Hard drive performance

K

KCB

Anybody have any tips on improving HD performance? My main drive is a
Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 with the latest firmware (CC49). Motherboard is
Asus P6X58D PREMIUM with latest drivers and BIOS. The HD is connected
through the Intel ICH10R Controller, with SATA 3.0 Gb/s. There is a Marvell
Controller with SATA 6.0 Gb/s ports, but ASUS specs say these are for "data
hard drives only". This has deterred me from connecting the boot drive to
one of the Marvell ports, and I'm not sure that would help anyway. This is
a Win7/64 Pro install.

HD Tune results are as follows:
Read transfer rate
Transfer Rate Minimum : 2.0 MB/s
Transfer Rate Maximum : 119.6 MB/s
Transfer Rate Average : 72.3 MB/s
Access Time : 22.3 ms
Burst Rate : 178.0 MB/s
CPU Usage : 1.1%
 
P

Paul

KCB said:
Anybody have any tips on improving HD performance? My main drive is a
Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 with the latest firmware (CC49). Motherboard
is Asus P6X58D PREMIUM with latest drivers and BIOS. The HD is
connected through the Intel ICH10R Controller, with SATA 3.0 Gb/s.
There is a Marvell Controller with SATA 6.0 Gb/s ports, but ASUS specs
say these are for "data hard drives only". This has deterred me from
connecting the boot drive to one of the Marvell ports, and I'm not sure
that would help anyway. This is a Win7/64 Pro install.

HD Tune results are as follows:
Read transfer rate
Transfer Rate Minimum : 2.0 MB/s
Transfer Rate Maximum : 119.6 MB/s
Transfer Rate Average : 72.3 MB/s
Access Time : 22.3 ms
Burst Rate : 178.0 MB/s
CPU Usage : 1.1%
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/982018

"Issue 2

Before Advanced Format disks were available, NTFS assumed that the
logical sector size that was exposed by the disk interface was equal
to the physical sector size of the disk. Although NTFS was originally
designed to theoretically support larger sectors sizes, NTFS assumed
that these two sector sizes were equal. When NTFS performs buffered
writes at the end of a file in Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2,
NTFS pads the write operation to the end of the sector size which is
exposed by the disk interface (the logical sector size). This behavior
guarantees sector alignment. However, because the size of a logical
sector of a 512e drive is 512 bytes, the buffered write does not align
to the physical sector size of the drive’s hard disk. This causes the
Advanced Format disk to internally update the 512-byte logical sector
within its 4KB physical sector, which can result in performance and
reliability issues.

This hotfix introduces behavior to NTFS which makes sure that buffered
writes at the end of the file are padded to the reported physical
sector size of the disk.

This issue can manifest itself with everyday applications on an
Advanced Format disk. However, this issue occurs most frequently
when you perform many small writes, such as using the ImageX
command-line tool in Windows 7 or in Windows Server 2008 R2 to
apply a Microsoft Windows Image (.wim file) to an Advanced Format disk.
Without the hotfix, ImageX takes significantly longer to complete the
operation than if you were to apply the same operation to a
traditional hard disk.
"

You could have a disk with 4KB internal sectors, with 512e emulation.
And then it's a matter of what the OS is able to determine, about
the true dimensions of the drive, such as physical or logical
sector size. Windows 7 likely could have handled a declared 4KB
sector just fine, but the 512e emulation provided for operation
with older OSes, may "slightly shoot in the foot" lots of things.

If you're bored, I'm sure there is plenty of material to read.

I've noticed some weirdness about my 500GB drive, that makes
me wonder how it really works inside. And if you can't get
straight answers from reporting utilities (or from the product
datasheet), it's pretty hard to conclude anything.

One thing I noticed, is optimal commands in "dd" on older drives,
are no longer optimal on my new 500GB single platter drives.
The new drive does better with "counter-intuitive" smaller block
sizes (which means, finally, the cache memory chip is actually
being used). It can make a factor of three difference in some
of the things I attempt with it. And it means fiddling around
until I find the most efficient command to use (re-start the
command, if the measured performance is wrong). I use the
Performance plugin, amongst other things, for monitoring.

Your "Transfer Rate Minimum" is pretty low. That could be
some bad blocks. Try the HDTune bad block scan, and let
it run from end to end on the disk. You're likely to see
solid green blocks, so it's not like I expect to see any
red blocks in the test. Then, rerun the transfer rate benchmark
right after that. See if the curve looks at all different.
HDTune should be less affected by alignment issues (but you
never know absolutely for sure with these things). My 500GB
drive "perked up", after being scanned once - technical
explanation unknown, since resolving pending bad blocks
is done on writes. Sequential reads really shouldn't do anything,
except to "sweep the dirt off the platter" :)

Paul
 
C

Char Jackson

Anybody have any tips on improving HD performance?
I'm told replacing it with an SSD makes a significant difference but
probably isn't what you had in mind.
 
E

Ed Cryer

I'm told replacing it with an SSD makes a significant difference but
probably isn't what you had in mind.
What's the largest SSD available?

Ed
 
K

KCB

Char Jackson said:
I'm told replacing it with an SSD makes a significant difference but
probably isn't what you had in mind.
:) Actually, I _was_ looking into that, but would still like to get the
most performance I can out of this disk.
 
K

KCB

Paul said:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/982018

"Issue 2

Before Advanced Format disks were available, NTFS assumed that the
logical sector size that was exposed by the disk interface was equal
to the physical sector size of the disk. Although NTFS was originally
designed to theoretically support larger sectors sizes, NTFS assumed
that these two sector sizes were equal. When NTFS performs buffered
writes at the end of a file in Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2,
NTFS pads the write operation to the end of the sector size which is
exposed by the disk interface (the logical sector size). This behavior
guarantees sector alignment. However, because the size of a logical
sector of a 512e drive is 512 bytes, the buffered write does not align
to the physical sector size of the drive’s hard disk. This causes the
Advanced Format disk to internally update the 512-byte logical sector
within its 4KB physical sector, which can result in performance and
reliability issues.

This hotfix introduces behavior to NTFS which makes sure that buffered
writes at the end of the file are padded to the reported physical
sector size of the disk.

This issue can manifest itself with everyday applications on an
Advanced Format disk. However, this issue occurs most frequently
when you perform many small writes, such as using the ImageX
command-line tool in Windows 7 or in Windows Server 2008 R2 to
apply a Microsoft Windows Image (.wim file) to an Advanced Format
disk.
Without the hotfix, ImageX takes significantly longer to complete the
operation than if you were to apply the same operation to a
traditional hard disk.
"

You could have a disk with 4KB internal sectors, with 512e emulation.
And then it's a matter of what the OS is able to determine, about
the true dimensions of the drive, such as physical or logical
sector size. Windows 7 likely could have handled a declared 4KB
sector just fine, but the 512e emulation provided for operation
with older OSes, may "slightly shoot in the foot" lots of things.

If you're bored, I'm sure there is plenty of material to read.

I've noticed some weirdness about my 500GB drive, that makes
me wonder how it really works inside. And if you can't get
straight answers from reporting utilities (or from the product
datasheet), it's pretty hard to conclude anything.

One thing I noticed, is optimal commands in "dd" on older drives,
are no longer optimal on my new 500GB single platter drives.
The new drive does better with "counter-intuitive" smaller block
sizes (which means, finally, the cache memory chip is actually
being used). It can make a factor of three difference in some
of the things I attempt with it. And it means fiddling around
until I find the most efficient command to use (re-start the
command, if the measured performance is wrong). I use the
Performance plugin, amongst other things, for monitoring.

Your "Transfer Rate Minimum" is pretty low. That could be
some bad blocks. Try the HDTune bad block scan, and let
it run from end to end on the disk. You're likely to see
solid green blocks, so it's not like I expect to see any
red blocks in the test. Then, rerun the transfer rate benchmark
right after that. See if the curve looks at all different.
HDTune should be less affected by alignment issues (but you
never know absolutely for sure with these things). My 500GB
drive "perked up", after being scanned once - technical
explanation unknown, since resolving pending bad blocks
is done on writes. Sequential reads really shouldn't do anything,
except to "sweep the dirt off the platter" :)

Paul
Thanks Paul,
I was doing some reading there already, and saw toward the bottom that that
hotfix is included with Win7 SP1. I have SP1 installed, so am assuming I am
covered by that.
 
A

Agent_C

Anybody have any tips on improving HD performance? My main drive is a
Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 with the latest firmware (CC49). Motherboard is
Asus P6X58D PREMIUM with latest drivers and BIOS. The HD is connected
through the Intel ICH10R Controller, with SATA 3.0 Gb/s. There is a Marvell
Controller with SATA 6.0 Gb/s ports, but ASUS specs say these are for "data
hard drives only". This has deterred me from connecting the boot drive to
one of the Marvell ports, and I'm not sure that would help anyway. This is
a Win7/64 Pro install.

HD Tune results are as follows:
Read transfer rate
Transfer Rate Minimum : 2.0 MB/s
Transfer Rate Maximum : 119.6 MB/s
Transfer Rate Average : 72.3 MB/s
Access Time : 22.3 ms
Burst Rate : 178.0 MB/s
CPU Usage : 1.1%

Don't drive yourself crazy trying to squeeze more performance out of
that (or any other) drive. Just make sure you've got Write Caching
enabled in Device Manager and be resolute that performance is the what
it is.

Many factors affect performance; hard drive performance is just one.

A_C
 
K

KCB

Agent_C said:
Don't drive yourself crazy trying to squeeze more performance out of
that (or any other) drive. Just make sure you've got Write Caching
enabled in Device Manager and be resolute that performance is the what
it is.

Many factors affect performance; hard drive performance is just one.

A_C
Well, I'm not driving myself crazy, yet, but still can't understand such
mediocre stats. The machine in question doesn't seem slow, but after
reading so many HD and SSD reviews, I have determined that it MUST be slow.
j/k
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

A quick check at Newegg turned up this 1TB beast.

<http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227753>

It's a hybrid, though, claiming to be intelligent enough to store
frequently accessed data on the SSD portion and infrequently accessed
data on the spinning platter.

This next one seems to be a pure SSD with a capacity of 960GB.

<http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227713>
And reduced $280, so now it's only $2419.99. I guess I'll get two or
three :)

Oh - maybe not - it's only SATA II. This MB has two SATA 600 ports.
 
C

Char Jackson

And reduced $280, so now it's only $2419.99. I guess I'll get two or
three :)

Oh - maybe not - it's only SATA II. This MB has two SATA 600 ports.
It's way out of my league, and not because it's only SATA II. :)
 
E

Ed Cryer

It's way out of my league, and not because it's only SATA II. :)
Me too. But I guess they're the future; and that means they'll come down
in price as people start buying, just as has happened with USB memory
sticks.

Ed
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

Me too. But I guess they're the future; and that means they'll come down
in price as people start buying, just as has happened with USB memory
sticks.

Ed
Kidding aside, I do remain concerned about the need to randomize the
access to blocks in SSDs, because of the finite life cycle of flash
memory.

I might be worrying too much (or thinking too much in the past), but
still...
 
C

Char Jackson

Kidding aside, I do remain concerned about the need to randomize the
access to blocks in SSDs, because of the finite life cycle of flash
memory.

I might be worrying too much (or thinking too much in the past), but
still...
I read an article recently, which might have been linked here in this
newsgroup, that said that current leveling algorithms had progressed
to the point where SSD's can be expected to have a longer lifespan
than spinning platter drives, so I guess I'm not worried about it.

Wow, what a run-on sentence.
 
A

Andy Burns

Gene said:
I do remain concerned about the need to randomize the
access to blocks in SSDs, because of the finite life cycle of flash
memory.
You (or rather the O/S) don't need to worry about that with current
SSDs, they have internal wear-levelling (and a stash of spare sectors to
use in place of ailing ones).
 
A

Andy Burns

Char said:
I read an article recently, that said that current leveling
algorithms had progressed to the point where SSD's can be expected to
have a longer lifespan than spinning platter drives
Intel guarantee their 3rd generation SSDs to cope with 20GB of writes
every day for 5 years.
 
J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

Char Jackson said:
I read an article recently, which might have been linked here in this
newsgroup, that said that current leveling algorithms had progressed
to the point where SSD's can be expected to have a longer lifespan
than spinning platter drives, so I guess I'm not worried about it.

Wow, what a run-on sentence.
(Long, yes, but I had no trouble understanding it - you write clearly.)

My main concern - based on shaky foundation! - is that they will still
fail suddenly and completely (especially if wear-levelling is built in),
whereas platter drives usually (I know not always) give some indication
they're going. Yes, I know if you're backing up regularly this shouldn't
make any difference ...

Do SSDs have SMART?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Everyone has always regarded any usage but his own as either barbarous or
pedantic." - Evelyn Waugh, quoted by Lynne Truss in "Eats, shoots & Leaves"
2003
 
A

Andy Burns

J. P. Gilliver (John) said:
Do SSDs have SMART?
They do, though most HDDs seem to throw a few rubbish numbers into the
SMART counters, not seen whether SSDs are any better behaved.

e.g see final screenshot on this page

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/f...ves.-(Agility2-Vertex2-Vertex2-Pro-Vertex-LE)

In addition several of the SSD manufacturers provide a "toolkit" that
gives an indication of the amount of life left in the drive.

http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?agr=Y&DwnldID=18455
 
A

Andy Burns

Andy said:
most HDDs seem to throw a few rubbish numbers into the
SMART counters, not seen whether SSDs are any better behaved.
Apparently not, this SSD is effectively an Intel X25 in disguise, I've
got a Sandforce based Corsair SSD in my main laptop, I'll see if it
fares any better.

HDDScan S.M.A.R.T. Report
Model: KINGSTON SV100S264G
Firmware: D110225a
Serial: 64GBxxxxxxxx
LBA: 125045424
Report By: HDDScan for Windows version 3.3
Report Date: 11/14/2011 10:59:35 AM
Detected Controller: Jmf612

Num Attribute Name Value Worst Threshold
--- ---------------------- ---- ---- -----
001 Raw Read Error Rate 100 100 050
002 Throughput performance 100 100 050
003 Fake Spin Up Time 100 100 050
005 Initial Bad Blocks Count 100 100 050
007 Unknown Attribute 100 100 050
008 Unknown Attribute 100 100 050
009 Power-On Hours Count 100 100 000
010 Unknown Attribute 100 100 050
012 Device Power Cycle Count 100 100 000
168 Unknown Attribute 100 100 000
175 Program Fail Count (Chip) 100 100 010
192 Unsafe Shutdown Count 100 100 000
194 SSD Temperature or Empty 040 100 020
197 Number of ECC 100 100 000
240 Unknown Attribute 100 100 050
170 Reserved Blocks Count 100 100 010
173 Wear Leveling Count 100 100 000
 
P

Paul

Andy said:
Apparently not, this SSD is effectively an Intel X25 in disguise, I've
got a Sandforce based Corsair SSD in my main laptop, I'll see if it
fares any better.

HDDScan S.M.A.R.T. Report
Model: KINGSTON SV100S264G
Firmware: D110225a
Serial: 64GBxxxxxxxx
LBA: 125045424
Report By: HDDScan for Windows version 3.3
Report Date: 11/14/2011 10:59:35 AM
Detected Controller: Jmf612

Num Attribute Name Value Worst Threshold
--- ---------------------- ---- ---- -----
001 Raw Read Error Rate 100 100 050
002 Throughput performance 100 100 050
003 Fake Spin Up Time 100 100 050
005 Initial Bad Blocks Count 100 100 050
007 Unknown Attribute 100 100 050
008 Unknown Attribute 100 100 050
009 Power-On Hours Count 100 100 000
010 Unknown Attribute 100 100 050
012 Device Power Cycle Count 100 100 000
168 Unknown Attribute 100 100 000
175 Program Fail Count (Chip) 100 100 010
192 Unsafe Shutdown Count 100 100 000
194 SSD Temperature or Empty 040 100 020
197 Number of ECC 100 100 000
240 Unknown Attribute 100 100 050
170 Reserved Blocks Count 100 100 010
173 Wear Leveling Count 100 100 000
I found this quote kinda funny -

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2166695

"True, you can't go by rating alone, since my last SSD
showed 100%, yet it failed without any of the SMART parameters
increasing or decreasing."

So an open question would be, whether SMART (and the new parameters
added specifically for SSDs), have any predictive qualities.

Even hard drives can have a "here today, gone tomorrow" behavior
to them. The Seagate drives with firmware bugs, are like that.
But at least some of those, can be revived. And any reading
I've done on SSDs, if there is a so-called recovery procedure, it's
usually "data antagonistic" and erases everything. Whereas
hard drives have a wider assortment of outcomes.

Paul
 

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