Phone Home

[Andrew]

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=1788&tag=wrapper;col1

 

[Char Jackson]

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=1788&tag=wrapper;col1

Wow, that is some serious spin Ed Bott has going there. He redefines
the concept of "phone home", stretching it to the point where it
becomes completely unrecognizable.

The comments are interesting, too, especially where Mr. Bott tries to
defend himself and repeatedly fails.

 

[SC Tom]

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=1788&tag=wrapper;col1

<yawn> Old news.

 

[DanS]

No one, not you, nor any the responders to his article, has posted any
verifiable empirical data to factually refute what he posted.
If you can, post a factual refute that is verifiable ok?

And there is no factual data that everything he says is true either, so
what's your point.

Until the update is released, and the WAT process is picked apart by
others, no one really knows except the team that designed WAT.

I'm fairly certain Bott wasn't on that team, and the information he is
passing along is nothing more than information released by MS and repeated
by him.

 

[DanS]

And there is no factual data that everything he says is true either,
so what's your point.

Until the update is released, and the WAT process is picked apart by
others, no one really knows except the team that designed WAT.

I'm fairly certain Bott wasn't on that team, and the information he is
passing along is nothing more than information released by MS and
repeated by him.

And actually, after further reading that linked article, that is *EXACTLY*
what happened.

Bott was called a shill and he responded.....

"Actually, I called them. I had questions, so I called them and got
answers.

That's called reporting."

 

[John Aldred]

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=1788&tag=wrapper;col1

I'm afraid that my simple mind doesn't follow the logic behind this exercise
by Microsoft.

If it is possible to decline to take the WAT update, then those running
hacked copies if Win7, (and those with privacy/false positive concerns)
will simply not install it.

The vast majority of users will have Win 7 pre-installed on their machines
by the OEM. A small percentage of users such as myself, may have been
sufficiently impressed by the beta to purchase an upgrade from a reputable
supplier.

So who is Microsoft targeting with this exercise?
I guess it is those who have unwittingly purchased a pirate copy and will
find out to their cost in the near future.
But is this such a huge number as to make it worthwile risking bad publicity
and causing disquiet among their user base?

 

[Andrew]

<yawn> Old news.

Yeah the news is old, it was this take on it I wanted to share.

 

[DanS]

And you problem with getting the facts is?

They are not facts !!!!!!

Those were statements made by a manufacturer of a product when asked about
some product.

Months ago Toyota, on multiple occasions, released statements saying that
there were no probems with the braking systems on several cars and the
issue was with the floor mats....those were the 'facts'.

Fast-forward several months, and it comes to light that it's not the floor-
mats, further testing by third-parties show that there are problems in the
design of the 'drive-by-wire' throttle system, and there's evidence of a
coverup, and blah, blah, blah......

But, several months ago, the facts were: It's the floormats.

There won't be any *facts* about the WAT functionality until after it's
released and inspected by third-parties.

 

[Andrew]

They are not facts !!!!!!

Those were statements made by a manufacturer of a product when asked about
some product.

Months ago Toyota, on multiple occasions, released statements saying that
there were no probems with the braking systems on several cars and the
issue was with the floor mats....those were the 'facts'.

Fast-forward several months, and it comes to light that it's not the
floor-
mats, further testing by third-parties show that there are problems in the
design of the 'drive-by-wire' throttle system, and there's evidence of a
coverup, and blah, blah, blah......

But, several months ago, the facts were: It's the floormats.

Actually, on several models like the Tacoma, and the 90's Camrys it still
*is* floormats according to Toyota.

 

[Spanky de Monkey]

That article is only full of lies and whole lot of ass kissing on the part
of Mr. Bott. If it phones home, it's spyware.

It doesn't send any personal information. It just checks to see if the OS
is valid. If you are running a valid OS then no big deal. Except for
thieves like yourself who are worried.

If my copy phones home I don't give a rats ass.

 

[Spanky de Monkey]

So they say and you believe.


So they say and you believe.


Never heard of false positives, bucko?

So what is a false positive? Never had one on my computer. I run genuine
software unlike yourself.

And your proof that I am a thief other than talking out your lying ass is?

You keep harping about "spyware" and Microsoft trying to protect their
property. It usually is people like you who bitch about software that tries
to catch thieves. Therefore you must be one of them.

 

[Char Jackson]

And actually, after further reading that linked article, that is *EXACTLY*
what happened.

Bott was called a shill and he responded.....

"Actually, I called them. I had questions, so I called them and got
answers.

That's called reporting."

There were a lot of things in Bott's blog article that raised an
eyebrow, but the one you quoted above was the most flagrant. If
calling someone and then passing along their response verbatim is
"reporting", well that's going to come as a huge surprise to anyone
who is doing _actual_ reporting. Ed Bott was never on my radar prior
to this, but I see now that I haven't been missing anything important.

 

[Spanky de Monkey]

Doesn't seem to bother the people who have genuine copies. I know you are
worried so you should download their software to put you at ease. If you
have a genuine copy, there will be no issue. I am sure you are scared
because most likely you are running a pirated copy and that is why you are
all over this.

Too bad. Better stick to Ubuntu where they don't give a rats ass who gets
their INFERIOR OS running for a day or so.


BULLSHIT. If you purchase a pirated copy you KNOW it you dumbshit.

 

[Char Jackson]

So what is a false positive?

No wonder you're not concerned about false positives. You don't even
know what they are!

 

[Andrew]

No wonder you're not concerned about false positives. You don't even
know what they are!

According to the page on Article ID: 971033 - Last Review: February 12,
2010 - Revision: 1.2
Description of the update for Windows Activation Technologies.
A false positive would be pretty tough to get.
WFP would 1st try to replace a system file that has been not signed by
Microsoft Corp.

Tampered Files
If the update discovers a tampered file, it tries to restore the file. This
restore may require a restart. If this update cannot restore the tampered
files, it will direct you more information on the Internet.

Then...

Validation Errors or Activation Exploits
Validation errors and activation exploits try to bypass the Windows
activation process and are sometimes included with counterfeit copies of
Windows. If a validation error or activation exploit is detected, you will
be directed to more information on the Internet for resolution of the
activation exploit or the validation error. When validation errors or
activation exploits are removed, you may be asked to use a valid product key
to activate the copy of Windows 7 that is running on your computer. If you
decide not to resolve the validation error or the activation exploit at that
time, you will be periodically notified that the copy of Windows 7 that is
running on your computer is not genuine. Additionally, Windows will provide
a link to more information online for resolution.

So if you are ok running system files not signed by MS then you might be
exposed to a false positive. In order to do so though you have to jump
through some hoops.
You have to set the /debug switch, and turn off WFP in the registry,
otherwise your file will be set back to the original to begin with.


http://support.microsoft.com/kb/222193
So, according to MSFT it shouldn't be all that easy to get a false positive.

But you know how that goes...At any rate the worst that can happen besides
the phoning home (Which other apps like WINUpdate use also) is that you will
be asked to verify your copy is genuine, through a nagging reminder system.
It seems that the timebomb for Beta and RC copies of Win7 is much worse from
a user perspective. Those shut down every 2 hours without saving your work.

 

[SC Tom]

Yeah the news is old, it was this take on it I wanted to share.

I apologize; I shouldn't have replied at all.

 

[John Aldred]

Doesn't seem to bother the people who have genuine copies. I know you are
worried so you should download their software to put you at ease. If you
have a genuine copy, there will be no issue. I am sure you are scared
because most likely you are running a pirated copy and that is why you are
all over this.

Too bad. Better stick to Ubuntu where they don't give a rats ass who gets
their INFERIOR OS running for a day or so.



BULLSHIT. If you purchase a pirated copy you KNOW it you dumbshit.

I'm not sure who you are replying to here.
You seem to be quoting my post, but replying to Alias!!

However if it was for me , I resent the remark about running a pirated copy.

I responded to an e-mail from Microsoft, following the beta trial, and took
up their limited offer of a reduced price if I placed a pre-release date
order. I assume that they were not advertising pirated copies.

 

[felmon]

It usually is people like you who bitch about software that tries to
catch thieves. Therefore you must be one of them.

interesting logic. if the police did regular searches of your house or
car in an effort to catch thieves, you wouldn't bitch because that would
make you a thief?

I tend to side with people who don't want people peeking and poking
around unless there is basis for suspicion but that's just an old-
fashioned (US) constitutional principle.

but I am violating my own principle posting to this thread. I don't know
why Alias wants to press these 'advocacy' posts. maybe one or two off-
topic posts, sure, and it's valuable information, but this ng will soon
be pretty degraded.

but it is weird how willing people are to let others get into their
business without 'warrant'.

Felmon

 

[felmon]

More leaps in logic, eh? It doesn't follow that someone who objects to
having to install a program that doesn't benefit the user to, once
again, prove one isn't running a pirated copy. It isn't MS' job to catch
thieves. That's the job of the legal authorities.

I generally agree but of course, if I agree to allow Microsoft to do a
search, that is also an exercise of liberty. the way I understand it, one
can control whether this update gets installed, well, at least now.

I tend to side with you on the issue but why do all of these posts in a
technical group? I could see posting one or two links - everyone goes off
topic from time to time - but I don't see the point of hammering the nail
constantly.

same goes for talking about Linux. but you and I have had this
conversation before - months ago, in a different ng. I don't right now
recall your justification but I take it you believe you are providing
people here some kind of service.

as a user of Linux myself, I am very doubtful how persuasive your posts
are in that regard.

Felmon

 

[Al Smith]

Actually, on several models like the Tacoma, and the 90's Camrys it
still *is* floormats according to Toyota.

I don't think the floor mats were ever the real problem. Toyota
just didn't want to admit that its electronic throttle system has
a design flaw.

-Al-