Shutdown problem

[Robin Bignall]

Until 3 or 4 days ago clicking on shutdown gave an instant 'ping' sound
and shutdown took a few seconds. Now, clicking on it does nothing at
all for at least 5 seconds, then up comes a sort of error screen with
something like "Windows is trying to close background programs", with a
"Force shutdown" and some other button downscreen. Then the 'ping' and,
finally, shutdown. Unfortunately that screen flashes up for a second
and it doesn't name the program causing the problem.
I haven't installed anything new or changed any of Windows' settings, as
far as I know. Anybody got any ideas?

 

[Michael Swift]

Until 3 or 4 days ago clicking on shutdown gave an instant 'ping' sound and
shutdown took a few seconds. Now, clicking on it does nothing at all for at
least 5 seconds, then up comes a sort of error screen with something like
"Windows is trying to close background programs", with a "Force
shutdown" and some other button downscreen. Then the 'ping' and, finally,
shutdown. Unfortunately that screen flashes up for a second and it doesn't
name the program causing the problem. I haven't installed anything new or
changed any of Windows' settings, as far as I know. Anybody got any
ideas?

On my system when this happens it blames Sidebar, now I don't run this
that I know of but I do run one Gadget, the Kespersky dashboard, so I
wonder if this is somehow connected to Sidebar, just a thought until
someone who knows comes along.

Mike

 

[SC Tom]

Until 3 or 4 days ago clicking on shutdown gave an instant 'ping' sound
and shutdown took a few seconds. Now, clicking on it does nothing at
all for at least 5 seconds, then up comes a sort of error screen with
something like "Windows is trying to close background programs", with a
"Force shutdown" and some other button downscreen. Then the 'ping' and,
finally, shutdown. Unfortunately that screen flashes up for a second
and it doesn't name the program causing the problem.
I haven't installed anything new or changed any of Windows' settings, as
far as I know. Anybody got any ideas?

When mine was doing that, it was usually Sound that Explorer was waiting on.
By doing away with the Windows Exit sound, I haven't had a "waiting on"
error since.

 

[Big Steel]

Until 3 or 4 days ago clicking on shutdown gave an instant 'ping' sound
and shutdown took a few seconds. Now, clicking on it does nothing at
all for at least 5 seconds, then up comes a sort of error screen with
something like "Windows is trying to close background programs", with a
"Force shutdown" and some other button downscreen. Then the 'ping' and,
finally, shutdown. Unfortunately that screen flashes up for a second
and it doesn't name the program causing the problem.
I haven't installed anything new or changed any of Windows' settings, as
far as I know. Anybody got any ideas?

A program can be left hanging I guess, and the O/S must force the
termination of program before it shuts down the O/S. I know this happens
where the O/S must force the termination of a program like Visual Studio
that I have left open when doing a shutdown.

Is it a big deal? I would say not. If the O/S never shuts down, then I
think you would have a problem.

 

[Gene Wirchenko]

[snip]

A program can be left hanging I guess, and the O/S must force the
termination of program before it shuts down the O/S. I know this happens
where the O/S must force the termination of a program like Visual Studio
that I have left open when doing a shutdown.

Is it a big deal? I would say not. If the O/S never shuts down, then I
think you would have a problem.

But a shutdown is required on some updates, so the problem might
still strike.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

 

[Robin Bignall]

[snip]

A program can be left hanging I guess, and the O/S must force the
termination of program before it shuts down the O/S. I know this happens
where the O/S must force the termination of a program like Visual Studio
that I have left open when doing a shutdown.

Is it a big deal? I would say not. If the O/S never shuts down, then I
think you would have a problem.

But a shutdown is required on some updates, so the problem might
still strike.

It shuts down eventually, so Big Steel is right. It doesn't matter
much, but I'm just curious to find what's suddenly changed in the past
few days (unless it's a Windows update). Tonight, cycling through
logging off and then on to my wife's non-administrator account (yes, it
affects that too) I caught a glimpse of the program or whatever that was
stopping it: hidden_xxx is what I saw (didn't get the xxx and couldn't
repeat it). I've used Everything to search for hidden_ and found only a
few graphics files, nothing executable. I've run Kaspersky, SAS and
Panda Activescan2 to see if I've caught anything, but apparently not.
Puzzling!

 

[AlDrake]

[snip]

A program can be left hanging I guess, and the O/S must force the
termination of program before it shuts down the O/S. I know this happens
where the O/S must force the termination of a program like Visual Studio
that I have left open when doing a shutdown.

Is it a big deal? I would say not. If the O/S never shuts down, then I
think you would have a problem.

But a shutdown is required on some updates, so the problem might
still strike.

It shuts down eventually, so Big Steel is right. It doesn't matter
much, but I'm just curious to find what's suddenly changed in the past
few days (unless it's a Windows update). Tonight, cycling through
logging off and then on to my wife's non-administrator account (yes, it
affects that too) I caught a glimpse of the program or whatever that was
stopping it: hidden_xxx is what I saw (didn't get the xxx and couldn't
repeat it). I've used Everything to search for hidden_ and found only a
few graphics files, nothing executable. I've run Kaspersky, SAS and
Panda Activescan2 to see if I've caught anything, but apparently not.
Puzzling!

Try Cntrl-Alt-Delete and see is anything is running and shut down from
there.

 

[Robin Bignall]

[snip]

A program can be left hanging I guess, and the O/S must force the
termination of program before it shuts down the O/S. I know this happens
where the O/S must force the termination of a program like Visual Studio
that I have left open when doing a shutdown.

Is it a big deal? I would say not. If the O/S never shuts down, thenI
think you would have a problem.

But a shutdown is required on some updates, so the problem might
still strike.

It shuts down eventually, so Big Steel is right. It doesn't matter
much, but I'm just curious to find what's suddenly changed in the past
few days (unless it's a Windows update). Tonight, cycling through
logging off and then on to my wife's non-administrator account (yes, it
affects that too) I caught a glimpse of the program or whatever that was
stopping it: hidden_xxx is what I saw (didn't get the xxx and couldn't
repeat it). I've used Everything to search for hidden_ and found onlya
few graphics files, nothing executable. I've run Kaspersky, SAS and
Panda Activescan2 to see if I've caught anything, but apparently not.
Puzzling!

Try Cntrl-Alt-Delete and see is anything is running and shut down from
there.

Dozens of processes and services, but nothing with 'hidden' in it. I'll
try shutting down from there later.

 

[Robin Bignall]

[snip]

A program can be left hanging I guess, and the O/S must force the
termination of program before it shuts down the O/S. I know this happens
where the O/S must force the termination of a program like Visual Studio
that I have left open when doing a shutdown.

Is it a big deal? I would say not. If the O/S never shuts down, then I
think you would have a problem.

But a shutdown is required on some updates, so the problem might
still strike.

The OP didn't say it never shutdown. It's just slow that it shutdown.
But nevertheless, the O/S shutdown. I also think that during a shutdown
on an update, then what was being updated prior to the shutdown has
taken place. So I think a power off or pushing the reset-button will
continue the update process on the reboot. The O/S is not that dumb.

It's nothing to do with updates. Happens every logoff/shutdown for all
users.

I did a ctrl-alt-del and logged off from that screen. Got the "Waiting
for background programs to close" screen and then something went wrong
and got the name of whatever is causing it: Hidden_d3d window. Can't
find any such thing with Everything.

 

[Paul]

[snip]

A program can be left hanging I guess, and the O/S must force the
termination of program before it shuts down the O/S. I know this happens
where the O/S must force the termination of a program like Visual Studio
that I have left open when doing a shutdown.

Is it a big deal? I would say not. If the O/S never shuts down, then I
think you would have a problem.
But a shutdown is required on some updates, so the problem might
still strike.

The OP didn't say it never shutdown. It's just slow that it shutdown.
But nevertheless, the O/S shutdown. I also think that during a shutdown
on an update, then what was being updated prior to the shutdown has
taken place. So I think a power off or pushing the reset-button will
continue the update process on the reboot. The O/S is not that dumb.

It's nothing to do with updates. Happens every logoff/shutdown for all
users.

I did a ctrl-alt-del and logged off from that screen. Got the "Waiting
for background programs to close" screen and then something went wrong
and got the name of whatever is causing it: Hidden_d3d window. Can't
find any such thing with Everything.

There's a reference to some Logitech software here.

http://forums.majorgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=263797

Paul

 

[Char Jackson]

[snip]

A program can be left hanging I guess, and the O/S must force the
termination of program before it shuts down the O/S. I know this happens
where the O/S must force the termination of a program like Visual Studio
that I have left open when doing a shutdown.

Is it a big deal? I would say not. If the O/S never shuts down, then I
think you would have a problem.

But a shutdown is required on some updates, so the problem might
still strike.

The OP didn't say it never shutdown. It's just slow that it shutdown.
But nevertheless, the O/S shutdown. I also think that during a shutdown
on an update, then what was being updated prior to the shutdown has
taken place. So I think a power off or pushing the reset-button will
continue the update process on the reboot. The O/S is not that dumb.

It's nothing to do with updates. Happens every logoff/shutdown for all
users.

I did a ctrl-alt-del and logged off from that screen. Got the "Waiting
for background programs to close" screen and then something went wrong
and got the name of whatever is causing it: Hidden_d3d window. Can't
find any such thing with Everything.

d3d sounds like Direct3D, an aspect of your video system. Have you
tried sites such as this one, that deals with d3d errors?
<http://storefront.steampowered.com/... Help/Direct_X/_Direct3D__or__D3D__Errors.htm>

 

[Robin Bignall]

On 10/16/2012 6:23 PM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
[snip]

A program can be left hanging I guess, and the O/S must force the
termination of program before it shuts down the O/S. I know this happens
where the O/S must force the termination of a program like Visual Studio
that I have left open when doing a shutdown.

Is it a big deal? I would say not. If the O/S never shuts down, then I
think you would have a problem.
But a shutdown is required on some updates, so the problem might
still strike.


The OP didn't say it never shutdown. It's just slow that it shutdown.
But nevertheless, the O/S shutdown. I also think that during a shutdown
on an update, then what was being updated prior to the shutdown has
taken place. So I think a power off or pushing the reset-button will
continue the update process on the reboot. The O/S is not that dumb.

It's nothing to do with updates. Happens every logoff/shutdown for all
users.

I did a ctrl-alt-del and logged off from that screen. Got the "Waiting
for background programs to close" screen and then something went wrong
and got the name of whatever is causing it: Hidden_d3d window. Can't
find any such thing with Everything.

There's a reference to some Logitech software here.

http://forums.majorgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=263797

This is definitely it, Paul. Logitech sent me a new driver last week
and I discovered yet another new one just now. The problem has been
reduced but has not gone away. The answers from Logitech in the above
link apply to heavy use of CPU cycles by some scroll function that is
not an add-on in IE on my system. Shutting down the Logitech
application before shutdown does not remove the problem.

 

[Robin Bignall]

On 10/16/2012 6:23 PM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
[snip]

A program can be left hanging I guess, and the O/S must force the
termination of program before it shuts down the O/S. I know this happens
where the O/S must force the termination of a program like Visual Studio
that I have left open when doing a shutdown.

Is it a big deal? I would say not. If the O/S never shuts down, then I
think you would have a problem.

But a shutdown is required on some updates, so the problem might
still strike.


The OP didn't say it never shutdown. It's just slow that it shutdown.
But nevertheless, the O/S shutdown. I also think that during a shutdown
on an update, then what was being updated prior to the shutdown has
taken place. So I think a power off or pushing the reset-button will
continue the update process on the reboot. The O/S is not that dumb.

It's nothing to do with updates. Happens every logoff/shutdown for all
users.

I did a ctrl-alt-del and logged off from that screen. Got the "Waiting
for background programs to close" screen and then something went wrong
and got the name of whatever is causing it: Hidden_d3d window. Can't
find any such thing with Everything.

d3d sounds like Direct3D, an aspect of your video system. Have you
tried sites such as this one, that deals with d3d errors?
<http://storefront.steampowered.com/... Help/Direct_X/_Direct3D__or__D3D__Errors.htm>

I have checked in my Nvidia settings and there's no mention of Direct3D
anywhere. In addition, the following is mentioned:
"On the Display tab, make sure that Direct3D Acceleration is set to
Enabled.
Click the Enable button if it is set to Disabled."

I don't know which 'display' this is, but if it's control panel, there's
no mention of it. I expect my graphics card doesn't support it but I
don't own or play any games.

 

[Char Jackson]

On 10/16/2012 6:23 PM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
[snip]

A program can be left hanging I guess, and the O/S must force the
termination of program before it shuts down the O/S. I know this happens
where the O/S must force the termination of a program like Visual Studio
that I have left open when doing a shutdown.

Is it a big deal? I would say not. If the O/S never shuts down, then I
think you would have a problem.

But a shutdown is required on some updates, so the problem might
still strike.


The OP didn't say it never shutdown. It's just slow that it shutdown.
But nevertheless, the O/S shutdown. I also think that during a shutdown
on an update, then what was being updated prior to the shutdown has
taken place. So I think a power off or pushing the reset-button will
continue the update process on the reboot. The O/S is not that dumb.

It's nothing to do with updates. Happens every logoff/shutdown for all
users.

I did a ctrl-alt-del and logged off from that screen. Got the "Waiting
for background programs to close" screen and then something went wrong
and got the name of whatever is causing it: Hidden_d3d window. Can't
find any such thing with Everything.

d3d sounds like Direct3D, an aspect of your video system. Have you
tried sites such as this one, that deals with d3d errors?
<http://storefront.steampowered.com/... Help/Direct_X/_Direct3D__or__D3D__Errors.htm>

I have checked in my Nvidia settings and there's no mention of Direct3D
anywhere. In addition, the following is mentioned:
"On the Display tab, make sure that Direct3D Acceleration is set to
Enabled.
Click the Enable button if it is set to Disabled."

I don't know which 'display' this is, but if it's control panel, there's
no mention of it. I expect my graphics card doesn't support it but I
don't own or play any games.

I also have an Nvidia card, so in my Windows 7 Control Panel there's
an applet called NVIDIA Control Panel. The 3D options, including
program-specific options, are in there (on mine, anyway).

Beyond that, I have no idea which application might need to have a
hidden window, or what its purpose might be. Weird kind of frame
buffer, perhaps?

 

[Robin Bignall]

On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 00:35:41 +0100, Robin Bignall


On 10/16/2012 6:23 PM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
[snip]

A program can be left hanging I guess, and the O/S must force the
termination of program before it shuts down the O/S. I know this happens
where the O/S must force the termination of a program like VisualStudio
that I have left open when doing a shutdown.

Is it a big deal? I would say not. If the O/S never shuts down, then I
think you would have a problem.

But a shutdown is required on some updates, so the problem might
still strike.


The OP didn't say it never shutdown. It's just slow that it shutdown.
But nevertheless, the O/S shutdown. I also think that during a shutdown
on an update, then what was being updated prior to the shutdown has
taken place. So I think a power off or pushing the reset-button will
continue the update process on the reboot. The O/S is not that dumb.

It's nothing to do with updates. Happens every logoff/shutdown for all
users.

I did a ctrl-alt-del and logged off from that screen. Got the "Waiting
for background programs to close" screen and then something went wrong
and got the name of whatever is causing it: Hidden_d3d window. Can't
find any such thing with Everything.

d3d sounds like Direct3D, an aspect of your video system. Have you
tried sites such as this one, that deals with d3d errors?
<http://storefront.steampowered.com/... Help/Direct_X/_Direct3D__or__D3D__Errors.htm>

I have checked in my Nvidia settings and there's no mention of Direct3D
anywhere. In addition, the following is mentioned:
"On the Display tab, make sure that Direct3D Acceleration is set to
Enabled.
Click the Enable button if it is set to Disabled."

I don't know which 'display' this is, but if it's control panel, there's
no mention of it. I expect my graphics card doesn't support it but I
don't own or play any games.

I also have an Nvidia card, so in my Windows 7 Control Panel there's
an applet called NVIDIA Control Panel. The 3D options, including
program-specific options, are in there (on mine, anyway).

Sorry, yes I've got those, and dxdiag shows D3D working properly.

Beyond that, I have no idea which application might need to have a
hidden window, or what its purpose might be. Weird kind of frame
buffer, perhaps?

No idea. If I exit from all of the programs in the notification area
before log off, the problem goes away. So tomorrow when I'm feeling
fresher I'll exit them one by one and try to narrow it down.

 

[Robin Bignall]

No idea. If I exit from all of the programs in the notification area
before log off, the problem goes away. So tomorrow when I'm feeling
fresher I'll exit them one by one and try to narrow it down.

Well, I know what is happening, but not why. Char and Paul are both
right: it's an interaction between the Nvidia driver and the Logitech
Setpoint driver. If I exit either before logging off, I get the delay
and "Waiting for background programs to close" screen.

If I exit them both, logoff proceeds normally with no delays. How to
fix that I have no idea.

 

[Robin Bignall]

Well, I know what is happening, but not why. Char and Paul are both
right: it's an interaction between the Nvidia driver and the Logitech
Setpoint driver. If I exit either before logging off, I get the delay
and "Waiting for background programs to close" screen.

If I exit them both, logoff proceeds normally with no delays. How to
fix that I have no idea.

All the above verified many times today. It's a weirdo.

How can two drivers interact such that they set up something that takes
a while to close, even when either one of them is closed?

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

All the above verified many times today. It's a weirdo.

How can two drivers interact such that they set up something that takes
a while to close, even when either one of them is closed?

The mouse cursor is shown on the display, and mouse actions affect the
display in various ways. It is normal (necessary) for the mouse and the
display to interact.

Of course, that doesn't say why they are interacting that way, it just
indicates that it is not necessarily weird for them to interact.

Have you tried different ways of shutting down to see if the behavior
changes? What I mean by different ways is this:

1. Windows key, arrow key, enter.

2. Mouse click on orb, then mouse click on shutdown

3. Alt-F4 (or whatever it is)

4. Ctrl-Alt-Del and select shutdown (the red "switch" at the lower right

And anything I forgot or don't know about

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

<SNIP>

Here's the missing parenthesis: )

Please insert it in my reply as needed

 

[Robin Bignall]

<SNIP>

Here's the missing parenthesis: )

Please insert it in my reply as needed

Done.
The answer to your questions is 'yes, in a way'. The delay actually
occurs during logging off, which is a precursor to shutting down, and I
only know one way of logging off. The shutting down after log off is
not affected.
The interaction between Nvidia and Logitech sets something in place that
takes 5-8 seconds to close at log off, but which stays in place if
either one of them is closed before log off. Closing both before log
off removes that something.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England

ps: My taskbar background colour has just changed spontaneously from
dark blue to light blue. It's done that before and just as I was typing
now it changed back.