Old style keyboards

[Bettablue]

I am the proud new owner of a vintage 1987 IBM model M keyboard with 2 piece
keys, a detachable 7 foot cable terminating with a PS2 connector, very nice
buckling spring key design and very clicky sound and a wonderful tactile
feel. It was made before windows ever came out so mine doesn't have the
dreaded "Windows" keys. I remapped the left "Control" key to act as a
"Windows" key and that works great. The keyboard is in like new condition
and is undoubtedly the best keyboard I have ever had the pleasure of using
since my days in college some 24 years ago. I was surprised that it worked
as soon as I plugged it into the PS2 connector, but on my wife's computer,
running Windows 7, it won't register using a PS2 to USB adapter. I guess I
got lucky when I built my new computer as the motherboard still has two PS2
connections; one for a mouse and the other to connect a keyboard. I plan on
using the model M keyboard o along with a Logitech M505 wireless mouse. Are
there any drivers associated to this keyboard or do I need to get some sort
of PS2 to USB converter. I know there is a difference between an adapter
and converter, but I just wonder if the power requirements are so different
that I'll have to do something drastic to get my keyboard to work on USB.
The model M can easily draw more than ten times the power that a USB can
supply and so I was also wondering if drawing that much power will cause
problems with other USB devices connected to the bus. Please don't tell me
to get a Unicomp keyboard. I know all about them. Unicomp keyboards are
nice, but not nearly the same quality as the vintage IBM keyboards. By the
way, while I'm on the subject. Does anyone here have an old Lexmark made
model M keyboard in black that either works or not that I can purchase for
the keys? I want to do a key swap for a slightly different look.

Any opinions?

 

[charlie]

I am the proud new owner of a vintage 1987 IBM model M keyboard with 2
piece keys, a detachable 7 foot cable terminating with a PS2 connector,
very nice buckling spring key design and very clicky sound and a
wonderful tactile feel. It was made before windows ever came out so mine
doesn't have the dreaded "Windows" keys. I remapped the left "Control"
key to act as a "Windows" key and that works great. The keyboard is in
like new condition and is undoubtedly the best keyboard I have ever had
the pleasure of using since my days in college some 24 years ago. I was
surprised that it worked as soon as I plugged it into the PS2 connector,
but on my wife's computer, running Windows 7, it won't register using a
PS2 to USB adapter. I guess I got lucky when I built my new computer as
the motherboard still has two PS2 connections; one for a mouse and the
other to connect a keyboard. I plan on using the model M keyboard o
along with a Logitech M505 wireless mouse. Are there any drivers
associated to this keyboard or do I need to get some sort of PS2 to USB
converter. I know there is a difference between an adapter and
converter, but I just wonder if the power requirements are so different
that I'll have to do something drastic to get my keyboard to work on
USB. The model M can easily draw more than ten times the power that a
USB can supply and so I was also wondering if drawing that much power
will cause problems with other USB devices connected to the bus. Please
don't tell me to get a Unicomp keyboard. I know all about them. Unicomp
keyboards are nice, but not nearly the same quality as the vintage IBM
keyboards. By the way, while I'm on the subject. Does anyone here have
an old Lexmark made model M keyboard in black that either works or not
that I can purchase for the keys? I want to do a key swap for a slightly
different look.

Any opinions?

Use it with a PS2 port only would be my preference. Forget the USB bit
unless you have a way to get it to run through an adapter and a powered
USB hub. A friend did something similar, without the powered hub, and
killed a USB port on his wife's laptop.

Long ago, I tried this using old PS2 style keyboards, and ran into
problems with the data rate from the keyboards. The keyboards that I was
messing with used the larger PS2 connector, and were from 286/386 era
P/Cs. I always thought that the clicky sound was to give management an
impression of busy little worker bees.

My favorite keyboards were those used on various HP minicomputer
terminals made before 1990. The HP5340 terminals were actually
microcomputers using 8080 and Z80 processors.

 

[Paul]

I am the proud new owner of a vintage 1987 IBM model M keyboard with 2
piece keys, a detachable 7 foot cable terminating with a PS2 connector,
very nice buckling spring key design and very clicky sound and a
wonderful tactile feel. It was made before windows ever came out so mine
doesn't have the dreaded "Windows" keys. I remapped the left "Control"
key to act as a "Windows" key and that works great. The keyboard is in
like new condition and is undoubtedly the best keyboard I have ever had
the pleasure of using since my days in college some 24 years ago. I was
surprised that it worked as soon as I plugged it into the PS2 connector,
but on my wife's computer, running Windows 7, it won't register using a
PS2 to USB adapter. I guess I got lucky when I built my new computer as
the motherboard still has two PS2 connections; one for a mouse and the
other to connect a keyboard. I plan on using the model M keyboard o
along with a Logitech M505 wireless mouse. Are there any drivers
associated to this keyboard or do I need to get some sort of PS2 to USB
converter. I know there is a difference between an adapter and
converter, but I just wonder if the power requirements are so different
that I'll have to do something drastic to get my keyboard to work on
USB. The model M can easily draw more than ten times the power that a
USB can supply and so I was also wondering if drawing that much power
will cause problems with other USB devices connected to the bus. Please
don't tell me to get a Unicomp keyboard. I know all about them.
Unicomp keyboards are nice, but not nearly the same quality as the
vintage IBM keyboards. By the way, while I'm on the subject. Does
anyone here have an old Lexmark made model M keyboard in black that
either works or not that I can purchase for the keys? I want to do a
key swap for a slightly different look.

Any opinions?

There is a claim in the Feedback section here, that this adapter works
with a Model M.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812816060

"Ivan
3/11/2009 9:26:19 PM

IBM Model M keyboard requires quite a lot more current from the
PS/2 than other modern keyboards. I tried several USB to PS/2
connectors until this one works."

Keyboard matrix scanner chips don't typically draw a lot of power.
But being IBM, who knows what whiz bang hardware is inside there.
All it really needs, is a single, low power, matrix scanner. 100mA
should be enough to do it.

The reason I learned a little bit about keyboards, is I built a
keyboard from scratch for my first computer. And even then, they
had single chip scanners. Mine had an eight bit output (non-PS/2)
and a ribbon cable as an interface. It was eight bits plus strobe.
You pressed a key, and the strobe would pulse.

Paul

 

[XS11E]

There is a claim in the Feedback section here, that this adapter
works with a Model M.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812816060

It does indeed work with a model M.

 

[Sunny Bard]

I am the proud new owner of a vintage 1987 IBM model M keyboard
do I need to get some sort of PS2 to USB converter.

You do, and with a Model M you need to choose the adapter carefully
because the keyboard has a substantially higher power consumption than
more modern PS/2 keyboards ...

<http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/items.main/parentcat/11298/subcatid/0/id/124184>

 

[a]

I am the proud new owner of a vintage 1987 IBM model M keyboard with 2 piece
keys, a detachable 7 foot cable terminating with a PS2 connector, very nice
buckling spring key design and very clicky sound and a wonderful tactile
feel. It was made before windows ever came out so mine doesn't have the
dreaded "Windows" keys. I remapped the left "Control" key to act as a
"Windows" key and that works great. The keyboard is in like new condition
and is undoubtedly the best keyboard I have ever had the pleasure of using
since my days in college some 24 years ago. I was surprised that it worked
as soon as I plugged it into the PS2 connector, but on my wife's computer,
running Windows 7, it won't register using a PS2 to USB adapter. I guess I
got lucky when I built my new computer as the motherboard still has two PS2
connections; one for a mouse and the other to connect a keyboard. I plan on
using the model M keyboard o along with a Logitech M505 wireless mouse. Are
there any drivers associated to this keyboard or do I need to get some sort
of PS2 to USB converter. I know there is a difference between an adapter
and converter, but I just wonder if the power requirements are so different
that I'll have to do something drastic to get my keyboard to work on USB.
The model M can easily draw more than ten times the power that a USB can
supply and so I was also wondering if drawing that much power will cause
problems with other USB devices connected to the bus. Please don't tell me
to get a Unicomp keyboard. I know all about them. Unicomp keyboards are
nice, but not nearly the same quality as the vintage IBM keyboards. By the
way, while I'm on the subject. Does anyone here have an old Lexmark made
model M keyboard in black that either works or not that I can purchase for
the keys? I want to do a key swap for a slightly different look.

Any opinions?

You could go to this company that bought all of the old IBM specs and
equipment to make new keyboards, including one with a native USB
connector:

http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/customizer.html

 

[Paul]

You do, and with a Model M you need to choose the adapter carefully
because the keyboard has a substantially higher power consumption than
more modern PS/2 keyboards ...

<http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/items.main/parentcat/11298/subcatid/0/id/124184>

The chip shown in the picture, is an actual processor of some kind.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040103081624/www.geocities.com/jszybowski/keyboard/KeyPCB1.jpg

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/680x/SGS-Thomson-EF6805U3P-B.html

According to one datasheet for it, it's supposed to draw 0.5W, which
could be 5V @ 100mA (and that's with no loading on the processor
parallel ports). The other bit of current is likely drawn by
the interface chip, which looks like Fairchild FAST logic.

It's hard to believe a 112mA load would break things.

Regular keyboard matrix chips, don't have a processor inside. But you
can certainly use an 8 bit micro, to make a fake keyboard scanner,
which looks like what they did.

*******

In fact, the USB to dual PS/2 adapter thing, has a processor inside
the "blob". The first ones of those, were horrible, because the
processor seemed to have a firmware bug. It took a while, until
they fixed it. The first adapters of that kind, would hang up after
about ten minutes usage.

In this picture, the 18 pin chip on the left, is the dual PS/2 to USB
chip, which contains its own processor and firmware.

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/15-150-153-S02?$S640$

And this page reminds me, the chip was made by Chesen.

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=PS2-to-USB+adapters

Chesen chip for USB to dual PS/2. Draws 20mA. This is the latest
version. 6KB of firmware. 256 bytes of RAM storage.

http://www.chesen.com.tw/p3-products-CSC0101A.asp

It's amazing how many processors it takes, to get a keypress
inside a computer...

Paul

 

[Bettablue]

wrote in message

I am the proud new owner of a vintage 1987 IBM model M keyboard with 2
piece
keys, a detachable 7 foot cable terminating with a PS2 connector, very nice
buckling spring key design and very clicky sound and a wonderful tactile
feel. It was made before windows ever came out so mine doesn't have the
dreaded "Windows" keys. I remapped the left "Control" key to act as a
"Windows" key and that works great. The keyboard is in like new condition
and is undoubtedly the best keyboard I have ever had the pleasure of using
since my days in college some 24 years ago. I was surprised that it worked
as soon as I plugged it into the PS2 connector, but on my wife's computer,
running Windows 7, it won't register using a PS2 to USB adapter. I guess I
got lucky when I built my new computer as the motherboard still has two PS2
connections; one for a mouse and the other to connect a keyboard. I plan
on
using the model M keyboard o along with a Logitech M505 wireless mouse.
Are
there any drivers associated to this keyboard or do I need to get some sort
of PS2 to USB converter. I know there is a difference between an adapter
and converter, but I just wonder if the power requirements are so different
that I'll have to do something drastic to get my keyboard to work on USB.
The model M can easily draw more than ten times the power that a USB can
supply and so I was also wondering if drawing that much power will cause
problems with other USB devices connected to the bus. Please don't tell me
to get a Unicomp keyboard. I know all about them. Unicomp keyboards are
nice, but not nearly the same quality as the vintage IBM keyboards. By the
way, while I'm on the subject. Does anyone here have an old Lexmark made
model M keyboard in black that either works or not that I can purchase for
the keys? I want to do a key swap for a slightly different look.

Any opinions?

You could go to this company that bought all of the old IBM specs and
equipment to make new keyboards, including one with a native USB
connector:

http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/customizer.html


I know there are many kinds of adapters for using the model M keyboard with
USB on new computers. In fact I am planning on getting a couple of the blue
cube ones that are recommended on Geek Hack. I wonder though, if USB
updates are going to affect the performance of these older boards as newer
and better version of USB are introduced. It seems that these older boards
are virtually everywhere. So, it also begs the question if some time down
the road, these old model M keyboards will suddenly be incompatible with
newer systems. Already, desktop computers are pretty much on the decline as
far as popularity is concerned. Lap top and net top computers are filling
the marketplace. Is the writing on the wall for these old keyboards? I
would hate to think so.