Dump W7 for XP - HELP!

[jbm]

I am getting fed up with Windows 7, especially because a lot of programs are
hanging for no apparent reason, including a constant failure of DirectX 11.
This computer is a new (last October).

Computer: HP G5105uk, Athlon II X3 440 3.0GHz, 450GB HD (C + D, latter is
system recovery), 3GB memory.
OS: Win7 Home Premium 64-bit. (It's the 64-bit that's really pissing me
off.)
Display: NVIDIA GeForce 6150SE nForce 430 on board.
Monitor: HP S2331a wide screen.
Sound: Realtek on board.
Inputs: USB only. No serial or PS2.

I have installed various editions of Windows (from Win 3.1 onwards) on
several different machines so I know what I'm doing.

So to the questions.
1. Is it possible to dump Window 7 completely, reformat the HD, partition
into two different drives (say 100GB + 350GB), and then install my own copy
of Windows XP Professional?
2. Or does the architecture of a 64-bit machine make this difficult or
impossible?
3. Will my XP compatible 16- and 32-bit programs then run?
4. Will my Canon 8000F 32-bit scanner work?
5. Later on, if I feel so inclined and can afford it, can I redo the same
thing with Window 7 Professional?

6. As an alternative, I have only ever installed single operation systems on
a single boot drive, and partitioned drives that are freshly formatted.
Would it be possible to create a new partition on the C: drive, leaving the
existing C: & D: drives intact, and install Win XP Pro on that, and have the
choice of OS on boot? If it is, is the full procedure explained on the Web
somewhere?

jim

 

[Vic RR Garcia]

I am getting fed up with Windows 7, especially because a lot of programs
are hanging for no apparent reason, including a constant failure of
DirectX 11. This computer is a new (last October).

Computer: HP G5105uk, Athlon II X3 440 3.0GHz, 450GB HD (C + D, latter
is system recovery), 3GB memory.
OS: Win7 Home Premium 64-bit. (It's the 64-bit that's really pissing me
off.)
Display: NVIDIA GeForce 6150SE nForce 430 on board.
Monitor: HP S2331a wide screen.
Sound: Realtek on board.
Inputs: USB only. No serial or PS2.

I have installed various editions of Windows (from Win 3.1 onwards) on
several different machines so I know what I'm doing.

So to the questions.
1. Is it possible to dump Window 7 completely, reformat the HD,
partition into two different drives (say 100GB + 350GB), and then
install my own copy of Windows XP Professional?
2. Or does the architecture of a 64-bit machine make this difficult or
impossible?
3. Will my XP compatible 16- and 32-bit programs then run?
4. Will my Canon 8000F 32-bit scanner work?
5. Later on, if I feel so inclined and can afford it, can I redo the
same thing with Window 7 Professional?

6. As an alternative, I have only ever installed single operation
systems on a single boot drive, and partitioned drives that are freshly
formatted. Would it be possible to create a new partition on the C:
drive, leaving the existing C: & D: drives intact, and install Win XP
Pro on that, and have the choice of OS on boot? If it is, is the full
procedure explained on the Web somewhere?

jim

"I have installed various editions of Windows (from Win 3.1 onwards) on
several different machines so I know what I'm doing."

If you need to ask those simple questions, NO, you do NOT know how to do it.

All the stuff you ask for, can be done, but is not as easy as you think.

Why on hell did you installed a 64 bit OS if your machine only has 3GBy
of RAM ????

 

[SC Tom]

I am getting fed up with Windows 7, especially because a lot of programs
are hanging for no apparent reason, including a constant failure of DirectX
11. This computer is a new (last October).

Computer: HP G5105uk, Athlon II X3 440 3.0GHz, 450GB HD (C + D, latter is
system recovery), 3GB memory.
OS: Win7 Home Premium 64-bit. (It's the 64-bit that's really pissing me
off.)
Display: NVIDIA GeForce 6150SE nForce 430 on board.
Monitor: HP S2331a wide screen.
Sound: Realtek on board.
Inputs: USB only. No serial or PS2.

I have installed various editions of Windows (from Win 3.1 onwards) on
several different machines so I know what I'm doing.

So to the questions.
1. Is it possible to dump Window 7 completely, reformat the HD, partition
into two different drives (say 100GB + 350GB), and then install my own
copy of Windows XP Professional?
2. Or does the architecture of a 64-bit machine make this difficult or
impossible?
3. Will my XP compatible 16- and 32-bit programs then run?
4. Will my Canon 8000F 32-bit scanner work?
5. Later on, if I feel so inclined and can afford it, can I redo the same
thing with Window 7 Professional?

6. As an alternative, I have only ever installed single operation systems
on a single boot drive, and partitioned drives that are freshly formatted.
Would it be possible to create a new partition on the C: drive, leaving
the existing C: & D: drives intact, and install Win XP Pro on that, and
have the choice of OS on boot? If it is, is the full procedure explained
on the Web somewhere?

jim

1. If there are HP drivers for WinXP for your model, that wouldn't/shouldn't
be a problem. If you really think it's the 64-bit that causing the problem,
maybe you'd be better off with Win7 32-bit; your chances of there being
drivers for it will probably be better than for WinXP. One partition would
be fine; the choice is yours.
2. Not at all.
3. XP programs will run on XP (since that's what you are wanting to install
)
4. Check with Canon for XP drivers for that scanner.
5. Shouldn't be a problem. Just remember that there is no direct upgrade
route from XP to Win7; everything will have to be re-installed.
6. That may work, but I've never done it. I've read of users that have, so a
Google search or another reply here may be in order.

If you upgrade to a better(?) version of Win7 such as Professional or
Ultimate, then you can run XP mode in it. (I guess "more advanced" would be
more accurate than "better.") I've heard that runs very well.

 

[Big Steel]

I am getting fed up with Windows 7, especially because a lot of programs
are hanging for no apparent reason, including a constant failure of
DirectX 11. This computer is a new (last October).

Then something must have happened. I had programs hang on Vista after a
Windows update. I rolled back to a restore point prior to the update,
went on about my business and never looked back. I didn't resort to the
sky is falling, and I didn't have crawl back with my tail between legs
to XP.

 

[Paul]

I am getting fed up with Windows 7, especially because a lot of programs
are hanging for no apparent reason, including a constant failure of
DirectX 11. This computer is a new (last October).

Computer: HP G5105uk, Athlon II X3 440 3.0GHz, 450GB HD (C + D, latter
is system recovery), 3GB memory.
OS: Win7 Home Premium 64-bit. (It's the 64-bit that's really pissing me
off.)
Display: NVIDIA GeForce 6150SE nForce 430 on board.
Monitor: HP S2331a wide screen.
Sound: Realtek on board.
Inputs: USB only. No serial or PS2.

I have installed various editions of Windows (from Win 3.1 onwards) on
several different machines so I know what I'm doing.

So to the questions.
1. Is it possible to dump Window 7 completely, reformat the HD,
partition into two different drives (say 100GB + 350GB), and then
install my own copy of Windows XP Professional?
2. Or does the architecture of a 64-bit machine make this difficult or
impossible?
3. Will my XP compatible 16- and 32-bit programs then run?
4. Will my Canon 8000F 32-bit scanner work?
5. Later on, if I feel so inclined and can afford it, can I redo the
same thing with Window 7 Professional?

6. As an alternative, I have only ever installed single operation
systems on a single boot drive, and partitioned drives that are freshly
formatted. Would it be possible to create a new partition on the C:
drive, leaving the existing C: & D: drives intact, and install Win XP
Pro on that, and have the choice of OS on boot? If it is, is the full
procedure explained on the Web somewhere?

jim

The "NVIDIA GeForce 6150SE nForce 430" is a relatively mature chipset,
used for a while. At a guess, you could probably load WinXP on there.

Your 64 bit processor, allows both 64 bit and 32 bit OSes to be installed.

http://www.codeproject.com/KB/system/AMD64_EM64T_architectur.aspx

Table 1. Processor operating modes.

http://www.codeproject.com/KB/system/AMD64_EM64T_architectur/02000000.png

So with some work, you might get WinXP 32 bit installed there. It
means the usual wasted time, searching for drivers. Getting the
jumbo packages off the Nvidia site would be part of that.

In terms of multiboot, and OS install order, if you wanted to put
WinXP and Windows 7 on the same hard drive, you'd install WinXP first,
then install Windows 7. That allows the Windows 7 installer DVD, to
notice a legacy OS is present, and add it to the BCD based boot
method used by Windows 7. (That is a "for free" method, saving
lots of time.) If you reverse the order, WinXP hasn't a clue
what is going on. If WinXP sees Windows 7, it won't be adding it
to the boot menu in WinXP. So installing WinXP second, is going to
mean more work.

In my opinion, adding a hard drive for $50, and placing the new OS
on that, is the best method. By doing it that way, you can pull either
drive, and the OSes are independent of one another. I'm doing that
right now on my computer - two Windows OSes, one per disk. Two
SATA disks total. To select an OS, when the computer starts, I press
F8 and the BIOS detects that keypress and puts up a BIOS "boot menu".
In there, I select one of the two hard drives, according to which OS I want.
(This feature is not present on really old computers. Half the
computers in the house, don't support this.)

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa279/Von_klumpen/boot_pop.jpg

If you multiboot on the same hard drive, and you remove the "boss"
OS, the one with the boot menu, then you have to repair the boot
setup for the remaining OS. Perhaps all it takes is moving the
boot flag to the other partition.

As an amateur and a home user, if I faced your scenario (multiboot
two OSes from same hard drive), and WinXP is installed second, I would

1) Back up the Windows 7 partition. I would do sector by sector backup,
because I'm a lazy guy. I'd do that, using a Linux LiveCD. It would
go something like this (a Linux command from a terminal windows)

sudo dd if=/dev/hda1 of=/media/Windows/win7.dd

What that does, is copy the first partition of disk "hda", into
a file system I mounted "/media/Windows" and stores the entire
Windows 7 partition, as "win7.dd", a huge file. I reverse that
transfer direction, to repair any damage to hda1 my install
process may have caused. The partition type could be NTFS or EXT2,
in other words, the partition must be able to handle really
large files (FAT32 has a 4GB limit and would be a poor place to
save this backup).

Note - this step is optional, but is a fallback if something goes
wrong. Have I needed such backups - yes. By storing an image of
the partition, I can just "dd" it back if I do something stupid.

Everyone has their own favorite backup method, and that's mine.

2) Install WinXP. Have it prepare a partition, and not stomp on
the Windows 7 partition.

3) Now, WinXP has overwritten the MBR. WinXP is booting. Windows 7
is not booting.

AFAIK, WinXP can't hand off boot to Windows 7, as Windows 7 is
based on BCD and WinXP is based on boot.ini. We need to "make
Windows 7 the boss" or alternately, use a third party boot loader.
(I used to use BootMagic for this, but haven't used it in some time.)

4) So now we boot the Windows 7 repair CD (prepared when you were
prompted by your computer, to burn a repair CD after you
got the new computer). It has options to repair the ability of
Windows 7 to boot ("Startup Repair"). The CD will find the
Windows 7 partition, go down and overwrite the code portion
of the MBR segment (leaving the partition table intact), and
restore the ability for Windows 7 to boot.

http://www.howtogeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/image19.png

But now, by doing that, WinXP can't boot. But the solution to
that is pretty simple.

5) Now, get a copy of EasyBCD. (Free for private, non-commercial use)

http://neosmart.net/dl.php?id=1

I used EasyBCD in a virtual environment, to repair the boot menu.
And did basically as described here.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4139/4782814638_161b7480b3_o.png

That tool should allow you to "add" WinXP to the Windows 7
BCD boot menu. At boot time, the OS boot window (hosted by Windows 7),
will show two OSes, and you use the cursor key to select one of them.

Now, both OSes should boot. Windows 7 is doing the booting, but
can hand off control to WinXP. If you decide to remove or delete
Windows 7, you'll need to "repair" and "clean up" the boot
process again for WinXP. That will require

a) Move boot flag from the Windows 7 partition to the WinXP partition.
b) Do a "FixMBR" to load the correct boot code into the MBR sector,
so that the WinXP boot.ini based OS can boot.

That's the curse of multibooting (multiple OSes on one hard drive),
the maintenance of "bootability". As a person who would rather not
deal with that, I use separate disks. If I unplug an OS disk,
nothing happens to the other disk, "it just works". My BIOS popup
boot menu is an integral part of making that easy to use. If
your computer lacks the F8 or F11 bootup menu, then with a
two disk system, you'll be entering the BIOS to change the boot order,
a lot.

HTH,
Paul

 

[Dominique]

Vic RR Garcia <[email protected]> écrivait [email protected]:

Why on hell did you installed a 64 bit OS if your machine only has 3GBy
of RAM ????

The OP computer is a HP, so the OS must have been preinstalled.

 

[Ken]

1. If there are HP drivers for WinXP for your model, that
wouldn't/shouldn't be a problem. If you really think it's the 64-bit
that causing the problem, maybe you'd be better off with Win7 32-bit;
your chances of there being drivers for it will probably be better than
for WinXP. One partition would be fine; the choice is yours.
2. Not at all.
3. XP programs will run on XP (since that's what you are wanting to
install )
4. Check with Canon for XP drivers for that scanner.
5. Shouldn't be a problem. Just remember that there is no direct upgrade
route from XP to Win7; everything will have to be re-installed.
6. That may work, but I've never done it. I've read of users that have,
so a Google search or another reply here may be in order.

If you upgrade to a better(?) version of Win7 such as Professional or
Ultimate, then you can run XP mode in it. (I guess "more advanced" would
be more accurate than "better.") I've heard that runs very well.

Isn't there also a problem with SATA drivers when installing XP???
Most likely he has SATA drives in his computer and XP does not have
them. It can be done, but not easily from what I have read.

 

[Dominique]

Isn't there also a problem with SATA drivers when installing XP???
Most likely he has SATA drives in his computer and XP does not have
them. It can be done, but not easily from what I have read.

It's AHCI that is not natively supported by XP and the driver needs to be
installed at the same time than the OS (it's possible to install it later
but it's quite a hack), there's usually a "switch" in the BIOS to put the
hard drives controller in IDE mode which works with XP even with SATA
drives. Ideally if the computer doesn't have a floppy drive (like most
recent computers), it's possible to create a new XP installation CD and
integrate the AHCI driver, the process is called "slipstream" and is easy
to achieve with a program like nLite.

 

[SC Tom]

Isn't there also a problem with SATA drivers when installing XP??? Most
likely he has SATA drives in his computer and XP does not have them. It
can be done, but not easily from what I have read.

IIRC, that was added into SP2. So if he used an install CD with XP SP2 or
better, that wouldn't be a problem. But you are correct, with an XP original
CD, it would require using F6 to load the SATA drivers from a floppy disk
(and anyone who has a somewhat newer computer knows what a treat THAT can be
).

 

[Jan Alter]

The "NVIDIA GeForce 6150SE nForce 430" is a relatively mature chipset,
used for a while. At a guess, you could probably load WinXP on there.

Your 64 bit processor, allows both 64 bit and 32 bit OSes to be installed.

http://www.codeproject.com/KB/system/AMD64_EM64T_architectur.aspx

Table 1. Processor operating modes.


http://www.codeproject.com/KB/system/AMD64_EM64T_architectur/02000000.png

So with some work, you might get WinXP 32 bit installed there. It
means the usual wasted time, searching for drivers. Getting the
jumbo packages off the Nvidia site would be part of that.

In terms of multiboot, and OS install order, if you wanted to put
WinXP and Windows 7 on the same hard drive, you'd install WinXP first,
then install Windows 7. That allows the Windows 7 installer DVD, to
notice a legacy OS is present, and add it to the BCD based boot
method used by Windows 7. (That is a "for free" method, saving
lots of time.) If you reverse the order, WinXP hasn't a clue
what is going on. If WinXP sees Windows 7, it won't be adding it
to the boot menu in WinXP. So installing WinXP second, is going to
mean more work.

In my opinion, adding a hard drive for $50, and placing the new OS
on that, is the best method. By doing it that way, you can pull either
drive, and the OSes are independent of one another. I'm doing that
right now on my computer - two Windows OSes, one per disk. Two
SATA disks total. To select an OS, when the computer starts, I press
F8 and the BIOS detects that keypress and puts up a BIOS "boot menu".
In there, I select one of the two hard drives, according to which OS I
want.
(This feature is not present on really old computers. Half the
computers in the house, don't support this.)

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa279/Von_klumpen/boot_pop.jpg

If you multiboot on the same hard drive, and you remove the "boss"
OS, the one with the boot menu, then you have to repair the boot
setup for the remaining OS. Perhaps all it takes is moving the
boot flag to the other partition.

As an amateur and a home user, if I faced your scenario (multiboot
two OSes from same hard drive), and WinXP is installed second, I would

1) Back up the Windows 7 partition. I would do sector by sector backup,
because I'm a lazy guy. I'd do that, using a Linux LiveCD. It would
go something like this (a Linux command from a terminal windows)

sudo dd if=/dev/hda1 of=/media/Windows/win7.dd

What that does, is copy the first partition of disk "hda", into
a file system I mounted "/media/Windows" and stores the entire
Windows 7 partition, as "win7.dd", a huge file. I reverse that
transfer direction, to repair any damage to hda1 my install
process may have caused. The partition type could be NTFS or EXT2,
in other words, the partition must be able to handle really
large files (FAT32 has a 4GB limit and would be a poor place to
save this backup).

Note - this step is optional, but is a fallback if something goes
wrong. Have I needed such backups - yes. By storing an image of
the partition, I can just "dd" it back if I do something stupid.

Everyone has their own favorite backup method, and that's mine.

2) Install WinXP. Have it prepare a partition, and not stomp on
the Windows 7 partition.

3) Now, WinXP has overwritten the MBR. WinXP is booting. Windows 7
is not booting.

AFAIK, WinXP can't hand off boot to Windows 7, as Windows 7 is
based on BCD and WinXP is based on boot.ini. We need to "make
Windows 7 the boss" or alternately, use a third party boot loader.
(I used to use BootMagic for this, but haven't used it in some time.)

4) So now we boot the Windows 7 repair CD (prepared when you were
prompted by your computer, to burn a repair CD after you
got the new computer). It has options to repair the ability of
Windows 7 to boot ("Startup Repair"). The CD will find the
Windows 7 partition, go down and overwrite the code portion
of the MBR segment (leaving the partition table intact), and
restore the ability for Windows 7 to boot.

http://www.howtogeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/image19.png

But now, by doing that, WinXP can't boot. But the solution to
that is pretty simple.

5) Now, get a copy of EasyBCD. (Free for private, non-commercial use)

http://neosmart.net/dl.php?id=1

I used EasyBCD in a virtual environment, to repair the boot menu.
And did basically as described here.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4139/4782814638_161b7480b3_o.png

That tool should allow you to "add" WinXP to the Windows 7
BCD boot menu. At boot time, the OS boot window (hosted by Windows 7),
will show two OSes, and you use the cursor key to select one of them.

Now, both OSes should boot. Windows 7 is doing the booting, but
can hand off control to WinXP. If you decide to remove or delete
Windows 7, you'll need to "repair" and "clean up" the boot
process again for WinXP. That will require

a) Move boot flag from the Windows 7 partition to the WinXP partition.
b) Do a "FixMBR" to load the correct boot code into the MBR sector,
so that the WinXP boot.ini based OS can boot.

That's the curse of multibooting (multiple OSes on one hard drive),
the maintenance of "bootability". As a person who would rather not
deal with that, I use separate disks. If I unplug an OS disk,
nothing happens to the other disk, "it just works". My BIOS popup
boot menu is an integral part of making that easy to use. If
your computer lacks the F8 or F11 bootup menu, then with a
two disk system, you'll be entering the BIOS to change the boot order,
a lot.

HTH,
Paul

I agree with Paul in terms of the simplicity of the situation to booting XP
and Win7 on separate drives. It would cost another $50 for an additional
drive, but one has the complete autonomy to deal with each OS without
contingency on a boot loader and can deal with any OS problems in a much
more straight forward way..

 

[Yousuf Khan]

I am getting fed up with Windows 7, especially because a lot of programs
are hanging for no apparent reason, including a constant failure of
DirectX 11. This computer is a new (last October).

The DirectX11 failures can be taken care of by updating the Nvidia drivers.

Computer: HP G5105uk, Athlon II X3 440 3.0GHz, 450GB HD (C + D, latter
is system recovery), 3GB memory.
OS: Win7 Home Premium 64-bit. (It's the 64-bit that's really pissing me
off.)

Why? What's 64-bit got to do with it? Most 32-bit programs will work
just fine on it, without needing 64-bit versions. The only exceptions
are drivers, which access low-level parts of the hardware, so you
definitely need 64-bit versions there. I suppose this is your biggest
problem, since you mentioned your Canon scanner later on. Are there any
other problems you've noticed with this Windows?

Display: NVIDIA GeForce 6150SE nForce 430 on board.
Monitor: HP S2331a wide screen.
Sound: Realtek on board.
Inputs: USB only. No serial or PS2.

I have installed various editions of Windows (from Win 3.1 onwards) on
several different machines so I know what I'm doing.

So to the questions.
1. Is it possible to dump Window 7 completely, reformat the HD,
partition into two different drives (say 100GB + 350GB), and then
install my own copy of Windows XP Professional?
2. Or does the architecture of a 64-bit machine make this difficult or
impossible?
3. Will my XP compatible 16- and 32-bit programs then run?

You still have 16-bit programs? Well, sure XP will be able to run 16-bit
programs.

4. Will my Canon 8000F 32-bit scanner work?

There are apparently now 64-bit drivers for that Canon.

Driver for Canoscan 8000F
http://www.w7forums.com/driver-canoscan-8000f-t3584.html

5. Later on, if I feel so inclined and can afford it, can I redo the
same thing with Window 7 Professional?

6. As an alternative, I have only ever installed single operation
systems on a single boot drive, and partitioned drives that are freshly
formatted. Would it be possible to create a new partition on the C:
drive, leaving the existing C: & D: drives intact, and install Win XP
Pro on that, and have the choice of OS on boot? If it is, is the full
procedure explained on the Web somewhere?

Actually it's very simple to resize your partitions using Windows 7. Go
into Disk Management from Control Panel, and one of the new options
available for disks is to shrink a partition. You can then create
another partition where you can install XP if you like. You can shrink a
partition as long as the partition is not full. I'd say a 64GB partition
should be sufficient for XP, maybe even 32GB.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Twayne]

In

Isn't there also a problem with SATA drivers when
installing XP??? Most likely he has SATA drives in his
computer and XP does not have them. It can be done, but
not easily from what I have read.

Not a problem with XP Pro, at least. SATA drivers are with the install disk;
I've installted the OS several times for people and never a problem with
SATA as long as it's SP2 or later.

HTH,

Twayne`

 

[Yousuf Khan]

Not a problem with XP Pro, at least. SATA drivers are with the install disk;
I've installted the OS several times for people and never a problem with
SATA as long as it's SP2 or later.

By default, SATA controllers come pre-configured to emulate IDE
controllers through the BIOS. It's only when you go into native SATA
mode, aka AHCI mode, that you will have problems with Windows XP.
Actually, you'll also have problems with Windows 7 if you set it up
initially on IDE emulation mode, and then later switch to native mode.

Yousuf Khan

 

[jbm]

Thanks all for your help. As I thought, it's not quite as simple as I
thought. The query was very much 'pie in the sky', and I guess that's where
it's going to stay. Best to start looking for a second hand XP laptop, which
will allow all the old programs and scanner to run properly.

To answer two specific points raised in your answers:

A lot of my old programs won't even install in Win7, even under the 32-bit
option. And some others that do won't run because of the lack of certain
files in the Windows directory. I started listing them all for one program
with the intention of finding them on the web or another computer and
installing them, but finally gave up the ghost at 20 files, only
fractionally into the list.

And the question that has arisen here previously by other people. The last
word from Canon is that there will never be a 64-bit driver for their older
scanners (8000 family & earlier Lides). They released a statement that they
were developing one, but they later admitted that was false. They never
intended to, and never intend to develop one. There is a 32-bit driver for
Vista, but it has issues with Win7. Twain have stated that they only issue
information and tools for developing drivers, but not actual drivers. And no
one out there has yet managed to produce a viable generic 64-bit driver for
32-bit scanners.

jim

 

[Char Jackson]

Thanks all for your help. As I thought, it's not quite as simple as I
thought. The query was very much 'pie in the sky', and I guess that's where
it's going to stay. Best to start looking for a second hand XP laptop, which
will allow all the old programs and scanner to run properly.

That's one option among many.

To answer two specific points raised in your answers:

A lot of my old programs won't even install in Win7, even under the 32-bit
option.

What's "the 32-bit option"?

And some others that do won't run because of the lack of certain
files in the Windows directory. I started listing them all for one program
with the intention of finding them on the web or another computer and
installing them, but finally gave up the ghost at 20 files, only
fractionally into the list.

Something doesn't sound right. What's the name of the program you're
referring to above?

And the question that has arisen here previously by other people. The last
word from Canon is that there will never be a 64-bit driver for their older
scanners (8000 family & earlier Lides). They released a statement that they
were developing one, but they later admitted that was false. They never
intended to, and never intend to develop one. There is a 32-bit driver for
Vista, but it has issues with Win7. Twain have stated that they only issue
information and tools for developing drivers, but not actual drivers. And no
one out there has yet managed to produce a viable generic 64-bit driver for
32-bit scanners.

Are you sure about that last part? I don't think there's any such
animal as a 32-bit scanner. The scanner is what it is; just a piece of
hardware. It's the driver that needs to be 32-bit or 64-bit, whatever
is required by the host OS. Or am I missing something?

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Thanks all for your help. As I thought, it's not quite as simple as I
thought. The query was very much 'pie in the sky', and I guess that's where
it's going to stay. Best to start looking for a second hand XP laptop, which
will allow all the old programs and scanner to run properly.

To answer two specific points raised in your answers:

A lot of my old programs won't even install in Win7, even under the 32-bit
option. And some others that do won't run because of the lack of certain
files in the Windows directory. I started listing them all for one program
with the intention of finding them on the web or another computer and
installing them, but finally gave up the ghost at 20 files, only
fractionally into the list.

And the question that has arisen here previously by other people. The last
word from Canon is that there will never be a 64-bit driver for their older
scanners (8000 family & earlier Lides). They released a statement that they
were developing one, but they later admitted that was false. They never
intended to, and never intend to develop one. There is a 32-bit driver for
Vista, but it has issues with Win7. Twain have stated that they only issue
information and tools for developing drivers, but not actual drivers. And no
one out there has yet managed to produce a viable generic 64-bit driver for
32-bit scanners.

jim

Char Jackson said there are other options. One that I use to good effect
for legacy hardware and maybe even some software is VMware with a
license for Windows XP. Cheaper than a laptop (unless you already have
the laptop).

 

[Bob I]

"I have installed various editions of Windows (from Win 3.1 onwards) on
several different machines so I know what I'm doing."

If you need to ask those simple questions, NO, you do NOT know how to do
it.

All the stuff you ask for, can be done, but is not as easy as you think.

Why on hell did you installed a 64 bit OS if your machine only has 3GBy
of RAM ????

Practice?

 

[Leon Manfredi]

1. If there are HP drivers for WinXP for your model, that wouldn't/shouldn't
be a problem. If you really think it's the 64-bit that causing the problem,
maybe you'd be better off with Win7 32-bit; your chances of there being
drivers for it will probably be better than for WinXP. One partition would
be fine; the choice is yours.
2. Not at all.
3. XP programs will run on XP (since that's what you are wanting to install
)
4. Check with Canon for XP drivers for that scanner.
5. Shouldn't be a problem. Just remember that there is no direct upgrade
route from XP to Win7; everything will have to be re-installed.
6. That may work, but I've never done it. I've read of users that have, so a
Google search or another reply here may be in order.

If you upgrade to a better(?) version of Win7 such as Professional or
Ultimate, then you can run XP mode in it. (I guess "more advanced" would be
more accurate than "better.") I've heard that runs very well.

Wondering if one just places their XP Cd, in a spare cdrive, and let
Win7 decide.... (or copy the XP Cd, to a spare drive's folder)

 

[Yousuf Khan]

Char Jackson said there are other options. One that I use to good effect
for legacy hardware and maybe even some software is VMware with a
license for Windows XP. Cheaper than a laptop (unless you already have
the laptop).

It seems like this scanner is important to him. And it's the lack of
driver for this scanner that has him most frustrated. I don't know why
but for some reason people are really attached to their scanners,
especially Canon ones. I have a friend who is like this too. He has a
Canon scanner, and even though I've told him to just simply dump it for
a $99 printer/scanner which will likely be higher resolution than this
old Canon, he refuses to part with it and does everything he can to
avoid buying all-in-one printers which might make his scanner obsolete.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Paul]

It seems like this scanner is important to him. And it's the lack of
driver for this scanner that has him most frustrated. I don't know why
but for some reason people are really attached to their scanners,
especially Canon ones. I have a friend who is like this too. He has a
Canon scanner, and even though I've told him to just simply dump it for
a $99 printer/scanner which will likely be higher resolution than this
old Canon, he refuses to part with it and does everything he can to
avoid buying all-in-one printers which might make his scanner obsolete.

Yousuf Khan

I have a scanner which cost $1500 new.

My solution ?

The computer that drove it originally, still drives it. A "package deal".
That is virtually all that computer does. It isn't fast enough for
other work.

As long as there is a way to get files off that computer, it works great.
I was using the scanner several days ago, and used a USB stick for the
file transfer.

All it wastes is... space.

Paul