help no help for shutdown keys

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

For Windows '9x, it was Win, then U, then enter.

For XP, it's Win, U, U.

I've just restored to life a Samsung Q310 for a blind friend: the
problem was that one of the pins on the DC input socket had come
unsoldered. (Replacement sockets very cheap, but I didn't even have to
replace it; be careful how you plug and unplug your power leads, as
though this sounds a trivial repair, I had to almost completely
dismantle the laptop to get at it!)

Anyway, I wanted to shut down after testing: mainly because I like to
know for myself (as I find it quicker than mouse), but also since my
blind friend might not know, I wanted to know how to shut down without
using the mouse (touchpad). The machine wasn't online (that's another
matter: it saw my network (simple WEP), but when I tried connecting, it
went away for a few tens of seconds, then said there was a problem; I'd
expected it to prompt me for a key at some point, but it didn't.)

So I asked its help to tell me how to "shut down"; it only showed me the
mouse method. So I asked it for "keyboard shortcuts"; it told me lots of
them, but not that one.

Not impressed!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"What happens if I press this button?" "I wouldn't ..." (pinggg!) "Oh!" "What
happened?" "A sign lit up, saying `please do not press this button
again'!"(s1f2)

 

[Andy Burns]

For Windows '9x, it was Win, then U, then enter.

For XP, it's Win, U, U.

Win, tab, tab, tab takes you there, you need to know what the default
action (shutdown/restart/logoff/etc) is set to, space will take the
default, right arrow then the relevant underlined letter will force a
non-default action.

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Win, tab, tab, tab takes you there, you need to know what the default
action (shutdown/restart/logoff/etc) is set to, space will take the
default, right arrow then the relevant underlined letter will force a
non-default action.

Thanks, I'll try to remember that. [Hmm, five keystrokes - at least, six
more of the time - instead of three; that's progress (-:!] So, if you
don't _know_ what the default is, is it going to be Win, tab, tab, tab,
rightarrow, S? (I'm guessing that S would be shut down [I'm not on the 7
machine ATM] - or have they changed the name to Power Down or similar?)

I suppose that partly explains why help didn't have the answer. Still
not impressed (with the help, on this occasion) though!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

He spoke in sentences that made up paragraphs, with immaculate grammar and
punctuation. - Barry Cryer on Clement Freud 1924-2009, in Radio Times, 25 April
- 1 May 2009.

 

[Andy Burns]

Win, tab, tab, tab takes you there, you need to know what the default
action (shutdown/restart/logoff/etc) is set to, space will take the
default, right arrow then the relevant underlined letter will force a
non-default action.

Thanks, I'll try to remember that. [Hmm, five keystrokes - at least, six
more of the time - instead of three; that's progress (-:!] So, if you
don't _know_ what the default is, is it going to be Win, tab, tab, tab,
rightarrow, S? (I'm guessing that S would be shut down [I'm not on the 7
machine ATM] - or have they changed the name to Power Down or similar?)

W - sWitch user
L - Logoff
O - lOck
R - Restart
S - Sleep
U - shUtdown

but it's worse than that, you *have* to know which is the default,
because the default doesn't appear on the submenu of other options, so
the only way to choose the default is know it *is* the default, and use
space.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

Win, tab, tab, tab takes you there, you need to know what the default
action (shutdown/restart/logoff/etc) is set to, space will take the
default, right arrow then the relevant underlined letter will force a
non-default action.

Thanks, I'll try to remember that. [Hmm, five keystrokes - at least, six
more of the time - instead of three; that's progress (-:!] So, if you
don't _know_ what the default is, is it going to be Win, tab, tab, tab,
rightarrow, S? (I'm guessing that S would be shut down [I'm not on the 7
machine ATM] - or have they changed the name to Power Down or similar?)

W - sWitch user
L - Logoff
O - lOck
R - Restart
S - Sleep
U - shUtdown

but it's worse than that, you *have* to know which is the default, because
the default doesn't appear on the submenu of other options, so the only way
to choose the default is know it *is* the default, and use space.

I don't want to shut down right now, so I'll just ask rather than try


If I press Windows and right arrow, will the above key work even if
it's the default and not displayed?

How about Windows and two right arrows, which brings up the menu? Will
that key then work as you would like?

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

Win, tab, tab, tab takes you there, you need to know what the default
action (shutdown/restart/logoff/etc) is set to, space will take the
default, right arrow then the relevant underlined letter will force a
non-default action.

Thanks, I'll try to remember that. [Hmm, five keystrokes - at least, six
more of the time - instead of three; that's progress (-:!] So, if you
don't _know_ what the default is, is it going to be Win, tab, tab, tab,
rightarrow, S? (I'm guessing that S would be shut down [I'm not on the 7
machine ATM] - or have they changed the name to Power Down or similar?)

W - sWitch user
L - Logoff
O - lOck
R - Restart
S - Sleep
U - shUtdown

but it's worse than that, you *have* to know which is the default,
because the default doesn't appear on the submenu of other options,
so the only way to choose the default is know it *is* the default,
and use space.

I don't want to shut down right now, so I'll just ask rather than try


If I press Windows and right arrow, will the above key work even if
it's the default and not displayed?

Exactly the question that occurred to me!

How about Windows and two right arrows, which brings up the menu? Will
that key then work as you would like?

(Though that one didn't.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

What's awful about weird views is not the views. It's the intolerance. If
someone wants to worship the Duke of Edinburgh or a pineapple, fine. But don't
kill me if I don't agree. - Tim Rice, Radio Times 15-21 October 2011.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

Win, tab, tab, tab takes you there, you need to know what the default
action (shutdown/restart/logoff/etc) is set to, space will take the
default, right arrow then the relevant underlined letter will force a
non-default action.

Thanks, I'll try to remember that. [Hmm, five keystrokes - at least, six
more of the time - instead of three; that's progress (-:!] So, if you
don't _know_ what the default is, is it going to be Win, tab, tab, tab,
rightarrow, S? (I'm guessing that S would be shut down [I'm not on the 7
machine ATM] - or have they changed the name to Power Down or similar?)

W - sWitch user
L - Logoff
O - lOck
R - Restart
S - Sleep
U - shUtdown

but it's worse than that, you *have* to know which is the default,
because the default doesn't appear on the submenu of other options, so
the only way to choose the default is know it *is* the default, and use
space.

I don't want to shut down right now, so I'll just ask rather than try

If I press Windows and right arrow, will the above key work even if it's
the default and not displayed?

Exactly the question that occurred to me!
(Though that one didn't.)

I got to a good stopping point, so I took the time to do the
experiments.

If only the default is visible and the menu isn't, i.e., one right
arrow, then the shortcut letters have no effect.

When the menu is visible, i.e., two right arrows, the invisible letter
is invisible to the OS as well as to us. That is, only the visible
letters work.

Dumb design, IMO, especially for people with vision troubles.

 

[Andy Burns]

If I press Windows and right arrow, will the above key work even if it's
the default and not displayed?

No, that's why I said it's worse than that, whichever option is the
default cannot be invoked by its letter, but must be used by the space bar

so if you want to switch user

Windows, Tab, Tab, Tab, RightArrow, W

*UNLESS* switch user is the default, then you need

Windows, Tab, Tab, Tab, RightArrow, Space

 

[Andy Burns]

if you want to switch user

Windows, Tab, Tab, Tab, RightArrow, W

*UNLESS* switch user is the default, then you need

Windows, Tab, Tab, Tab, RightArrow, Space

Oops

Windows, Tab, Tab, Tab, Space

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

On 3/26/2012, J. P. Gilliver (John) posted: []
I got to a good stopping point, so I took the time to do the
experiments.

If only the default is visible and the menu isn't, i.e., one right
arrow, then the shortcut letters have no effect.
)-:

When the menu is visible, i.e., two right arrows, the invisible letter
is invisible to the OS as well as to us. That is, only the visible
letters work.

Dumb design, IMO, especially for people with vision troubles.

Definitely agree.

So is there _any_ foolproof way of shutting down from the keyboard if
you don't know what the default is? (Even sighted people might
occasionally need this - say the backlight has failed, or the PC - if a
laptop/netbook - has got itself into a condition where it thinks it's
driving an external monitor. I suppose with each version of Windows
being more tolerant of just being killed, you could do that and probably
get away with it, but still not good.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible,
he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he
is
very probably wrong." - Arthur C. Clarke

 

[Bob I]

For Windows '9x, it was Win, then U, then enter.

For XP, it's Win, U, U.

I've just restored to life a Samsung Q310 for a blind friend: the
problem was that one of the pins on the DC input socket had come
unsoldered. (Replacement sockets very cheap, but I didn't even have to
replace it; be careful how you plug and unplug your power leads, as
though this sounds a trivial repair, I had to almost completely
dismantle the laptop to get at it!)

Anyway, I wanted to shut down after testing: mainly because I like to
know for myself (as I find it quicker than mouse), but also since my
blind friend might not know, I wanted to know how to shut down without
using the mouse (touchpad). The machine wasn't online (that's another
matter: it saw my network (simple WEP), but when I tried connecting, it
went away for a few tens of seconds, then said there was a problem; I'd
expected it to prompt me for a key at some point, but it didn't.)

So I asked its help to tell me how to "shut down"; it only showed me the
mouse method. So I asked it for "keyboard shortcuts"; it told me lots of
them, but not that one.

Not impressed!

Power options and power button from help

Change what happens when you press the power button on your computer

There are two ways to change what happens when you press the power
button on your computer. You can change what happens when you press the
power button on your computer case (or the edge of your laptop) and you
can change what happens when you press the Shut down button on the Start
menu.

Change what happens when you press the power button
You can choose what happens when you press the power button on your
computer case (or the edge of your laptop). The computer can shut down,
sleep, hibernate, or do nothing. You can apply the same setting to all
of your power plans or you can apply different settings to individual
power plans.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

On 3/26/2012, J. P. Gilliver (John) posted: []
I got to a good stopping point, so I took the time to do the experiments.

If only the default is visible and the menu isn't, i.e., one right arrow,
then the shortcut letters have no effect.

)-:

When the menu is visible, i.e., two right arrows, the invisible letter is
invisible to the OS as well as to us. That is, only the visible letters
work.

Dumb design, IMO, especially for people with vision troubles.

Definitely agree.

So is there _any_ foolproof way of shutting down from the keyboard if you
don't know what the default is? (Even sighted people might occasionally need
this - say the backlight has failed, or the PC - if a laptop/netbook - has
got itself into a condition where it thinks it's driving an external monitor.
I suppose with each version of Windows being more tolerant of just being
killed, you could do that and probably get away with it, but still not good.)

The first way I suggest is to make Shutdown the default. Then Windows
Key - Right Arrow - Enter, or I guess Windows Key - Space Bar, is
foolproof. Maybe that's not what you mean by foolproof, since it
requires setting the computer the way you want.

Another method, similar to the above, is to make something else the
default, then use Windows - Right Arrow - Right Arrow - u.

 

[Andy Burns]

The first way I suggest is to make Shutdown the default. Then Windows
Key - Right Arrow - Enter

Are you sure about Win, Right?

For me that doesn't give focus to the default shutdown widget,

only Win, Tab, Tab, Tab gives focus to the default shutdown widget


, or I guess Windows Key - Space Bar, is

 

[Robert Sudbury]

So I asked its help to tell me how to "shut down"; it only showed me the
mouse method. So I asked it for "keyboard shortcuts"; it told me lots of
them, but not that one.

Assuming your friend can touch-type, why not type Windows + R (to bring
up the RUN field), then type: shutdown /s

Or create a shortcut on the Desktop (or the Start Menu) for the command:

c:\windows\shutdown.exe -s

In the properties of that Desktop or Start Menu shortcut, set the
Shortcut Key of your choice. You'll be able to use that new shortcut at
the next logon.

Type shutdown.exe /? in a CMD prompt for a full set of switch options
that you can use.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Gene E. Bloch wrote:

Are you sure about Win, Right?

For me that doesn't give focus to the default shutdown widget,

only Win, Tab, Tab, Tab gives focus to the default shutdown widget

"Windows Key - Right Arrow - Enter" works for me every time...

But note that I said that the default action has to be Shutdown.

OTOH, "Win, Tab, Tab, Tab" gets me to the first shortcut on the left
pane of the Start Menu. Not what I want in this context.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Assuming your friend can touch-type, why not type Windows + R (to bring up
the RUN field), then type: shutdown /s

Or create a shortcut on the Desktop (or the Start Menu) for the command:

c:\windows\shutdown.exe -s

In the properties of that Desktop or Start Menu shortcut, set the Shortcut
Key of your choice. You'll be able to use that new shortcut at the next
logon.

Type shutdown.exe /? in a CMD prompt for a full set of switch options that
you can use.

This seems the best approach so far...especially the shortcut
suggestion.

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <[email protected]>, Bob I

Power options and power button from help

Change what happens when you press the power button on your computer

[]
"Change" being the operative word here. I was after a key sequence (and
would have included the power button as a sequence) that worked,
whatever had been set (as default or whatever).

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

More keystrokes than I'd hoped for.
Desktop shortcuts aren't easy to use without the mouse: you have to
switch focus to the desktop, and then know how many shortcuts you have
that start with the same letter, _and_ know which one the computer is
going to select first (I'm not even sure if that's always the same).
Any reason for "/" or "-", or do both work?

This seems the best approach so far...especially the shortcut
suggestion.

Only with the self-selected shortcut key! Still requires setting up,
though: I was really after a sequence that would work on any Windows 7
computer (as Win, U, enter would for a '9x one, or Win, U, U for _most_
XP ones).

For interest: I don't think my blind friends _do_ have any difficulty
shutting down - for a start, they have speech output (via JAWS or
Window-Eyes); I just thought that it was an interesting intellectual
exercise, which from the responses it has been!

As an aside, key sequences that always work are an important aspect of
operation by the visually impaired/handicapped, and this applies well
outside just the world of Windows: many devices these days (digital
watches, TVs, radios, hifi, possibly even kitchen scales ... even
microwave ovens) have menus, defaults, and so on, which rely on you
being able to see the screen/display to know what effect your next
keypress will have.

 

[Andy Burns]

"Windows Key - Right Arrow - Enter" works for me every time...

ok, must be 'cos I've disabled the search box and enabled the run
command instead.

 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 08:48:38 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

For Windows '9x, it was Win, then U, then enter.

For XP, it's Win, U, U.

I've just restored to life a Samsung Q310 for a blind friend: the
problem was that one of the pins on the DC input socket had come
unsoldered. (Replacement sockets very cheap, but I didn't even have to
replace it; be careful how you plug and unplug your power leads, as
though this sounds a trivial repair, I had to almost completely
dismantle the laptop to get at it!)

Anyway, I wanted to shut down after testing: mainly because I like to
know for myself (as I find it quicker than mouse), but also since my
blind friend might not know, I wanted to know how to shut down without
using the mouse (touchpad). The machine wasn't online (that's another
matter: it saw my network (simple WEP), but when I tried connecting, it
went away for a few tens of seconds, then said there was a problem; I'd
expected it to prompt me for a key at some point, but it didn't.)

So I asked its help to tell me how to "shut down"; it only showed me the
mouse method. So I asked it for "keyboard shortcuts"; it told me lots of
them, but not that one.

Not impressed!

I've always used ALT+F4 - U to initiate a shutdown from Windows since
the Win95 days. I don't have a Windows 7 PC handy to make sure it
still works but I'd imagine it does. Since that key combination shuts
down the active application, you have to make sure everything else is
shut down first, or if you don't want to have to make sure all of your
applications are shut down first, then use WinKey ALT+F4 ALT+F4 U - the
WinKey brings up the Start menu, ALT+F4 kills the Start menu but leaves
the taskbar selected, the second ALT+F4 should bring up the Windows
shutdown dialog, and finally U to shut down.