Installing Programs

[Ken1943]

I am upgrading one machine and will try Win 7 64 bit, running 32 bit now.
There are some 32 bit programs I like to install to a folder besides
\program files. Like Forte Agent, I have installed to \online\agent
because I can put the data folder in the same place so I can back it up
without hunting it down in the user folder or where ever. I also have ham
radio programs installed to a \radio folder. Also installing some 64 bit
programs this way.

Does anyone see a problem with this ?

Thanks


KenW

 

[Seth]

I am upgrading one machine and will try Win 7 64 bit, running 32 bit now.
There are some 32 bit programs I like to install to a folder besides
\program files. Like Forte Agent, I have installed to \online\agent
because I can put the data folder in the same place so I can back it up
without hunting it down in the user folder or where ever. I also have ham
radio programs installed to a \radio folder. Also installing some 64 bit
programs this way.

Does anyone see a problem with this ?

Only problem I see with it is why? Is there a reason for not just putting
it in \Users\<username>\Documents\Agent (or whatever) so a standard backup
would catch it automatically? Seems like over complicating things.

 

[Ken1943]

I am upgrading one machine and will try Win 7 64 bit, running 32 bit now.
There are some 32 bit programs I like to install to a folder besides
\program files. Like Forte Agent, I have installed to \online\agent
because I can put the data folder in the same place so I can back it up
without hunting it down in the user folder or where ever. I also have ham
radio programs installed to a \radio folder. Also installing some 64 bit
programs this way.

Does anyone see a problem with this ?

Thanks


KenW

Old dog likes to stick with old tricks !! But, I never liked installing
everything into \program files. Makes it easier to find certain things I
want to look for.


KenW

 

[Gordon]

Old dog likes to stick with old tricks !! But, I never liked installing
everything into \program files. Makes it easier to find certain things I
want to look for.

Well a) there's no reason to even be LOOKING in the Program Files folder
in the first place, because all that's there is err, program files,
which are not User editable anyway, b) if your applications are Windows
7 compatible they won't (normally) install anywhere else and c) as Seth
says why put the data into a place that a Standard User does not have
Read/write access to? The way Windows 7 puts User data into C:\Users\ is
far superior because that's what gets picked up by backup applications -
NOT C:\Program Files\...
Just go with the flow - the way Windows 7 works your data sources are
seamless anyway - you don't even need to know what folder they are in...

 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Well a) there's no reason to even be LOOKING in the Program Files
folder in the first place, because all that's there is err, program
files,

Except for those older, poorly written programs that store
configuration and used data under their folder in the Program Files
structure.

which are not User editable anyway, b) if your applications are
Windows 7 compatible they won't (normally) install anywhere else

Really? All of them that I've installed offer your choice of
installation folder and can be installed anywhere you please, they
just default to the Program Files structure.

and c) as Seth says why put the data into a place that a Standard
User does not have Read/write access to?

Can't disageree there.

The way Windows 7 puts User data into C:\Users\ is far superior
because that's what gets picked up by backup applications - NOT
C:\Program Files\...

Just for the record, Windows 7 doesn't put the data there, the
programs do, if properly written.

Just go with the flow - the way Windows 7 works your data sources
are seamless anyway - you don't even need to know what folder they
are in...

It does seem like a bit more effort than any benefit one might gain,
doesn't it?

 

[Seth]

Old dog likes to stick with old tricks !! But, I never liked installing
everything into \program files. Makes it easier to find certain things I
want to look for.

And why don't you reply to the person you are replying to? your reply to my
message is showing up as a reply to your own original message quoting
included.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

I am upgrading one machine and will try Win 7 64 bit, running 32 bit now.
There are some 32 bit programs I like to install to a folder besides
\program files. Like Forte Agent, I have installed to \online\agent
because I can put the data folder in the same place so I can back it up
without hunting it down in the user folder or where ever. I also have ham
radio programs installed to a \radio folder. Also installing some 64 bit
programs this way.

Does anyone see a problem with this ?


KenW

That approach would seem to add disorganization to a system. By using
it, you'd have user data scattered around in a bunch of different
structures off of the root, instead of in the standard place, in
AppData under your user folder.

BTW, Windows 7 makes 32-bit program installations default to C:\Program
Files (x86).

Some legacy programs will still get into trouble, because they will
store their data in their Program Files (x86) tree. The usual
workaround is to install them in a third program files folder so they
have the right permisions. That's bad enough; twelve different program
files folders would be a real organizational mess, IMO.

 

[John Morrison]

I am upgrading one machine and will try Win 7 64 bit, running 32 bit now.
There are some 32 bit programs I like to install to a folder besides
\program files. Like Forte Agent, I have installed to \online\agent
because I can put the data folder in the same place so I can back it up
without hunting it down in the user folder or where ever. I also have ham
radio programs installed to a \radio folder. Also installing some 64 bit
programs this way.

Does anyone see a problem with this ?

I don't see any problems with that.

I'm running Win 7 64 bit and still use some 32 bit programs.

I also use Forte Agent which is installed to D:\Newsreader, Eudora for
email is installed to D:\Eudora.
I have various browsers installed, all with the exception of IE9 are
installed to D:\K-Meleon, Mozilla Firefox and various Opera instances.

When I reinstall Windows 7 none of the above programs need to be
reinstalled, I backup my D:\drive regularly and when I reinstall the
operating system I just need to add shortcuts to the Start Menu and I
can usually start running the programs on D:\drive immediately
continuing on from where I last left off.

 

[Ken1943]

That's the answer I was looking for. It may look disorganized to some,
but I have 'always' done it that way. At 68 years old, I like my way. lol

I don't see any problems with that.

I'm running Win 7 64 bit and still use some 32 bit programs.

I also use Forte Agent which is installed to D:\Newsreader, Eudora for
email is installed to D:\Eudora.
I have various browsers installed, all with the exception of IE9 are
installed to D:\K-Meleon, Mozilla Firefox and various Opera instances.

When I reinstall Windows 7 none of the above programs need to be
reinstalled, I backup my D:\drive regularly and when I reinstall the
operating system I just need to add shortcuts to the Start Menu and I
can usually start running the programs on D:\drive immediately
continuing on from where I last left off.

KenW

 

[BillW50]

In John Morrison wrote:
[...]

I also use Forte Agent which is installed to D:\Newsreader, Eudora for
email is installed to D:\Eudora.
I have various browsers installed, all with the exception of IE9 are
installed to D:\K-Meleon, Mozilla Firefox and various Opera instances.

When I reinstall Windows 7 none of the above programs need to be
reinstalled, I backup my D:\drive regularly and when I reinstall the
operating system I just need to add shortcuts to the Start Menu and I
can usually start running the programs on D:\drive immediately
continuing on from where I last left off.

I never found this to work for some programs. As many programs depend on
registry entries. And when you reinstall Windows, they are all lost.
Some applications will recreate them if they are missing, but not all.
And some programs throw special DLLs into the Windows folder. And they
won't be there either. These program has been around since the Windows
3.1 days or probably earlier.

I used to do the same thing and I learned it doesn't always work too
well. And you don't really need another partition called D or whatever.
You could have them in a special folder on C and do the very same.
Assuming you have a copy of it somewhere else to put back in there after
an OS reinstall. But if you make backups, you never have to do a
reinstall ever anyway.

 

[R. C. White]

Hi, Ken.

My experience might be helpful here. It is specifically about Quicken, but
it also applies to many apps, such as the ones you mentioned.

I started using Quicken back in DOS days in 1990 and have updated it every
few years since - as I've also updated Windows with every new version except
ME. When Quicken switched to Windows, Intuit renamed its folder from just
"Quicken" to "QuickenW". In 1998, I got my first taste of WinNT 4.0 and
began dual-booting between WinNT and Win95 - soon updated to Win98. I
learned how to install Quicken into a folder in a "neutral" partition (Drive
E that I could access from both Win98 and WinNT. I could enter checks
from one OS in the morning and more in the afternoon from the other OS.
Then came Win2K, with its Program Files folder. But this was not a problem;
I just kept installing each new Quicken into E:\QuickenW.

Then came WinXP X64! This introduced the new "Program Files (x86)" folder -
with no explanation that I could find then, so I assumed it must be for
64-bit apps. Wrong! Took me 6 months to find out that I was 180 degrees
wrong and by then I had lots of apps in the wrong folders - but Quicken was
OK because it was still in E:\QuickenW. In those days, Intuit wrote Quicken
to keep its data files (QDATA.QDF, etc.) inside the QuickenW folder, so my
data was OK, too.

Then came Vista, and Microsoft began to enforce the rule that data files
must be kept outside the Program Files hierarchy - but that doesn't bother
me. I'm currently running Quicken 2010, installed in E:\QuickenW, with its
data files in the same folder (and backups of the data in other places, of
course).

When a new version of Quicken arrives, I choose Custom install and send it
to E:\QuickenW, rather than to C:\Program Files (x86)\Quicken. After
installing a new version of Windows (as a sometime beta tester, I might do
this several times in a year), I bail out of Setup just before the end.
Then, instead of running E:\QuickenW\qw.exe, I Browse to my
E:\QuickenW\RC.QDF file and click on it. That starts Quicken with my data
file loaded and I'm off and running. ;<)

This technique will not work for all apps, especially those that must be
installed with extensive entries in the Registry. But for some apps it is
much less trouble than having them in the Program Files folders. And, of
course, the program and data files can be on any drive I choose.

I can't promise this will work for you, Ken, but it works for me. ;<)

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2011 (Build 15.4.3508.1109) in Win7 Ultimate x64 SP1


"Ken1943" wrote in message

I am upgrading one machine and will try Win 7 64 bit, running 32 bit now.
There are some 32 bit programs I like to install to a folder besides
\program files. Like Forte Agent, I have installed to \online\agent
because I can put the data folder in the same place so I can back it up
without hunting it down in the user folder or where ever. I also have ham
radio programs installed to a \radio folder. Also installing some 64 bit
programs this way.

Does anyone see a problem with this ?

Thanks


KenW

 

[Ken1943]

I run Quick 2009 and I am not really worried about the program running. I
backup to my D partition and their data can be where ever. When I do the
reinstall I will just open my backup. Did the same thing changing for XP
and had no problems.

Hi, Ken.

My experience might be helpful here. It is specifically about Quicken, but
it also applies to many apps, such as the ones you mentioned.

I started using Quicken back in DOS days in 1990 and have updated it every
few years since - as I've also updated Windows with every new version except
ME. When Quicken switched to Windows, Intuit renamed its folder from just
"Quicken" to "QuickenW". In 1998, I got my first taste of WinNT 4.0 and
began dual-booting between WinNT and Win95 - soon updated to Win98. I
learned how to install Quicken into a folder in a "neutral" partition (Drive
E that I could access from both Win98 and WinNT. I could enter checks
from one OS in the morning and more in the afternoon from the other OS.
Then came Win2K, with its Program Files folder. But this was not a problem;
I just kept installing each new Quicken into E:\QuickenW.

Then came WinXP X64! This introduced the new "Program Files (x86)" folder -
with no explanation that I could find then, so I assumed it must be for
64-bit apps. Wrong! Took me 6 months to find out that I was 180 degrees
wrong and by then I had lots of apps in the wrong folders - but Quicken was
OK because it was still in E:\QuickenW. In those days, Intuit wrote Quicken
to keep its data files (QDATA.QDF, etc.) inside the QuickenW folder, so my
data was OK, too.

Then came Vista, and Microsoft began to enforce the rule that data files
must be kept outside the Program Files hierarchy - but that doesn't bother
me. I'm currently running Quicken 2010, installed in E:\QuickenW, with its
data files in the same folder (and backups of the data in other places, of
course).

When a new version of Quicken arrives, I choose Custom install and send it
to E:\QuickenW, rather than to C:\Program Files (x86)\Quicken. After
installing a new version of Windows (as a sometime beta tester, I might do
this several times in a year), I bail out of Setup just before the end.
Then, instead of running E:\QuickenW\qw.exe, I Browse to my
E:\QuickenW\RC.QDF file and click on it. That starts Quicken with my data
file loaded and I'm off and running. ;<)

This technique will not work for all apps, especially those that must be
installed with extensive entries in the Registry. But for some apps it is
much less trouble than having them in the Program Files folders. And, of
course, the program and data files can be on any drive I choose.

I can't promise this will work for you, Ken, but it works for me. ;<)

RC

KenW

 

[R. C. White]

Hi, Gene.

BTW, Windows 7 makes 32-bit program installations default to C:\Program
Files (x86).

That is ONLY in 64-bit Windows - and it also is in WinXP x64 and Vista x64,
not just Win7 x64.

The (x86) folder doesn't even exist in 32-bit Windows. (Unless the user
creates it, of course.)

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2011 (Build 15.4.3508.1109) in Win7 Ultimate x64 SP1


"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message

I am upgrading one machine and will try Win 7 64 bit, running 32 bit now.
There are some 32 bit programs I like to install to a folder besides
\program files. Like Forte Agent, I have installed to \online\agent
because I can put the data folder in the same place so I can back it up
without hunting it down in the user folder or where ever. I also have ham
radio programs installed to a \radio folder. Also installing some 64 bit
programs this way.

Does anyone see a problem with this ?


KenW

That approach would seem to add disorganization to a system. By using
it, you'd have user data scattered around in a bunch of different
structures off of the root, instead of in the standard place, in
AppData under your user folder.

BTW, Windows 7 makes 32-bit program installations default to C:\Program
Files (x86).

Some legacy programs will still get into trouble, because they will
store their data in their Program Files (x86) tree. The usual
workaround is to install them in a third program files folder so they
have the right permisions. That's bad enough; twelve different program
files folders would be a real organizational mess, IMO.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Hi, Gene.

That is ONLY in 64-bit Windows - and it also is in WinXP x64 and Vista x64,
not just Win7 x64.
Obviously.

The (x86) folder doesn't even exist in 32-bit Windows. (Unless the user
creates it, of course.)

Obviously.

The context was Windows 7 64-bit.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2011 (Build 15.4.3508.1109) in Win7 Ultimate x64 SP1

"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message news:[email protected]...


That approach would seem to add disorganization to a system. By using
it, you'd have user data scattered around in a bunch of different
structures off of the root, instead of in the standard place, in
AppData under your user folder.