BOOTMGR not found

[Stan Brown]

Computer: Dell Inspiron 1764 (no Windows disk or Dell recovery disks)
System: 64-bit Windows 7 Home Premium SP1
Full backups on external USB hard drive (Acronis TI2011)
Available: bootable DVD of Acronis TI2011 (full)

The story:

My hard drive crashed, and I thought it would be no problem since I
had a full Acronis backup from the night before. But after a
successful Acronis restore, when I try to boot I get "BOOTMGR is
missing -- Press Ctrl-Alt-Del to restart". No way to get into the
recovery console.

What I've tried:

1. Ubuntu 32-bit boots fine from CD, and qparted says that the C
drive is bootable. I read advice on the Web to put the C partition
right smack at the start of the physical drive, and that's where it
is.

2. Advice on the Web says to do a repair install, which I would do if
I had a Windows disk. A friend has a Dell OEM disk of 32-bit Windows
7 Professional, but it declines to do the repair because it says the
Windows versions don't match. It *did* install successfully (putting
my 64-bit Windows as Windows Old), and 32-bit Win 7 Pro seems to run,
but Dell's site won't let me download 32-bit drivers because my
service tag is for a system with 64-bit Windows installed. And I
really don't think I can live with VGA screen resolution and no
touchpad driver.

3. I then re-recovered my 64-bit Win 7 Home Premium, but apparently
the 32-bit Windows 7 install didn't create a boot record because when
I try to boot the recovered hard drive I again get "BOOTMGR is
missing".

4. In Acronis, when I browse to my backup of C, it gives me the
option to recover either or both of the C partition and the "MBR and
track 0". I checked both and Acronis said it was successful, but the
hard drive wouldn't boot. I then tried restoring *only* "MBR and
track 0", and again got the success message, but booting from hard
drive again gave "BOOTMGR is missing".

Questions:

(a) Should C maybe *not* be right at the start of the hard drive?
Maybe if there was some empty space before the first partition,
Acronis would not just give a success message but actually restore
the MBR? If so, how much empty space should I have?

(b) Any way to use an Ubuntu bootable disk to create a proper MBR
that Windows will accept? I'd rather not install Ubuntu in a
separate partition, because I like running it in a virtual machine
under Windrows, but if that's what it takes to get Windows working
I'm willing to do it.

(c) Howtogeek.com recommends buying a Windows repair disk from

http://neosmart.net/blog/2008/download-windows-vista-x64-recovery-
disc/

Has anyone done this? I'm a little leery because of the possibility
of malware, and also I wonder if it's legal. I hold no brief for
Microsoft, but I don't want to buy pirate software. I'd be annoyed,
too, if I laid out $9.75 and it didn't work.

(d) Other suggestions? Surely someone before this has restored a
Windows system successfully from an Acronis backup. (As I write
these words I realize that I haven't yet posted to an Acronis forum.
I guess that's my next step, but I'll bet someone here in the Win 7
newsgroup has the requisite knowledge.)

 

[John Aldred]

Stan Brown wrote:

[Snip]

(d) Other suggestions? Surely someone before this has restored a
Windows system successfully from an Acronis backup. (As I write
these words I realize that I haven't yet posted to an Acronis forum.
I guess that's my next step, but I'll bet someone here in the Win 7
newsgroup has the requisite knowledge.)

Yes I've done this several times with Windows 7 Home Premium 32 bit.
However on my installations I've always had Windows 7 in a single partition.
I believe that the preferred way is to have a small partition containing the
Windows system (what I would call a boot partition if I was talking about
Linux), and the main C: drive partition for everything else.

I'm guessing that you have made an image of your C: partition using Acronis
instead of the whole drive. Sorry I can't be of any help in resolving your
problem.

 

[Ed Cryer]

Computer: Dell Inspiron 1764 (no Windows disk or Dell recovery disks)
System: 64-bit Windows 7 Home Premium SP1
Full backups on external USB hard drive (Acronis TI2011)
Available: bootable DVD of Acronis TI2011 (full)

The story:

My hard drive crashed, and I thought it would be no problem since I
had a full Acronis backup from the night before. But after a
successful Acronis restore, when I try to boot I get "BOOTMGR is
missing -- Press Ctrl-Alt-Del to restart". No way to get into the
recovery console.

What I've tried:

1. Ubuntu 32-bit boots fine from CD, and qparted says that the C
drive is bootable. I read advice on the Web to put the C partition
right smack at the start of the physical drive, and that's where it
is.

2. Advice on the Web says to do a repair install, which I would do if
I had a Windows disk. A friend has a Dell OEM disk of 32-bit Windows
7 Professional, but it declines to do the repair because it says the
Windows versions don't match. It *did* install successfully (putting
my 64-bit Windows as Windows Old), and 32-bit Win 7 Pro seems to run,
but Dell's site won't let me download 32-bit drivers because my
service tag is for a system with 64-bit Windows installed. And I
really don't think I can live with VGA screen resolution and no
touchpad driver.

3. I then re-recovered my 64-bit Win 7 Home Premium, but apparently
the 32-bit Windows 7 install didn't create a boot record because when
I try to boot the recovered hard drive I again get "BOOTMGR is
missing".

4. In Acronis, when I browse to my backup of C, it gives me the
option to recover either or both of the C partition and the "MBR and
track 0". I checked both and Acronis said it was successful, but the
hard drive wouldn't boot. I then tried restoring *only* "MBR and
track 0", and again got the success message, but booting from hard
drive again gave "BOOTMGR is missing".

Questions:

(a) Should C maybe *not* be right at the start of the hard drive?
Maybe if there was some empty space before the first partition,
Acronis would not just give a success message but actually restore
the MBR? If so, how much empty space should I have?

(b) Any way to use an Ubuntu bootable disk to create a proper MBR
that Windows will accept? I'd rather not install Ubuntu in a
separate partition, because I like running it in a virtual machine
under Windrows, but if that's what it takes to get Windows working
I'm willing to do it.

(c) Howtogeek.com recommends buying a Windows repair disk from

http://neosmart.net/blog/2008/download-windows-vista-x64-recovery-
disc/

Has anyone done this? I'm a little leery because of the possibility
of malware, and also I wonder if it's legal. I hold no brief for
Microsoft, but I don't want to buy pirate software. I'd be annoyed,
too, if I laid out $9.75 and it didn't work.

(d) Other suggestions? Surely someone before this has restored a
Windows system successfully from an Acronis backup. (As I write
these words I realize that I haven't yet posted to an Acronis forum.
I guess that's my next step, but I'll bet someone here in the Win 7
newsgroup has the requisite knowledge.)

You can get a recovery disk for free in lots of places on the Net.
And yes, I've done a repair of a non-booting Win7 64-bit partition using
one quite successfully.

So then, download an iso file, burn it to disk, boot from it and just
tell it to do its stuff.

Ed

 

[Paul]

Computer: Dell Inspiron 1764 (no Windows disk or Dell recovery disks)
System: 64-bit Windows 7 Home Premium SP1
Full backups on external USB hard drive (Acronis TI2011)
Available: bootable DVD of Acronis TI2011 (full)

The story:

My hard drive crashed, and I thought it would be no problem since I
had a full Acronis backup from the night before. But after a
successful Acronis restore, when I try to boot I get "BOOTMGR is
missing -- Press Ctrl-Alt-Del to restart". No way to get into the
recovery console.

What I've tried:

1. Ubuntu 32-bit boots fine from CD, and qparted says that the C
drive is bootable. I read advice on the Web to put the C partition
right smack at the start of the physical drive, and that's where it
is.

2. Advice on the Web says to do a repair install, which I would do if
I had a Windows disk. A friend has a Dell OEM disk of 32-bit Windows
7 Professional, but it declines to do the repair because it says the
Windows versions don't match. It *did* install successfully (putting
my 64-bit Windows as Windows Old), and 32-bit Win 7 Pro seems to run,
but Dell's site won't let me download 32-bit drivers because my
service tag is for a system with 64-bit Windows installed. And I
really don't think I can live with VGA screen resolution and no
touchpad driver.

3. I then re-recovered my 64-bit Win 7 Home Premium, but apparently
the 32-bit Windows 7 install didn't create a boot record because when
I try to boot the recovered hard drive I again get "BOOTMGR is
missing".

4. In Acronis, when I browse to my backup of C, it gives me the
option to recover either or both of the C partition and the "MBR and
track 0". I checked both and Acronis said it was successful, but the
hard drive wouldn't boot. I then tried restoring *only* "MBR and
track 0", and again got the success message, but booting from hard
drive again gave "BOOTMGR is missing".

Questions:

(a) Should C maybe *not* be right at the start of the hard drive?
Maybe if there was some empty space before the first partition,
Acronis would not just give a success message but actually restore
the MBR? If so, how much empty space should I have?

(b) Any way to use an Ubuntu bootable disk to create a proper MBR
that Windows will accept? I'd rather not install Ubuntu in a
separate partition, because I like running it in a virtual machine
under Windrows, but if that's what it takes to get Windows working
I'm willing to do it.

(c) Howtogeek.com recommends buying a Windows repair disk from

http://neosmart.net/blog/2008/download-windows-vista-x64-recovery-
disc/

Has anyone done this? I'm a little leery because of the possibility
of malware, and also I wonder if it's legal. I hold no brief for
Microsoft, but I don't want to buy pirate software. I'd be annoyed,
too, if I laid out $9.75 and it didn't work.

(d) Other suggestions? Surely someone before this has restored a
Windows system successfully from an Acronis backup. (As I write
these words I realize that I haven't yet posted to an Acronis forum.
I guess that's my next step, but I'll bet someone here in the Win 7
newsgroup has the requisite knowledge.)

Your computer should have prompted you, to make an approximately
200MB CDROM disc when you got the machine. That way, you don't have
to buy one from neosmart.net . The prompt for that, actually comes
from Microsoft, while the suggestion to burn backup media would come
from Dell. On my Acer laptop, on the second day of usage, I got a
prompt to burn the 200MB recovery CD, which I did. That one offers
this menu, where "startup repair" is an option. That repair option is intended
to fix booting issues (not restore files to factory state, which would
take a DVD or more). Like you, I don't have an installer disc to boot
to this prompt, and the 200MB recovery CD does this instead.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/What-are-the-system-recovery-options-in-Windows-7

When I actually tested that here, had a non-booting Windows 7, it
didn't work! I actually had to restore from a recent backup, to get
back running again. Which is what you'd expect, from "automation"...

At one time, neosmart.net listed a BitTorrent link to the file. Microsoft
made them take that link off their web page, which is why they've
resorted to "selling" the disc instead. Have a look here <wink> <nudge>.
The downloaded files are pointers to the images "out in space". Fetching
one of the two here, was the first and only time I tried a torrent. I
may have run Torrent software in Linux, to complete the operation, don't
remember the details (suffice to say, it was a throw away environment).
One irritation here, is comparing the MD5sum of these, to "real" images,
doesn't match. It may be the version of system they created those from
in the first place, that has something to do with it. I don't think the
images are tainted. But in an emergency, where you forgot to make the
real mccoy, these might be your only choice (to using the "restore to factory"
option on the laptop hard drive). As far as I know, the Torrent you
get today from using the pointers here, should be the same as when I
was playing with them.

http://web.archive.org/web/20091224...net/blog/2009/windows-7-system-repair-discs/?

You're supposed to be able to boot an installer DVD, and run the same
"startup repair" option from there. But I don't know what amount
of "matching" is required, between the DVD type, and the installed
system. Links have been posted before, pointing to readily available
gigabyte sized download images of Windows 7 (coming from actual sources
like digitalriver). The only problem with those is, the version doesn't
*exactly* match what was used to make the laptop (they'd be retail
versions not unbranded OEM). Whether that would affect the boot repair
option, I can't say.

Someone also posted this the other day, but I don't know how practical
this is, and what subset of problems it solves. The Microsoft solution
would be my first choice, while this might be something I'd try, if there
was some kind of evidence it was all that was needed.

http://neosmart.net/wiki/display/EBCD/Recovering+the+Vista+Bootloader+with+EasyBCD

I just wish Microsoft had made that recovery CD a 200MB ISO9660 file, stored
somewhere on C:, so we'd have a way to fetch and burn a copy for people
who didn't make a copy on day one. I don't think it is stored that way,
and when the Microsoft tool burns a copy, it prepares the image
on the fly. I don't think it's stored in a way that is easy to get at.
(That's probably so it can incorporate any patches along the way, like
maybe after SP1 is installed, the recovery CD would be different ?)

If and when you get that 200MB CD, inside it you'll find a fairly small
set of files. One of the files will be quite large, and end in .wim .
If you have a copy of 7ZIP, you can "look inside" that .wim file, to see the
actual files in the recovery environment. (In fact, you can use 7ZIP to probe
the entire ISO9660 file, before you even burn it to a CD.) Some of the
directories are empty (structure), while at least one has files (content).
And somehow, they are used to build something to boot with at runtime,
likely partially stored in RAM. Linux has schemes like this as well, such as
squashfs.

So you don't have to pay $9.95. There are ways <wink> <nudge>. In
fact there are so many ways, it's hard to test them all.

HTH and good luck,

Paul

 

[Howard]

Does C: boot from anything. Maybe the disk is damaged. An Acronis
restore should get things working again.

 

[Ed Cryer]

Your computer should have prompted you, to make an approximately
200MB CDROM disc when you got the machine. That way, you don't have
to buy one from neosmart.net . The prompt for that, actually comes
from Microsoft, while the suggestion to burn backup media would come
from Dell. On my Acer laptop, on the second day of usage, I got a
prompt to burn the 200MB recovery CD, which I did. That one offers
this menu, where "startup repair" is an option. That repair option is
intended
to fix booting issues (not restore files to factory state, which would
take a DVD or more). Like you, I don't have an installer disc to boot
to this prompt, and the 200MB recovery CD does this instead.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/What-are-the-system-recovery-options-in-Windows-7


When I actually tested that here, had a non-booting Windows 7, it
didn't work! I actually had to restore from a recent backup, to get
back running again. Which is what you'd expect, from "automation"...

At one time, neosmart.net listed a BitTorrent link to the file. Microsoft
made them take that link off their web page, which is why they've
resorted to "selling" the disc instead. Have a look here <wink> <nudge>.
The downloaded files are pointers to the images "out in space". Fetching
one of the two here, was the first and only time I tried a torrent. I
may have run Torrent software in Linux, to complete the operation, don't
remember the details (suffice to say, it was a throw away environment).
One irritation here, is comparing the MD5sum of these, to "real" images,
doesn't match. It may be the version of system they created those from
in the first place, that has something to do with it. I don't think the
images are tainted. But in an emergency, where you forgot to make the
real mccoy, these might be your only choice (to using the "restore to
factory"
option on the laptop hard drive). As far as I know, the Torrent you
get today from using the pointers here, should be the same as when I
was playing with them.

http://web.archive.org/web/20091224...net/blog/2009/windows-7-system-repair-discs/?


You're supposed to be able to boot an installer DVD, and run the same
"startup repair" option from there. But I don't know what amount
of "matching" is required, between the DVD type, and the installed
system. Links have been posted before, pointing to readily available
gigabyte sized download images of Windows 7 (coming from actual sources
like digitalriver). The only problem with those is, the version doesn't
*exactly* match what was used to make the laptop (they'd be retail
versions not unbranded OEM). Whether that would affect the boot repair
option, I can't say.

Someone also posted this the other day, but I don't know how practical
this is, and what subset of problems it solves. The Microsoft solution
would be my first choice, while this might be something I'd try, if there
was some kind of evidence it was all that was needed.

http://neosmart.net/wiki/display/EBCD/Recovering+the+Vista+Bootloader+with+EasyBCD


I just wish Microsoft had made that recovery CD a 200MB ISO9660 file,
stored
somewhere on C:, so we'd have a way to fetch and burn a copy for people
who didn't make a copy on day one. I don't think it is stored that way,
and when the Microsoft tool burns a copy, it prepares the image
on the fly. I don't think it's stored in a way that is easy to get at.
(That's probably so it can incorporate any patches along the way, like
maybe after SP1 is installed, the recovery CD would be different ?)

If and when you get that 200MB CD, inside it you'll find a fairly small
set of files. One of the files will be quite large, and end in .wim .
If you have a copy of 7ZIP, you can "look inside" that .wim file, to see
the
actual files in the recovery environment. (In fact, you can use 7ZIP to
probe
the entire ISO9660 file, before you even burn it to a CD.) Some of the
directories are empty (structure), while at least one has files (content).
And somehow, they are used to build something to boot with at runtime,
likely partially stored in RAM. Linux has schemes like this as well,
such as
squashfs.

So you don't have to pay $9.95. There are ways <wink> <nudge>. In
fact there are so many ways, it's hard to test them all.

HTH and good luck,

Paul

I should think a Win7 System Repair disk would be even easier to borrow
than an Installation disk. Both will help the OP here.
When MS offer you a free Win7 Installation disk for downloading it seems
utter cheek for anybody to charge for a Repair one.
And you can get both quite legally (and free) on the Net. There's no
"wink wink" about it at all; just simply knowing where to call.
Try this one, for instance. Follow the links on the page (one for
32-bit, one for 64-bit) and wait about 50 seconds on the target page.
http://lair360.co.uk/blog/1053/windows-7-repair-disk-iso-file/

Ed

 

[Paul]

I should think a Win7 System Repair disk would be even easier to borrow
than an Installation disk. Both will help the OP here.
When MS offer you a free Win7 Installation disk for downloading it seems
utter cheek for anybody to charge for a Repair one.
And you can get both quite legally (and free) on the Net. There's no
"wink wink" about it at all; just simply knowing where to call.
Try this one, for instance. Follow the links on the page (one for
32-bit, one for 64-bit) and wait about 50 seconds on the target page.
http://lair360.co.uk/blog/1053/windows-7-repair-disk-iso-file/

Ed

Rather than get into an argument about which file is the best, we can go
about this another way.

1) Back up the computer, as it currently stands, to some external device.
We're going to put it back eventually, so an image is required. If the
OP needs a recipe, the backup solution is going to depend to some
extent, on the size of the system disk, and what backup disks are
available. Perhaps the existing backup is good enough, as we know
things are already broken, and can use that image to restore again.

2) Since this is a royalty OEM install, with no DVDs, use the built-in
"return to factory capability". This will wipe everything, but that's
why we made the backup. The user manual that came in the box, should
describe the function key to press, to get to that early menu and
restore to factory. If this process fails to work, then the OP will need
to go to the manufacturer and get the DVD set for restoration. or,
if a set of reinstallation DVDs were burned, those could be used.

3) Once a pristine Windows 7 is running again, go to the appropriate place
in the interface, and request the burning of the recovery CD.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/Create-a-system-repair-disc

4) Restore the system using the content backed up in step 1.

5) Boot the system with the newly obtained ~200MB recovery CD.
Select the "repair" option, and cross fingers.

Materials required - a backup disk big enough for the job,
plus a blank CD.

HTH,
Paul

 

[Ed Cryer]

Rather than get into an argument about which file is the best, we can go
about this another way.

1) Back up the computer, as it currently stands, to some external device.
We're going to put it back eventually, so an image is required. If the
OP needs a recipe, the backup solution is going to depend to some
extent, on the size of the system disk, and what backup disks are
available. Perhaps the existing backup is good enough, as we know
things are already broken, and can use that image to restore again.

2) Since this is a royalty OEM install, with no DVDs, use the built-in
"return to factory capability". This will wipe everything, but that's
why we made the backup. The user manual that came in the box, should
describe the function key to press, to get to that early menu and
restore to factory. If this process fails to work, then the OP will need
to go to the manufacturer and get the DVD set for restoration. or,
if a set of reinstallation DVDs were burned, those could be used.

3) Once a pristine Windows 7 is running again, go to the appropriate place
in the interface, and request the burning of the recovery CD.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/Create-a-system-repair-disc

4) Restore the system using the content backed up in step 1.

5) Boot the system with the newly obtained ~200MB recovery CD.
Select the "repair" option, and cross fingers.

Materials required - a backup disk big enough for the job,
plus a blank CD.

HTH,
Paul

Yes, I won't argue with that.
You and I have been through all this together during my recent battle
with Win8. We scored a 100% success with that, and I can't begin to tell
you all the good it did me. I feel I could take on almost any system
problem going and win out with a bit of stoic perseverance.

There are two issues from this as I see it;
1. The pragmatic job of recovery.
2. Finding out why it happened.

If the OP just booted with MS Repair option, and it worked, then some
people could just sleep easy with that, and get on with their life.
Me, it'd bug me until I found out what had corrupted the boot files.
(And that's why I call the battle with Win8 "100% success"; because we
solved both those questions in toto.)

He says he had an Acronis system image, and he restored from image >>>
boot manager missing.
I'm wondering, though, if he did actually put a new hd in. He doesn't
say specifically. That could be a reason for his current problem.
Also he says he can't get into the recovery console, but he doesn't say
whether he's tried hitting the F8 key which is the usual method; and you
have to hit it a couple of times per second to ensure that it gets
picked up by a system that has the wait-time set to minimum.

Ed

 

[Char Jackson]

There are two issues from this as I see it;
1. The pragmatic job of recovery.
2. Finding out why it happened.

If the OP just booted with MS Repair option, and it worked, then some
people could just sleep easy with that, and get on with their life.
Me, it'd bug me until I found out what had corrupted the boot files.
(And that's why I call the battle with Win8 "100% success"; because we
solved both those questions in toto.)

He says he had an Acronis system image, and he restored from image >>>
boot manager missing.

My Acronis backups are always disk images, but there's also the
option, (and I believe it's the default), to create a partition image.
It seems to me that a partition image wouldn't necessarily include the
boot files and/or boot sector, right?

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

My Acronis backups are always disk images, but there's also the
option, (and I believe it's the default), to create a partition image.
It seems to me that a partition image wouldn't necessarily include the
boot files and/or boot sector, right?

That's the impression I get with similar choices in Macrium.

In fact, it's pretty clear in the progress screen and later in the log
file. If I choose partition, only the C: partition is written. If I
choose disk, the unlabeled 100MB partition is also copied. That's the
boot partition (or is it the system partition?).

Macrium's interface is pretty strange & obscure in the new version 5.x,
but I managed to puzzle it out enough to make those choices and to see
the above behavior.

 

[R. C. White]

Hi, Gene.

If I choose partition, only the C: partition is written. If I choose disk,
the unlabeled 100MB partition is also copied. That's the boot partition
(or is it the system partition?).

Just remember: We BOOT from the SYSTEM partition and keep all those
gigabytes of operating SYSTEM files in the BOOT volume.

No way we can fit all the OS files into 100 MB. That small partition - when
it exists - is the System Partition.

The \Windows folder tree is the "Boot Folder" - not to be confused with the
\Boot folder, a Hidden and System folder in the Root of the System
Partition. The Boot Volume (it might be a logical drive, rather than a
primary partition) holds the Boot Folder; the System Partition holds the
\Boot folder. By default, the Boot Volume is assigned drive letter C:; also
by default, the 100 MB System Partition is not assigned a drive letter at
all. Both of these defaults can be overridden, depending on HOW Win7 is
installed (pre-installed by OEM, or clean installed on a virgin HDD by
booting from a Win7 installation DVD, or added to a computer that already
has a System Partition, such as a multi-boot system - and other possible
situations).

Confused yet? :>{

But, for the typical off-the-shelf computer with Win7 pre-installed, the 100
MB System Partition will exist, it will be the first partition, and it will
have no drive letter; the second partition will be Drive C: and will be the
Boot Volume.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2011 (Build 15.4.3538.0513) in Win7 Ultimate x64 SP1


"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message

My Acronis backups are always disk images, but there's also the
option, (and I believe it's the default), to create a partition image.
It seems to me that a partition image wouldn't necessarily include the
boot files and/or boot sector, right?

That's the impression I get with similar choices in Macrium.

In fact, it's pretty clear in the progress screen and later in the log
file. If I choose partition, only the C: partition is written. If I
choose disk, the unlabeled 100MB partition is also copied. That's the
boot partition (or is it the system partition?).

Macrium's interface is pretty strange & obscure in the new version 5.x,
but I managed to puzzle it out enough to make those choices and to see
the above behavior.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Hi, Gene.

It looks below like you missed my attempt at humor.

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <[email protected]>, Paul <[email protected]>
writes:
[]

Your computer should have prompted you, to make an approximately
200MB CDROM disc when you got the machine. That way, you don't have
to buy one from neosmart.net . The prompt for that, actually comes
from Microsoft, while the suggestion to burn backup media would come
from Dell. On my Acer laptop, on the second day of usage, I got a
prompt to burn the 200MB recovery CD, which I did. That one offers

Do you still get this prompt on machines that don't have an optical
drive?
[]

I just wish Microsoft had made that recovery CD a 200MB ISO9660 file, stored
somewhere on C:, so we'd have a way to fetch and burn a copy for people
who didn't make a copy on day one. I don't think it is stored that way,
and when the Microsoft tool burns a copy, it prepares the image
on the fly. I don't think it's stored in a way that is easy to get at.
(That's probably so it can incorporate any patches along the way, like
maybe after SP1 is installed, the recovery CD would be different ?)

[]
Or to stop the file being copied quite as easily, though it would be
nice to think yours is the reason.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

a little bit of me still feels that some southerners think we northerners are
issued at birth with doomed kestrels. - Alison Graham, Radio Times,
3-9/11/2007.

 

[Stan Brown]

Many thanks to those who responded.

Following the hints, I did find a non-torrent download of a Win 7 64-
bit recovery disk. But although the Web site looked legitimate, I
tend to be paranoid about things like that, so I ended up asking at
work and the IT guy lent me a Win 7 Enterprise 64-bit installer. I
booted from it, *didn't* install it of course but used it to repair
the Win 7 Home Premium that I had restored from backup. That took
under a minute, and then my Windows booted successfully from hard
drive again.

That was Monday, 31 October. Since then I've been testing various
things, updating virus definitions, redoing backups, etc. Since my
computer was down for five weeks, I figured there would be a ton of
pending Windows updates. Windows Update failed repeatedly yesterday,
and the error code explanation clearly didn't apply to my situation.
But when I tried again tonight it worked -- or at least it found
updates; I'm not downloading them till I've finished reading Usenet.
So I think I'm fully operational, and what a relief.

Thanks again to those who offered advice and encouragement.

And advice to everyone:

(1) back up completely and often. I'd fallen into the habit of
backing up some data daily but most only weekly, so I was very lucky
that when my hard drive failed it was about an hour's usage after my
latest backup.

(2) keep everything that you need every day on a USB stick that you
synchronize to your computer. If I hadn't had all my account
passwords, my bank records, my gradebook, and such on the USB stick,
I'd have been in deep doo-doo. As it was, it was inconvenient but I
could still get most things done.

 

[Stan Brown]

Your computer should have prompted you, to make an approximately
200MB CDROM disc when you got the machine. That way, you don't have
to buy one from neosmart.net . The prompt for that, actually comes
from Microsoft, while the suggestion to burn backup media would come
from Dell.

Dell's Web page says (paraphrased), "We listen! We know you don't
like keeping track of disks, so we don't ship them with Dell
computers. Instead, there's a recovery partition on your hard drive.
Of course, you should back up that recovery partition to DVD." It's
funny, in a sick way.

You're supposed to be able to boot an installer DVD, and run the same
"startup repair" option from there. But I don't know what amount
of "matching" is required,

Apparently all that matters is the "bitness". A 32-bit Win 7 Pro
said it was a mismatch, but a 64-bit Win 7 Enterprise did the job on
my Win 7 Home Premium installation.

I just wish Microsoft had made that recovery CD a 200MB ISO9660
file, stored
somewhere on C:, so we'd have a way to fetch and burn a copy for people
who didn't make a copy on day one. I don't think it is stored that way,
and when the Microsoft tool burns a copy, it prepares the image
on the fly. I don't think it's stored in a way that is easy to get at.
(That's probably so it can incorporate any patches along the way, like
maybe after SP1 is installed, the recovery CD would be different ?)

Hmmm -- I'd better make that recovery CD tonight, right after I
install the 14 waiting updates.

 

[Stan Brown]

My Acronis backups are always disk images, but there's also the
option, (and I believe it's the default), to create a partition image.
It seems to me that a partition image wouldn't necessarily include the
boot files and/or boot sector, right?

Hmm -- I find it difficult to understand the terminology of the
choices in Acronis. I've been doing disk backups, but when I select
that option I then get a list of the partitions with checkboxes. I'm
pretty sure there isn't one for any kind of boot sector or MBR. I'll
check later tonight when I do a differential backup.

 

[Stan Brown]

Just remember: We BOOT from the SYSTEM partition and keep all those
gigabytes of operating SYSTEM files in the BOOT volume.

No way we can fit all the OS files into 100 MB. That small partition - when
it exists - is the System Partition.

The \Windows folder tree is the "Boot Folder" - not to be confused with the
\Boot folder, a Hidden and System folder in the Root of the System
Partition. The Boot Volume (it might be a logical drive, rather than a
primary partition) holds the Boot Folder; the System Partition holds the
\Boot folder. By default, the Boot Volume is assigned drive letter C:; also
by default, the 100 MB System Partition is not assigned a drive letter at
all. Both of these defaults can be overridden, depending on HOW Win7 is
installed (pre-installed by OEM, or clean installed on a virgin HDD by
booting from a Win7 installation DVD, or added to a computer that already
has a System Partition, such as a multi-boot system - and other possible

Thanks for that explanation. I think my issue is that I didn't have
a 100 MB System partition. I'm not sure why my restored C: wouldn't
boot without it, but then the Windows install disk's "repair"
operation was able to make it bootable without creating a 100 MB
System partition. (Yes, I did check when I got BOOTMGR not found,
and my C: was the primary partition and was marked as bootable.)

 

[Char Jackson]

Hmm -- I find it difficult to understand the terminology of the
choices in Acronis. I've been doing disk backups, but when I select
that option I then get a list of the partitions with checkboxes. I'm
pretty sure there isn't one for any kind of boot sector or MBR. I'll
check later tonight when I do a differential backup.

When I fire up Acronis True Image Home 2011 and select the first
choice on the main screen, "Disk and Partition Backup", the next
screen defaults to showing each of my 5 partitions, one per physical
disk. Logical drive C is selected by default. In the upper right,
there's a 'link' that says "Switch to Disk Mode", and on that screen
it lists my 5 physical hard drives by their model number, with the
first drive selected by default. In Disk mode, there is no information
about partitions that may or may not be on that drive.

If you're seeing a list of partitions, I think it means you're in
Partition mode. Try switching to Disk mode to see the differences.

I could be wrong, but it makes sense to me that if you have multiple
partitions on your first drive, the drive that contains your C:
partition, and you only back up the C: partition, you might not be
getting the boot files that you need. In my case, there's only one
partition per drive, but I always choose the Drive option and my
backups have always worked to restore a fully booting system.

 

[Paul]

Thanks for that explanation. I think my issue is that I didn't have
a 100 MB System partition. I'm not sure why my restored C: wouldn't
boot without it, but then the Windows install disk's "repair"
operation was able to make it bootable without creating a 100 MB
System partition. (Yes, I did check when I got BOOTMGR not found,
and my C: was the primary partition and was marked as bootable.)

So the repair thing, probably has to support both options. The
dual partition "SYSTEM RESERVED" like my laptop uses. And the single
partition installation some retail DVD users (buy DVD and install themselves)
might opt for. Depending on which partitions are found, the repair utility
has to deal with what it finds.

I read somewhere (maybe this news group), that the intention of the
two partition scheme, had something to do with supporting disk encryption.
And that the single partition install, might be a problem for something
like Bitlocker.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitlocker

"In order for BitLocker to operate, the hard disk requires at least
two NTFS-formatted volumes: one for the operating system (usually C
and another with a minimum size of 100 MB[12] from which the operating
system boots. BitLocker requires the boot volume to remain
unencrypted - on Windows Vista this volume must be assigned a drive letter,
while on Windows 7 it does not."

Paul

 

[R. C. White]

Hi, Stan.

I think my issue is that I didn't have a 100 MB System partition.

No. There MUST BE a System Partition. But it does NOT have to be ONLY a
System Partition.

In fact, the most typical arrangement - until Win7, at least - was to have
everything in a single partition. Win7 is the first Windows to have that
100 MB partition - but even now, it does not get created in some situations.
So long as bootmgr and the \Boot folder (BCD) exist on the System Partition,
it does not matter if that System Partition is 100 MB or 100 GB; or whether
it is the first partition, the middle one or the last one on that disk; or
whether it has been assigned a drive letter or not; or whether that
partition is also the Boot Volume, holding the Boot Folder (\Windows, not
\Boot) for Win7 or WinXP or some other Windows installation.

My only computer (except for a seldom-used netbook) is a desktop that I
assembled from mobo/CPU/RAM and other parts. It has 4 physical hard disks;
the last two (Disks 2 and 3) are a mirrored pair so Windows sees them as a
single unit, except in Disk Management. Over decades of computing my system
has "just growed", like Topsy, so my drive letters and organization wouldn't
make sense to anyone else; it barely makes sense to me anymore. But I have
4 Windows installations: my main Win7 x64 on Drive C: (Disk 0, partition
2); Win7 x86 on Drive J: (Disk 1, partition 2); WinXP SP3 on Drive K: (Disk
1, partition 3); and another Win7 x64 (just in case) on Drive G: (the Disk
2&3 mirror, partition 1). There is no 100 MB unlettered partition anywhere
on my disks. Partition 1 on each of the disks is an Active Primary
Partition, and I've run Setup with each of the disks, in turn, set in the
BIOS as the boot device; by doing this, I've created a System Partition on
each disk. By choosing from the BIOS menu at startup, I can choose to boot
from any of these disks. I seldom boot from any disk other than Disk 0 or
into any Windows but Win7 on Drive C:. But I can choose on each reboot.
(Note that all these drive letters shift, depending on which Windows
installation is running; Win7 on the Disk 2&3 mirror thinks it is on Drive
C:.)

While I've heard lots of good things about Acronis, I've never used their
products - or any third-party partition manager since Win2K introduced Disk
Management over a decade ago. (I had used Partition Magic before then.) So
I can't comment on their backup/restore or other features.

All this is not to try to impress anybody with my expertise. I'm still
strictly a non-techie amateur, even after 30+ years of personal computing.
My goal is to try to break the "Drive C: mindset" that has trapped so many
users.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2011 (Build 15.4.3538.0513) in Win7 Ultimate x64 SP1


"Stan Brown" wrote in message

Just remember: We BOOT from the SYSTEM partition and keep all those
gigabytes of operating SYSTEM files in the BOOT volume.

No way we can fit all the OS files into 100 MB. That small partition -
when
it exists - is the System Partition.

The \Windows folder tree is the "Boot Folder" - not to be confused with
the
\Boot folder, a Hidden and System folder in the Root of the System
Partition. The Boot Volume (it might be a logical drive, rather than a
primary partition) holds the Boot Folder; the System Partition holds the
\Boot folder. By default, the Boot Volume is assigned drive letter C:;
also
by default, the 100 MB System Partition is not assigned a drive letter at
all. Both of these defaults can be overridden, depending on HOW Win7 is
installed (pre-installed by OEM, or clean installed on a virgin HDD by
booting from a Win7 installation DVD, or added to a computer that already
has a System Partition, such as a multi-boot system - and other possible

Thanks for that explanation. I think my issue is that I didn't have
a 100 MB System partition. I'm not sure why my restored C: wouldn't
boot without it, but then the Windows install disk's "repair"
operation was able to make it bootable without creating a 100 MB
System partition. (Yes, I did check when I got BOOTMGR not found,
and my C: was the primary partition and was marked as bootable.)