Apple, It's Not A Standard If It Only Works In Your Browser, And On The Mac

[Nibiru2012]

From Paul Thurrott's SuperSite Blog for Windows 6-4-2010

Apple today posted an interesting new HTML 5 and Web Standards section to its web site, a counterpoint of sorts to Microsoft's Internet Explorer 9 Test Drive site (and yet another assault on Adobe Flash). There's just one problem: Unlike the Microsoft effort, Apple's site only works properly in its own Safari web browser, which undercuts the point the company is try to make. Safari, after all, is used by less than 5 percent of web browser users worldwide.

There's another issue here, of course. This site also proves my contention that WebKit is a lie. That is, Apple previously explained that WebKit-based browsers were a de facto standard because this rendering engine is used by both Safari and Google Chrome, and that these browsers represented most of all mobile web traffic. My point is that there is no such thing as a single WebKit because each browser implements different WebKit versions and render web pages differently.

If you access the individual demos from Apple's Safari Dev Center with Chrome, instead of via the main site, you can in fact view them. And when you do, you discover that the experience is a subtly different in each browser. In Windows.

As noted above, this is all very subtle. And none of the example here would impact the functionality of a site. Things are just rendered differently.

Look beyond Windows, however, and the experience is even more different. On the video demo for example, Mac users on Safari get a Mask control while Windows users don't, in any browser. And some demos don't work at all on Safari for Windows. When Microsoft talks about "same markup," this is what they mean. The same HTML code should render identically in each browser. It's not enough to "support" various HTML 5 features. It should look and work the same, everywhere.

The thing that's odd about all this is that I do believe that HTML 5 is the future of the web, and that proprietary technologies like Flash will become less and less necessary as we move forward. But these Apple demos simply prove that that future is still a ways off, and certainly isn't here today.

Posted Jun 04 2010, 03:35 PM by pthurrott

 

[Core]

What a massive fail on Apple's part. So much for grasping the concept of a web standard.

 

[WindowsGeek]

Wow. To me, Safari is about the worst Web browser out there in terms of performance. I can't believe that Apple would try to get a grasp on the market like that, and anyway if a user like me actually wanted to see that demo, they would just uninstall Safari right after that.

 

[catilley1092]

Safari is the sorriest piece of crap of a browser (I'm really restraining my fingers on my keyboard now), I used it for 15 minutes, yes, 15 minutes. Using Safe Search, and was infected with multiple viruses, and the worst thing about it, lost control of my notebook. I could not get MSE, Malwarebytes, or any of my security features to work. Now, I'll admit that I was looking at porn, but I thought this "Safe Search" was supposed to be trusted, and not lead you down a path to destruction. In other words, filter out the bad sites from the good ones.

Ever since this attack happened, my notebook has never ran the same, even after three runs of DBAN (nuking the drive of all that's on it). It constantly overheats and crashes, the disc temp is always at or near the critical point (125 degrees), it usually runs somewhere between 127 and 132 degrees, and something in Windows Explorer is always sending a report. None of this was happening prior to using Safari.

Mr Jobs, thanks a lot for your "superior" product.:thefinger: I hope you understand the meaning of that, you SOB

Cat

 

[Thrax]

Safari is an excellent product on the Mac. Not so much on Windows, but it's ridiculous to conclude that a PC of software could damage or otherwise modify hardware. Drawing that conclusion is akin to saying that a program on television blew up your TV.

 

[catilley1092]

My notebook was running perfectly fine, was folding non-stop for nearly two months, doing anything I wanted it to. Until I took Safari for a spin, everything was running fine. Ever since pulling every cat out of the bag to rid my notebook of viruses, and these weren't just any old viruses, these were the kind that attacks and tries to get you to do a scan with a rouge scanner.

You may stand correct, Safari may work on a Mac well. But it doesn't work well on Windows at all. And that's why they will never be a true contender in the browser market. They load up a pile of trash on your computer, just to install a browser, you would think that you have some protection, but you have nothing.

And it's pure fact that my notebook never ran the same again after that attack through Safari. I've spent countless hours trying to get my notebook running right again, but to no avail. This would never have happened with Firefox, No Script would have stopped whatever hit me right in it's tracks.

But, I decided to try out one of those "HTML 5" browsers, so far, I'm unimpressed. If it comes at the expense of security, I don't need it. And I'll never use Safari again, unless it's on someone else's computer.

Again, a big thanks to the folks at Apple for screwing up my notebook.

 

[Fire cat]

Apple is all about the good looks. You pay for that by money, or by your computer's performance. Apple software on Mac is ok, but you have to pay for the good looks. There's much better for Windows, which may not look as nice, but does the work better!

 

[Mychael]

Being a Mac and PC owner I can say that whilst Safari ran fine on my XP machine that I don't even use it on my Mac as I just don't like the way it works. It's not buggy in the literal sense just not set up the way I like. So even on my Mac I run FF.

 

[Nibiru2012]

Safari is an excellent product on the Mac. Not so much on Windows, but it's ridiculous to conclude that a PC of software could damage or otherwise modify hardware. Drawing that conclusion is akin to saying that a program on television blew up your TV.

Very well stated Thrax!

Although that one time I watched PLAN B FROM OUTER SPACE on my old B&W TV in the '70s something strange happened... and then I had a triangular scar behind my left ear?

 

[WindowsGeek]

Safari is absolutely not the superior browser. About 90 - 95% of the world's computer users are on PCs, the reason people program viruses for the PC. Apple knows this, and doesn't bother much with their OS's security, or that of Safari. If you're going to look at porn, I'd recommend using Sandboxie with Firefox. Sandboxie is here http://sandboxie.com/

 

[bassfisher6522]

My notebook was running perfectly fine, was folding non-stop for nearly two months, doing anything I wanted it to. Until I took Safari for a spin, everything was running fine. Ever since pulling every cat out of the bag to rid my notebook of viruses, and these weren't just any old viruses, these were the kind that attacks and tries to get you to do a scan with a rouge scanner.

You may stand correct, Safari may work on a Mac well. But it doesn't work well on Windows at all. And that's why they will never be a true contender in the browser market. They load up a pile of trash on your computer, just to install a browser, you would think that you have some protection, but you have nothing.

And it's pure fact that my notebook never ran the same again after that attack through Safari. I've spent countless hours trying to get my notebook running right again, but to no avail. This would never have happened with Firefox, No Script would have stopped whatever hit me right in it's tracks.

But, I decided to try out one of those "HTML 5" browsers, so far, I'm unimpressed. If it comes at the expense of security, I don't need it. And I'll never use Safari again, unless it's on someone else's computer.

Again, a big thanks to the folks at Apple for screwing up my notebook.

Dude, are you sure it's the Safari browser and not the porn sites you visit. Not that there is anything wrong with that....little sienfield for you. I know plenty of people who use IE for a browser and have had the same problems as you described happening to your notebook. Then having to go through and clean up and fix some of these pc's and laptops myself to no avail, to have to do a full clean install of the OS. I had one family members laptop 4 times in a years times because they kept going to the same porn site. I honestly don't think it's the browser as much as it is the sit.

 

[catilley1092]

They are the same sites that I've visited with Firefox for over a year. I read a positive review on Safari, and decided to try it out. It was never my intention for it to be a permanent install.

My notebook has ran fine since I've gotten it, although it's not new, it does run Vista & Windows 7 (32 bit) fine. Or should I say that it did. After all of the nuking to rid my system of all viruses, and reinstalling everything from scratch, it has never ran the same again. It won't even complete a folding job anymore, it overheats so badly. If I run two programs at once, within five minutes, it will crash. My Windows Error Reporting files has reached the 142,278KB on Windows 7 alone, not counting the ones I previously deleted with CCleaner. It's the same on Vista & XP. Every 10-20 minutes, some app crashes, and the error files are piling up. Looking at that number, how many web pages do you think that many errors would cover, if only I could forward them all to a post of it's own?

I realize that this sounds like a rant, but I would not come on here saying things have happened to my notebook on this forum if it were not true. I have many better things to do, rather than make up all of this. If it had happened with my regular browser, I would have no gripe, I put my trust in Firefox to protect me, and if they fail, then a browser change would be in order. But I use No Script, and this will stop this kind of attack.

My point is, this so called "Safe Search" that Safari uses to lure users in. It's not so safe at all, if it were, there would be some warning, some way to break the connection, some way to steer you elsewhere, instead of nothing at all, to even as much as warning you that you're in danger. That's my gripe. The notebook, it's under warranty, it's practically shot at this point, and I'll be refunded for it. It's replaceable. But one thing, Safari will never have a place on another of my computers again. When you advertise something, you're supposed to deliver what you promise, in this case, a browser that has built in safety features, as it's described. They weren't there for me on that night, and that's my point.

 

[TrainableMan]

The moral of this story ...
When you're on Safari, stay away from the bush
:elefant:

 

[Nibiru2012]

Cat - what you're describing that's going on with your notebook sounds like hardware issues to me. Software cannot affect or damage your hardware.

Your RAM may have gone bad, that does happen sometimes. Download the bootable disc ISO of MemTest'86 and burn it to a CD-RW disc or a regular CD. Boot it up and see what the analysis says. I had a client whose computer ran like a top, then the next day it was rebooting, stalling, freeze ups, etc. One stick of the RAM had gone bad out of the two sticks he had.

Also you state your having heat issues, that is a definite sign of dust and dirt buildup inside and that the heatsink, fan blades, and other areas need to be thorough dusted and cleaned up. Notebooks are notorious for accumulating a lot more dust and debris just due to the nature of how they're used.

Since the notebook is several years old maybe the CPU thermal compound needs to be replaced on the CPU heatsink's interface. OEM or factory thermal compounds are vastly inferior to the aftermarket products. OEM thermal compounds age and dry out a lot faster than one would realize. Since your notebook is over 3 years old and you use it a lot, replacing the thermal compound would be an excellent place to start.

It is quite disingenuous to blame a website, browser, or software for the issues you're describing.

If you're running XP on the notebook, sometimes during a new reinstall of XP it wouldn't run quite right. XP was / is notorious for that. I know from personal experience that some XP installs would go perfect and it would run very well. However, every once in a while, the install would appear to go good and then it would just be sluggish and buggy.

Most of us here that own desktop computers, whether we built them or purchased them, have either an annual or semi-annual cleaning and dusting schedule. Depends on the environment the desktop is in. Many of us also will replace the thermal compound on either a yearly or bi-annual basis.

To paraphrase a famous saying: "A clean computer is a happy computer!"

 

[WindowsGeek]

Well Catilley, it might be a problem with the bios. I've had viruses corrupt the bios before, and I've seen it happen to others. Programs would hang and crash, the computers would randomly reboot, power off and on, and programs would randomly close. This would happen no matter what OS was installed, and all RAM checked out fine. Try flashing your bios with a replacement copy, usually found on the manufacturer's site. As for the overheating, follow Nibiru's words and make sure your notebook is nice and squeaky clean

By the way your computer's manufacturer should provide all of the service docs on their site, should you need help with cleaning/thermal paste replacement. I'd recommend Arctic Silver 5 or 7 for the new compound.

 

[catilley1092]

Thanks for all of the advice here. I had a memory problem, according to the built in mem 86 test on the Linux Mint boot screen. I exchanged it with a known good stick, everything worked well, except the overheating issue.

I was checking out what I thought to be a bad RAM stick, I noticed upon changing the stick, my hands got very dirty, like I had been working on an car, so I took a second look at what I thought was a bad RAM stick. It looked as if the person who installed the RAM done brake jobs, too, it had black dust on it, and the connection (the golden part) was dirty, too. So I took plain alcohol (like I clean my glasses with) and cleaned the stick really good, especially the connector. Then I cleaned the RAM slot within the notebook itself, it was dirty too.

An hour later, after making sure everything was dry, I plugged the original back in, there was a message that the amount of RAM had changed, I hit F1, the computer started, I did another MEM 86 test, guess what? It passed!

This notebook was a "Dell Factory Recertified" one, how in the hell can a Dell technician do work like this? Computers are supposed to be assembled & serviced in a near medically clean environment, with clean tools (and hands).

No joke, I bought this notebook from Dell Financial Services, on eBay through a broker who sells recertified and refurbished computers on behalf of Dell. Dell Financial Services also sells newer ones on eBay direct, without a broker. Regardless of who sold it, the computers are repaired and repackaged in the same plant, and are employees of Dell. This whole screwjob was discussed in a recent thread on this forum. As it turns out, it looks like I'm another "victim" of Dell's underhanded work. Tomorrow, they will be getting a call from me, and believe me, I will get results one way or the other.

Oh, and did I tell you what else I found? I keep getting an error from Acronis Drive monitor (ntfs 55). I did a Bing search on this error code, turns out it's a drive problem, which can explain the heat issue. Yes, I've "nuked" the drive several times, but it's not like hanging it from a tree limb, and firing shots at it. All that I'm doing is overwriting the data on it, the same as we do when using the drive, writing data on it. You actually overwrite data on your drive every time you use a computer, the only difference here is the whole drive is simply overwritten, with a random pattern of letters & numbers. You're not "nuking" or destroying anything, except what's written on it.

So here we go again, a dirty RAM stick, a bad drive. Dell's personal signature on their work, as always. What else can you expect from a company who sells counterfeit liquid in their MOBO's, then tries to cover it up by reinstalling another of the same MOBO's on their customers computers, and saying "everything's alright", not to worry. They have lost a longtime customer in me, and believe me, I'll spread the word. I've already talked my mother-in-law out of buying another one, and her story is an interesting one as well. RAM chips are supposed to be installed in even pairs, but she had 768MB of RAM from the factory (512 + 256MB together). Where is the work ethic of this company? Common sense tells you better than this, RAM is supposed to be even, for example, 512MB x2, not the above deal.

Since her computer was bought new, she's suing for damages, and enough cash for another computer (of her choice, not Dell's). Her computer failed the same MEM 86 test that mine did, I looked at her RAM sticks, one came from China, one from Korea. What a matched set!

Cat

 

[TrainableMan]

Nowadays running memory in pairs is usually only necessary when the MOBO benefits from Dual Channel, but matched pairs make it easier on the memory controller.