I don't know what I will end up doing since I already have money invested.

My vision may be clouded because I'm stuck on a hardware issue they very likely won't encounter. But what problems will I encounter when I deliver this desktop I'm working on to the buyer. His wife loves taking and editing photographs, he and his son are into games - most I think are older games. Will his camera be able to connect? Will his joystick have drivers? How many of the games will only work in Virtual XP mode?

What I was hoping to do was hear reasons for or against upgrading, for people who might find this thread before they take what has become a huge step to me. Are they better off staying where they are until they buy their next computer? If you upgraded as opposed to buying preinstalled, what problems did you encounter? Was it worth it to you?

I'm not trying to be negative, I am looking for honest opinions and open discussion on the pros and cons.

You may not want to depend on XP mode for gaming....I was previously advised in another thread that XP mode was not a good bet for games......

"Because Virtual Machines rarely offer more than rudimentary support for 3D acceleration."
https://www.w7forums.com/windows-7-annoyances-t4808.html#post32807