So, what about this message..........

S

sothwalker

This message keeps popping up on the screen of my computer...

"The Smart AC Adapter connected will power your computer, but
potentially at a reduced performance level. Your computer is designed
to vary performance as needed when a smaller capacity Smart AC Adapter
is connected. Resource intensive tasks may cause your system not to
perform at its highest level with a smaller capacity Smart AC Adapter.
Please connect a higher capacity Smart AC Adapter for full
performance."

Would HP really sell me a computer with an underpowered power supply
or do they just want another 100 bucks or so?
 
A

Andy Burns

This message keeps popping up on the screen of my computer...

"The Smart AC Adapter connected will power your computer, but
potentially at a reduced performance level.

Has sit always said that, or just started?

If the latter, see of the thin pin inside the barrel of the power
connector is snapped/bent ...
 
P

Paul

This message keeps popping up on the screen of my computer...

"The Smart AC Adapter connected will power your computer, but
potentially at a reduced performance level. Your computer is designed
to vary performance as needed when a smaller capacity Smart AC Adapter
is connected. Resource intensive tasks may cause your system not to
perform at its highest level with a smaller capacity Smart AC Adapter.
Please connect a higher capacity Smart AC Adapter for full
performance."

Would HP really sell me a computer with an underpowered power supply
or do they just want another 100 bucks or so?
It's pretty mysterious.

http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebook-Hardware-e-g-Windows-8/Smart-AC-adapter-message/td-p/406867

Some respondents with a higher power adapter, saw the same thing.
So it's not like "feeding it another adapter for lunch",
will make it happy. Apparently it has an insatiable appetite.

Three cheers, for overengineered crap. I guess a "dumb" supply
just wouldn't do.

I'm tempted to say, Windows Update offered some update which changed
power behavior, but what do I know. Personally, I always put
Windows Update on manual, and review *everything*, no matter
how trivial, for signs of "stink". I don't take hardware drivers
from Windows Update, for example.

Since we don't know at this point, what's so "smart" about
this setup, it's pretty hard to debug it. Is there a serial link
between adapter and computer ? Does the computer just
monitor power quality coming from the adapter ? Who knows ?
I can't see any pictures of the plug end, and as near as I
can tell, it just has two contact points, for (+) and (-)
of 19V input. If there were more contacts than that, then
there'd be a path for serial communications. And then,
we'd look for a serial driver, an HP driver, look in Device
Manager for evil, and so on. But if there is no communications
with the adapter at all, it's pretty hard to imagine what they're
doing at the hardware level.

Paul
 
S

sothwalker

This message keeps popping up on the screen of my computer...

"The Smart AC Adapter connected will power your computer, but
potentially at a reduced performance level. Your computer is designed
to vary performance as needed when a smaller capacity Smart AC Adapter
is connected. Resource intensive tasks may cause your system not to
perform at its highest level with a smaller capacity Smart AC Adapter.
Please connect a higher capacity Smart AC Adapter for full
performance."

Would HP really sell me a computer with an underpowered power supply
or do they just want another 100 bucks or so?
Yes it is a laptop.

This message has been there since day 1. About 60 days ago. If you
click the message they show you some more "powerful" power supplies
you can purchase.

If the computer is short of power it hasn't been apparent.

I ran some prime number calculations the other day and all the cores
were close to 100% all the time. Had to keep a fan and a cool pad
going to keep the temperature down but otherwise everything ran fine.

Thanks for the posts. I think I will keep my money and ignore the
thing.
 
B

BillW50

This message keeps popping up on the screen of my computer...

"The Smart AC Adapter connected will power your computer, but
potentially at a reduced performance level. Your computer is designed
to vary performance as needed when a smaller capacity Smart AC Adapter
is connected. Resource intensive tasks may cause your system not to
perform at its highest level with a smaller capacity Smart AC Adapter.
Please connect a higher capacity Smart AC Adapter for full
performance."

Would HP really sell me a computer with an underpowered power supply
or do they just want another 100 bucks or so?
I take it that this is a laptop? Yup, if so, that is what it means.
Anything with the word "smart" in it never turns out very smart if you
ask me. Just ask anybody who had purchased a Smart TV.

Smart TVs can spy on their owners — RT
http://rt.com/usa/news/smart-tv-security-access-092/
 
B

BillW50

Yes it is a laptop.

This message has been there since day 1. About 60 days ago. If you
click the message they show you some more "powerful" power supplies
you can purchase.

If the computer is short of power it hasn't been apparent.

I ran some prime number calculations the other day and all the cores
were close to 100% all the time. Had to keep a fan and a cool pad
going to keep the temperature down but otherwise everything ran fine.

Thanks for the posts. I think I will keep my money and ignore the
thing.
Both AMD (PowerNow) and Intel (SpeedStep) use CPUs that can switch
speeds. Sounds like a good idea and all. I think it is a good idea in
theory. After all, sometimes my computers are just idling and doing not
much at all. And they shift (if I let them) to low power mode. And when
they need more power, switch to full power or something in between.

In practice, sometimes there is a short lag or worse. Worse is that some
programs don't like it at all. Some programs can actually crash during
the switching. Sure blame the third party if you like and maybe rightly
so. But some things work fine if the CPU doesn't switch speeds and
crashes if they do.

People who fly a lot on flights with laptops has seen this lack of power
problem. As airlines only allow like only 90 watts of power and that is
it. And some laptops work fine and some will refuse to operate while
charging at the same time. So many of them will work fine, but won't
charge the battery at the same time.

In your case, I don't know why the report is performance is less than it
could be. Although if it were me, I would check to see if the CPU was
running at full speed or not. It isn't a bad thing if it isn't, it
depends on what you are doing. It could be that it is operating fine,
but won't charge the battery while it is running too. There are lots of
utilities out there to check the speed including Windows itself. If you
want to check, just ask. It would help if we knew the CPU too.
 
S

sothwalker

Both AMD (PowerNow) and Intel (SpeedStep) use CPUs that can switch
speeds. Sounds like a good idea and all. I think it is a good idea in
theory. After all, sometimes my computers are just idling and doing not
much at all. And they shift (if I let them) to low power mode. And when
they need more power, switch to full power or something in between.

In practice, sometimes there is a short lag or worse. Worse is that some
programs don't like it at all. Some programs can actually crash during
the switching. Sure blame the third party if you like and maybe rightly
so. But some things work fine if the CPU doesn't switch speeds and
crashes if they do.

People who fly a lot on flights with laptops has seen this lack of power
problem. As airlines only allow like only 90 watts of power and that is
it. And some laptops work fine and some will refuse to operate while
charging at the same time. So many of them will work fine, but won't
charge the battery at the same time.

In your case, I don't know why the report is performance is less than it
could be. Although if it were me, I would check to see if the CPU was
running at full speed or not. It isn't a bad thing if it isn't, it
depends on what you are doing. It could be that it is operating fine,
but won't charge the battery while it is running too. There are lots of
utilities out there to check the speed including Windows itself. If you
want to check, just ask. It would help if we knew the CPU too.
It would be interesting to see the actual clock speed. I use Core Temp
to monitor the temperature of the cores and it shows the load on each
core. Just checked with some math applications running and the load
varies between 3% and 85%. The power usage is also shown and it varies
with the core changes, with 3 watts being the least and 17 watts the
most I have noticed recently. There is a constant switching of the
load, every second, because I have the programs throttled back to keep
the heat down.

I have now told you all I know about the techie stuff and more than I
understand.
The notebook is a

HP DV7-63b with 32GB of memory
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit Service Pack 1
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2630QM CPU @ 2.00GHz
System Board 1800 10.5A

I would appreciate the name of some software that would measure the
actual speed of the processors.

Thanks.
 
P

Paul

It would be interesting to see the actual clock speed. I use Core Temp
to monitor the temperature of the cores and it shows the load on each
core. Just checked with some math applications running and the load
varies between 3% and 85%. The power usage is also shown and it varies
with the core changes, with 3 watts being the least and 17 watts the
most I have noticed recently. There is a constant switching of the
load, every second, because I have the programs throttled back to keep
the heat down.

I have now told you all I know about the techie stuff and more than I
understand.
The notebook is a

HP DV7-63b with 32GB of memory
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit Service Pack 1
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2630QM CPU @ 2.00GHz
System Board 1800 10.5A

I would appreciate the name of some software that would measure the
actual speed of the processors.

Thanks.
CPUZ will do that.

Use the "no install" version and run CPUZ.exe

http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html

When the computer is idle, CPUZ presents a low enough load, to
not interfere with EIST. For example, the multiplier
on my processor varies from 6 to 9 (2GHz to 3GHz). If
the desktop is idle, CPUZ reads 2GHz. If I load up Prime95
so the processor is busy, then EIST uses the top multiplier,
and CPUZ reads out 3GHz. The activity from CPUZ itself, is not
supposed to peg the processor at 3GHz.

Another tool is RMClock, which can detect "throttling".
It's still at version 2.35, so I don't know if it has
been updated to account for any Windows 8 differences for
example. Throttling happens, if the processor is getting too hot.
Not a lot of other utilities, read out that bit.

http://cpu.rightmark.org/download.shtml

And this article walks through RMClock in action. The colorful
graphs are nice, but they could use some X-axis and Y-axis legends.

http://ixbtlabs.com/articles2/cpu/intel-thermal-features-core2.html

Paul
 
J

Jeff Layman

It would be interesting to see the actual clock speed. I use Core Temp
to monitor the temperature of the cores and it shows the load on each
core. Just checked with some math applications running and the load
varies between 3% and 85%. The power usage is also shown and it varies
with the core changes, with 3 watts being the least and 17 watts the
most I have noticed recently. There is a constant switching of the
load, every second, because I have the programs throttled back to keep
the heat down.

I have now told you all I know about the techie stuff and more than I
understand.
The notebook is a

HP DV7-63b with 32GB of memory
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit Service Pack 1
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2630QM CPU @ 2.00GHz
System Board 1800 10.5A

I would appreciate the name of some software that would measure the
actual speed of the processors.

Thanks.
I find that Speccy is quite useful for reporting on my laptop:
http://www.piriform.com/speccy

If your laptop is only a couple of months old, what does HP support say
about the Smart AC Adapter message continually appearing?

I guess you could check using Task Manager to see if there is a
particular process or service which is responsible for the message. If
it's a service which starts automatically, you could try disabling it
(if you are confident that in doing so you won't give yourself
additional problems). If it's a process, Process Explorer might be of
use (http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896653).
 
S

sothwalker

I find that Speccy is quite useful for reporting on my laptop:
http://www.piriform.com/speccy

If your laptop is only a couple of months old, what does HP support say
about the Smart AC Adapter message continually appearing?

I guess you could check using Task Manager to see if there is a
particular process or service which is responsible for the message. If
it's a service which starts automatically, you could try disabling it
(if you are confident that in doing so you won't give yourself
additional problems). If it's a process, Process Explorer might be of
use (http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896653).

The message appears as a bubble and only at start. The more I think
about it I believe it is a sales gimmick.

I haven't spoken with HP support but I think I will.
 
B

BillW50

It would be interesting to see the actual clock speed. I use Core Temp
to monitor the temperature of the cores and it shows the load on each
core. Just checked with some math applications running and the load
varies between 3% and 85%. The power usage is also shown and it varies
with the core changes, with 3 watts being the least and 17 watts the
most I have noticed recently. There is a constant switching of the
load, every second, because I have the programs throttled back to keep
the heat down.

I have now told you all I know about the techie stuff and more than I
understand.
The notebook is a

HP DV7-63b with 32GB of memory
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit Service Pack 1
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2630QM CPU @ 2.00GHz
System Board 1800 10.5A

I would appreciate the name of some software that would measure the
actual speed of the processors.

Thanks.
I really like BattStat. It is very small (around 300kb) and loaded full
of neat stuff. The bright green line in the graph is the speed. If it
stays at the top, it is running at full power all of the time. It even
has an icon in the notification area. That tiny gas gauge thing also
shows the speed of the CPU. It even reports how worn out your battery
is. And the hits the processor at way under 1%. So no problem there.

BattStat - Battery Status monitor and power management (freeware)
http://users.rcn.com/tmtalpey/BattStat/
 
S

sothwalker

CPUZ will do that.

Use the "no install" version and run CPUZ.exe

http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html

When the computer is idle, CPUZ presents a low enough load, to
not interfere with EIST. For example, the multiplier
on my processor varies from 6 to 9 (2GHz to 3GHz). If
the desktop is idle, CPUZ reads 2GHz. If I load up Prime95
so the processor is busy, then EIST uses the top multiplier,
and CPUZ reads out 3GHz. The activity from CPUZ itself, is not
supposed to peg the processor at 3GHz.

Another tool is RMClock, which can detect "throttling".
It's still at version 2.35, so I don't know if it has
been updated to account for any Windows 8 differences for
example. Throttling happens, if the processor is getting too hot.
Not a lot of other utilities, read out that bit.

http://cpu.rightmark.org/download.shtml

And this article walks through RMClock in action. The colorful
graphs are nice, but they could use some X-axis and Y-axis legends.

http://ixbtlabs.com/articles2/cpu/intel-thermal-features-core2.html

Paul
I got CPUZ running and with and am assuming I should be looking at the
Core Speed. If so, the lowest I see is 798 with a multiplier of 8.
The speed and the multiplier jumps around, sometimes it is 12xx or
15xx and occasionally 25xx The multiplier increases with the core
speed and at 25xx with be 16

Am I looking at the correct thing?
 
B

BillW50

I got CPUZ running and with and am assuming I should be looking at the
Core Speed. If so, the lowest I see is 798 with a multiplier of 8.
The speed and the multiplier jumps around, sometimes it is 12xx or
15xx and occasionally 25xx The multiplier increases with the core
speed and at 25xx with be 16

Am I looking at the correct thing?
I too use CPUZ. Although it is more of a tool for very experienced
users. BattStat will give you what you need in plain English. ;-)
 
P

Paul

I got CPUZ running and with and am assuming I should be looking at the
Core Speed. If so, the lowest I see is 798 with a multiplier of 8.
The speed and the multiplier jumps around, sometimes it is 12xx or
15xx and occasionally 25xx The multiplier increases with the core
speed and at 25xx with be 16

Am I looking at the correct thing?
http://ark.intel.com/products/52219...Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-2_90-GHz?q=i7-2630QM

I suspect the processor considers BCLK to be 100MHz at all times.
The ratio in the Intel page suggest 100x20 is nominal, for 2GHz when
all cores are running flat out. The thing has Turbo though, which
triggers if fewer cores are busy. Like maybe with one core running
SuperPI, it would hit a multiplier of 29 on the one core. Now,
when CPUZ makes that measurement, it's going to use one of the
other cores for a fraction of a second, which might cause
the processor to hop out of Turbo mode, so the multiplier
might then drop to 20. That makes it hard to predict exactly
what you'll see.

Try running SuperPI at the same time (ask it to compute 32M digits),
and see whether CPUZ gives a value between 20x multiplier and 29x.

http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/366/Super_PI_Mod_v1.5.html

That program is ancient, and the source for it was lost. It
was originally written in Japan. The version we have today,
exists as a binary edit (meaning, functional changes were
made by manually adding instructions to the binary). It's
one of a suite of programs that enthusiasts use for
benching. And in this case, I suggest using it because
it is single threaded, and it might manage to keep
your processor in Turbo mode long enough, for you
to see a "29x" value in CPUZ.

Paul
 
S

sothwalker

http://ark.intel.com/products/52219...Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-2_90-GHz?q=i7-2630QM

I suspect the processor considers BCLK to be 100MHz at all times.
The ratio in the Intel page suggest 100x20 is nominal, for 2GHz when
all cores are running flat out. The thing has Turbo though, which
triggers if fewer cores are busy. Like maybe with one core running
SuperPI, it would hit a multiplier of 29 on the one core. Now,
when CPUZ makes that measurement, it's going to use one of the
other cores for a fraction of a second, which might cause
the processor to hop out of Turbo mode, so the multiplier
might then drop to 20. That makes it hard to predict exactly
what you'll see.

Try running SuperPI at the same time (ask it to compute 32M digits),
and see whether CPUZ gives a value between 20x multiplier and 29x.

http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/366/Super_PI_Mod_v1.5.html

That program is ancient, and the source for it was lost. It
was originally written in Japan. The version we have today,
exists as a binary edit (meaning, functional changes were
made by manually adding instructions to the binary). It's
one of a suite of programs that enthusiasts use for
benching. And in this case, I suggest using it because
it is single threaded, and it might manage to keep
your processor in Turbo mode long enough, for you
to see a "29x" value in CPUZ.

Paul

Thanks Paul I will give it a try. Going to be a few days though. I
have to install a new SSD.
 
S

sothwalker

This message keeps popping up on the screen of my computer...

"The Smart AC Adapter connected will power your computer, but
potentially at a reduced performance level. Your computer is designed
to vary performance as needed when a smaller capacity Smart AC Adapter
is connected. Resource intensive tasks may cause your system not to
perform at its highest level with a smaller capacity Smart AC Adapter.
Please connect a higher capacity Smart AC Adapter for full
performance."

Would HP really sell me a computer with an underpowered power supply
or do they just want another 100 bucks or so?
I asked HP about the message and the explanation was that although
this message is built into every machine like mine it actually only
pertains to those notebooks which are supplied with an external power
supply that supplies a voltage of less that 125 volts, typically 60
volts. I should ignore it.

This raises more questions but I have decided to let sleeping dogs
lie.
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

I asked HP about the message and the explanation was that although
this message is built into every machine like mine it actually only
pertains to those notebooks which are supplied with an external power
supply that supplies a voltage of less that 125 volts, typically 60
volts. I should ignore it.

This raises more questions but I have decided to let sleeping dogs
lie.
Did you mean watts, rather than volts?

Typically, laptop power supplies provide around 18 to 20 volts (DC, by
the way); there is some variation, but not 40 to 100 volts worth :)
 
S

sothwalker

Did you mean watts, rather than volts?

Typically, laptop power supplies provide around 18 to 20 volts (DC, by
the way); there is some variation, but not 40 to 100 volts worth :)
Hard to say what she meant, English wasn't her first and might not
have been her second language.

I took it meant that some power supplies had an input of 60 volts
which I found confusing but after the long time I had been online, I
really didn't want to pursue it.

It could be that whomever she went to for an answer just made it up.
Wouldn't be a first time for that.
 
P

Paul

Hard to say what she meant, English wasn't her first and might not
have been her second language.

I took it meant that some power supplies had an input of 60 volts
which I found confusing but after the long time I had been online, I
really didn't want to pursue it.

It could be that whomever she went to for an answer just made it up.
Wouldn't be a first time for that.
The units would be watts, a power rating. A 125W brick would
presumably be physically bigger than a 65W brick. State of the
art power conversion equipment has a "watts per cubic inch limit",
as to what is physically possible. The watts is what makes it warm.

As Gene says, the DC voltage flowing from the adapter, could be
the same as the highest regulated voltage inside the computer.
Some mini-ITX motherboards work that way. But on a laptop,
they use a voltage which is higher than the highest regulated
voltage needed, which means the laptop takes in 18-20V, but
uses it to charge say, a 14.4V battery pack or provide 12V to a VCore
circuit or whatever. There's a whole chain of "voltage-handling"
in the box.

The advantage of using a higher DC voltage, is that reduces the
current flow. Say you want a 65W adapter. You arbitrarily set
the intermediate (adapter cable) voltage to 18V. 65W/18V = 3.6 amps.
The wire of the adapter cable, has to have a wire gauge selected,
to carry that level of current flow. The barrel connector that
plugs into the laptop, needs that 3.6 amp or more rating too.
The trade-offs are, a higher voltage means fewer amps, but a higher
voltage eventually becomes a safety concern. There are standards
that define what voltages are "safe" for consumer goods.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SELV#Separated_or_safety_extra-low_voltage_.28SELV.29

Bumping up the watts, bumps up the amperes, makes the barrel
connector potentially larger. That is, if you wanted a
common voltage for both adapters, so they were interchangeable.
A 65W adapter could be 18V at 3.6A, while a 125W compatible
adapter could be 18V at 6.9A. Being the same voltage, you
could interchange the two adapters (connector willing).
The amps rating, is a maximum amps, and at any given time,
the laptop could draw 0..3.6A, any value between those limits.

I get the impression, some battery charging circuits use
linear regulation techniques. And something in there can
overheat, if you use a slightly different adapter voltage.

It doesn't have to work that way. But if the laptop designer
knows the provided wall adapter outputs between 17.5V and 18.5V,
the designer could look at that range of numbers, and decide
whether a linear or an SMPS technique was needed for
conversion, to charge the battery. And in the interest of
shaving a few dollars off product cost, could in the scheme
of things, limit the adapter to a small range of voltages.
With SMPS, you could arrange the computer to run off a wide range,
like 12V to 30V, without smoking anything. If, on the other hand,
they take advantage of the well-regulated adapter, they can give
the laptop a strict 17.5 to 18.5V input voltage range.
Then, it's on the owners head, if they buy a 20V Ebay adapter,
and the motherboard fries a month later.

So when you buy an adapter, it may be difficult to get a
precise spec for the laptop, as to what it was designed
to tolerate. For the engineer who designed the laptop,
they had a 17.5V and 18.5V voltage range to work with
(the provided adapter), and that's all they really cared
about. They didn't worry about "can I plug that into
the marine battery system on my cabin cruiser". The laptop
just has to work with the provided adapter.

Paul
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

Hard to say what she meant, English wasn't her first and might not
have been her second language.

I took it meant that some power supplies had an input of 60 volts
which I found confusing but after the long time I had been online, I
really didn't want to pursue it.

It could be that whomever she went to for an answer just made it up.
Wouldn't be a first time for that.
Understood - with a smile :)
 

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